Sonic vs. Snake

[JiangWei23]

Who do you think is the counter to who? Both are the only third-party characters in Brawl, and Snake seems to hint at negative feelings towards everyone's "attention deficit azure colored woodland mammal" (Yay Yahtzee). Everyone always loves comparing Sonic vs. Snake (usually to Sonic's detriment >_>), but in a matchup, who has the advantage?

I ask this only because it was just brought to my attention that all of Sonic's spin moves (Usmash, Nair, SideB etc) out prioritize Snake's technological weapons except for the buried mines, which adds another weapon to Sonic's arsenal against Snake.

Sonic has speed, unpredictability, combo potential, and great edge-guarding techniques.

Snake has unbalanced strength, deceptive hitboxes, an arsenal of projectiles, and battlefield trapping capabilities.

Both, of course, have amazing recoveries.

Who do you think has the advantage in a matchup? Or are they pretty matched? This is assuming both players are of equal skill, of course.

*is also trying to gather up tips against his Snake-maining friend*

 

[-Ran]

Snake out does all of Sonic's Priorities. Most of Sonic's moves can't even get past Snake doing a jab.

 

[JiangWei23]

While we're on the topic of priority, I really wish Sonic's Spin Dashes worked like they did in the Genesis games, where it overpowers almost everything. It'd help Sonic's approach greatly, and increase combo opportunities. I say this because for now the Spin Dashes are almost worthless, most people use the Spin Dashes for the cancelling capabilities into aerials.

So yeah, it'd be nice if the Spin Dashes had much greater priority.

And if Homing Attack launched significantly faster.

And if Homing Attack didn't miss as much as it did.

...and if daddy came home. ;_;

(jk, btw)

 

[Tenki]

...I use spindashes for damage >_>

I try to do feints as much as possible to try to open up a way to get a Spindash to hit.

Snake is annoying for me, because if they've got a grenade in hand, doing a spindash>spindash combo = damaging both of you with a grenade, and trading damage with a Snake is no good.

I found that using dash attacks is much safer since they can lead into tilts, you can grab grenades with it, and if Snake uses a grenade "counter", at least you're not still in the attack animation where you get asploded, like you would if he's in a spindash.

I dislike his uptilt.

I lose to Snakes more often than I win, and if I win, it's usually because I somehow drag the game on long enough for him to stop playing defensively and he tries to approach.

apparently, Snakes don't like being in the air (if they do a n-air, d-air, you can punish the lag), and aerial approaches kinda leave him at a disadvantage, especially if you can get behind him. B-air can kill/knock Snake off Cypher, so that helps with edgeguarding, since Cypher isn't very controllable.

._.; if you can juggle well, do that vs Snake (...I can't)
If you can d-throw him into a landmine, do it.
If you can bait him into detonating a C4, do it.
Spinshot is a nice way to get around/behind Snake ._.; I guess you can try doing that or homing attack to get behind a jab wall.

Do Aerial spring drops > d-airs a bit (knocks him out of upsmash lol) and when you can get him to start predicting it (and reacting to it), change it up and do something different ._.;

 

[R4ZE]

currently i veiw it as a pretty even matchup. snakes biggest issue is slowness, and sonic is polar oppisite.

sonic easily avoids a lot fo snakes attacks. playing as soinc, main things to watch out for would be jabs, bair' and be conscious of grenades, but mostly stay away or throw them at snake.

you can abuse spin dash against snake as long as u plan on picking up grenades before u hit them, and up b would work wonders in avoiding snakes spam.

now im not saying it's easy, and im not saying sonic has an advantage, but i just dont think he has any problems fighting snake, and i dont think snake has problems either.


and this is R4ZE's outlook from the sonic side. done.

 

[Sp3ed0fSoUnD]

Well I really don't know.. I have a REALLY hard time fighting Snake's, his Ftilt breaks through so much of Sonic's moves and it has so much knockback

Even mixing up my approaches doesn't help me too much, but it has some effect...

 

[R4ZE]

try abusing grabs, and instead of throwing him.. punch him in the fac until he breaks free, and then do it again.. idk im just throwing u some ideas.

also landing a couple springs on his head couldn't hurt right?




haha. i love your sig man, SA2 was amazing.

