Sonic

[lordvaati]

I think we all agree that Shadow is the 5th wheel who buggered things up. Sonic was the main man who started everything,Tails was the stalwart sidekick and partner in crime, Knuckles was the mysterious rival frenemy, and Amy was the comic relief and love interest.

Then Shadow came along and took the mysterious rival role, reducing Knuckles to a minor character and screwing things up. Then they killed him off, brought him back t0o fill the team role in the sequel, then had to make a whole game just to explain how he survived, making everything convoluted and having Sega shoot themselves in the ass with the series.

So yeah,him being an AT is good enough.

 

[volbound1700]

I really don't have a problem with Shadow and I think he is a worthy rival to Sonic. I do agree he usurped Knuckles but the Knuckles rivalry was doomed from the start as Knuckles is stuck watching the Master Emerald and he only fought Sonic because he was duped by Dr. Robotnik.

Because Knuckles is primarily stuck to the Master Emerald, I think his appearance in the Sonic series should be sparing as it doesn't make sense for him to wonder off from his current mission. Also SEGA until recently was making Knuckles into Tails part II (See the Adventure series or Sonic Heroes for example) which was just wrong. I hated the way they did Tails in Sonic Adventure II (even though I think the game is alright). I prefer to see Tails as Sonics less speedy sidekick.

Shadow can be a character as long as he isn't a clone. He does have a lot of development and should have seperate moves but I am too worried that he would just be made into a clone of Sonic which doesn't do him justice.

 

[Deleted member]

Knuckles' decrease in role has nothing to do with Shadow. It was already happening.
Why?

1. Starting with Sonic Adventure (that's before Shadow debuted), Knuckles' main "job" became protector of the Master Emerald on Angel Island. He couldn't really leave anymore because if he did, that would leave the M.E. in danger of being stolen. He also can't really take it WITH him, since it's what is keeping Angel Island from plummeting. While Knuckles has been seen off Angel Island on a few occasions that don't involve restoring the Master Emerald, it's implied its not for long because of the forementioned potential of it being stolen.

2. Knuckles has been more of a 2nd sidekick to Sonic rather than rival for quite a while, first seen in Sonic 3D Blast as someone you can give your Rings to in order to be sent to the Special Stages, the same role as Tails. The main reason he even shows up anymore is usually to complete the team of three or the games are spinoffs with multiple playable characters.
This was also the case in the pre-Adventure titles; his only plot relevant roles were his debut in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, where he started off as an enemy, then ally, and Sonic Triple Trouble, where he was an enemy again because Eggman tricked him.

 

[volbound1700]

Golden I did address #1 for one of the reason, IMO, Knuckles should only be in the series sparingly.

 

[final lap]

There are many who think Knuckles should be used sparingly due to his role as master emerald protector, but this is just plain wrong for a few reasons.
1) It's never satisfactorily explained why he needs to guard it in the first place. The chaos emeralds are clearly dangerous and have been misused a multitude of times, master emerald, for all intents and purposes has never been used for anything.
2) It can be easily inferred that Chaos was the reason Knuckles had to guard it. In which case he doesn't need to anymore. Elegant, simple, but also brilliant.
3) The people who think this about Knuckles are ironically taking the story too serious. This is a series about cartoon hedgehog who blow things up! Knuckles is red and can punch things, let's leave it at that. He was used excellently in Heroes and Riders and other games, the whole master emerald shtick should not detract from that in any way. The idea of Knuckles being a master emerald protector is insipid and boring and worst of all it actually suggests that every other game has to involve the Angel Island in some way (IT'S BEEN DONE, PEOPLE! LET IT GO ALREADY) just so Knuckles can be used. (well, Knuckles, and the "rich lore" of S3K/SA1/Chronicles... *gag*)

In short, both Shadow and Knuckles should remain mainstay characters. Neither should be dead/emerald-guarding. If anyone should be, it's Tails, the useless boring-ass chocolate-hating jerk that he is.

As for Sonic, I want him to be Werehog in SSB4.
Which B-button move should be sacrificed to allow him to transform?

 

[volbound1700]

Tails stunk in Sonic Adventure 2. I hated playing him in that. Haven't liked his depictions as much since then but I loved him in the early games and Sonic Adventure. Sonic Chaos he is the preferred character because of his ability to fly.

 

[Spaceless]

I hope Sonics attacks get more priority.

 

[Deleted member]

There are many who think Knuckles should be used sparingly due to his role as master emerald protector, but this is just plain wrong for a few reasons.
1) It's never satisfactorily explained why he needs to guard it in the first place. The chaos emeralds are clearly dangerous and have been misused a multitude of times, master emerald, for all intents and purposes has never been used for anything.
2) It can be easily inferred that Chaos was the reason Knuckles had to guard it. In which case he doesn't need to anymore. Elegant, simple, but also brilliant.
3) The people who think this about Knuckles are ironically taking the story too serious. This is a series about cartoon hedgehog who blow things up! Knuckles is red and can punch things, let's leave it at that. He was used excellently in Heroes and Riders and other games, the whole master emerald shtick should not detract from that in any way. The idea of Knuckles being a master emerald protector is insipid and boring and worst of all it actually suggests that every other game has to involve the Angel Island in some way (IT'S BEEN DONE, PEOPLE! LET IT GO ALREADY) just so Knuckles can be used. (well, Knuckles, and the "rich lore" of S3K/SA1/Chronicles... *gag*)

In short, both Shadow and Knuckles should remain mainstay characters. Neither should be dead/emerald-guarding. If anyone should be, it's Tails, the useless boring-*** chocolate-hating jerk that he is.

