Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[Kinzer]

Brawl: "Sonic's not garbage! He's mid tier!"
Sm4sh: "Sonic's not top 5! He's mid tier!"

Speak for yourself. I'll be the first to admit I think Sonic is actually MORE than a mid-tier character.

 

[Camalange]

Speak for yourself. I'll be the first to admit I think Sonic is actually MORE than a mid-tier character.

You would not be the first.

I don't think he's mid tier. I was just making a joke.

But he ain't top 5.

 

[Heartstring]

I don't think he's mid tier. I was just making a joke.

But he ain't top 5.

I'm beginning to agree with you on the top 5 thing, as people learn the game, Sonic's ability to approach gets significantly WORSE. I'm playing people and they start to realise that they can just jab us out of SD/SC.

He's still like top 10 though. Incredible character

 

[Camalange]

I'm beginning to agree with you on the top 5 thing, as people learn the game, Sonic's ability to approach gets significantly WORSE. I'm playing people and they start to realise that they can just jab us out of SD/SC.

You know you have a problem when your best approach is pretending to approach.

He's still like top 10 though. Incredible character

With the current meta I can agree to that. I just think it's a real shame that there are like only 10 characters people are actually playing in this game. So much unexplored potential. Sonic hands down looks like a top 10 character when only 10 of the 50+ characters are actually being displayed in the couple months he game has been out. Only time will tell if Sonic's KO buffs will keep him that high.

 

[Heartstring]

You know you have a problem when your best approach is pretending to approach.

With the current meta I can agree to that. I just think it's a real shame that there are like only 10 characters people are actually playing in this game. So much unexplored potential. Sonic hands down looks like a top 10 character when only 10 of the 50+ characters are actually being displayed in the couple months he game has been out. Only time will tell if Sonic's KO buffs will keep him that high.

He's that high because of sheer mobility, The fact that he has reliable KO moves that work with his mobility (Usmash & Bthrow) helps a ton too.


Also, looks like I'm likely heading to apex, yay for me.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Oh man, We're getting established as having a good character, and now all the new folk come running!

I think I remember why I stuck to bad characters in the first place. I guess I'm gonna main WFT now.

For the record, I hadn't seen a tier list before I started playing him. I usually end up maining lower tiers in other FGs anyway, so it is nice to play a solid character for once.

 

[Camalange]

Also, looks like I'm likely heading to apex, yay for me.

this belongs in the sonics @ apex thread lul

 

[Heartstring]

this belongs in the sonics @ apex thread lul

Well, SORRY I don't check the forum and just check whatever I'm subbed to!
Imma go find that thread now

 

[Camalange]

Well, SORRY I don't check the forum and just check whatever I'm subbed to!
Imma go find that thread now

I was just messing with you

So I guess I'll have to meet you there I GUESS.

 

[Heartstring]

I was just messing with you

So I guess I'll have to meet you there I GUESS.

I found it anyway. Didn't know my fellow UK sonic was going too :DDDDD

I SUPPOSE we'll have to hang out.
We can do alcohol things. Last time I was at apex I got drunk with florida and broke into the hot tub area with them. then proceded to wander the halls in towels

 

[Camalange]

I SUPPOSE we'll have to hang out.
We can do alcohol things. Last time I was at apex I got drunk with florida and broke into the hot tub area with them. then proceded to wander the halls in towels

UGH.

Looks like we HAVE TO.

 

[Heartstring]

UGH.

Looks like we HAVE TO.

are we gonna just keep ACCENTUATING our comment in a PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE fashion?

 

[Camalange]

are we gonna just keep ACCENTUATING our comment in a PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE fashion?

I mean MAYBE with THAT attitude we will...

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

This character.
Is so good.
Omg.

 

[Funkermonster]

Making my escape from the dreaded For Glory mode, these are my first matches on SmashLadder (bad quality though)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMA4sFvZfgk
Sm4sh Wii U match 87: http://youtu.be/-4ORFrSyplw
Sm4sh Wii U match 85: http://youtu.be/8faRvhSvi5E

Any and all helpful advice is welcome if it improves my game . I'm well aware there's a video thread for this stuff, but for whatever reason my posts in there almost always get overlooked and I usually don't get the advice I'm after. Also there's a tournament happening near me next Saturday so I'm kinda dying for advice more than ever now.

Forgive me if Im breaking any rules, couldn't help it.

 

[kataridragon]

Down throw tech chase.

