Kinzer
Mammy
Have this music play in the background while you read this guide!
Hey everybody, Kinzer (the Hedgehog) here, with a proposition for the entire Sonic boards' frequenters/lurkers/contributors alike!
I was up one night, thinking that by now a couple other boards have this same thing going on, so why not do this myself?!
The purpose of those threads was to give a general idea of what other characters mesh well with the main character in a team battle or not, this one will be no exception.
I want to have a thread dedicated in the Sonic boards that from my standing, finally helps the board further strive to become the ultimate community, and what better to do it than with the "REAL SUPER AWESOME POWER OF TEAMWORK?!"
So with the introduction done, let's get to what you're in this thread for.
Sonic was announced for Super Smash Bros. Brawl quite a long time ago. While many have prayed for and anticipated his arrival, Nintendo didn't exactly give the Sega mascot much good attributes, later which to be discovered in the game. To make matters worse, he joined the fray alone, without his buddy Tails or his friendly-nemesis Knuckles, to help him. To this day, a select number have dedicated themselves to the Blue Blur, so not all hope is lost.
Those few, those who are proud to stay, they will indirectly assist Sonic by unlocking his full potential and guiding Sonic to his fullest. Those people...are humans. We have stuck with Sonic through the thick and thin, and we shall continue to do so for a very long time, but as you might know, some have chosen to play other characters on the Brawl roster, and that's fine! Everybody is entitled to play their favorite character, but can we form alliances to help the cause? You betc'ya!
As a group, we want to find out that who do we get along with the best, at least not with our old pals here to assist us. So is Sonic truly on his own, or might we be able to find new allies in the least expected places? That is to be found out to a later date, when this guide is finished for good and you read through the material. I want to let you know though that even if a character does not theoretically work on paper, it is possible to make things keep on truckin' if you work hard enough.
I won't be able to keep this thread alive alone. I'll give everybody the steps necessary to advance. It is up to you as the wise reader, to further improve this guide in the making by helping me out in any way, it's always appreciated. This is not limited to just finding typos in the guide, it could be posting your 2cents, new dieas no one else has come up with, etc.
I might run out of ideas for character hints, if you want to suggest a character for next time, please send me a PM with a hint for the character as well as the answer, I might just use it! :bigthumbu
Also people if you're going to suggest me a character, make the effort to private message me what you want for the next character! If you suggested I do a new character before I get done with whoever IN THE WIDE OPEN PUBLIC TO VIEW!!! I have to skip them for another time because other people would be expecting who it is and it only makes my job of putting up hints more difficult! Please understand I'm no nerdy dungeon master where I can make riddles hard/fun/somewhat easy to figure out at the same time, so if you let me have my options open, it makes it somewhat easier. Thank you for your cooperation.
I'll be taking any ideas, comments, etc. For example, what do you want to be seen in this thread? What information must be added to make this plan credible? Is it a bust or something like "why the Hell didn't somebody come up with this sooner?!" Project "Sonic Heroes" seems to be all Green lights on Green Hill Zone, let's do it!
Warning!: If you happen to figure out the character, I don't want to hear any complaining from anybody that they didn't get it right or didn't get it first, nor do I want to hear anybody gloating everybody else that they were "smarter than the rest." If I see this, I'm going to drop the hint sections and just skip straight to the next character. Remember, we all like to have fun, don't ruin it! You jerks out there know who you are!
For every character, usually you would want to follow this guideline. Extra content is fine too, I could possibly use it as well!
General Compatibility - In your opinion, how do you think these two would work, this is usually just your general thought.
Risks - What danger does this character prove to Sonic? Mistakes will happen, better learn now to try and reduce the chance of slip-ups.
Dependency - Just how much will you two have to do to make this work out? Does this character have like a poor recovery where you have to help him a lot? Or is there something like due to a characters weakness, you will have to go out of your way to make up for them yourself?
Strength in Numbers - What reason could you possibly have to use this character over another, is there something about the character that makes them shine above all others?
Compatibility Summary - Simply put, if you had to give a TL/DR version of what you said, how would you say it? To go with this, give a rating on a scale of 1 to 10.
Stages of Preference - You two want to find a stage where you guys can further increases your odds of winning, and depending on your partner can vary greatly. This part will give you an idea of where to go!
Double Agent Contracts - Not necessary your partner turning on you, but rather what you could be expecting if you saw this character on the opponent's team. You might as well make sure what to expect from Sonic's perspective.
If anybody might have anything else to add to this, feel free to do so.
If any information about the characters is incorrect or otherwise misleading, please feel free to point it out, and if it really needs a-fixin', It will be taken care of.
Alright people, let's get to work, but remember to hold your chin high!
Hint for character #1!
*Hmph.* "You're skinny, but maybe the brothel can use you..."
It's the G-man, and he's pimping! However, are we his ho or are we partners in crime?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Ganondorf on his own can hold hid own ground. While he may not have a lot of good matchups, he more than makes up for it by being able to hit hard, and having a dangerous tech chase from Flame Choke. No matter who you are, if Ganon has some good mindgame tricks, you're in for a ride.
General Compatibility - With Ganondorf, it's really tricky. He has the K.O. power you lack, a better setup game, he can take a real beating, and some of his attacks have deceiving lag. You have the maneuverability, multi-hit moves, better damage-output with your flexibility, and a near perfect recovery. Both you and Ganon are capable of a lot of things! While some think that they are right where they belong, they can become the underdogs and make a comeback you wouldn't expect them to!
Risks/Partner Dependency - While I think opposites attract, this can sometimes be different than expected. You two will have to be highly coordinated with one another not to get into each other's business. Making a lot of whiffed attacks is going to cost both you and your partner. Sonic isn't exactly heavy, so if for whatever reason Ganon mistimes an attack or spaces it incorrectly, you're going to be flying off the screen faster than you can walk Final Destination. Ganon can also take a lot of hurt, but he is also a big target. You can't really be aggressive when he's around or else you will accidentally hit him. Ganon pays a price for being so heavy...anybody who is really good at gimping recoveries will give Ganon trouble.
Strength in Numbers - As I said before, while Ganon has some glaring weaknesses and strengths, if you two are really comfortable with working with each other, you two will work as efficient as a machine. You two can cover for one another! Now let's take for example the setups from Ganon's Flame Choke. You can place yourself to strike the poor unfortunate soul who happened to get caught, and without worry of sending Ganon flying due to the Super Armor frames if you hit Ganon by accident! He isn't the only one who can make kills if you work for it, and with him helping you, it only makes this combo all the more beautiful if all goes according to plan. Another extreme example would be Ganon's poor recovery, if you can save him, you won't have too much worry about messing up your guys' groove, just make sure that Ganon isn't going to try to use any of his specials or you might just make things worse for yourselves. Best wait to make that he won't already make it back on his own.
Partnership Summary - Due to a community median, I have decided to rate this Partnership a 5.5/10. There are more efficient partners Sonic can recruit, but just because that is such a low number does not mean that having Ganon for a candidate is out of the question! It's mostly "Ying-Yang" here. If your partner knows Ganon and Sonic, this can and will work out just great!
Stages of Preference - You two need a lot of space to work with, or if you are great with synchronization, go somewhere with medium size. Battlefield/Yoshi's Island is probably your best choice for Neutrals, and Delfino Plaza/Pirate Ship can work just A-OK!
Double Agent Contracts - Approaching a defensive Ganon is tough, especially when he can auto-cancel 3/5 of his aerials. Wiz Kick will... kick you out of any direct approaches if you aren't quick enough to expect it. Beware the Choke. USmash has some very misleading IASA frames, so if you're thinking ocharging Ganon while you may think he is laggy, expect to be jabbed away if you're too slow. At least at about 90+% you can hit Ganon out of his Dark Dive with maybe an Uair, first hit/s of Fair, and maybe Nair, though don't hold me on that.
Special thanks goes to Hyperstation, Twilight Prince, and SaltyKracka who spoke on Ganondorf's behalf!
Hint for character #2!
*Eye Twitch.*
Although we won't have sex with him...or her...or it...can we still make this work out? (WTH is this thing anyway?!)
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Kirby is similar to Sonic in the sense that Kirby has a better recovery than a chunk of the cast, lacking K.O. moves (I'll explain that later), and is a very interesting character. Kirby has the ability to suck in opponents and "steal" their abilities and use them against his opponents...or in this case he can Suck-up Sonic for his Homing Attack. Depending on what the situation calls for, Kirby can either keep himself available (again, to be explained later), or use the copied abilities to turn the tables.
General Compatibility - As I said before, Kirby is like a Sonic without the speed and maneuverability, but Kirby has way more combo potential from its setups, especially at low percentages! Also mentioned before was that Kirby didn't have a lot of K.O. moves, well that's not necessarily true. While Kirby does have a rather huge arsenal of things to do, some of them just require a lot of commitment to them. Stone when high up in the air is hard to not see coming, Smash attacks have lag after performed, and Kirby's Hammer is both slow on startup and recovery when grounded, but when in the air can reduce lag, become a two-hit move, and can weave with it a little bit at the cost of power.
Risks/Partner Dependency - While Kirby is more than capable of holding ground, Kirby is rather very light and vulnerable when recovering, meaning Kirby will die insanely early. Kirby's recovery is better than others in distance terms, but it's easy to see where he will be going, and he doesn't have any huge hitbox attacks to protect him/her/itself in the air. You'll probably have to make your partner's opponent distracted just to make sure that Kirby doesn't get gimp K.O.ed. Now with a team like this, you two won't be getting kills very early, and neither of you have a real projectile (this isn't including the beam from Grounded Final Cutter, or without Kirby sucking up somebody), so any fight will be long and drawn out, it's even worse when you two will have to approach your opponent.
