Spiking with Marth

[ZenzybaR]

I'm just wondering about spiking and what kind of things can be done to do it in a way that won't kill me. I usually try jumping over my opponent and doing it and most of the time it doesn't work.
I also sometimes use it as they are standing so that they bounce into the air.

But what i want to know is they way people might do a fair into a spike; sometimes from quite a bit in the level. (Like a 5th in on final destination.)

So what kind of situations is using the spike good in and what can be done into one. Also what kind of angles can you get out of it.

Thank you.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2IZBIwjFoLs basic use of spike.

 

[ZenzybaR]

Thank you.

 

[AzureKiteSky]

I'm not sure if it was mantioned in the video, and this might be just because i always play against sheik, but I often notice that it is best to strike before you think you need to when spiking from a close distance,

 

[max32090]

ken combo, up throw + spike (spacies) up tilt + spike, uhhh idk a lot

 

[Gian]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2IZBIwjFoLs basic use of spike.

lol nice jade total ****, (not a good peach thou)

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

lol nice jade total ****, (not a good peach thou)

Yeah, even my peach is way better than that one...

zenzybar, just remember that the spike is not always the most effective means of KOing your opponent. If you're in a series of fairs, it's likely another fair then edge guarding or a fair to reversed dolphin slash is more effective than a spike. It's not too hard to survive from a Ken combo, especially at less than 50%.

You should use a spike in certain situations, though. One that I can think of off the top of my head is when peach has used her up B and is above the edge of the stage, but within range for a dair. Then go for the spike. There are other opportunities for a spike, but they often require for your opponent to make a mistake.

Oh, and the times max mentioned are good as well. Up tilt to spike, or even dash attack to spike if near the edge of the stage.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I make everyone look bad though so its all right.

Meh, I play renth sometime soon, hes planning on giving me a visit..so expect to get videos of me losing soon.

 

[ZenzybaR]

Yeah, even my peach is way better than that one...

zenzybar, just remember that the spike is not always the most effective means of KOing your opponent. If you're in a series of fairs, it's likely another fair then edge guarding or a fair to reversed dolphin slash is more effective than a spike. It's not too hard to survive from a Ken combo, especially at less than 50%.

You should use a spike in certain situations, though. One that I can think of off the top of my head is when peach has used her up B and is above the edge of the stage, but within range for a dair. Then go for the spike. There are other opportunities for a spike, but they often require for your opponent to make a mistake.

Oh, and the times max mentioned are good as well. Up tilt to spike, or even dash attack to spike if near the edge of the stage.

Thanks, that was actually quite helpful. Although I'm still trying to get combos out properly.

 

[person701]

Just from what I gathered in your first post, you said when you try to spike in the air you hit them up not down, to spike, hit with the tip of the sword.

 

[xelad1]

Just from what I gathered in your first post, you said when you try to spike in the air you hit them up not down, to spike, hit with the tip of the sword.

Yup yup. Also pay attention to the horizontal range the spike has, you can actually spike people who are on your side and not completely below you if you space well with the tip, naturally like most things with marth it boils down to spacing. Watch some videos of mew2kings marth, he is very good at setting up spikes that aren't ken combos from platforms and grabs and the like. Basically if you space well you can spike out of a lot of things but it takes timing and practice. Once you get good enough at it you will notice opporunities of when you can get away with a spike and when alternative methods of edgeguarding would be better.

 

[Stewie1288]

I didn't bother watching the video, but go with the SH dair facing away from the ledge when your opponent is coming from paralell to the ledge or lower. Most lesser skilled players won't sweetspot and you'll be a stock up. =)

 

[undyinglight]

Watch and learn from the pros, practice and implement their strategies, they know what they are doing. Do not however mimic them down to a pinpoint, it can be good to have some of your own variation thrown into the mix.

 

[Aiko]

You say you're from london, which would mean you're playing the PAL version of smash. If so then marths dair is a meteor and not a spike as it is in NTSC. ALthough its still useful, its effectiveness is dramatically reduced

 

[Retroking2000]

You say you're from london, which would mean you're playing the PAL version of smash. If so then marths dair is a meteor and not a spike as it is in NTSC. ALthough its still useful, its effectiveness is dramatically reduced

XD ~thats true why dair in PAL you can just fsmash instead yayhuzz

 

[soaz]

Im so pissed at them for making his spike to a meteor in pal there are so many cool combos from my side that havent ended with a kill just cuz they meteor cancel.

 

[Smash_Gigas]

I always found it easier to spike "backwards". I jump off the ledge backwards 'n C-stick down when my opponent is just slightly below level with me. Marth brings his sword slightly higher at the end of the slash (backwards) than right at the beginning (forwards). The tip of the sword is the key here. Or, this is just my opinion.

Sorry if the explanation's crappy.

 

[moj4991]

I can always get my opponent off the edge but when i spike i go flying down myslef and my enemy recovers well. WTF is wrong with my spike? Anybody?

 

[Ndot]

You are obviously doing it wrong. If he flies up from it, u are hitting him from the middle of the sword, which doesn't spike, so try to hit with the tip of your blade, which spikes. You flying down is you fast falling the down air, you could jump then down air, it helps a lot.

 

[ArcNatural]

Im so pissed at them for making his spike to a meteor in pal there are so many cool combos from my side that havent ended with a kill just cuz they meteor cancel.

Just double jump reverse upB. In almost every situation you can fair -> dair you can reverse upB instead. No ledgehop dairs though .

I can always get my opponent off the edge but when i spike i go flying down myslef and my enemy recovers well. WTF is wrong with my spike? Anybody?

