Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[PeliPenguin]

If we still had Delfino and Castle Seige legal I could see how Umbra makes sense, but they're banned in most rule sets and Umbra isn't that much better than them.

The question I ask isn't IF it's legal but WHY should it be legal, since it's less competitive than the standard list of BF,FD,SV,LC,TaC as starters with DH and DL as counter picks. And it's not like we don't have enough stages. Most tournaments don't have it legal for a good reason and having it legal on the widely used Anthers Ladder is completely pointless practice for most players as their tournament won't have it bar a few exceptions.

Oh and Sensane dw about the testing I'll just have to suck it up if the stage is legalised on Anthers.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Didn't I, like, just wrote a lot about the stage's merits?

It covers the merit as an individual stage, how it balances with the rest and how it can be worked around.

Most people have it banned because majors just copied previous rulesets when the stage didn't even exist. I think this trend has been followed pretty much since Paragon.

Also, "jank" and "more/less competitive" are bad stage arguments. They have been bad since like 10 years ago.

 

[PeliPenguin]

Regardless if you think the stage earns its place on the stage list, you can't argue that as it stands now there is ZERO reason to have it on anthers since it is near universally banned and practice on the stage for most players is meaningless. The benefits of another stage with 'big blast zones' doesn't make up for how polarising this stage is for certain characters, Little Mac and Cloud come to mind especially. The stage has its place in rule sets that include Delfino and Castle Seige but its too radically different to the standard stage list to be considered.

Also, one of the main reasons its banned isn't because of the stage, but the background being too distracting, even if it was a reskin of Smashville it still wouldn't be legal.

Majors copy stage lists because they understand what stages players like and the ones they don't. If you randomly had Delfino this year at EVO a lot of players would not be happy with it. It's better to play it safe than take unnecessary risks for the sake of variety.

Also how is 'more/less competitive' a bad argument, is that not how we determine what stages are legal?

 

[The Merc]

Regardless if you think the stage earns its place on the stage list, you can't argue that as it stands now there is ZERO reason to have it

See it's mind sets like these is why ever is always banned. Half glass empty.

Seriously, what is it with this community when something is a little different everyone is just "yeah uh nope, banned"

It's really stupid.

Didn't I, like, just wrote a lot about the stage's merits?

It covers the merit as an individual stage, how it balances with the rest and how it can be worked around.

Most people have it banned because majors just copied previous rulesets when the stage didn't even exist. I think this trend has been followed pretty much since Paragon.

Also, "jank" and "more/less competitive" are bad stage arguments. They have been bad since like 10 years ago.

No, I read it and I thought it was really good reasoning and it shows why it doesn't need to be banned

 

[PeliPenguin]

Dude you misquoted me I specifically said there is no reason to have it ON ANTHERS. I'm not ignoring the stage completely although I personally don't like it.

I've said multiple times practice on the stage is pointless because people online will be practicing on a stage that will not be at their tournament most likely.

 

[The Merc]

Dude you misquoted me I specifically said there is no reason to have it ON ANTHERS. I'm not ignoring the stage completely although I personally don't like it.

I've said multiple times practice on the stage is pointless because people online will be practicing on a stage that will not be at their tournament most likely.

No actually I didn't. I deliberately did that because isn't Anthers like the smash of smash or something ?

 

[PeliPenguin]

Anthers is used as a platform to practice for those who can't practice offline. It's supposed to emulate tournament play so one can practice being in a tournament setting without having to travel. Having Umbra on its stagelist would contradict its purpose seeing as in most places the stage is banned, therefore the practice on the stage would be useless in tournaments.

How high ranked you are on Anthers is widely believed to not be legit results, nor is it indicative of how a player stacks up worldwide. Why? Because it's online and the small input delay makes a huge difference. Having Umbra legal on Anthers because it is a 'central hub of smash' is incorrect, tournaments is where topics like this can be discussed and are relevant. Having Umbra legal on Anthers is a spit in the face to those who rely on it for practice so they can get REAL results in tournaments.

 

[The Merc]

Well the solution is simple. Make Umbra Tower legal across all tournaments

 

[PeliPenguin]

Umbra being legal in tournaments is a whole other matter, honestly if you want to make a poll to get Umbra legal it should be targeted at tournaments instead of Anthers.

I would be less annoyed if it was too because then it'd be a legit democracy instead of a kick in the balls to people who rely on wifi to practice.

Although I don't like the stage if enough people came out and said they wanted it I wouldn't stop them nor would I spread around the poll and tell them to say no. The only reason I've done that in this instance is to help people realise how non-sensical it is having it legal on Anthers but not in tournaments.

 

[IvanQuote]

Has Umbra ever been actually legal (counterpick or otherwise) in a tournament? I feel that it should be given a chance in at least one major tournament, similar to how customs were on at EVO that one year. I'm not sure what the difference between Anthers and other events are; I merely want it to be available at one event.

 

[PeliPenguin]

There are a few American weeklies who run it and I think Texas allows it.

