Spin Dashes and SDCombos

[Dragonbreath]

I've been thinking about the spin dashes lately, specifically the combos within them. (When I say spin dashes, I'm referring to both of them.) Izzy once said that Sonic's specials aren't exactly special. Well, they're certainly not spamable projectiles or teh pee-kay phiur. But I don't think we've fully tapped their potential yet. For example, someone discovered invincibility frames at the start of the side-b, and a way to increase horizontal momentum via spinshotting. Nevertheless, I don't think we know exactly how to use the simplest functions of the spin dashes: The combos.

So lets start by looking at them basically: They're chargeable attacks that rush toward the enemy at high speed with (seemingly) low priority. You can jump during them to deal an extra hit, which sets you up nicely for an aerial attack. That's the basic.

Now, the complex. Which aerial should you use in which scenario? How soon should you jump? Which combos work at which percent on which weight with which Spin Dash? Should you even follow up with an aerial at all? That last bit's a legitimate question; The jump hit seems to have as much knockback as a homing attack.

Sonic is a character that requires much skill to use. This thread is primarily meant to provide a place to determine which Spin Dash combos work best on which characters at which percents. Hopefully, we can apply that knowledge to high level play and raise Sonic's tier a notch or two.

If this thread gets popular, I'll start making an itemized list of SDcombos for different characters. I'll be doing some testing myself, but there's a lot of variables inside Sonic's two specials, so please, don't be shy.

 

[Dragonbreath]

(Reserved for a combo list.)

 

[Boxob]

I almost never use spincharge. As true to the games as it may be, the only time I ever really use it is at mid percents(let's say maybe like 50-80) in a Nair. But really I don't even think to do it by the time they're past that percent range. It also has less priority then the spin dash. AND the spindash can be done from the running animation, which confuses people because of how instant the stop is. The spinshot sets up for almost anything. Fair, Uair, Bair.

But then again, I don't really use spincharge enough to give it a good word. Perhaps talk to Puffball about it.

 

[Tenki]

haha nice, I was thinking of making a SD/SDC discussion thread like this.

More recently, when I was able to connect to my network with my Wii and use Wifi, I've been messing around with what I call the 'shuttle loop' movement:

SD [hit optional] > SDJ [hit]> dj backwards [spam jump button, so you have the chance of getting a footstool in]> (midair) down b

Originally, I only did it to be funny because it looked like I was traveling on an invisible shuttle loop lol. But I found out that people really fall for it online ._.;

CaliburChamp did something similar, except with grounded down B at the end, so according to him, he was able to keeping going around and doing footstools on people.

The FSJ should be done after the SDJ's hit, so it's done in midair and knocks them down.

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I had problems going into SDC's (there's another thread on the 2nd page), since it looked like I couldn't combo into anything.

SD [hit]>SDJ [hit]> aerial seems to work at lower %'s, but at higher %'s, the SDJ knocks people away, so you want to do immediate aerials then.

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In the Finishing Moves thread, I've got a few SDC's there:
[]'s are places where they can dodge/DI/attack, so it's not a true combo, just a juggle.


40-70% (on middleweights - adjust for heavier/lighter people)
SD [hit]> SDJ+ u-air> [] double jump + u-air > [] spring + u-air


at around 110%, you have:
SD [hit]> SDJ+ u-air> [] spring > b/u-air

I've got a few that start off with:
Side B hop> u-air > spring, but that's not exactly part of the SDC.
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More recently, I've been messing around with damager moves instead of finisher moves.

Still working on some crazy chain along the lines of:

THE SONIC SPINDASH MONSTER COMBO D:
SD > SDJ > aerial attack > aerial side B > aerial > double jump/spring > aerial

If someone can figure out the best choices there [whether to hit with SDJ, use the 1st aerial] - all the practical variations to do with each step in the move, we might have something scary with Sonic.

 

[FrostByte]

Best to use Spindash at low %, which leads into an uair or fair. Spin charge combos at low % will probably only give you the first hit of the uair only or a few hits on the fair. Spin charge (both hits) leads to a fair or uair at mid %, Fair for damage and uair to set up for KOs. I think the fair combo does about 24-28% fully charged.

You can spin charge (one hit) to bair at high %, it can really mess up peoples' DI.

Short hop spin charge while moving is good stuff too, I've been using it a lot to mess up shields and just to cause confusion in general.