Strength in Numbers - Kirby's copy ability is reason enough to pick Kirby over others. It's fun when you two are on the Blue team and he sucks you up, gaining your quills! That's just Sonic, get somebody like R.O.B., and Kirby will have his own freaking Shoop-Da-Whoop Lazah Beams pewpewpew!!! But seriously folks Sonic and Kirby are a good combo when they want to be. Kirby is a small target, so with the few hits that do connect on Kirby, they won't be killing Kirby so long as Kirby doesn't take anything with any bit of K.O. power. Kirby also happens to be a great aerial fighter when the opponent is the one recovering. Kirby also has the gimps.
Partnership Summary - Deemed by the community, Sonic & Kirby receive a 7.5/10 grading. Now while Kirby is a great partner to have, he still has room for improvement. Go nuts on the offensive, you two are built to harass your opponents! If you don't believe me, look at his taunts man, it's annoying for your opponents when you two decide to break-dance! That's just one example of annoying taunts, Kirby can keep squatting down and Sonic can yell "You're too slow!", and you know what that leads too...? Eh, well I'll let you figure that out on your own. (hehe, man do I keep busting out the sexual Innuendoes, don't I? Don't worry ladies, I'm better in person, should you ever get to meet me *wink wink*) Alright, but enough fooling around, got to stay focused!!
Stages of Preference - Go to a map where you two are going to be fighting in close quarters, I suggest you go to Smashville (TN) for neutrals, and for counterpick stages you should go to Castle Siege or Frigate Orpheon if you're feeling confident about your recovery.
Double Agent Contracts - Kirby can cypher grab you with his swallow ability. So long as does not do damage, you will be in the air-tripped stage, and you will be unable to recover. Kirby can be a jerk when recovery, since none of your recoveries are really safe. That's right, he has things like Bair/Nair/Dair/Swallow/Fair to hit you out of things like HAs or Spring if you get predictable. That's just in the air, don't get me started on his optinos from the very edge of the stage of you get that predictable.
Credit goes to Asdioh for giving some input on Kirby...and Suspect along with MK26 for helping me remember that Kirby is still a character in SSBB...
Hint for character #3!
"Need I say more?"
It's Ike, and he's listening to some good music for BBoyin', anyway just how much sympathy will we get with him?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Ike is a killing machine! Most if not all of his attacks have some kind of K.O. power behind them, some you wouldn't expect to K.O. really! Ike is even faster than a lot would expect him to be for such a powerhouse. I can already tell you right now that Ike fights for his friends big time, I'll explain why Sonic and Ike are such a deadly combo.
General Compatibility - As I said before, Ike has a lot of power behind his attacks, don't be surprised if you see your opponents flying everywhere, even if they aren't Meta Knight. Ike is also similar to Sonic in the way that he is an underdog can make a huge comeback from what would appear to be a lost cause. While he has no real setups and only one true combo (to my knowledge), he doesn't really need that stuff if he is good with mindgames, just as Ganondorf was. While I make him seem like an improved Ganondorf, he does come with some drawbacks...
Risks/Partner Dependency - For one thing, I do make him look fast, but he still is a slow character at heart. A majority of his attacks all have some kind of lag behind them, take his FSmash for example. Ike can kill at stupid-low percentages, but this means that if you take a good hit from Ike, you won't be coming back. Even Ganondorf isn't as strong as Ike in general (that's up for debate). Speaking of Ganondorf, Ike doesn't have a good recovery either...or should I say Aether? Regardless, Ike's recovery is so easy to mess up, that if your opponent gets a nice hit on Ike, like Wolf's DSmash, he isn't coming back unless you bust your butt and try to save him with Uairs. What also stinks about Ike is that once an opponent in inside of him (not sexually, I mean that literally), he can't get them out! Ike may have some fast attacks, but somehow Nintendo did a good job of making Ike's attacks slow enough where if he is fighting anybody with quick-frame moves and/or with little knockback, he will be easily comboed. Not even his "Counter" is fast enough to get them out of his uncomfortable zone... King D3 also has a nasty D-Throw CG on the both of you, so if you can try and stop D3 from doing that mess on Ike.
Strength in Numbers - You want to go with Ike because he has the Range and the Power you don't have, as well as some Quick moves. I shouldn't have said that Ganon was "weaker" than Ike, but instead mention that Ike has the best non-disjointed/projectile reach, and for as speedy as he is shouldn't have the power behind some of his attacks. Sonic also works so great as a decoy for your opponents, they'll be so focused on you that they won't notice Ike sneaking around waiting for an opportunity. Speaking of which, you both are opportunists and rely on being close to your opponent while keeping a distance.
Partnership Summary - You two complete each other, yet have the same playstyles, therefore there is little to no argument that this team gets a grading of 8/10. Ike is really bad offstage, has no projectile, and is a slow character. If he had some tweaks, he would be a solid character...well, moreso anyway. Work together, know your teammate, and you two are like a flying fortress.
Stages of Preference - Bring you and your teammate somewhere where opponents will die faster than usual. It will be impossible for the both of you to not kill your opponents or be killed due to just barely missing the ledge, you two are great for living a long while, what with Ike's weight and your stellar recovery. Battlefield/Yoshi's Island/Lylat Cruise are all decent neutrals, and Castle Siege/Green Greens/Corneria are great Counterpicks. You have a lot of options to work with, lay waste to your opponents wherever you prefer!
Double Agent Contracts - Well, if you just blindly charge in, you're going to get jabbed/Naired/Faired/FSmashed. Time your approaches against him, since you don't have a projectile he will be camping unless your partner has something to force him to come to you. Anyway if you are approaching an Ike, learn his habits/timing, and you should be able to get around and inside him. All of his moves, except maybe his throws, are going to kill, and he has enough time to buffer a DA from his B-Throw, so if you can I would try to DI down so you can put up a shield before that happens. If he tries to recover, just drop a Spring on him, his recovery is so one-way that a simple projectile interception will force him to keep going back to square one.
Credit goes to Nidtendofreak, Xanthyr, and... *drum roll*... MYSELF OMG!, for representing Ike as their best friend and giving this guide some sympathy.
Hint for character #4!
*Beep bop boop boup be ba!*
He has to improvise with an umbrella since I took away his pan, but he's not too mad to work well with us... right?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Mr. Game & Watch is a strange character, no doubt about it. If you take the time to read the matchup between him and Sonic, you will know that a way to describe him would be "a slower/lighter Sonic with K.O. potential, a safer recovery, spammable moves, and just really hard to deal with." Next to Meta Knight, it is debatable that Mr. G&W has the best overall matchup ratios, so while he may literally look like paper... on paper, his capabilities are to not be underestimated.
General Compatibility - Mr. Game & Watch is everything Sonic is and more! He has Kill moves that if done right will kill you at around the 80-120% range...even if you're somebody as heavy as Ike. Sonic needs not to worry about Mr. G&W at all, he can handle one on one fight just as well as you can if not better, and he can do more than show some stoicism when he is against two opponents all by himself.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Get comfortable... Mr. Game & Watch is probably the most independent character you can find for a partner. His recovery only slightly covers less vertical distance than your Spring, but if he keeps the parachute up he will cover more horizontal range than you. Mr. Game & Watch is going to have to be outright killed to not make it back to the stage... which remind me that I have to tell you that he is a VERY LIGHT CHARACTER! To be exact, he only weights more than Jigglypuff... he will be getting K.O.ed really early, but that's only the "aggressive" G&Ws. according to a wise-man, a person who has mastered Game & Watch is not going to let himself open... and with his moveset, that is really hard to do. Take his Smashes for example, they have instant charge release, has IASA frames everywhere, and be spammed again and again! While Game & Watch is light, he still won't get killed anytime soon unless he makes a miSteak or the opponent is just that good... That's his only stand-out weakness.
Strength in Numbers - Certain characters' projectiles are made null by G&W, take for example Mario's Fireballs which Mr. G&W can bucket them. To make things more problematic for his opponents, if they get careless and let him bucket two more projectiles, and Mr. G&W becomes a serious threat. Oil Panic has a lot of knockback even from just eating up three Fireballs which are weak in damage and knockback. You two can handle yourselves fine, and you two can be a dangerous threat when you two work together, so there's no worry of messing up anywhere! One last thing to note is that you know that small percentage you have of not being able to make it back onstage from a pseudo-helpless state after a Spring and you're JUST A LITTLE BIT TOO SHORT FOR EVEN A FOOTSTOOL? Well Mr. Game & Watch can just drop down and use his Uair on you, which will do no damage to you, and push you up in the air. What's even more handy about this is that it refreshes G&Ws moves if the windbox hits you, making G&Ws kill moves pose even more of a threat again!
Partnership Summary - The only thing that could make this team build any better than 9.5 out of 10, was if you yourself had more kill-potential in your moves, and if G&W wasn't so susceptible to power characters like Charizard or Bowser. Even then, you two still are fast, blasts from the past, and have good attribute everywhere.
Stages of Preference - Play any way you want, anywhere you want, it doesn't matter! Game & Watch has no bad stages, and the stages he does best on, you do too! Well... to be honest, you might want to go with stages that have some blastzones that are far away so you two won't be getting killed off quickly... but that's up to you. Whether you two want to risk getting killed quickly and killing your opponents faster, or the other way around with you two being able to live for a long time and the same going for your opponents.
Double Agent Contracts -One of Sonic's hardest matchups, and for good reasoning! I highly suggest that if your partner has an easier time with G&W, you let him/her work on G&W while you focus on whoever else. If you are left with no choice but to fight G&W, you will have to constantly be exploiting weakpoints in the G&W player's game, and always be picking the right moment to attack with the right attack. Do not let fill up a bucket if it can be done, sure filling it up has a bit of lag, but he can kill you with that stupid thing. If you can shield through the whole turtle if he does this with you, no matter how safe you mgiht think it may be to drop your shield, until G&W hits the floor it always has a hitbox.