 

[Camalange]

Making my escape from the dreaded For Glory mode, these are my first matches on SmashLadder (bad quality though)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMA4sFvZfgk
Sm4sh Wii U match 87: http://youtu.be/-4ORFrSyplw
Sm4sh Wii U match 85: http://youtu.be/8faRvhSvi5E

Any and all helpful advice is welcome if it improves my game . I'm well aware there's a video thread for this stuff, but for whatever reason my posts in there almost always get overlooked and I usually don't get the advice I'm after. Also there's a tournament happening near me next Saturday so I'm kinda dying for advice more than ever now.

Forgive me if Im breaking any rules, couldn't help it.

It's fine, but generally it's preferred to be patient within the video archive.

I watched the first video. I felt like there were times where your patience was pretty solid, but then other times you would break the good thing you had going... Mostly towards the end you fall apart because you don't know how to kill with Sonic.

Example, against Little Mac, there's no reason for you to be whiffing Dsmash so far away from him. You'll eat **** from that. On the ground, Little Mac has serious priority, damage, speed, and KO potential to his moves. You were playing your best when you played your air game and used the platforms to your advantage.

Also, opt more for DA and grab OoS against him. You go for Dsmash too often and that move is way too easy to punish. I only really use Dsmash to punish spotdodges, rolls, etc.

Have more motivation for your approaches. There's a lot of overall whiffing. I'd like to see running shield with more purpose, as well as more variety to your spindashes. Case in point, there's a moment where Mac is charging a smash, you notice, and wait... Which is good. He whiffs, but then you totally whiff the running grab punish. These are things that Sonic can't afford to miss, and has no reason to. That's his whole metagame. You let Mac control the pace too much, when all you need is to grab and throw him up for air pressure or down throw tech chase. Mac is complete trash in the air and offstage, yet I never see you try to bthrow or uthrow to set up for aerial or offstage pressure. This is why you will continue to lose to Mac. One bair near the ledge practically spells death, especially when you edgeguard him with spring.

Towards the end, you're trying so hard to get a kill... But doing it all the worst ways. I don't think I saw a single Bthrow attempt and not nearly enough bair. Usmash is so bad on whiff. Mac will make you eat **** for that. Stop doing options that are unsafe on shield and just try to get him offstage. Bthrow will RUIN him. So will Bair and spring as mentioned. There are way too many times where you shield a hit of his and try to go for a greedy Fsmash/Dsmash/Usmash that will NEVER work against him, let alone most characters. His ground moves have way too little cooldown and you will get wrecked.

Dsmash should be used to punish rolls, spotdodges, etc. Usmash should be used to catch landings or to shield poke/pressure when they're above you/on a platform (basically same principle as catching a landing). Fsmash should be used as a spacing tool for edgeguarding, especially when they're going for the ledge. It's also good on reads during certain situations, but Fsmash is honestly not as good this MU unless you're catching him trying to land or recover.

Also that ending... Don't just approach aimlessly, as I said before. Just let yourself land safely then do your thing. Why would you jump into him like that when he as a full KO meter and an entire stage to work with?

 

[Heartstring]

What he said ^

But really, commiting to an approach with sonic vs. a good opponent = pain. Kinda ******* around untill they do something is the correct method of getting in with sonic

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Treat raw aprroaches as a mixup. Sonic forces a reaction, thats what makes him scary. Then you start punishing/baiting to the best of your ability.

Your opponent should feel flustered and panicked basically, BEFORE you start commiting to stuff. after they start panicking in their head, trying to shield or dodge everything, is when you start hittin em with the whoopdywop

 

[Heartstring]

I try to think of sonics neutral game similar to melee marth. lots of moving in and out of their zone, hoping to cause a a reaction. Our actual attacks in neutral are pretty unsafe but once we're in, we're golden.

 

[Gregory2590]

I try to think of sonics neutral game similar to melee marth. lots of moving in and out of their zone, hoping to cause a a reaction. Our actual attacks in neutral are pretty unsafe but once we're in, we're golden.

I can sort of agree with this. I often found myself running back and forth for my approaches since A LOT of attacks shut down ours priority wise.

Edit: Also, as said in Skype last night, Sourspot Nair into Fsmash is way too good. It may not have anything to do with the current discussion, but it will always be relevant.

 

[kataridragon]

I just keep pressuring and racking up damage. Eventually I will land a nice kill move naturally or an f-tilt or f-throw will be strong enough kill. I try not to fish for a kill move.

D throw off the ledge then off stage bair works a lot. Catching a landing opponent with up smash is a good ko too.

 

[Camalange]

Just in case it hasn't gone noticed...

Wanted to inform everyone that I made a Sonic Player Finder thread.

Please submit your information if you so choose. Newcomers and veterans alike.