As for Sonic, I want him to be Werehog in SSB4.
Which B-button move should be sacrificed to allow him to transform?

.....There had been multiple times that show why Knuckles needs to guard the damn thing.
Every time it gets taken/broken/whatever, Angel Island falls from the sky.

 

[FlareHabanero]

As for Sonic, I want him to be Werehog in SSB4.

Let's just say the Werehog never happened, and move on our marry way before someone gets a concussion.

 

[Shorts]

Shadow didn't **** anything up. The games got worse because of the team, not the character. Pretty sure Shadow has the biggest fanbase behind Sonic himself. There's a reason he's an AT in Smash.

Besides, I liked Shadow The Hedgehog (The Game) That, and Sonic Heroes are the only Sonic games I tried and enjoyed mildly.

 

[volbound1700]

Well recently I got Sonic Adventure DX mostly to play the Gamecube versions and it is BY FAR the best 3D Sonic game. I actually really enjoy it. I played SA2 and own it and there is a big difference.

Cut scenes are far more corny in SA2. The characters are dull outside of maybe the Sonic/Shadow levels. SA cutscenes are more interesting and the overworld was a great idea. I like how you can play it from each characters perspective. The levels and game feels more like Sonic that I remember in Genesis then SA2. I like the storyline of SA2 but the levels are just not that fun, the cutscenes are corny (far more so than SA), and the character depiction outside of Sonic/Shadow is terrible. I hate Tails being locked to the Mech for example, those are my least favorite stage and feel like a pain to play.

 

[Deleted member]

Shadow didn't **** anything up. The games got worse because of the team, not the character. Pretty sure Shadow has the biggest fanbase behind Sonic himself. There's a reason he's an AT in Smash.

Besides, I liked Shadow The Hedgehog (The Game) That, and Sonic Heroes are the only Sonic games I tried and enjoyed mildly.

I'm not the only one here that liked his game and Sonic Heroes and am willing to admit it?
Sweet merciful heavens.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I like Sonic Heroes, but not Shadow the Hedgehog. Shadow the Hedgehog kind of felt like an experiment that flopped on it's back with the morality thing, and kind of messed up Shadow's character. Also Shadow the Hedgehog probably had one of the weakest soundtracks in the series.

 

[Deleted member]

Slightly Hero: Hero Ending.
People will just not live it down.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sonic Heroes is one of my favorite games of all time.

Shadow the Hedgehog was fun just repetitive.

06 was a disaster. Found glitches within the first 15 seconds of gameplay.

Anywho, I think Sonic should have different alternate costumes. Not just different tints of blue.

 

[Shorts]

Yeah, Sonic needs colors. It's funny but I'm pretty sure he had a black costume at one point. I noticed it Pre-Brawl release. Someone was playing as it. I could have been mistaken and it was long ago, but, there were lots of things taken out/added to brawl. Rosalina, Birdo, and Ridley were all said to be ATs at one point.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sonic still has a black alternate costume in the final game.

 

[final lap]

.....There had been multiple times that show why Knuckles needs to guard the damn thing.
Every time it gets taken/broken/whatever, Angel Island falls from the sky.

Master emerald broke in SA2, and nothing regarding the island falling was shown or mentioned.

For all we know angel island is permanently grounded by that point. In fact, maybe the only reason it flew was to keep the master emerald out of reach.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Master emerald broke in SA2, and nothing regarding the island falling was shown or mentioned.

For all we know angel island is permanently grounded by that point. In fact, maybe the only reason it flew was to keep the master emerald out of reach.

That's making a couple of assumptions. There's no proof that Angel Island stopped flying.

 

[final lap]

That's making a couple of assumptions. There's no proof that Angel Island stopped flying.

Hence I said "for all we know". Meaning we don't know for certain one way or another.

Let's just say the Werehog never happened, and move on our marry way before someone gets a concussion.

I hear Sonic lacks KO-ing capability in Brawl. Werehog would be a cool way to fix that.
Switch to Sonic, rack up damage. Switch to werehog to deliver the finishing blow.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I hear Sonic lacks KO-ing capability in Brawl. Werehog would be a cool way to fix that.
Switch to Sonic, rack up damage. Switch to werehog to deliver the finishing blow.

You realize how angry Sonic's fanbase would get if that happened right?

 

[FalKoopa]

Switch to Sonic, rack up damage. Switch to werehog to deliver the finishing blow.

