Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[Espy Rose]

You're right. I gave it 3 minutes.
It's even worse than I thought. It's trash.

 

[The Merc]

I'm curious. What did you find bad about it? (especially since the theory doesn't actually start until around 4-5 mins into the video)

 

[Skyfox2000]

Bummed I couldn't close the set against ESAM. Ah well.

So far I've taken rounds off of ESAM, ANTi, and Vinnie... My day will come eventually.

Next time I'll go even further.

I've only seen the set against you and ESAM. I haven't seen the other ones. I think you did really well at Pound and I think you have an amazing Sonic. I always enjoy watching your Sonic and I personally think your one of the best Sonic's out there.

 

[The Merc]

Bummed I couldn't close the set against ESAM. Ah well.

So far I've taken rounds off of ESAM, ANTi, and Vinnie... My day will come eventually.

Next time I'll go even further.

I just watched the match today. Seemed like a tough one. Sorry that you lost though you went really well

 

[IvanQuote]

This is an amazing Sonic theory, you guys should check it out :O

I read a fanfiction where Sonic was (turned into) a robot once. From what I read, it was a partial copy of Gamma, mainly an excuse for ShadAmy, and Sonic died at the end.

 

[hypersonicJD]

Best fanfiction 10/10

LOL.

 

[Camalange]

I've only seen the set against you and ESAM. I haven't seen the other ones. I think you did really well at Pound and I think you have an amazing Sonic. I always enjoy watching your Sonic and I personally think your one of the best Sonic's out there.

Thank you! Glad you checked it out and enjoyed it. I'll keep improving, though.

I just watched the match today. Seemed like a tough one. Sorry that you lost though you went really well

Thanks, it wasn't easy but I have more to learn.

 

[IvanQuote]

Best fanfiction 10/10

LOL.

I'd say my least favorite parts of some fan fics are when characters are almost blatantly ooc. In another (Tails Doll related) fan fic, they had (the spirit of) Tikal, who in her brief appearance could hold her own in a snark off against Boom!Sonic. Another where random Sonic characters go on a road trip, Tails is an insufferable, alcoholic, un-housebroken brat. And the less said about "those" Garfield Crossover Fan Fictions, the better.

 

[Sytal]

Opinions coming, so take with a grain of salt. Someone once told me this, and I believe it pretty firmly.
-
There are only 3 kinds of fan fics: Bad, Worse, and 'Different.'
"Bad" fan fics make up the majority. Let's say, 70%. These are usually the ones where characters used are out of character, plots are weird and/or terrible, and our favorite OC original the character makes many an appearance. These are garbage.

"Different" fan fics make up the larger of the minority. About 10%-20%. These are the stories where characters don't break character as often, and (interesting)stuff happens that would almost NEVER happen in any actual canon for the characters. The better end of these FFs can have a somewhat believable plot that can be actually interesting. These are passable, and probably the better of the FFs.

"Worse" fan fics are referred to as such because the characters and plots of these stories are believable to the point that they almost feel like actually canon content.
Now I know this sounds somewhat paradoxal, but the problem with such stories is that the people who handle the real canon content tend to be pressured into not using certain story elements or ideas if they find that someone else has used them, even if its just the work of a fan. Mind you, this is NOT always the case as some developers are unafraid to jump on fan content, but I know I've heard developers say on more than one occasion that some content wasn't developed or finished because a fan beat them to using it, either in story or in gameplay.
-
Also, as a Sonic main and a Sonic fan, fan fics have done far too much damage to his reputation. This is primarily why I don't like them, though some are passable.
So there's my essay.

 

[Sensane]

Garfield crossover? Say what? If anything Sonic should cross with Tales of Xillia.

 

[IvanQuote]

Garfield crossover? Say what? If anything Sonic should cross with Tales of Xillia.

Not Garfield crossing over with Sonic. Garfield crossing over w/ Zero Dark 30, the British/American Revolution, Street Fighter, High School Musical, A Christmas Story, etc in a bunch of different stories.

In here, Garfield is portrayed as if he's the love child of James Bond and Duke Nukem: a perfect wise-cracking womanizing unstoppable force of truth justice and the American Way and lasagna. He sleeps with every woman he comes across (at the same time, regardless of whether they're married/taken, those men who object are villains). The stories go from weird to ludicrous at the drop of a hat and have really odd diction that overloads on adverbs. Also it gets disgusting with its use of innuendos during the..."bed scenes". It's good cringe material, but not so much otherwise.

If you really want to find it, look up the author on ff.net, "shakespeareHemmingway". Also, it's unknown whether he's a troll or not, because he sounds genuinely serious with these stories.

 

[Sensane]

Oh thank Martel, but it's still pretty dumb.