 

[Espy Rose]

I always found this as an advantage for Snake, for obvious reasons.

However, dash into shield is greatness when combined with the shield grab. That, and Sonic's too fast to really allow Snake to do anything trap wise save for the c4.

 

[Sp3ed0fSoUnD]

try abusing grabs, and instead of throwing him.. punch him in the fac until he breaks free, and then do it again.. idk im just throwing u some ideas.

also landing a couple springs on his head couldn't hurt right?




haha. i love your sig man, SA2 was amazing.

Yea I've done a spin dash => spring => Dair, that works really good on Snake, and if you get the height right, you can do his Fsmash after Dair

Yea I know I loved that game lol

 

[Umby]

I searched and I searched
As I climbed up the wall
Then I started to fly
And went in deeper

 

[Sp3ed0fSoUnD]

Let it get to me??
I'm just gonna creep
Down in pumpkin hill
I got's to find my lost piece

 

[Aran]

Remember that thread where sonic manages to avoid C4 damage by doing an up smash? Can sonic do the same thing if he hits Snake while he's holding a grenade? I'd try it, but it's finals season . Can someone try this out? It could lead to interesting possibilities.

 

[R4ZE]

if i am correct in thinking sonic has invulnerability frames, he would avoid any damage while in that ball.

 

[samper]

so would he be able to cut through a jab wall or ftilt if you did it as a hyphen smash (or whatever the running Usmash is called). Sonic moves forward quite a bit during a running Usmash and has forward momentum while actually in the ball form for a little while, it might be possible to hit a jab spamming Snake with that, and since he would be standing still I don't think it would be that hard to time.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I personally believe Sonic is a counter for Snake. Why do you think Snake hates Sonic so much in his codecs, because Sonic's attributes counter Snakes. Sonic is always putting pressure on Snake, preventing him from planting mines. Also Sonic destroys Snakes recovery since his Cypher recovery will take him high up on the screen, from that position, sonic can now use his spring and up aerial to KO Snake off the top of the screen. The only thing Sonic has to worry about is getting hit by Snake and Snake is going to have a very hard time catching Sonic.

 

[Tenki]

I personally believe Sonic is a counter for Snake. Why do you think Snake hates Sonic so much in his codecs, because Sonic's attributes counter Snakes. Sonic is always putting pressure on Snake, preventing him from planting mines. Also Sonic destroys Snakes recovery since his Cypher recovery will take him high up on the screen, from that position, sonic can now use his spring and up aerial to KO Snake off the top of the screen. The only thing Sonic has to worry about is getting hit by Snake and Snake is going to have a very hard time catching Sonic.

Situation 1:
Snake comes back with Cypher, close to stage.
Sonic comes in, jumps above him. Snake lets go of Cypher.
Sonic crashes into Cypher and Snake lands :[

Situation 2:
Snake comes back with Cypher, close to stage.
He flies really high, off screen.
Sonic uses double jump, Spring.
Sonic explodes and dies, because Snake dropped a C4 :[

Situation 3:
Snake comes back with Cypher, close to stage.
Sonic gets ready for a B-air.
...wtf? Snake flies in like a superman!
Unfortunately, he can't fly horizontally.
Sonic gets FF B-aired by Snake :[

Situation 4:
Snake comes back with Cypher, far from stage.
Sonic feels a critical hit coming.
Sonic jumps backwards.
Snake feels invulnerable while holding Cypher.
Snake gets b-aired off screen and dies :]

._.; let's not forget that Sonic using a spring to jump = opponent gets ready to dodge.

It's kinda hard to land u-airs on opponents when they're that high, assuming the Snake player goes that high.

 

[Infamous Chimera]

In my opinion, Sonic and Snake are pretty even when it comes to fighting each other. Sonic relies on speed and combos, while Snake relies on power and tactics.

In other words, the key to beating one or the other is to get into your element and get them out of theirs. Keep hitting Snake in a quick manner so that he will have little time to react to your next movements/attacks. Keep him close to you so that you can pummel him with attacks and surprise him. Sonic is also good at gimping recoveries and has a pretty good recovery himself. Thats a pretty nice advantage if you ask me.

Ironically, Snake is my other main, so I know the ins and outs of both sides. It helps to know how the other character plays so you can have an easier time against them (well, at least in my opinion).