Your doing the down A part too late. Either hit jump and dair before you reach the peak of your jump (once you reach the peak if you press down you will fastfall) or jump and hit the c-stick down to avoid fastfalling.

 

[moj4991]

Thanks dude, it helped but i still haven't quite got it perfect, i get it like 60 percent of the time.

 

[JesiahTEG]

so yesterday, i did something awesome. I was playing vs fox, and i did: Uthrow-->Uair-->Spike. Like a ken combo, but uair instead of fair. it was awesome.

 

[Ace83]

a good thing for some of you might be to try training mode (or just play against a "human" thats not being controlled, since there's no c-stick in training mode) and practice a lot. See what kinds of spikes you can do and still get back to the stage with. Also see what spikes you can land and still be able to LAND on the stage (in case of an edgehog). There is a good amount of lag in marth's spike unlike his forward-air, so its good to know your limits.

 

[moj4991]

a good thing for some of you might be to try training mode (or just play against a "human" thats not being controlled, since there's no c-stick in training mode) and practice a lot. See what kinds of spikes you can do and still get back to the stage with. Also see what spikes you can land and still be able to LAND on the stage (in case of an edgehog). There is a good amount of lag in marth's spike unlike his forward-air, so its good to know your limits.

Cool
What do you mean "a human that's not being controlled"
Doesn't make sense or else its the computer

 

[moj4991]

so yesterday, i did something awesome. I was playing vs fox, and i did: Uthrow-->Uair-->Spike. Like a ken combo, but uair instead of fair. it was awesome.

Sounds cool but how do you make sure that your opponent goes over the edge instead of hitting the ground

 

[Shakugan]

to have the best chance of spiking with marth is to turn ur back and short then dair u will have a better chance of hitting the person

 

[moj4991]

Cool, helpful but i don't like having to do that

 

[Shakugan]

if u dont like doin that than u can always sword dance spike its fun but no always a good thing to do. u can hit a Fox,Falco,sheik, and other ppl with it just get ur timming right and u should be fine.

 

[rubiksfriend]

After throwing up near an edge, is it better to use a nair or fair, then dair to spike?

 

[ArcNatural]

After throwing up near an edge, is it better to use a nair or fair, then dair to spike?

DI, %, and character dependent. Sometimes you can upthrow to fulljump or sh dair. Sometimes you can upthrow uptilt dair, you can fair to dair. Nair usually has too much knockback and lag to link to a dair but in certain situations it could work.

 

[Ace83]

Cool
What do you mean "a human that's not being controlled"
Doesn't make sense or else its the computer

just have your opponent set as human.. as if you were playing against a friend but no one's holding the controller. this way the computer isn't annoying the piss out of you, and you can use the c-stick (i almost always use the c-stick for spikes to avoid unwanted fastfalls).

 

[moj4991]

Whatever. I don't have my own extra controller. Training is just as good as regular two person if not better for the fact that you can change speed and experiment with different damages.

 

[Corax]

Eh, going against a noncontrolled human is bad practice though. I mean, the chances of fighting an opponent that doesn't DI at all, or doesn't try to recover are very slim.

For spiking, just watch marth's blade movement when he does his dair. Look at where it starts, and where it ends. Once you have a good feel for those two then the rest comes naturally, least it did for me. I've always thought spikes to be very situational.

A fun thing you can do with his dair is to shffl it on someone whos approaching with a DA. Leads nicely into a tipper or shffl dair -> tech chase on certain characters.

 

[Ace83]

the whole reason i said to use a non-controlled human is not to practice your spikes on that person, it was to test your limits for edge guarding with spikes (seeing how far and low you can spike someone and still make it back to the stage, since the dair yields so much lag in comparison to the fair and even the bair), with the use of the c-stick. the c-stick is very advantagous with air moves during times when you want to perform an aerial attack and not influence your characters movement (do a fair without drifting forward, or do a spike without fast-falling). Also, changing the speed of gameplay while practicing may not be as beneficial as you first think.

 

[rubiksfriend]

I think Marth can jump out pretty far and still come back safely, so don't be afraid to take risks.

 

[Shai Hulud]

You can recover from

FJ fair => DJ dair
SH fair => DJ dair
SH fair => fast fall => DJ dair, as long as you are only slightly below the ledge or higher when you DJ.
FJ fair => dair
FJ bair => DJ dair
SH bair => DJ dair
FJ bair => dair, though there is little room for error on this one
ledge-hopped dair off the stage, you can go as far as you want as long as you still have a floaty over-B

Then of course you can just randomly jump and dair. The basic rule for those is that you can DJ a dair from about the same height as a ledgehop dair. You can do a dair at the height of a FJ and recover if you still have your DJ. You can do a dair at the height of a FJ => DJ and grab the edge if you don't fast fall. If you fast fall you can still recover if you started the dair early enough.

 

[moj4991]

I agree with Corax and besides how are you supposed to get to the non-controlled player when they fall like a rock.

 

[Ace83]

moj4991, i have made it clear that the object is not to attempt to spike or fight against a non-controlled human lmao.

rubiksfriend, this is true, but knowing that general statement is true will not help you with specifics in battle.

Shai's post is accurate, and is what i was hoping some of you would figure out on your own by practicing (once again, if you're in training mode, you cannot use c-stick and may encounter some unwanted fastfalls when hitting down + A).

 

[awsmsean]

If I feel like spiking someone I down throw them off of the ledge, then wait for them to jump or something then spike them.

 

[moj4991]

That actually makes sense but I regardless of your idea i find it better to just fight against low level computer characters