 

[Espy Rose]

Fanfiction can work out really well if the writer isn't a complete moron about the universe they're using.
Archie Sonic is pretty much fanfiction at its finest in the Sonic franchise.

 

[Sytal]

Fanfiction can work out really well if the writer isn't a complete moron about the universe they're using.
Archie Sonic is pretty much fanfiction at its finest in the Sonic franchise.

Except that Archie is partnered with Sega to create license-able merchandice for the series. I mean, it isn't really 'fan fiction' if its technically a part of the canon universe (along with tv series and spin offs), right?
I mean, if Archie had done a total fanfiction w/out Sega's involvement and still made it as good as it is, it would have been a fanfic done right, if not one that potentially took away from the actual series.
I think its important that Archie and Sega are working together, since it means there is potential for Archie comics to work with Sega's games. I dunno, maybe even help write storylines?
After this recent Archie comics lawsuit though, I doubt that'll happen. Especially since Sega recently had Archie comics permanently change a lot of things in their comic to fit certain parameters.

 

[The Merc]

I've read a few good fan pics before.

Though they were Fire Emblem ones

 

[Espy Rose]

Except that Archie is partnered with Sega to create license-able merchandice for the series. I mean, it isn't really 'fan fiction' if its technically a part of the canon universe (along with tv series and spin offs), right?
I mean, if Archie had done a total fanfiction w/out Sega's involvement and still made it as good as it is, it would have been a fanfic done right, if not one that potentially took away from the actual series.
I think its important that Archie and Sega are working together, since it means there is potential for Archie comics to work with Sega's games. I dunno, maybe even help write storylines?
After this recent Archie comics lawsuit though, I doubt that'll happen. Especially since Sega recently had Archie comics permanently change a lot of things in their comic to fit certain parameters.

Hey Cam, this is why my activity in this thread has dwindled.

 

[Sytal]

Hey Cam, this is why my activity in this thread has dwindled.

I'm not trying to shut anyone down or anything like that.
Sorry?

 

[IvanQuote]

I blame myself for everything.

 

[Sytal]

I just have strong opinions on stuff, so I sometimes jump a little too fast.
My fault.

 

[Syndralix]

 

[Sensane]

I got bored and saw Mr. R's Sheik mu spread on Twitter and decided to make my own for Sonic:

Oh yeah, and btw, I have a Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/TSNecromancRr

Edit: Move Robin down to Advantage

 

[The Merc]

I got bored and saw Mr. R's Sheik mu spread on Twitter and decided to make my own for Sonic:
View attachment 104447
Oh yeah, and btw, I have a Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/TSNecromancRr

Edit: Move Robin down to Advantage

Luigi and Kirby seem a bit low.

Though i can understand where you are coming from with Robin

Also Bayo even for Sonic?

 

[Syndralix]

View attachment 104447

How in the world does Sonic beat Olimar? Every Olimar I meet on For Glory curb-stomps me.

 

[Sensane]

Luigi and Kirby seem a bit low.

Though i can understand where you are coming from with Robin

Also Bayo even for Sonic?

Luigi's mobility is just trash both in the air and on the ground, and we can cover that very well. He'd be in minor advantage if he was never nerfed.
With Kirby I have never faced a Kirby that has even taken a stock off of my Sonic unless if I made a mistake or SD'd.
Bayo I'm actually not 100% sure tbh but when I faced Bayo at OUTFOXX'D I had significantly less trouble fighting her with Sonic than I did Pit, which must imply something in the mu (especially since I narrowly escaped a Witch Time punish just by turning in my spin dash).

How in the world does Sonic beat Olimar? Every Olimar I meet on For Glory curb-stomps me.

1. Y U on For Glory, boi?
2. Spin dash decimates the Pikmin, especially down b. And his recovery is susceptible to stage spikes, which is something that we're good at, and we can give him little to no room to farm pikmin, especially on stages like FD and possibly Lylat and SV.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Sonic doesn't really fear Witch Time unless he goes for obvious Smashes or Bairs.
Bayo has problems chasing Sonic.
If you're away from her, stay outside her ABDK range and you'll do just fine.
If you're close, always prefer to grab her than to attack her, but be aware of Witch Twist.
Spindash for punishes.
ALWAYS Bait her moves.
Don't go for unwarranted Uthrow followups, she'll just escape from them.
Sonic can escape some of her combos with the Spring.

This is one of the matchups I think she goes even or probably loses.

 

[The Merc]

Luigi's mobility is just trash both in the air and on the ground, and we can cover that very well. He'd be in minor advantage if he was never nerfed.
With Kirby I have never faced a Kirby that has even taken a stock off of my Sonic unless if I made a mistake or SD'd.
Bayo I'm actually not 100% sure tbh but when I faced Bayo at OUTFOXX'D I had significantly less trouble fighting her with Sonic than I did Pit, which must imply something in the mu (especially since I narrowly escaped a Witch Time punish just by turning in my spin dash).