 

[Browny]

i disputed this match up ages ago on the matchup thread and no one has challenged it yet muahaha.

anyway i think sonic is a great counter to snake too. not a pikachu style counter, by which pika can 0-death snake without even moving, but counters snake more so than any other character (who all get ***** rather painfully)

snakes advantages over everyone else
Grenades
nikita + c4 + upsmash for edgeguarding
proximity mine for limiting approaches
very high recovery makes him almost untouable to anyone but squirtle and few others

all of which are more or less negated by sonic. snake cant even pull the pin before you can shield grab him from the entire FD length. his edgeguarding doesnt work since sonic recovers so well and snake has no moves besides his throw which will force a recovery below the stage. and spin dash makes short work of proximity mines. sure snake keeps his ridiculous jabs and tilts, but the rest are useless.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Situation 1:
Snake comes back with Cypher, close to stage.
Sonic comes in, jumps above him. Snake lets go of Cypher.
Sonic crashes into Cypher and Snake lands :[

Situation 2:
Snake comes back with Cypher, close to stage.
He flies really high, off screen.
Sonic uses double jump, Spring.
Sonic explodes and dies, because Snake dropped a C4 :[

Situation 3:
Snake comes back with Cypher, close to stage.
Sonic gets ready for a B-air.
...wtf? Snake flies in like a superman!
Unfortunately, he can't fly horizontally.
Sonic gets FF B-aired by Snake :[

Situation 4:
Snake comes back with Cypher, far from stage.
Sonic feels a critical hit coming.
Sonic jumps backwards.
Snake feels invulnerable while holding Cypher.
Snake gets b-aired off screen and dies :]

._.; let's not forget that Sonic using a spring to jump = opponent gets ready to dodge.

It's kinda hard to land u-airs on opponents when they're that high, assuming the Snake player goes that high.

My video explains it all. Look at around 0:30-0:40 You'll also notice that snakes tries to drop the C4 on me and explode me up high, but when your at a certain angle Snake cant do this at all. You have to consider positioning into your equation Tenki.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=37k3BF9RbKQ

 

[Umby]

If he Ciphers from below the stage, you can grab his cipher and Snake gets ****ed.

 

[TwinkleToes]

In my opinion, Sonic and Snake are pretty even when it comes to fighting each other. Sonic relies on speed and combos, while Snake relies on power and tactics.

I think if you're not using tactics as a Sonic you're probably going to lose pretty fast to decent players. None of his moves have great range or priority so it's not like you can be a Melee Falco and just try to finesse your way to victory using technical ability.

Although, I'd like to see what your Snake is capable of. Want to Brawl sometime? Sonic vs Snake, me vs you? PM me if you're interested I'm available pretty much whenever.

 

[memphischains]

I just made a post about this in the sonic non obvious glitch thread

 

[R4ZE]

you guys really have to consider that sonic's up b allows him to quickly avoid almost any attack in the game before it connects, and also

snake is too slow.... seriously.

 

[Shiri]

Fun fact: More than half the species of hedgehogs are natural enemies of snakes and are snake eaters.

Just in case you've ever wondered why Snake has that attitude in his codec conversation with Otacon.

I think, as a character, Sonic is beat out by Snake in terms of survivability and adaptability on the battlefield. In terms of moves, Sonic also gets beat out by Snake's ridiculous tilt game alone. However, I think this match is quite winnable for Sonic. You're mainly going to be taking advantage of using your shield wisely and retaliating out of powershielded forward tilts. Forward air works wonders when Snake is shielding--you can aim for the top corner of a shield and eventually slice through it because Snake is so darn tall. Don't focus so much on combos and spin dash approaches as much as making sure you don't trade hits too often. Snake outlives Sonic by at least ten times, so some chip damage to start and then making continuous attempts to keep him off balance is a safe way to approach the matchup, I think. Going all out too quickly and too often means he starts powershielding you and you don't want that, haha.

 

[memphischains]

Fun fact: More than half the species of hedgehogs are natural enemies of snakes and are snake eaters.

Just in case you've ever wondered why Snake has that attitude in his codec conversation with Otacon.