Most places have banned it since it was released, and it's unlikely we'll see it at a national. A lot of TOs either don't like the stage or don't see why they should risk running it.

 

[Sensane]

I always thought that Umbra was more supportive of Little Mac because of the platform layouts benefitting poor recoveries more, kinda like t&c, but better.

Also I started a poll on Smash Amino to see what other people think, and I could contact some experts on Twitter.

 

[Sytal]

I think Umbra as a legal stage ... might be okay. I can't play it personally though, as the rotating background and colors gives me nausea. I'm not quite sure why, as I can handle the all the other vibrantly changing stages, but Umbra just messes with me hard.

 

[The Merc]

I think Umbra as a legal stage ... might be okay. I can't play it personally though, as the rotating background and colors gives me nausea. I'm not quite sure why, as I can handle the all the other vibrantly changing stages, but Umbra just messes with me hard.

But then in that case how do you go fast?

 

[Espy Rose]

Did a slight edit on the FSJ application thread. Credit to KC for figuring out how to fsj dair Marth/Lucina/Toon Link, because it basically invalidated the difficulty in dair spiking anyone that couldn't be hit with buffered dair.

For completionist sake I put the info for Bayonetta/Corrin/Cloud on the Stomp jablock, but with customs banned it's kinda meh.

This is about all you need to re-read if you're looking into it:

The following is a list of characters of which FSJ > Dair is guaranteed to spike. This is done by buffering dair immediately out of a Footstool.

Miis were only tested on Medium size.

FSJ > Dair

Will Work:



Will Work, but cannot be buffered. These are done by holding your control stick in the opposite direction that you're facing, and hitting dair a moment after the footstool jump. It cannot be buffered!:
*

*Hold the dair just a moment longer than the rest in this list.

 

[Sensane]

For no reason in particular I got on for chumps mode today and it's just has herpes infested as I remember. I say herpes infested because only reddit can be cancerous because reddit is cancer.

 

[Espy Rose]

 

[Sytal]

But then in that case how do you go fast?

I think Umbra is just a special case for me. I usually don't get too nauseous from wacky visuals.
Although Soldier Porygon did make my head hurt.
I mean, I've played Generations whilst upside-down just for the fun of it. I can go fast just fine.
Just...not on Umbra.
If you ever see me at a tourney, just not Umbra, please.

 

[The Merc]

Anyone one picking this game up?

Spoiler: With DLC

I think Umbra is just a special case for me. I usually don't get too nauseous from wacky visuals.
Although Soldier Porygon did make my head hurt.
I mean, I've played Generations whilst upside-down just for the fun of it. I can go fast just fine.
Just...not on Umbra.
If you ever see me at a tourney, just not Umbra, please.

Well that makes sense. No, not really.

Though if you say don't go Umbra, then I guess i have to go Umbra

 

[IvanQuote]

What even are these update notes?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Hey, what's new?

 

[Syndralix]

Not much. I've just been rearranging furniture and working on my next YouTube video.

 

[IvanQuote]

This past weekend my campus held its annual anime convention. I was put into the karaoke cafe. It was...deafening.

 

[Sensane]

So ZeRo chose 6WX as best Sonic main in the world. I called it. I can't really say Komo since he needs to drop Cloud to achieve the title imo. Hey Camalange what did you think?

Also I've been mixing up my landing options wih Sonic lately and created a tag that says RELAX so I can keep my cool in matches. So far it's improving my performance.

 

[PeliPenguin]

I personally think Sonic is better played patiently, although it is very impressive how 6wx manages to do so well with a more aggro Sonic. I do think Komo plays the character more optimally though, but he doesn't use Sonic as much anymore so if you want the best 'main' its definitely 6wx.

Also I've been mixing up my landing options wih Sonic lately and created a tag that says RELAX so I can keep my cool in matches. So far it's improving my performance.

Although Sonic has crap landing options its great how he pushes your mix ups when landing to its limits. In fact I love how two of Sonic's main weaknesses (bad approach and landing options) can actually be worked around if the player is good enough. Guess that's what keeps us in top tier.

The tag thing sounds really interesting, its easy to just play on tilt and it'll ruin your gameplay for the set, in which only hindsight will help you realize your mistake. Of course with the tag that wouldn't happen, I see Dabuz using the tag 'focus' so I guess it works pretty well.

 

[Camalange]

So ZeRo chose 6WX as best Sonic main in the world. I called it. I can't really say Komo since he needs to drop Cloud to achieve the title imo. Hey Camalange what did you think?

Komo uses Sonic a lot less, Ken doesn't travel much, and 6WX has the most notable solo Sonic wins and placings.

Manny is having a constant identity crisis so I have no clue what his deal is.

Honorable mention Seagull?

I do believe 6WX is the current best.

 

[Rucent]

So recently I started to make a video detailing Sonic's match up agianst Mario. It's doing pretty good so far, and will be uploaded sometime in May. Thought I should mention it here as I did in other places. I do plan on doing more match up videos agianst other characters, but unless I get adobe after effects on my computer or get a computer more suitable for running it, future videos will end up being made in the Fall where I have access to after effects again.