 

[ChikoLad]

This is basically the Social Thread, right? (Haven't been here in a while)

If so, I thought some Sonic fans here might take interest in this:
http://www.sonicstadium.org/2015/01/sonic-4-episode-3-was-planned-then-cancelled/

Sonic 4: Episode III was planned but ultimately cancelled. We basically knew this since there was a scrapped cutscene in Episode II's files (though you couldn't actually view it). But now we have official confirmation.

Even more interesting:

Christian "The Taxman" Whitehead of Classic Sonic remake fame (Sonic CD in 2011, Sonic 1 in 2012, and Sonic 2 in 2013) has come out saying that he was asked to work on Episode III with Sega Studios Australia. But after they finished the Castle of Illusion remake, they had to close down.

That's quite a shame.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Hey gang...just wanted to say playing smash at an anime convention is ****ing horrible. And people wonder why casuals get treated like ****. I heard wombo combo so much it got annoying. The people shouting it had no clue what it meant. On a good note though folks the locals smashers of chitown/IL loved my sonic/mac and gave me info and such to go their tournaments. It's funny I was beating people who owned game when I don't got it. They are like," how do you know what o do dude?" I tell them," Well I just watch and pay attetion."

 

[Camalange]

This is basically the Social Thread, right? (Haven't been here in a while)

Yes, long time no see.

If so, I thought some Sonic fans here might take interest in this:
http://www.sonicstadium.org/2015/01/sonic-4-episode-3-was-planned-then-cancelled/

Sonic 4: Episode III was planned but ultimately cancelled. We basically knew this since there was a scrapped cutscene in Episode II's files (though you couldn't actually view it). But now we have official confirmation.

Even more interesting:

Christian "The Taxman" Whitehead of Classic Sonic remake fame (Sonic CD in 2011, Sonic 1 in 2012, and Sonic 2 in 2013) has come out saying that he was asked to work on Episode III with Sega Studios Australia. But after they finished the Castle of Illusion remake, they had to close down.

That's quite a shame.

I still have yet to play a single Sonic 4 game. I played the Ep. 1 demo once and I hated it.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yes, long time no see.


I still have yet to play a single Sonic 4 game. I played the Ep. 1 demo once and I hated it.

Episode I isn't very good at all (yet I've still played through it a good few times, go figure ), honestly. Terrible physics, re-hashed level themes make it feel more like a bad remake of the first two Sonic games than a sequel to S3&K, etc. It's pretty harmless if you just plan to play it once through though, as it only takes like 30-40 minutes to play through, assuming you don't go for Chaos Emeralds and it's your first time.

Episode II is something I recommend though. It's not as good as any of the Classic games, but the physics are VASTLY improved from Episode I and it has some cool environments. It has it's own problems (mainly the worst boss battles in 2D Sonic except for the Metal Sonic fights, and some at times tedious level design due to forcing the Combo gimmick). And in my opinion, it's actually pretty fun in Co-Op. Even the online Co-Op was fun when the game was still fresh.

--------

As far as Sonic in Smash 4 has been going, I've definitely been able to play him a lot better on Wii U. I still need work, but I can at least combo much more consistently, and I SD much less frequently. Whenever I do SD, it's usually me spin dashing off the edge after already using my second jump or something.

Also, I had a very clutch doubles match where I still managed to win with my Sonic even though my partner lost all of his stock early on. I saved a replay and plan to upload a video of it one day when I get my recording equipment sorted out again.

 

[Camalange]

Episode I isn't very good at all (yet I've still played through it a good few times, go figure ), honestly. Terrible physics, re-hashed level themes make it feel more like a bad remake of the first two Sonic games than a sequel to S3&K, etc. It's pretty harmless if you just plan to play it once through though, as it only takes like 30-40 minutes to play through, assuming you don't go for Chaos Emeralds and it's your first time.

The camera always felt off too. Like, Sonic runs too close to the right side of the screen or something. I don't know, the game just felt wrong to me, for many of the reasons you said.

And to be honest, it'll sound elitist of me, but it just really put an awful taste in my mouth seeing my favorite video game of all time be followed up by this ******* child they dared to called Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and then further bastardized it by breaking it up into episodes immediately. The whole thing just annoyed me.

Episode II is something I recommend though. It's not as good as any of the Classic games, but the physics are VASTLY improved from Episode I and it has some cool environments. It has it's own problems (mainly the worst boss battles in 2D Sonic except for the Metal Sonic fights, and some at times tedious level design due to forcing the Combo gimmick). And in my opinion, it's actually pretty fun in Co-Op. Even the online Co-Op was fun when the game was still fresh.