I think, as a character, Sonic is beat out by Snake in terms of survivability and adaptability on the battlefield. In terms of moves, Sonic also gets beat out by Snake's ridiculous tilt game alone. However, I think this match is quite winnable for Sonic. You're mainly going to be taking advantage of using your shield wisely and retaliating out of powershielded forward tilts. Forward air works wonders when Snake is shielding--you can aim for the top corner of a shield and eventually slice through it because Snake is so darn tall. Don't focus so much on combos and spin dash approaches as much as making sure you don't trade hits too often. Snake outlives Sonic by at least ten times, so some chip damage to start and then making continuous attempts to keep him off balance is a safe way to approach the matchup, I think. Going all out too quickly and too often means he starts powershielding you and you don't want that, haha.

you, sir, are the man (no sarcasm, this is a serious chains here)

 

[R4ZE]

really sonic should never go all out quickly. it gives the opponent the option to just meet sonics attacks with their own, and i think we all know where that leads.

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

ive fought many snake mainers...(not noobs) and i can give very helpful advise to this matchup...
sonic...ur only chance at "murdering" snake is to...
1: CHASE HIM LIKE NUTS AND DONT LET HIM ESCAPE/MOVE/BLINK OR ANYTHING.
2: also, grabbing is your friend.
3: ther is NO REASON TO BE JUGGLED BY snake's up smash!!!!sonic has about the Longest air dodge in the game!!!!
4: F34R T3H "D45H 4TT4CK" & "5N4K3 D45H1NG" thats what #1 is about

and...

5: how to win any match..."don't get hit"

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

wat i said in #1 may sound ludicrous... but if you go ALL offensive and chase 4 ur life u will win!
(without bein' stupid and walkin into his traps)<<<(DONT LET HIM GET THE CHANCE)

snake's ultimate weakness to me is his recovery...ive used him 4 a long time and can say its not smart to use his air attacks while falling... (too long) ALL CHARACTERS can abuse this and beat the s*** out of snake while he's using his ^B... he'll take damage or fall and have to ^B again...so, repeat!

 

[Stalfoe]

Beat Snake with Sonic? NO PROBLEM! The best/easiest/only-way-to-do-it would be to poison your opponent prior to the match.
IMPORTANT: Do not wait to poison the Snake user after the match because the effects of the poison will act too late!

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

hes right u kno!

 

[MidniteBlaze]

Easy, Snake owns Sonic...

 

[Umby]

You are ALL wrong.


























Sonic beats Snake with Side Taunt.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Snake is very gimpable at the right percent damage. As Mch12 said, Snake falls like a rock when he's using aerials; so, he basically can't counter-attack you when you go for gimps. You just gotta know what's right for what situation.

 

[Camalange]

Snake is very gimpable at the right percent damage. As Mch12 said, Snake falls like a rock when he's using aerials; so, he basically can't counter-attack you when you go for gimps. You just gotta know what's right for what situation.

hes right, snake is pretty suckish in the air. If you can get snake off the stage, just barrage him with aireals. his upB recovery has a lot of lag. when he starts it, he falls a bit, then starts slowly coming up. when he trys using that, thats when you should attack him and keep him of the stage (or knock him off)

 

[Browny]

eh its interesting when you watch guys like dsf play snake. some advantages snake has over many characters;
he can edgeguard in a veritable wall of fire with up-smash spamming and c4 + proximity mines on the edge, you better have a big second jump if you wanna get over that
his recovery is basically untouchable to all not named pikachu (hahah thunder owns snake so bad)

sonic negates them more of less,
his recovery gets over upsmash spam no problems, and side b can go under FD and still recover, so yeah GL to edgeguarding snake haha
sping to b-air will catch snake no matter how high he is. also one of the few moves that actually kicks snake out of his 'juggernaught' frames or w/e its called. which many characters cant do to gimp him

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

to show my stragagy i said a while ago...

(viciously attack snake! don't let him throw ANY attacks! or let him lay a mine! DONT GIVE HIM THE CHANCE TO BREATH!! 100% VICIOUS OFFENCE!!!!!)

... whatch the beggining of this video!

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=dKzziKoxCDw

 

[Camalange]

The vicious offence is also a very good strategy, haha, just take any oppurtunity to outrun snake and attack before he does...all his attacks are pretty slow...