At some point I will upload a rough cut of the video to see if anything is worth adding/changing before releasing to the rest of the world.

This does bring the question; will I still be doing the write ups I do on the match up thread? Yes. Progress may slow down if I do both things at once, but I love doing this stuff, and summer will help me be more active doing it all and playing the game in general.

Now that I said that.. How is everyone doing? I am preparing for a tournament called New Fish in May, one that will have Larry Lurr, MVD, Ally, Pugwest, and others there! It'll be my first regional, so I am pretty hyped about that! First time I can potentially be on stream! I aim on taking at least one big name in tournament. Wish me luck please!

 

[Sensane]

Cyb!rd actually followed me on twitter!

Also my Umbra Clock Tower poll on Smash Amino ended yesterday, and the winner is....

No one cared X(

Though it was actually pretty close between people who were in favor of and people who were against it.

 

[Sytal]

I would definitely want to see that Sonic/Mario MU video. Sounds interesting.

On another note, if we're still on the topic of Umbra, I noticed something the other day when I was viewing a match on that stage.
In one instance, one player was struck off the right side of the stage, and at that exact moment a moving solid platform flew in from the right, causing that player to be stage spiked by the platform on its way in.
I forget if the platforms are consistent in the order they come and leave, but that still seemed a little ridiculous. Any thoughts?

 

[PeliPenguin]

The only rule with the Umbra transformations is that the same one can't appear twice in one cycle. I prefer the more conservative stagelist of BF,FD,SV,TaC,Lylat and counterpicks of DH and DL. The likes of Delfino, Halberd and Umbra might be fun and CAN be played competitively but when it boils down to it I want the least amount of BS getting in the way.

If Umbra were to be legalised in the UK I would use the BANUMBRA tag, counterpick the stage at any opportunity and shamelessly time my opponents out regardless of who they were just to prove a point. But that probably isn't going to happen any time soon.

Also does anyone else here get burnt out at tournaments? First few hours I get there I play like a machine but then eventually, usually against high level players later on in the bracket I just lack the energy to play my best all the time. Any advice?

 

[_Silver_]

just your average Sonic, Tink, and Lucas main coming through

 

[The Merc]

just your average Sonic, Tink, and Lucas main coming through

Ah a Toon Link main. I used to play Toon Link. Then i stopped cause he felt funny and I missed Young Link. Now I'm playing him again and I enjoy him. Still miss Young Link

 

[_Silver_]

Ah a Toon Link main. I used to play Toon Link. Then i stopped cause he felt funny and I missed Young Link. Now I'm playing him again and I enjoy him. Still miss Young Link

meh.

He doesn't have good expressions like Toon Link does.

 

[jaimex2]

Honorable mention Seagull?

I do believe 6WX is the current best.

6WX wins on aggression, creativity and style alone. Not many Sonic's are as fun to watch.

Seagull Joe, well... https://youtu.be/H7xODbtrTQs?t=2m28s

 

[Sensane]

6WX wins on aggression, creativity and style alone. Not many Sonic's are as fun to watch.

Seagull Joe, well... https://youtu.be/H7xODbtrTQs?t=2m28s

What does that clip have to do with Seagull's Sonic? He still 2-0'd ZeRo at TBH5, so he's at least a top 5 Sonic.

 

[Rucent]

6WX wins on aggression, creativity and style alone. Not many Sonic's are as fun to watch.

Seagull Joe, well... https://youtu.be/H7xODbtrTQs?t=2m28s

Seagull Joe is good, but I believe people underestimate him because of Xanudu, along with how ZeRo was not in the best state of mind when Seagull beat him.

And everyone has those moments where they make mistakes like that, so I wouldn't put much emphasis on that.

Fun or not, I think every top level Sonic has some interesting quirk to them that makes watching them for improvement worth it.

 

[Sytal]

Also does anyone else here get burnt out at tournaments? First few hours I get there I play like a machine but then eventually, usually against high level players later on in the bracket I just lack the energy to play my best all the time. Any advice?

I have this problem too, though I tend to burn out much more quickly.
The only thing that's helped me so far is to practice playing hard for long periods at a time and drink lots of water. Energy drinks and the like tend to make my life worse in later matches.
I'm mostly involved in smaller and more local tournaments though, so I don't know what would be best for larger ones.

The only rule with the Umbra transformations is that the same one can't appear twice in one cycle.

Good to know. At least there's a method to the madness that is Umbra.

 

[Camalange]

Cyb!rd actually followed me on twitter!
View attachment 105553

Cybrid follows everyone. He'll most likely unfollow you at some point.

 

[Sensane]

Cybrid follows everyone. He'll most likely unfollow you at some point.

He already did :3

 

[jaimex2]

I have this problem too, though I tend to burn out much more quickly.

Get at least 8 hours of sleep the night before and take a 5 minute walk outside between games.
What you want to avoid is going into auto-pilot during matches so making your brain switch to something else helps.