Credit goes to A2ZOMG(!!) for coming to this thread to speak on behalf of G&W, and Hylian for at least...being Hylian in the announcement thread back at the respective character board...did not get too much input this time, but no problem. I'd say more but this is going off-track from what I should be doing...
Hint for character #5!
*Bzzzt*
Well, that's not really R.O.B., but do you think we could hack that thing's internal mainframe system to be compatible with us?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - R.O.B. is a machine built back before I was even born in 1992. Why Nintendo decided to put him in Brawl is beyond me, but that's all gone and pass now. What matters right now is that you need to know that R.O.B has a playstyle that will generally deal damage at a distance while being able to fend off his opponents with hard-hitting attacks.
General Compatibility - Let me tell you some things before I tell you the compatibility of these two. R.O.B. has two things to deal damage from afar, his Lasers and Gyros. The Lazer is something that charges itself as time goes by, as well has possessing two forms. A single weak lazer, and after it has been fully charge will fire a double lazer with noticeable knockback. The second tool he has is a projectile known as a Gyro (if you know what a Beyblade looks like in real life and how it works, it's the same thing). A Gyro can be manually charged, can be released immediately from its charge, and depending on how long it has been charged, if it is thrown at you and you are at a high percentage, will kill you. Now while R.O.B. can only have one Gyro on the field at a time, he can use it as a means to get around, or he can leave it on the ground and let it deal damage to anybody who touches it. Alright now I'm going to be completely honest with you here, Sonic and R.O.B. are not going to mix together well. The playstyles both characters have to offer just get in the way of one another. Sonic works his magic up close and personal with his opponents, while R.O.B. will try and keep his opponents away from him to avoid damage and dish it out at the same time. Now while this might seem fine, it doesn't work when you apply friendly fire...
Risks/Partner Dependency - The chances you take with R.O.B. are high. R.O.B.'s lazer goes right through anything, and in this case if you happen to be on the path of the lazer, it will stun you or send you flying depending on which lazer it is. Hey, chin up pal, look on the bright side! If you have seen DragonBall Z, it's like that one time where Goku(Sonic) grabbed an opponent and held him right there for Piccolo(R.O.B.) for fire a lazer beam from his Fingers(Eyes) to take out two birds with one stone! Getting back to reality now, another problem you're going to have to deal with is worrying about the Gyro. I've already stated what it does, just apply that knowledge to yourself and your opponents, and you got a double-edged sword. Now something you should know that I have yet to mention is that R.O.B. is not that good of a Melee fighter unless he was prepared for it... with the exception of his Nair, he has blindspots on a lot of his aerials. As for the ground, R.O.B. is better, but the lag on his attacks is punishable. One more thing I have to mention (when does it stop?!) is that R.O.B may have a decent recovery, but it requires fuel. If R.O.B. can't make it back to the stage, he will eventually run out of supplies and just drop to the blastzone like a rock. Characters like Meta Knight can prowl him offstage, because R.O.B. also can't airdodge out of his recovery without dropping out of it or initiating an attack.
Strength in Numbers - Now we get to the reasons why you want to bring R.O.B. to your team... well he doesn't have many things going for him when you pair him up with us. Ignoring the double-edged stuff, R.O.B. is okay at killing. His F/B-Throws come out fast and have decent knockback, and his U-Throw (Piledriver!) is nice for scoring Star K.O.s, and I guess his D-Throw can help you follow up with an aerial just like your D-Throw can set up an opponent to eat a direct hit from R.O.B.'s U/FSmash. Heck you can even use F-Throw and there will be enough hitstun for R.O.B. to follow up with an aerial of his own. Another good thing he can do is use a weak lazer to refresh your pseudo-helplessness state from out of a Spring, allowing you to recover with it again. Also worthy of mention is that should you be killed off and R.O.B. is left alone to fight, he can handle a 2vs1 situation just as well as you can!
Partnership Summary - I feel like I omitted some things in this right-up, however if I did, it still won't change the team rating... Sonic and R.O.B. get a 3.5/10 just because R.O.B.'s attacks will harm you as well as your opponents. R.O.B. is going to have to play according to your actions so that he doesn't get in your way, which means R.O.B. won't be able to play as efficiently... this is not good, since he literally is a piece of technology.
Stages of Preference - It is really difficult to find a stage that makes it good for the both of you to perform on. You need close quarters to do more harm to your opponents, but R.O.B. needs his personal space... Final Destination is your best choice for neutrals. For counterpicks unfortunately, they either have hazards or transform, but just go with Pirate Ship, Delfino Plaza, or Pokemon Stadium 1.
Double Agent Contracts - One of Sonic's more annoying matchups, you'll want to keep the Gyro away from R.O.B. and not allow him to charge it. Dodge his lazers with a simple Spinshot, and never stop in front of him or you get grabbed/DSmashed. At least don't get grabbed... Anyway watch out for his aerials, don't try to outprioritize them. R.O.B. has a huge blindspot at a 45 degree angle and right under him, exploit them as much as you possibly can.
Credit goes to Nintendevil for trying, zzz99 for letting me know that R.O.B. is a camper, DRaGZ for informing me that R.O.B. is as capable of winning a 2vs1 situation like Sonic, PillowPants andJCaesar007 for already telling me that the tagteam wouldn't work out too well... Sudai for misc., and everybody mentioned above for being too lazy to click the link and bring the discussion to this thread!
Hint for character #6!
"That's Mama Luigi to you, Kinzer!"
Okay okay, please don't hurt me! *Psst* If he isn't on his period, do you think he could make a good wife *Cough* I mean partner?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - While Luigi may be a slow character in the air and only slightly faster on the ground, and with low traction, he does pack quite the punch... literally! Luigi is an insane vertical-killer, I doubt that even heavy characters like Bowser or King Dedede can live to hisShoryuken! Fire Jump Punch past 140% even with crazy DI on Final destination!
General Compatibility - A lot of people suggest that Luigi is about the most basic partner Sonic can get, and I can't really argue that logic. Luigi is like a semi on an icy road, he is highly unstable. Luigi also balances himself out with K.O. and combo power, where Sonic doesn't excel as much as Luigi does. Whether you are a lightweightSUV like his brother Mario (know that Mario is a middleweight anyway), or a heavy duty like Snake, the threat is always high with Luigi. You would think somebody with poor mobility wouldn't be able to get around, but on the contrary, Luigi has lots of ways to move. Luigi can play offensively or defensively, all his attacks allow some kind of obstacle to overcome for the assault, and for a retreat a somewhat impenetrable wall.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Remember how I said Luigi has low traction and is not really fast? Well that on it's own can be a downside. With Luigi, anything has knockback, and will push him quite a ways. Get somebody like... oh I dunno... Toon Link, who has a nice wall of projectiles where you need to be fast and precise, and you have a problem. Luigi can't recover without having to use his specials, and they aren't too good when it comes to reliability. The Cyclone doesn't have a definite distance, the Green Missile doesn't get much push unless it misfires, and the Fire Jump Punch leaves him in the helplessness state. Luigi is also one of the characters who get temporarily infintied by D3, try to get him out of it if you see it happening, as it puts a lot of % on the poor guy and refreshes a lot of D3's other moves.
Strength in Numbers - Luigi is very good at comboing people at low percentages, and can kill quite fine. Now while there may be a void between the two, this is where you come in! You are better at racking up damage, and staying on the move to harass your opponents. Let Luigi take care of the heavies, and you just worry about taking out the opponent that weights less, you're fast and precise enough to do it. Luigi also has a lot of tricks up his sleeve when it comes to your setups, it's an endless possibility!
Partnership Summary - While Luigi may have some problems, they don't technically outweigh his benefits... some could say the problems he has only helps him get further! This team gets a 6.5/10, nothing like the basics, eh? Just cover up his gaps, and he'll cover up yours. "You scratch my quills, I'll scratch your back!"
Stages of Preference - Luigi benefits from platforms (go figure) and low ceilings, take him somewhere where his opponents will get killed off faster in that manner, and the blastzones on the sides are closer. Battlefield/Final Destination in that order, and Corneria/Battleship Halberd/Brinstar for counterpicking.
Double Agent Contracts - Nobody pays attention to him, so chances are you don't/won't know a thing about him. Being serious now, Luigi has a decent recovery, but if he tries to get back on stage with the Missile, just Forward Smash him to the blast zone. Now if they're better and recovery with the Tornado, try to hit them out of it but don't let them touch the ground, it loses its use if he keeps using it and doesn't land. Luigi also has bad traction, so if you hit him in a shield you might not get punished OoS for doing so if you play your cards right... Spinshot moar!
Credit goes to Kigbariom for speaking on behalf of the Man in Green. I couldn't have done this write-up without your assistance!
Hint for character #7!
Ya see, nobody else can probably one-hand stand!
He's cool in the same sense as Ike, but instead of fighting for his friends he makes people trip. He won't be trippin' with us, correct?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Well, I've been hearing a lot of people saying how Diddy Kong is like Sonic in the sense that it is up to the player to make him good or bad in a team. For this time though, we're going to assume a lot of things and just say that we're playing with a kicka** Diddy Kong here. Diddy is Alright in one on one situations, but it is unknown to me how he fairs in two on one situations, so we'll scratch that bogey.