The Zelda/Sheik duo does just that. Sheik racks damage, and Zelda delivers the final blow.

 

[final lap]

You realize how angry Sonic's fanbase would get if that happened right?

Which fanbase? You mean like those who main Sonic? Or the Sonic fanbase in general?

There is a vocal minority of the fanbase who hate everything about it. They would also probably also get angry if Shadow was playable in SSB.

The Zelda/Sheik duo does just that. Sheik racks damage, and Zelda delivers the final blow.

Exactly. And this would make Sonic a more well-rounded character than he currently is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Which fanbase? You mean like those who main Sonic? Or the Sonic fanbase in general?

There is a vocal minority of the fanbase who hate everything about it. They would also probably also get angry if Shadow was playable in SSB.

Exactly. And this would make Sonic a more well-rounded character than he currently is.

The majority of Sonic fans despised the Werehog. I'm not saying that vocal minority who want Sonic 3 and Kuncles part 2. I'm saying the MAJORITY. Werehog was not well liked.

And take the uniqueness away from Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

Master emerald broke in SA2, and nothing regarding the island falling was shown or mentioned.

For all we know angel island is permanently grounded by that point. In fact, maybe the only reason it flew was to keep the master emerald out of reach.

It doesn't have to be shown to happen to know it has happened. Common knowledge states that it will happen, as it is stated that it is the Master Emerald's power that keeps the island in the air.
To assume it works the other way around is ridiculous.

EDIT: As one of the rare fans that legitimately liked the Werehog, I say keep him out.
He is completely unnecessary and will never appear again in the Sonic series anyway, unless it is for a mass cast of multiplayer characters with no bearing on the story of a game.
Aside from that, tacking on a gimmick such as Werehog to Sonic in Smash is a horrible idea.

 

[FalKoopa]

Exactly. And this would make Sonic a more well-rounded character than he currently is.

You missed my point. I wanted to mean that it would rob her of that uniqueness.

 

[final lap]

It doesn't have to be shown to happen to know it has happened. Common knowledge states that it will happen, as it is stated that it is the Master Emerald's power that keeps the island in the air.
To assume it works the other way around is ridiculous.

The only thing ridiculous is that the idea it would happen in SA2 and no mention was made whatsoever of it.
In SA1, when the emerald broke, the island started falling in the very same cutscene. Whereas in SA2, instead what happened is that Knuckles and Rouge continued arguing. "I want it because it's shiny" versus "I'm the protector, it's my emerald"
Not "I have a fetish for airborne land masses"

He is completely unnecessary and will never appear again in the Sonic series anyway

Well I haven't seen any new Ice Climbers games, have you??

unless it is for a mass cast of multiplayer characters with no bearing on the story of a game.

*cough*

 

[Deleted member]

.....your point?
Ice Climbers:
-Are NINTENDO
-Aren't an unnessessary add-on to an existing Smash character
-Aren't a part of history people actively want to forget/hated deeply
-Were added as a token NES representation

Comparing Werehog to the Ice Climbers is downright stupid.

And while "ridiculous" that they made no mention of the island falling in SA2, it overall was not important to the story. It is merely a plothole. But only one of many within the game.

 

[final lap]

Anyway my original point was, that Knuckles's emerald duty is unimportant. The only reason posed in favor of that role is because it's a plot hole otherwise. My argument was simply the fact we would be better off if Knuckles wasn't tethered to the emerald, in which case that should trump all. My secondary argument was that maybe it isn't a plot hole for Knuckles to leave the emerald.

 

[volbound1700]

I love SEGA but I wish they would just merge with Nintendo and then we will get most of the awesome SEGA characters in the next Smash. Ristar, Tails, Knuckles, Tom Jam and Earl, Ai, Shinobi, etc.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Golden.

Get him.

 

[volbound1700]

Ax Battler is another one. Cannot remember his full name.

 

[Deleted member]

Golden.

Get him.

Which one?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Which one?

Mr. Final Lap. If you please.

Ax Battler is another one. Cannot remember his full name.

The guy from Golden Axe?

 

[Deleted member]

Mr. Final Lap. If you please.

I actually don't know where to start with that one...
His last post confuses me. Aside from that, I'd rather not turn this into another Ove situation.

 

[volbound1700]

The guy from Golden Axe?

Yes. Ax Battler was the gamecube version that I owned lol.

 

[final lap]

If Werehog is a bad idea because it would tread on Zelda/Sheik, then maybe it would suffice to simply make Sonic slower and more powerful.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If Werehog is a bad idea because it would tread on Zelda/Sheik, then maybe it would suffice to simply make Sonic slower and more powerful.

Sonic needs to be really fast. And if he is really fast he needs have less power to compensate. It's balancing issues. I think he only needs a bit more KO power.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd rather have no Sonic.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The problem isn't that the moves themselves are hard to make KO's, it's the stale move negation in Brawl that makes Sonic more weak then he really is. It's not just Sonic ether, as a lot of other characters also suffer from it.