But Luigi does have a lot of combos tho

Then personally I don't think they were very good Kirby since there is a lot that the little puff ball can do. Though One thing Sonic might have an advantage over is edge guard, particular if you can get them to waste there multi jumps

 

[Sensane]

Then personally I don't think they were very good Kirby since there is a lot that the little puff ball can do. Though One thing Sonic might have an advantage over is edge guard, particular if you can get them to waste there multi jumps

No, they were good alright; most of them were able to destroy my Pit.

 

[The Merc]

No, they were good alright; most of them were able to destroy my Pit.

Oh. Well maybe then they didn't know the Sonic match up

 

[Sytal]

Kirby's my secondary, and let me tell you, it is a struggle to fight other Sonics.
But its only difficult if you don't have the speed down. Once you do, it gets easier to punish, and the match can get evened out pretty fast; you won't be getting out of Kirby's combo game easily.

Not to mention the homing attack copy ability helps keep the other player off their beat.
That's why its so much fun to play as him against other Sonics - Its like I never stopped playing as Sonic!
Except he's slow. Yeah.

That, and Monado Kirby is FUN.

 

[PeliPenguin]

I got bored and saw Mr. R's Sheik mu spread on Twitter and decided to make my own for Sonic:
View attachment 104447
Oh yeah, and btw, I have a Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/TSNecromancRr

Edit: Move Robin down to Advantage

We definitely don't beat Ike and Falcon is debatable as being even. I also don't think we lose to Villager. Ryu and Pacman are slightly in our favour and Palutena is only a minor advantage at best.

I also think DK is a harder mu than Bowser. Fox probably beats us as well.

I'd explain all these but I don't want to write more essays. I might drop a mu chart later.

 

[Sensane]

We definitely don't beat Ike and Falcon is debatable as being even. I also don't think we lose to Villager. Ryu and Pacman are slightly in our favour and Palutena is only a minor advantage at best.

I also think DK is a harder mu than Bowser. Fox probably beats us as well.

I'd explain all these but I don't want to write more essays. I might drop a mu chart later.

Yeah I guess that Falcon is more even, but I've never had trouble against an Ike or Fox player. I understand why people think differently about those matchups, but remember that this is my opinion.
Also these characters are actually placed in no particular order.
As for Palutena, I actually meant to place her in minor advantage, but I must've missed that XP. My B.

 

[PeliPenguin]

O.K some of the less obvious ones I'm going to explain.

I think is only 60:40 because of hard he can get camped, especially on stages with platforms. If you decide to engage him its probably 55:45.

I put as slightly in our favour due to our better damage racking and ability to KO. I feel like his combos are overrated because everytime I get dthrowed the max damage I'll take is around 25 and thats only at mid %, a lot of his moves seem to have low hitstun at low% which means his combo game isn't too threatening. Also his kill moves are pretty telegraphed and he can't even KO you with an aerial sans Fair meteor which is slow, while we have at least a few gimmicks to get KOs.

is higher than the other heavies because he's the only one with an easy way to end Sonic with his ding dong, which is strictly better than 's uthrow uair. He also has better spacing options against Sonic with dtilt and bair whilst the other heavies have to commit more than him.

's buffs make him absolutely terrifying. His movement speed means he can now catch Sonic's landings better and also lets him get grabs easier, which can kill us fairly early. He forces our approach with Shadow Ball, can space with dtilt and generally forces us to be careful or we die really early. His low weight isn't as easy to exploit with Sonic as our strong moves that can kill him at 80 are difficult to land. Its definitely even.

is fairly overrated in my opinion, not enough people are exploiting his weaknesses and doing that is the only way to make fighting him manageable. If you don't exploit his weaknesses he murders Sonic and if he didn't have them it'd easily be in his favour.

Putting as 55:45 is mostly because I think she is underrated, charge shot is really hard to deal with which I think puts it only slightly in our favour.

I also don't think Sonic has any 40:60 mus, I think the way his character is designed around mix ups and forcing openings you're more likely to struggle against the opponent than the character they're using. Additionally he has ways to get around his bad mus which makes me think he doesn't get stomped by or like some people think.

The only mus I'm not really familiar with are ,, and the Miis obviously, but I don't think my ratios on those three characters are too inaccurate.

These mus are my opinion so feel free to disagree, its interesting to see other Sonic main's perception on the matter.

IMPORTANT EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST: http://strawpoll.me/7415255/ Please vote no Umbra is a dumb stage and should not be legalised on Anthers seeing most sensible rulesets ban it.

 

[Sensane]

My mu scores weren't scored at all lol, but I respect your reasonings

 

[Camalange]

Hey Cam, this is why my activity in this thread has dwindled.