General Compatibility - Diddy Kong is infamous for a bunch of stuff. For one thing, the power behind his Smashes SUCK! So I herd ya liekMudkipz Bananas as Diddy Kong, and that's okay. Diddy Kong has Bananas he can use to mess up his opponents and put them in bad places. His ability to rack-up damage also makes up for his lack of K.O. power. He's okay at recovery, for one thing, he can use his Side-B to get some horizontal distance, and then after that he can still use his Up-B, and depending on how it long it is charged and what angle is fired, might get him far.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Remember when I said that Diddy Kong doesn't have a lot of power behind his attacks? Well yeah, I don't know how Diddy Kongs get their kills, but they sure ain't gonna get it anytime soon unless something goes wrong. Now considering you have Diddy tossing bananas out, and friendly fire on, they can mess you up as much as they can throw off their opponents. His Up-B may get him some distance, but it isn't exactly safe, not on charge, and not on the lag/helplessness state.
Strength in Numbers - I'll tell you though, if either you and/or Diddy Kong are good at Banana control, it is really hard for the opponents to get momentum on the battle. Sonic and Diddy can also get around pretty well even if the Bananas aren't in their control (though it would be nice), Diddy has some nice combos and the like, and his throws are worthy of mention.
Partnership Summary - Diddy isn't the best partner to have, but he isn't the worst. At least if you two get into best case scenarios, it won't get TOO hairy. 4.5/10 unfortunately, because we have to be realistic, and things can and will go wrong. Now while people say Sonic and Diddy aren't good partners to have on any team, you will have your reasons, so don't let anybody (or this guide for that matter) getc'ya down!
Stages of Preference - Now what's really inconvenient here is that Diddy works better on "flat" stages, and I'm unsure of what he does bad on. At least you do alright on level stages as well. Final Destination/Smashville (TN) are decent Neutrals, and maybe for CPs you should go to walkoffs so Diddy won't have to be using his recovery. Delfino Plaza & Castle Siege might do the trick for Counterpicks.
Double Agent Contracts - Diddy has some stupid Naner tricks... he can almost lock you in place if he makes you trip on one, and just keep throwing more naner peels at you. After which he locks you he can Throw/Smash you at high %ages and when you're right at the ledge. There really is not much else Sonic has to worry about other than keeping control of the Banana Peels and drop a Spring on Diddy's RocketBarrel recovery.
I didn't get too much information for Diddy Kong... in fact, more of it came from the Sonic Boards! *Sheesh* Anyway, I highly recommend you and/or your partner or whoever is reading this guide do some research of your own on Diddy and use your own judgment on how he will do with Sonic. This write-up is sadly neglected, and will most likely be redone in the future if not at least just be used as a rough draft for those too lazy to do much else. This one is still open for discussion if you have anything to add, really!
Hint for character #8!
"*Grrrr!*"
Mama Mia, he doesn't like being called "Marty-O!"... but the ol' timer in PP:TTYD called him that... anyway how good of a team player is he?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Mario was a character made by Nintendo a sometime about twenty years ago, and is still Nintendo's mascot to this date. Rumor has it there is not a single person in this world who doesn't know of Mario's being. Biography out of the way, Nintendo had aimed to make Mario the "basic" character of Brawl... and like much else in this game, have failed to accomplish that. Mario is placed in the SBR's version 1.0 tier list as low, and just like Sonic, has a bunch of good attributes to question what kind of drugs were the Smash Back-Roomers doing when they made their first tier list. Now while I make Mario look promising, I need to tell you that he is in the same court as Sonic where he does have his bad attributes and matchups, but was blessed enough to be able to work around this stuff.
General Compatibility - Mario is a team player that anybody can have without much argument. Mario has a bunch of cool stuff in his overalls pockets, to mention a few are the Cape, the Flash Liquidizer Ultra Dousing Device (F.L.U.D.D.), and his FIYAHBAWLS!!! Let's make a comparison since somehow Mario & Sonic are so similar. Mario has a recovery which is better than most of the cast, not too much range on his attacks (not including Fireballs or F.L.U.D.D.), a nice gimping game, and while he certainly isn't a Speedy Sonic or a powerhouse Bowser, he is fast and strong on his attacks... ah, I must admit he is quite mobile to an extent. Mario also has a quick Nair to get him out of combos and the like, just as you have your Spring. Not only that, but Mario can also use his SuperJump Punch to gain invincibility frames and such!
Risks/Partner Dependency - Mario can look out for himself as much as you can, but while he is a "median" character, even that has its bad sides. Mario won't be able to space properly with his Fireballs or F.L.U.D.D. if you are there in the way, his Cape can reflect projectiles, but if you happen to be in the path of that reflected projectile, you might not see it coming in time. Another bad thing with Mario is that his aerials are all easily shieldgrabbed and punished. Mario to my knowledge doesn't have the aerial acceleration to weave safely away if something goes wrong. Another bad thing about Mario is that he doesn't cover your bad matchups! Once again, another character who has it harder with D3's D-Throw CG, after 5 D-throws in place that is.
Strength in Numbers - Finally, the reason you WANT to have Mario on your side. Back in the SNES/Genesis days, Mario & Sonic were arch rivals... that's all gone and away now, and now that you two are in a 2vs2 team for Brawl, you two are quite fluent with one-another. Mario can Cape you to surprise your opponents, be it you are SpinDash Rolling right into his Cape, or just charging up a Sonic punch! Another good thing about Mario is that if recovery doesn't seem too opportune, he can stall in the air with his Cape, either allowing you enough time to rescue him, or if his problem is the opponent, knock 'em out of the way! Oh, did I mention that Mario can use the Cape on the opponent for a return-attack? Well replace Sonic with somebody like D3 Charging up their FSmash on Mario, and he can just turn him around to hit his ally! (Just be sure you aren't on the other side of the opponent when Mario is caping him or something.) Mario, to a slightly bigger extent, has the K.O. power you don't, and to a lesser extent has a smaller gimping game than you... but that is debatable. Reason being is because of F.L.U.D.D., now while not too many people can see it's potential, is a great tool to have, literally! Invented by the scientist professor E. Gadd, F.L.U.D.D. can push away things, help recovery (be it yours or his), and freeze opponents in the air, leaving them wide open for you to attack! Mario can also use his Fireballs as a means of saving you, now I know this doesn't make sense, but it's perfect, since it doesn't do too much damage or knockback, but it still refreshed your pseudo-helpless state assuming your in it, letting you Spring up again! Mario also has a killer Back-Throw, and a nice setup from his D-Throw. I forgot to mention Mario has a combo game (OMGWTFHAXNERFQQ!?!?), and can rack up damage fast!
Partnership Summary - Big summary, eh? It should, Mario is a promising guy who won't let you down! He has the dedication to CONSTANTLY rescue a damsel-in-distress day in and day out from the likes of Bowser! Mario and Sonic get a 8.5/10 for a team-grading. You two are independent individuals, yet if you wanted to, can make great things happens. The only reason the other 1 and a half point is missing, is because Mario doesn't cover your bad matchups and vice versa, and while not really lacking in any field, doesn't excel as much as MK does in his for example, but can do amazing things nevertheless.
Stages of Preference - Mario is a phenomenal man, no question. Any stage without thinking will do, so go to any neutral, it's fine. Mario is the king of platforming, and he's had to deal with worse! As for counterpicks, people have suggested to me that you take him to Rainbow Cruise... go figure. It's a Mario stage (or series... whatever), and is perfect for his good things and yours, and this stage covers up your bad sides as well as his! Don't forget to rescue Mario if he is in need, there are no ledges (except on the boat), and he can give you enough time to save him from a lost stock.
Double Agent Contracts - The Cape *****. Ryhmes out of the way, be sure he doesn't push you away with F.L.U.D.D. in your air-tripped state and then ledgehog you. You're the only hedgehog for goodness sake! *Ahem* just save your kill moves for later... or what little of them you as Sonic have... use a lot of UTilt/USmash to beat him on most aerial approaches, Fireballs are not going to really force you to approach.
I want to thank Matt0(0)7 for doing a good write-up and getting me started, Heromystic for telling me some things I did not honestly know about Mario before (he's also a good colleague of mine on this forum), and Judge Judy for just having a funny/cool name
Thanks guys, you're all awesome!
Hint for character #9!
Hands off my Bread, it's not for you!
Well then... If he won't share his Bread with us, should we still go ahead and give him Steak?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Alright, so Starfox has a second in command pilot, his name is Falco Lombardi, and while not a direct clone to Fox in SSBB, does have some similarities. Falco has a Stronger laser that is less rapid, a worse recovery (he is limited to Phantasm, not even Firebird covers a lot of distance...), arguably more K.O. power, a chaingrab as well as a possible lock on unteched opponents, and overall has a bag of weaponry up his sleeve. He is quite arrogant like Sonic, but can he be second in command when it comes to this two being a team? Well, let me tell ya!