That's pretty much what I heard about it too. I watched someone do one of the boss battles and I was just like oh okay.

Sonic was never known for it's boss battles really, so I could probably overlook that. Maybe one day I'll try it but... Ugh.

As far as Sonic in Smash 4 has been going, I've definitely been able to play him a lot better on Wii U. I still need work, but I can at least combo much more consistently, and I SD much less frequently. Whenever I do SD, it's usually me spin dashing off the edge after already using my second jump or something.

BSBS?

 

[ChikoLad]

Episode II just had bad boss battles with the exception of the Metal Sonic fights because they all took so long to beat even when you know exactly what you are doing. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to beat the first boss in less than two minutes, keeping in mind that bosses have their own Acts in Sonic 4. Doesn't sound like much, but considering the simplicity of them, it's a drag (basically, imagine something as simple as the Zazz boss fights in Sonic Lost World, only it takes over two minutes to beat). And I think they even had long "start-ups" too. The final boss was a little better though, as it at least felt very inspired as a Sonic boss in general, though was still on the long side.

BSBS?

I looked that up in the FAQ thread and there was no description of it. I'm not very well versed in Sonic ATs yet, since I have not had the time to learn them (heck, I haven't even gotten that deep into learning Rosalina ATs yet, and she's my first main). I assume it's something that commonly causes problems for Sonic players?

 

[jordanm43444]

BSBS commonly stands for BULL****BULL**** and is basically when the spindash eats a jump for no reason so we just fall to our deaths screaming the aforementioned term.

 

[ChikoLad]

Oh well yes, that happens a lot on 3DS for sure, and on Wii U too.

Though I figured there must be something more too it, like maybe I was using it under the wrong circumstances. Or is it really just a random bug you can't help?

 

[jordanm43444]

Its a mechanic with Sonics spindashes, no matter what no matter where you use it you will ALWAYS only have one jump when it gets used, and if youve already used that jump and youre offstage. R.I.P

 

[Camalange]

I looked that up in the FAQ thread and there was no description of it.

I haven't gotten around to updating it yet ;_;

It's in the moveset thread, but people kept asking about it so much that I decided I'd make a section for it in the FAQ. So for now a more in-depth breakdown can be found there.

BSBS commonly stands for BULL****BULL**** and is basically when the spindash eats a jump for no reason so we just fall to our deaths screaming the aforementioned term.

Bull **** Bull ****, Brawl Spring Bull ****, or the most friendly one is Brawl Spring Bug Stance.

Oh well yes, that happens a lot on 3DS for sure, and on Wii U too.

Though I figured there must be something more too it, like maybe I was using it under the wrong circumstances. Or is it really just a random bug you can't help?

It's basically a bug, but I think it was intentional...

If you do an ASC, hit the ground, go into spin roll, then spin jump... You can't double jump out of it. gg.

If you do an ASC, hit the ground, go into spin roll, then roll of a platform and enter ASC again, you somehow get your double jump back. wp

Bull **** like that.

 

[ChikoLad]

...Yeah, that really is quite odd. It seems like it couldn't be a mistake, but at the same time, I can't see why they would feel the need to do that.

 

[Espy Rose]

Episode II's Final Boss fight is pretty damn good.

 

[ChikoLad]

Episode II's Final Boss fight is pretty damn good.

I like it for it's sense of scale and the sheer creativity of it. Only thing I didn't like is that the traps began to feel a bit messy later on and I swear they are randomised to a degree (I've seen playthroughs where there was no possible way of the players avoiding them due to being at the wrong place at the wrong time).

 

[Espy Rose]

Git gud.

 

[kataridragon]

Is liking Sonic episode 1 such a bad thing? I enjoyed it. It may have not been perfect but it was one of the best Sonic games we had at the time.

I got a master system recently and was able to play Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on it. Green Hill Zone act 3 is a killer. how could you even beat this level on a Game Gear?

 

[Camalange]

Is liking Sonic episode 1 such a bad thing?

Yes.

Actually, I don't really care. I might give Ep. II a chance now, but I was just so bitter and disappointed about Ep. I so I just let it be.

I got a master system recently and was able to play Sonic the Hedgehog 2 on it. Green Hill Zone act 3 is a killer. how could you even beat this level on a Game Gear?

That's Green Hills Zone to you, punk.

 

[kataridragon]

That's Green Hills Zone to you, punk.

Moderating at its finest! Jk

But seriously Spike Death Hills Zone Act 3 + Death Boss

Sonic episode 1 was cool I thought. Mad gear was intense and exciting. The casino zone was fun and cool. Running on the cards was exciting. I must be missing something? Really the only thing I was a little upset with was the length.