 

[Tenki]

Spindash monster combo doesn't work so well. It's sooo DI dependant.
atm what I have is:
SD[hit]> U-air > aerial side-B [hit] > dj+U-air > Homing Attack > (spring)+d-air (depends on if HA hits or not)

fail.

On a brighter note that's unrelated, aerial down-B's are cool. They look like homing attacks if you only do a low charge.
[edit: 5/19]
But if you do a high charge, you can pull the full 10% damage just like a grounded fully charged SD! Also, it bounces them upward just like a side-B hop.

>_> I knew about the similarity between side B hop and aerial SD, but I didn't know about the damage part. Definitely adding more of that into my game ._.;

 

[NorthernGun]

Hey all; this'll be my first post on these boards, though I've been reading'em for a while. My 2 cents on the spin dash vs. spin charge and which combo to use is... where are you on the stage? I find Sonic is a beast when I get my opponent to the sides of the stage, and with his ridiculous recovery options I can chase almost to death, and still recover. So...

At low percents where I probably won't knock them off of the stage, I almost always do a uair, and then follow into another combo. As much damage as possible to get them into the mid-high %s so that I can use more bairs and fairs in order to get them to the side of the stage, and chase. Really, though, I admit to getting reckless with Sonic. And with so few actual choices to KO someone, I have done suicide dairs on opponents in order to reset the %s if a round is going unfavorably for me.

 

[Tenki]

Aerial down-B IS TOO GOOD :O

Alright check this out :O
note: I'm using this naming system, for the sake of clarity-
Spin Charge (SC) = Down-B
Spin Hop (SDH) = Side-B
Spin Dash (SD) = the ground roll part of the down/side b

And I came up with this somewhat hard to place combo:

Aerial full SC [hit]> SD [hit] > SDJ [hit] > U-air
It did 31 damage.

Not too sure how the damage is calculated there >_>

Important things to note:
- Sometimes, the landing SD will do 7 damage (same as the "turnaround" damage of a spindash)
- Aerial full Spin Charge (6-7 taps?) does 11 damage! [edit]Actually, all you have to do is hold forward! The faster you go (sideways), the more damage it does, REGARDLESS of charge!
[additions]
- Aerial Spin Charge combos into a 2nd hit if you do it high enough and with low enough damage (under 100%?), and it does anything from 7-10 damage! I'm thinking momentum has a role in this, where more momentum adds damage to the first hit, this one might do more if you have less momentum. This means that each ASC is basically worth 18-21 damage!
- Tapping more only affects the damage/speed of the spindash on the ground


and the best part:
-Aerial Spin Charge can be cancelled by shield upon landing
Try holding shield as you land. HAX!

Addition: Aerial Spin Charge simple Combo!
ASC [hit] > ASC [2nd hit] > double jump+Aerial
F-air: 28-35 damage
N-air: 29-32 damage
U-air: 27-30 damage

This move is too good, too good :O

 

[FrostByte]

The first part of the aerial Spin charge has a weird knockback, so It's hard to use in combos. I made a thread a while ago talking about how it can eat shields with that full combo you crossed out, a homing attack will shield stab 80% of the time if their shield was full. Didn't know it could be cancelled upon landing though, good job finding that out.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Here's something I found on Training mode... if anyone would care to test it online or against someone...

SDJ (SD/SC may hit as well) -> move along with "stunned" opponent -> Dair.

If the timing is correct, you should be able to hit with the "strong" part of the Dair, making the enemy fly even farther to the side, practically scoring you a KO (you should use this at 100%s).

 

[CaliburChamp]

You can actually chain together spin charges (down b). Spin charge, spin charge jump, footstool, jump back and repeat when opponent attempts to get up, the spin charge chain combo will keep repeating unless your timing is screwed up and you dont footstool. Ive done it once 4 times in a row in a real match, with a tough opponent, and it was unintentional at the time. And now Im training to master that spin charge chain combo. I can see this helping sonic alot since he doesnt have a chain grab.
And it will be so very sweet to watch, and will cause massive damage, since one spin charge chain combo does about 10% damage. If you can chain it 10 times, thats 100% damage already. And the spin charge doesnt knock them too far away until 150%, by then it would be time to set up your KO moves. And your opponent DI wont do them much, since spin charge is a mobile attack, just remember to immediately footstool jump afterwards.

 

[Umby]

I actually tried perfecting what you described at one time, after seeing a thread about possibly using Pikachu's Quick Attack Cancel to do something similar. Timing is just so tight. It's definitely a possible infinite, though.