General Compatibility - Falco has a bunch of stuff he can do to single opponents! His lasers alone are a threat, they force approaches, hinder some opponents in different ways, can be fired in ways to spice it up a bit, lock an unteched opponent and rack up damage, and lastly just prove a nuisance! Did I mention that they keep Falco's other moves fresh? so what can lasers do for Sonic? They can make the opponent come to Sonic/Falco assuming they are camping (and the opponent doesn't have a means to reflect them), and have low knockback, meaning if Sonic is in the pseudo-helpless state after a Spring, Falco can just simply revive him! Using the same idea, Falco can gimp unsuspecting opponents by firing a laser at them, but Hell this isn't Falco's only means of getting offstage K.O.s. Falco has his powerful Dair, Bair, and the Falco Phantasm, which has spiking properties! All of Falco's Smashes can be used to score K.O.s, as they all have the power to do so...as a Smash should (I mean c'mon, Sonic has his USmash, which at best racks up damage in normal situations...). Finally, Falco has his own reflector, just in case the opponents have some kind of projectile. Not only for reflecting stuff back, the Reflector can be used to trip, be used as a semi-mid ranged attack, and a bunch of other things I don't know. seems promising as he is a well-prepared fighter right? Wrong, this is Falco in 2vs2s were talking about here, and like all characters *coughexceptMKcough*, they all have their downsides. With Sonic specifically, here's the problems.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Falco to me seems like a camper, and Sonic is NOT a character to stay in one place! Falco can't use his lasers without having to risk hitting Sonic with them if he is out in the battlefield, and the reflector is discouraged if Sonic might be in the path of the projectile. The almighty Chaingrab is also discouraged because the opponent's partner can disrupt the process, assuming he isn't preoccupied with Sonic, is smart, etc. Remember how I told you Falco is a below-average recovery? Well no mater how people might want to argue this, is right. Falco's main way of recovery is his Phantasm, which on it's own is a great horizontal recovery, but this limits him because his other recovery, the Firebird, is PATHETIC! It covers less horizontal distance, and hardly raises Falco vertically, and not only that, but when trying to get back on the stage, only has 3 useable angles, that's right, it is short and linear! Mix that horrible 2nd recovery with the fact that both recovery are easily punishable, and you have Sonic worrying about saving Falco constantly if he gets knocked out of the stage. Falco's Fair is also sucky for non-semi-gimping purpose, it does little damage, can be SDIed out of easily, won't usually get K.O.s IF AT ALL,, and if Short Hopped (I even doubt Full Hopped) has a LOT of landing lag! Reflector has no hitbox coming back, has it's fair share of lag, and doesn't protect Falco as a Reflector shield really should. Drawbacks aside, Falco does have some things that can work with Sonic.
Strength in Numbers - Falco has the killing power Sonic doesn't have, with all of his Smashes being able to K.O., Bair, Dair, and Uair. Sonic can use the Spring to let Falco get into the air (he prefers it), and if Sonic doesn't score the first Star K.O., Falco might be able to come back on the recoil. Sonic can also play a slight Camper-style with Falco, and just protect Falco from an oncoming foes while Falco does the pressuring. With all this said, you might want to pick a stage where Falco's recovery isn't easily manipulated and a more or less flat stage so the both of you can TRY to make your opponents go insane.
Partnership Summary - Falco has his Bread, he prefers the air, he likes Pizzacake, he doesn't want you to try him. Silly gags aside, his playstyle might seem to clash a lot of with Sonic's, but it can be worked with to an extent. So Falco/Sonic can share their Bread/Steak to make a half-decent sandwich, but to make it tastier (I know, right?), they still need some more condiments, which is why these Iron Chefs gets a 4/10.
Stages of Preference - Short and Sweet like Food, Final Destination/SV (TN) for neutrals, and Delfino Plaza/Green greens for Counterpick stages. If possible, avoid Pictochat/Lylat/Rainbow Cruise/Frigate Orpheon.
Double Agent Contracts - Falco is really annoying with Lazers, granted in a 2 on 2 they won't be as much as a problem, but they still stop you in your tracks with his other moves more refreshed and you that much clsoer to death. Reflector also stops you dead in your tracks on any ground approaches if he times it right, and he can still put up a good fight in the air with things like Nair/Bair. Use mindgames to your best effort, and use lots of Bairs/gimps. Remember his recovery is not the best so if you get him offstage read him and punish him.
Sadly, there wasn't too much information from either side to directly quote anybody. Lucky for you, I used to main Falco for a good while, so I knew then what he could do, and to an extent, still applies today, and with Sonic. Regardless, you should go do your own homework on Falco to get a better idea.
Bare with me, I know this font is rather hard to read, but just highlight it if you can't read it.
Hint for character #10!
s*** Youtube Poop.
You won't footstool me... will you...?
I'd say we have a lot more things to worry about than betrayal when it comes to working together on the warzone, don't you think?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Yoshi is like Sonic that playing him will take some dedication, and a broad kmowledgknowledge Yoshi can do. Yoshi has some insanely hard ATs to perform, but at least he is the closest a low tier character is going to get to becoming a Meta Knight counter. Yoshi has no good 3rd jump, but this can be supplied by Yoshi's Egg Toss, amazing second jump, and his aerial speed, which is the highest in this game... That's right, he's even faster than Jigglypuff in the air, and his aerial acceleration is good enough to let Yoshi move around just a little bit. Yoshi has a mean aerial game, and a ground game that is awkward to be able to throw anybody off... just make sure you don't get caught in any of these shenanigans!
General Compatibility - Yoshi & Sonic are characters who can be played in different ways, with Yoshi having less versatility when it comes to partnering up with Sonic. Yoshi has a Nair which is a C-C-C-Combo-Breaker!!, an Uair that kills really early, a disjointed Bair that is the equivalent to Sonic's Fair, A dair that has multi-hit moves, racks up damage easily with it, and I heard it spikes (don't quote me on that). Did I mention Yoshi has a Fair that spikes? Pretty much sets up the opponent for any of Sonic's attack should he be there to punish the opponent. Either player can play aggressively/defensively, just make sure neither of you are doing the same thing, you put yourselves in an unfavorable place by doing so. That explains the less versatile part about Yoshi (but doesn't this hold true for everybody in doubles?), so please don't flame me if I got that wrong. Yoshi has an Egg Roll (new food meme?) that acts in the same way as Sonic's Spincharge, except with less speed and more power. Yoshi's neutral-B puts the opponent in an egg, making them completely vulnerable for either a kill move, or just a really fast and reliable way to get damage on the opponent being unable to do anything but mash the movement stick on their controller to get out.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Don't get hit by any of Yoshi's moves, they have quite a punch to them. The Yoshi bomb for example, has insane priority/kill power, and in the case of your opponents is really hard to punish. The power gets multiplied even more if Yoshi does the move grounded, knocking anybody right into murder. Don't let Yoshi encase you in an egg by accident either, you become completely useless until you are able to move again, and the same stuff will apply to your opponents being able to work some crazy junk on you. Yoshi has a lot of lag on his grabs, but it's all worth it if he gets them off. Now before you assume they are bad in general, they aren't. It's just the same analogy with Sonic about how his grab range is really short, but things can happen if you get grabbed by Sonic. High risk, high reward. Yoshi also has one of the worst shields in the game, being unable to grab/attack immediately out of shield. The only upside is that Yoshi can't be shield-poked
Strength in Numbers - Yoshi has the same playstyle as you, but some things changed added. for one, he has more killmoves, but like you has trouble landing them. Yoshi also has a nice way of keeping opponents at a distance and dealing damage from there, for example Jab, Nair, and perhaps Egg Toss. Yoshi's FSmash has bout as much disjointedness and Kill power as yours, USmash having insane range on it as well as having kill power, and DSmash being reasonably good. Some of Yoshi's attacks send opponents at a low angle, meaning any opponent who can't recover that well from that angle will be having trouble with Yoshi, like all the spacies and Ike.
Partnership Summary - While Yoshi & Sonic are similar, they have to adjust to what the situation calls for, and how their partner behaves... a lack of communication will make this team horrible, but if all things go according to plan, this team out to do decent enough to receive a grading of 7/10. At least Yoshi & Sonic can do some nasty team attacks, and being able to watch out for one another to an extent. One more thing to keep note of is that Yoshi has Egg Rolls, Sonic has Steak... make it work out!
Stages of Preference - Take Yoshi somewhere where he won't have to rely so much on recovery, and preferably walkoff stages if they are good at carrying opponents to the blastzone like King Dedede. A little bit of space is nice too, so you two won't have to work as hard to work together... any neutral but Lylat Cruise should be fine (assuming it is a neutral), and as for counterpicks, go with Delfino Plaza/Luigi's Mansion.
Double Agent Contracts - Yoshi is more trheatening in the air than he is on the ground, so make most of your attacks from there, but be sure not to get grabbed. If you do, just Spring if he tries to do any of that CG business, you'll clear the way and give him an extra 4% damage, but be careful of being fooled into Springing when he isn't going to go after you right after. Don't try to space your aerials, just use Bair/Uair, Yoshi has crazy speed in the air, and some rpetty good momentum, not to mention his Nair combo-breakers, and his own Bair is pretty disjointed.
Credit goes to the Yoshi boards for being a bit too lazy to talk the discussion to the master thread... but at least they helped me more than some of the other character boards did... *cough*
If you want more information on Yoshi, go to their respective character boards... good luck though, as if playing Sonic didn't take some commitment on it's own, Yoshi is a difficult character to master himself.
The guide continues from here on out, I got rid of my sig on the first OP so that you won't get confused for that as part of the guide. What you see below you is the edit/directory of my changelogs somewhat if you actually keep up with this thread, disregard that if you are just reading the guide for the data regarding the game. Yes sir, please enjoy the new format, and let me know if anything seems cut out or something.
Hey everybody, Kinzer (the Hedgehog) here, with a proposition for the entire Sonic boards' frequenters/lurkers/contributors alike!
I was up one night, thinking that by now a couple other boards have this same thing going on, so why not do this myself?!
The purpose of those threads was to give a general idea of what other characters mesh well with the main character in a team battle or not, this one will be no exception.
I want to have a thread dedicated in the Sonic boards that from my standing, finally helps the board further strive to become the ultimate community, and what better to do it than with the "REAL SUPER AWESOME POWER OF TEAMWORK?!"
So with the introduction done, let's get to what you're in this thread for.
Sonic was announced for Super Smash Bros. Brawl quite a long time ago. While many have prayed for and anticipated his arrival, Nintendo didn't exactly give the Sega mascot much good attributes, later which to be discovered in the game. To make matters worse, he joined the fray alone, without his buddy Tails or his friendly-nemesis Knuckles, to help him. To this day, a select number have dedicated themselves to the Blue Blur, so not all hope is lost.