I'm not trying to shut anyone down or anything like that.
Sorry?

I think Espy's point is that you said it's good that Archie and SEGA are working together, but SEGA still has sharp ties on what Archie can and can't do, so what exactly is SEGA offering other than giving material for Archie to rework? I don't think it's as symbiotic of a relationship as you'd hope.

Also, the Archie universe has little to no effect on the game universe, so I don't think that can constitute as "canon" as you imply. RIP Scourge.

The Archie comics are great, but it's its own universe. I also doubt SEGA would ever actually let Archie be involved with a game's script, but it's not impossible. Archie is better at it, so...

I got bored and saw Mr. R's Sheik mu spread on Twitter and decided to make my own for Sonic:
View attachment 104447
Oh yeah, and btw, I have a Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/TSNecromancRr

Edit: Move Robin down to Advantage

Here's mine from before the most recent patch:

My current opinion on Sonic's match-up spread.

I saw these going around and decided I'd take a stab at it. pic.twitter.com/9vFY6l3xLT

— Camalange (@Camalange) March 15, 2016

 

[Sytal]

I never meant to imply that the series had any game canon.
I guess its a bit difficult to explain what I was getting at.
Umm, Sorta like the Sonic OVA I guess? Its not canon to the games, but it is officially licensed by Sega, meaning that it should exist somewhere in the STH multi-verse. Right?
I dunno.
If I'm not making sense here, whatever. I'll drop it.

RIP Scourge.

That just hit me, Scourge is basically gone for good now with that lawsuit. I may need to check out what other characters got the perma-axe as well.

 

[The Merc]

IMPORTANT EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST: http://strawpoll.me/7415255/ Please vote no Umbra is a dumb stage and should not be legalised on Anthers seeing most sensible rulesets ban it.

Haven't played on the stage yet, so I can't say

 

[PeliPenguin]

You only have to LOOK at the stage to be able to tell its really dumb. I'm shocked that people want to see the stage legal. The platforms are always in awkward positions that make camping really effective and pretty much nullifying the existence of Ganon and Little Mac. I kinda wish they didn't patch out the QAC on the stage so we'd have more reason to ban it. Not to mention temporary walk offs and caves of life which scream jank. On top of this the stagelist is fine as it is so adding it feels unnecessary. I could maybe understand it for the 3DS version since that has less competitive stages so they can take what they can get.

I'm pretty sure this stage is only allowed in a few American weeklies and Texas (which also has Delfino and Halberd lol) so it says a lot about the legality of the stage.

But what else can you expect from 5.99: the stage.

Also I feel like I'd have to test uthrow and bthrow kill% and it'd basically be impossible because of the erratic movement of the platforms.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Umbra is a legit stage. All that camping lasts for like 10 seconds and then the camper loses all position advantage and is forced to recover.
Also, having another stage as big as Battlefield (which is the odd corner at this point) is a nice balance.

The only phase with COL is the shortest one with the rock passing by for ~8 seconds. Hardly abusable.
The other semi-COL happens below the main area, falling into the "camp zones" I already covered.

idk, I think I'm simply way more patient than the average and don't mind waiting, not attacking, or timeouts.

 

[Sensane]

Imo the only platform variation I'm concerned with is the one that has a platform really close to the blast lines, but aside from that it's fine. I'm kinda neutral to Umbra's legalization, but then again I need to play on the stage again at some point. Esam said that it's a little better than Castle Siege in terms of competetive design, but I've camped and been outcamped infinitely more in a match on Duck Hunt or FD than five whole matches on Umbra.

Also I feel like I'd have to test uthrow and bthrow kill% and it'd basically be impossible because of the erratic movement of the platforms.

I could do it for you and leave it at percent ranges; I don't carry my weight around here like I do on the Pit boards anyway.

 

[The Merc]

You only have to LOOK at the stage to be able to tell its really dumb. I'm shocked that people want to see the stage legal. The platforms are always in awkward positions that make camping really effective and pretty much nullifying the existence of Ganon and Little Mac. I kinda wish they didn't patch out the QAC on the stage so we'd have more reason to ban it. Not to mention temporary walk offs and caves of life which scream jank. On top of this the stagelist is fine as it is so adding it feels unnecessary. I could maybe understand it for the 3DS version since that has less competitive stages so they can take what they can get.

I'm pretty sure this stage is only allowed in a few American weeklies and Texas (which also has Delfino and Halberd lol) so it says a lot about the legality of the stage.

But what else can you expect from 5.99: the stage.

Also I feel like I'd have to test uthrow and bthrow kill% and it'd basically be impossible because of the erratic movement of the platforms.

But Delfino Plaza has walk offs which is a big no no but everyone seems fine with that because they are temporary.