Those few, those who are proud to stay, they will indirectly assist Sonic by unlocking his full potential and guiding Sonic to his fullest. Those people...are humans. We have stuck with Sonic through the thick and thin, and we shall continue to do so for a very long time, but as you might know, some have chosen to play other characters on the Brawl roster, and that's fine! Everybody is entitled to play their favorite character, but can we form alliances to help the cause? You betc'ya!
As a group, we want to find out that who do we get along with the best, at least not with our old pals here to assist us. So is Sonic truly on his own, or might we be able to find new allies in the least expected places? That is to be found out to a later date, when this guide is finished for good and you read through the material. I want to let you know though that even if a character does not theoretically work on paper, it is possible to make things keep on truckin' if you work hard enough.
I won't be able to keep this thread alive alone. I'll give everybody the steps necessary to advance. It is up to you as the wise reader, to further improve this guide in the making by helping me out in any way, it's always appreciated. This is not limited to just finding typos in the guide, it could be posting your 2cents, new dieas no one else has come up with, etc.
I might run out of ideas for character hints, if you want to suggest a character for next time, please send me a PM with a hint for the character as well as the answer, I might just use it! :bigthumbu
Also people if you're going to suggest me a character, make the effort to private message me what you want for the next character! If you suggested I do a new character before I get done with whoever IN THE WIDE OPEN PUBLIC TO VIEW!!! I have to skip them for another time because other people would be expecting who it is and it only makes my job of putting up hints more difficult! Please understand I'm no nerdy dungeon master where I can make riddles hard/fun/somewhat easy to figure out at the same time, so if you let me have my options open, it makes it somewhat easier. Thank you for your cooperation.
I'll be taking any ideas, comments, etc. For example, what do you want to be seen in this thread? What information must be added to make this plan credible? Is it a bust or something like "why the Hell didn't somebody come up with this sooner?!" Project "Sonic Heroes" seems to be all Green lights on Green Hill Zone, let's do it!
Warning!: If you happen to figure out the character, I don't want to hear any complaining from anybody that they didn't get it right or didn't get it first, nor do I want to hear anybody gloating everybody else that they were "smarter than the rest." If I see this, I'm going to drop the hint sections and just skip straight to the next character. Remember, we all like to have fun, don't ruin it! You jerks out there know who you are!
For every character, usually you would want to follow this guideline. Extra content is fine too, I could possibly use it as well!
General Compatibility - In your opinion, how do you think these two would work, this is usually just your general thought.
Risks - What danger does this character prove to Sonic? Mistakes will happen, better learn now to try and reduce the chance of slip-ups.
Dependency - Just how much will you two have to do to make this work out? Does this character have like a poor recovery where you have to help him a lot? Or is there something like due to a characters weakness, you will have to go out of your way to make up for them yourself?
Strength in Numbers - What reason could you possibly have to use this character over another, is there something about the character that makes them shine above all others?
Compatibility Summary - Simply put, if you had to give a TL/DR version of what you said, how would you say it? To go with this, give a rating on a scale of 1 to 10.
Stages of Preference - You two want to find a stage where you guys can further increases your odds of winning, and depending on your partner can vary greatly. This part will give you an idea of where to go!
Double Agent Contracts - Not necessary your partner turning on you, but rather what you could be expecting if you saw this character on the opponent's team. You might as well make sure what to expect from Sonic's perspective.
If anybody might have anything else to add to this, feel free to do so.
If any information about the characters is incorrect or otherwise misleading, please feel free to point it out, and if it really needs a-fixin', It will be taken care of.
Alright people, let's get to work, but remember to hold your chin high!
Hint for character #1!
Credit goes to DDM for figuring out that it was Ganondorf. Good job buddy!
*Hmph.* "You're skinny, but maybe the brothel can use you..."
It's the G-man, and he's pimping! However, are we his ho or are we partners in crime?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Ganondorf on his own can hold hid own ground. While he may not have a lot of good matchups, he more than makes up for it by being able to hit hard, and having a dangerous tech chase from Flame Choke. No matter who you are, if Ganon has some good mindgame tricks, you're in for a ride.
General Compatibility - With Ganondorf, it's really tricky. He has the K.O. power you lack, a better setup game, he can take a real beating, and some of his attacks have deceiving lag. You have the maneuverability, multi-hit moves, better damage-output with your flexibility, and a near perfect recovery. Both you and Ganon are capable of a lot of things! While some think that they are right where they belong, they can become the underdogs and make a comeback you wouldn't expect them to!
Risks/Partner Dependency - While I think opposites attract, this can sometimes be different than expected. You two will have to be highly coordinated with one another not to get into each other's business. Making a lot of whiffed attacks is going to cost both you and your partner. Sonic isn't exactly heavy, so if for whatever reason Ganon mistimes an attack or spaces it incorrectly, you're going to be flying off the screen faster than you can walk Final Destination. Ganon can also take a lot of hurt, but he is also a big target. You can't really be aggressive when he's around or else you will accidentally hit him. Ganon pays a price for being so heavy...anybody who is really good at gimping recoveries will give Ganon trouble.
Strength in Numbers - As I said before, while Ganon has some glaring weaknesses and strengths, if you two are really comfortable with working with each other, you two will work as efficient as a machine. You two can cover for one another! Now let's take for example the setups from Ganon's Flame Choke. You can place yourself to strike the poor unfortunate soul who happened to get caught, and without worry of sending Ganon flying due to the Super Armor frames if you hit Ganon by accident! He isn't the only one who can make kills if you work for it, and with him helping you, it only makes this combo all the more beautiful if all goes according to plan. Another extreme example would be Ganon's poor recovery, if you can save him, you won't have too much worry about messing up your guys' groove, just make sure that Ganon isn't going to try to use any of his specials or you might just make things worse for yourselves. Best wait to make that he won't already make it back on his own.
Partnership Summary - Due to a community median, I have decided to rate this Partnership a 5.5/10. There are more efficient partners Sonic can recruit, but just because that is such a low number does not mean that having Ganon for a candidate is out of the question! It's mostly "Ying-Yang" here. If your partner knows Ganon and Sonic, this can and will work out just great!
Stages of Preference - You two need a lot of space to work with, or if you are great with synchronization, go somewhere with medium size. Battlefield/Yoshi's Island is probably your best choice for Neutrals, and Delfino Plaza/Pirate Ship can work just A-OK!
Double Agent Contracts - Approaching a defensive Ganon is tough, especially when he can auto-cancel 3/5 of his aerials. Wiz Kick will... kick you out of any direct approaches if you aren't quick enough to expect it. Beware the Choke. USmash has some very misleading IASA frames, so if you're thinking ocharging Ganon while you may think he is laggy, expect to be jabbed away if you're too slow. At least at about 90+% you can hit Ganon out of his Dark Dive with maybe an Uair, first hit/s of Fair, and maybe Nair, though don't hold me on that.
Special thanks goes to Hyperstation, Twilight Prince, and SaltyKracka who spoke on Ganondorf's behalf!
Hint for character #2!
Credit goes to Gf2tw for figuring out that it was Kirby, I didn't exactly make it easy!
*Eye Twitch.*
Although we won't have sex with him...or her...or it...can we still make this work out? (WTH is this thing anyway?!)
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Kirby is similar to Sonic in the sense that Kirby has a better recovery than a chunk of the cast, lacking K.O. moves (I'll explain that later), and is a very interesting character. Kirby has the ability to suck in opponents and "steal" their abilities and use them against his opponents...or in this case he can Suck-up Sonic for his Homing Attack. Depending on what the situation calls for, Kirby can either keep himself available (again, to be explained later), or use the copied abilities to turn the tables.
General Compatibility - As I said before, Kirby is like a Sonic without the speed and maneuverability, but Kirby has way more combo potential from its setups, especially at low percentages! Also mentioned before was that Kirby didn't have a lot of K.O. moves, well that's not necessarily true. While Kirby does have a rather huge arsenal of things to do, some of them just require a lot of commitment to them. Stone when high up in the air is hard to not see coming, Smash attacks have lag after performed, and Kirby's Hammer is both slow on startup and recovery when grounded, but when in the air can reduce lag, become a two-hit move, and can weave with it a little bit at the cost of power.
Risks/Partner Dependency - While Kirby is more than capable of holding ground, Kirby is rather very light and vulnerable when recovering, meaning Kirby will die insanely early. Kirby's recovery is better than others in distance terms, but it's easy to see where he will be going, and he doesn't have any huge hitbox attacks to protect him/her/itself in the air. You'll probably have to make your partner's opponent distracted just to make sure that Kirby doesn't get gimp K.O.ed. Now with a team like this, you two won't be getting kills very early, and neither of you have a real projectile (this isn't including the beam from Grounded Final Cutter, or without Kirby sucking up somebody), so any fight will be long and drawn out, it's even worse when you two will have to approach your opponent.
Strength in Numbers - Kirby's copy ability is reason enough to pick Kirby over others. It's fun when you two are on the Blue team and he sucks you up, gaining your quills! That's just Sonic, get somebody like R.O.B., and Kirby will have his own freaking Shoop-Da-Whoop Lazah Beams pewpewpew!!! But seriously folks Sonic and Kirby are a good combo when they want to be. Kirby is a small target, so with the few hits that do connect on Kirby, they won't be killing Kirby so long as Kirby doesn't take anything with any bit of K.O. power. Kirby also happens to be a great aerial fighter when the opponent is the one recovering. Kirby also has the gimps.
Partnership Summary - Deemed by the community, Sonic & Kirby receive a 7.5/10 grading. Now while Kirby is a great partner to have, he still has room for improvement. Go nuts on the offensive, you two are built to harass your opponents! If you don't believe me, look at his taunts man, it's annoying for your opponents when you two decide to break-dance! That's just one example of annoying taunts, Kirby can keep squatting down and Sonic can yell "You're too slow!", and you know what that leads too...? Eh, well I'll let you figure that out on your own. (hehe, man do I keep busting out the sexual Innuendoes, don't I? Don't worry ladies, I'm better in person, should you ever get to meet me *wink wink*) Alright, but enough fooling around, got to stay focused!!
Stages of Preference - Go to a map where you two are going to be fighting in close quarters, I suggest you go to Smashville (TN) for neutrals, and for counterpick stages you should go to Castle Siege or Frigate Orpheon if you're feeling confident about your recovery.
Double Agent Contracts - Kirby can cypher grab you with his swallow ability. So long as does not do damage, you will be in the air-tripped stage, and you will be unable to recover. Kirby can be a jerk when recovery, since none of your recoveries are really safe. That's right, he has things like Bair/Nair/Dair/Swallow/Fair to hit you out of things like HAs or Spring if you get predictable. That's just in the air, don't get me started on his optinos from the very edge of the stage of you get that predictable.
Credit goes to Asdioh for giving some input on Kirby...and Suspect along with MK26 for helping me remember that Kirby is still a character in SSBB...
Hint for character #3!
Credit goes to MK26 of the Kirby boards for figuring out who it was, and Irae for the picture to come.
"Need I say more?"
It's Ike, and he's listening to some good music for BBoyin', anyway just how much sympathy will we get with him?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Ike is a killing machine! Most if not all of his attacks have some kind of K.O. power behind them, some you wouldn't expect to K.O. really! Ike is even faster than a lot would expect him to be for such a powerhouse. I can already tell you right now that Ike fights for his friends big time, I'll explain why Sonic and Ike are such a deadly combo.
General Compatibility - As I said before, Ike has a lot of power behind his attacks, don't be surprised if you see your opponents flying everywhere, even if they aren't Meta Knight. Ike is also similar to Sonic in the way that he is an underdog can make a huge comeback from what would appear to be a lost cause. While he has no real setups and only one true combo (to my knowledge), he doesn't really need that stuff if he is good with mindgames, just as Ganondorf was. While I make him seem like an improved Ganondorf, he does come with some drawbacks...
Risks/Partner Dependency - For one thing, I do make him look fast, but he still is a slow character at heart. A majority of his attacks all have some kind of lag behind them, take his FSmash for example. Ike can kill at stupid-low percentages, but this means that if you take a good hit from Ike, you won't be coming back. Even Ganondorf isn't as strong as Ike in general (that's up for debate). Speaking of Ganondorf, Ike doesn't have a good recovery either...or should I say Aether? Regardless, Ike's recovery is so easy to mess up, that if your opponent gets a nice hit on Ike, like Wolf's DSmash, he isn't coming back unless you bust your butt and try to save him with Uairs. What also stinks about Ike is that once an opponent in inside of him (not sexually, I mean that literally), he can't get them out! Ike may have some fast attacks, but somehow Nintendo did a good job of making Ike's attacks slow enough where if he is fighting anybody with quick-frame moves and/or with little knockback, he will be easily comboed. Not even his "Counter" is fast enough to get them out of his uncomfortable zone... King D3 also has a nasty D-Throw CG on the both of you, so if you can try and stop D3 from doing that mess on Ike.
Strength in Numbers - You want to go with Ike because he has the Range and the Power you don't have, as well as some Quick moves. I shouldn't have said that Ganon was "weaker" than Ike, but instead mention that Ike has the best non-disjointed/projectile reach, and for as speedy as he is shouldn't have the power behind some of his attacks. Sonic also works so great as a decoy for your opponents, they'll be so focused on you that they won't notice Ike sneaking around waiting for an opportunity. Speaking of which, you both are opportunists and rely on being close to your opponent while keeping a distance.
Partnership Summary - You two complete each other, yet have the same playstyles, therefore there is little to no argument that this team gets a grading of 8/10. Ike is really bad offstage, has no projectile, and is a slow character. If he had some tweaks, he would be a solid character...well, moreso anyway. Work together, know your teammate, and you two are like a flying fortress.
Stages of Preference - Bring you and your teammate somewhere where opponents will die faster than usual. It will be impossible for the both of you to not kill your opponents or be killed due to just barely missing the ledge, you two are great for living a long while, what with Ike's weight and your stellar recovery. Battlefield/Yoshi's Island/Lylat Cruise are all decent neutrals, and Castle Siege/Green Greens/Corneria are great Counterpicks. You have a lot of options to work with, lay waste to your opponents wherever you prefer!
Double Agent Contracts - Well, if you just blindly charge in, you're going to get jabbed/Naired/Faired/FSmashed. Time your approaches against him, since you don't have a projectile he will be camping unless your partner has something to force him to come to you. Anyway if you are approaching an Ike, learn his habits/timing, and you should be able to get around and inside him. All of his moves, except maybe his throws, are going to kill, and he has enough time to buffer a DA from his B-Throw, so if you can I would try to DI down so you can put up a shield before that happens. If he tries to recover, just drop a Spring on him, his recovery is so one-way that a simple projectile interception will force him to keep going back to square one.
Credit goes to Nidtendofreak, Xanthyr, and... *drum roll*... MYSELF OMG!, for representing Ike as their best friend and giving this guide some sympathy.
Hint for character #4!
Credit Goes to Aeghrur for correctly guessing it was Mr. Game & Watch...did anybody think it was Falco at first?
*Beep bop boop boup be ba!*
He has to improvise with an umbrella since I took away his pan, but he's not too mad to work well with us... right?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Mr. Game & Watch is a strange character, no doubt about it. If you take the time to read the matchup between him and Sonic, you will know that a way to describe him would be "a slower/lighter Sonic with K.O. potential, a safer recovery, spammable moves, and just really hard to deal with." Next to Meta Knight, it is debatable that Mr. G&W has the best overall matchup ratios, so while he may literally look like paper... on paper, his capabilities are to not be underestimated.
General Compatibility - Mr. Game & Watch is everything Sonic is and more! He has Kill moves that if done right will kill you at around the 80-120% range...even if you're somebody as heavy as Ike. Sonic needs not to worry about Mr. G&W at all, he can handle one on one fight just as well as you can if not better, and he can do more than show some stoicism when he is against two opponents all by himself.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Get comfortable... Mr. Game & Watch is probably the most independent character you can find for a partner. His recovery only slightly covers less vertical distance than your Spring, but if he keeps the parachute up he will cover more horizontal range than you. Mr. Game & Watch is going to have to be outright killed to not make it back to the stage... which remind me that I have to tell you that he is a VERY LIGHT CHARACTER! To be exact, he only weights more than Jigglypuff... he will be getting K.O.ed really early, but that's only the "aggressive" G&Ws. according to a wise-man, a person who has mastered Game & Watch is not going to let himself open... and with his moveset, that is really hard to do. Take his Smashes for example, they have instant charge release, has IASA frames everywhere, and be spammed again and again! While Game & Watch is light, he still won't get killed anytime soon unless he makes a miSteak or the opponent is just that good... That's his only stand-out weakness.
Strength in Numbers - Certain characters' projectiles are made null by G&W, take for example Mario's Fireballs which Mr. G&W can bucket them. To make things more problematic for his opponents, if they get careless and let him bucket two more projectiles, and Mr. G&W becomes a serious threat. Oil Panic has a lot of knockback even from just eating up three Fireballs which are weak in damage and knockback. You two can handle yourselves fine, and you two can be a dangerous threat when you two work together, so there's no worry of messing up anywhere! One last thing to note is that you know that small percentage you have of not being able to make it back onstage from a pseudo-helpless state after a Spring and you're JUST A LITTLE BIT TOO SHORT FOR EVEN A FOOTSTOOL? Well Mr. Game & Watch can just drop down and use his Uair on you, which will do no damage to you, and push you up in the air. What's even more handy about this is that it refreshes G&Ws moves if the windbox hits you, making G&Ws kill moves pose even more of a threat again!
Partnership Summary - The only thing that could make this team build any better than 9.5 out of 10, was if you yourself had more kill-potential in your moves, and if G&W wasn't so susceptible to power characters like Charizard or Bowser. Even then, you two still are fast, blasts from the past, and have good attribute everywhere.
Stages of Preference - Play any way you want, anywhere you want, it doesn't matter! Game & Watch has no bad stages, and the stages he does best on, you do too! Well... to be honest, you might want to go with stages that have some blastzones that are far away so you two won't be getting killed off quickly... but that's up to you. Whether you two want to risk getting killed quickly and killing your opponents faster, or the other way around with you two being able to live for a long time and the same going for your opponents.
Double Agent Contracts -One of Sonic's hardest matchups, and for good reasoning! I highly suggest that if your partner has an easier time with G&W, you let him/her work on G&W while you focus on whoever else. If you are left with no choice but to fight G&W, you will have to constantly be exploiting weakpoints in the G&W player's game, and always be picking the right moment to attack with the right attack. Do not let fill up a bucket if it can be done, sure filling it up has a bit of lag, but he can kill you with that stupid thing. If you can shield through the whole turtle if he does this with you, no matter how safe you mgiht think it may be to drop your shield, until G&W hits the floor it always has a hitbox.
Credit goes to A2ZOMG(!!) for coming to this thread to speak on behalf of G&W, and Hylian for at least...being Hylian in the announcement thread back at the respective character board...did not get too much input this time, but no problem. I'd say more but this is going off-track from what I should be doing...
Hint for character #5!
Nobody could figure it out... this hint was just too hard, perhaps... Anyways it's R.O.B.
*Bzzzt*
Well, that's not really R.O.B., but do you think we could hack that thing's internal mainframe system to be compatible with us?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - R.O.B. is a machine built back before I was even born in 1992. Why Nintendo decided to put him in Brawl is beyond me, but that's all gone and pass now. What matters right now is that you need to know that R.O.B has a playstyle that will generally deal damage at a distance while being able to fend off his opponents with hard-hitting attacks.
General Compatibility - Let me tell you some things before I tell you the compatibility of these two. R.O.B. has two things to deal damage from afar, his Lasers and Gyros. The Lazer is something that charges itself as time goes by, as well has possessing two forms. A single weak lazer, and after it has been fully charge will fire a double lazer with noticeable knockback. The second tool he has is a projectile known as a Gyro (if you know what a Beyblade looks like in real life and how it works, it's the same thing). A Gyro can be manually charged, can be released immediately from its charge, and depending on how long it has been charged, if it is thrown at you and you are at a high percentage, will kill you. Now while R.O.B. can only have one Gyro on the field at a time, he can use it as a means to get around, or he can leave it on the ground and let it deal damage to anybody who touches it. Alright now I'm going to be completely honest with you here, Sonic and R.O.B. are not going to mix together well. The playstyles both characters have to offer just get in the way of one another. Sonic works his magic up close and personal with his opponents, while R.O.B. will try and keep his opponents away from him to avoid damage and dish it out at the same time. Now while this might seem fine, it doesn't work when you apply friendly fire...
Risks/Partner Dependency - The chances you take with R.O.B. are high. R.O.B.'s lazer goes right through anything, and in this case if you happen to be on the path of the lazer, it will stun you or send you flying depending on which lazer it is. Hey, chin up pal, look on the bright side! If you have seen DragonBall Z, it's like that one time where Goku(Sonic) grabbed an opponent and held him right there for Piccolo(R.O.B.) for fire a lazer beam from his Fingers(Eyes) to take out two birds with one stone! Getting back to reality now, another problem you're going to have to deal with is worrying about the Gyro. I've already stated what it does, just apply that knowledge to yourself and your opponents, and you got a double-edged sword. Now something you should know that I have yet to mention is that R.O.B. is not that good of a Melee fighter unless he was prepared for it... with the exception of his Nair, he has blindspots on a lot of his aerials. As for the ground, R.O.B. is better, but the lag on his attacks is punishable. One more thing I have to mention (when does it stop?!) is that R.O.B may have a decent recovery, but it requires fuel. If R.O.B. can't make it back to the stage, he will eventually run out of supplies and just drop to the blastzone like a rock. Characters like Meta Knight can prowl him offstage, because R.O.B. also can't airdodge out of his recovery without dropping out of it or initiating an attack.
Strength in Numbers - Now we get to the reasons why you want to bring R.O.B. to your team... well he doesn't have many things going for him when you pair him up with us. Ignoring the double-edged stuff, R.O.B. is okay at killing. His F/B-Throws come out fast and have decent knockback, and his U-Throw (Piledriver!) is nice for scoring Star K.O.s, and I guess his D-Throw can help you follow up with an aerial just like your D-Throw can set up an opponent to eat a direct hit from R.O.B.'s U/FSmash. Heck you can even use F-Throw and there will be enough hitstun for R.O.B. to follow up with an aerial of his own. Another good thing he can do is use a weak lazer to refresh your pseudo-helplessness state from out of a Spring, allowing you to recover with it again. Also worthy of mention is that should you be killed off and R.O.B. is left alone to fight, he can handle a 2vs1 situation just as well as you can!
Partnership Summary - I feel like I omitted some things in this right-up, however if I did, it still won't change the team rating... Sonic and R.O.B. get a 3.5/10 just because R.O.B.'s attacks will harm you as well as your opponents. R.O.B. is going to have to play according to your actions so that he doesn't get in your way, which means R.O.B. won't be able to play as efficiently... this is not good, since he literally is a piece of technology.
Stages of Preference - It is really difficult to find a stage that makes it good for the both of you to perform on. You need close quarters to do more harm to your opponents, but R.O.B. needs his personal space... Final Destination is your best choice for neutrals. For counterpicks unfortunately, they either have hazards or transform, but just go with Pirate Ship, Delfino Plaza, or Pokemon Stadium 1.
Double Agent Contracts - One of Sonic's more annoying matchups, you'll want to keep the Gyro away from R.O.B. and not allow him to charge it. Dodge his lazers with a simple Spinshot, and never stop in front of him or you get grabbed/DSmashed. At least don't get grabbed... Anyway watch out for his aerials, don't try to outprioritize them. R.O.B. has a huge blindspot at a 45 degree angle and right under him, exploit them as much as you possibly can.
Credit goes to Nintendevil for trying, zzz99 for letting me know that R.O.B. is a camper, DRaGZ for informing me that R.O.B. is as capable of winning a 2vs1 situation like Sonic, PillowPants andJCaesar007 for already telling me that the tagteam wouldn't work out too well... Sudai for misc., and everybody mentioned above for being too lazy to click the link and bring the discussion to this thread!
Hint for character #6!
Credit goes to thecatinthehat for guessing who it was... but I did have to give another hint, or people would've gotten stuck... I'm getting too good with my riddles! Anyway this man is known as Mario's shadow... he is also goes by a lot of names... but mostly people know him as Luigi!
"That's Mama Luigi to you, Kinzer!"
Okay okay, please don't hurt me! *Psst* If he isn't on his period, do you think he could make a good wife *Cough* I mean partner?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - While Luigi may be a slow character in the air and only slightly faster on the ground, and with low traction, he does pack quite the punch... literally! Luigi is an insane vertical-killer, I doubt that even heavy characters like Bowser or King Dedede can live to his
General Compatibility - A lot of people suggest that Luigi is about the most basic partner Sonic can get, and I can't really argue that logic. Luigi is like a semi on an icy road, he is highly unstable. Luigi also balances himself out with K.O. and combo power, where Sonic doesn't excel as much as Luigi does. Whether you are a lightweight
Risks/Partner Dependency - Remember how I said Luigi has low traction and is not really fast? Well that on it's own can be a downside. With Luigi, anything has knockback, and will push him quite a ways. Get somebody like... oh I dunno... Toon Link, who has a nice wall of projectiles where you need to be fast and precise, and you have a problem. Luigi can't recover without having to use his specials, and they aren't too good when it comes to reliability. The Cyclone doesn't have a definite distance, the Green Missile doesn't get much push unless it misfires, and the Fire Jump Punch leaves him in the helplessness state. Luigi is also one of the characters who get temporarily infintied by D3, try to get him out of it if you see it happening, as it puts a lot of % on the poor guy and refreshes a lot of D3's other moves.
Strength in Numbers - Luigi is very good at comboing people at low percentages, and can kill quite fine. Now while there may be a void between the two, this is where you come in! You are better at racking up damage, and staying on the move to harass your opponents. Let Luigi take care of the heavies, and you just worry about taking out the opponent that weights less, you're fast and precise enough to do it. Luigi also has a lot of tricks up his sleeve when it comes to your setups, it's an endless possibility!
Partnership Summary - While Luigi may have some problems, they don't technically outweigh his benefits... some could say the problems he has only helps him get further! This team gets a 6.5/10, nothing like the basics, eh? Just cover up his gaps, and he'll cover up yours. "You scratch my quills, I'll scratch your back!"
Stages of Preference - Luigi benefits from platforms (go figure) and low ceilings, take him somewhere where his opponents will get killed off faster in that manner, and the blastzones on the sides are closer. Battlefield/Final Destination in that order, and Corneria/Battleship Halberd/Brinstar for counterpicking.
Double Agent Contracts - Nobody pays attention to him, so chances are you don't/won't know a thing about him. Being serious now, Luigi has a decent recovery, but if he tries to get back on stage with the Missile, just Forward Smash him to the blast zone. Now if they're better and recovery with the Tornado, try to hit them out of it but don't let them touch the ground, it loses its use if he keeps using it and doesn't land. Luigi also has bad traction, so if you hit him in a shield you might not get punished OoS for doing so if you play your cards right... Spinshot moar!
Credit goes to Kigbariom for speaking on behalf of the Man in Green. I couldn't have done this write-up without your assistance!
Hint for character #7!
Credit goes to thecatinthehat for figuring out it was Diddy Kong... man I couldn't have come up with something better?
Ya see, nobody else can probably one-hand stand!
He's cool in the same sense as Ike, but instead of fighting for his friends he makes people trip. He won't be trippin' with us, correct?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Well, I've been hearing a lot of people saying how Diddy Kong is like Sonic in the sense that it is up to the player to make him good or bad in a team. For this time though, we're going to assume a lot of things and just say that we're playing with a kicka** Diddy Kong here. Diddy is Alright in one on one situations, but it is unknown to me how he fairs in two on one situations, so we'll scratch that bogey.
General Compatibility - Diddy Kong is infamous for a bunch of stuff. For one thing, the power behind his Smashes SUCK! So I herd ya liek
Risks/Partner Dependency - Remember when I said that Diddy Kong doesn't have a lot of power behind his attacks? Well yeah, I don't know how Diddy Kongs get their kills, but they sure ain't gonna get it anytime soon unless something goes wrong. Now considering you have Diddy tossing bananas out, and friendly fire on, they can mess you up as much as they can throw off their opponents. His Up-B may get him some distance, but it isn't exactly safe, not on charge, and not on the lag/helplessness state.
Strength in Numbers - I'll tell you though, if either you and/or Diddy Kong are good at Banana control, it is really hard for the opponents to get momentum on the battle. Sonic and Diddy can also get around pretty well even if the Bananas aren't in their control (though it would be nice), Diddy has some nice combos and the like, and his throws are worthy of mention.
Partnership Summary - Diddy isn't the best partner to have, but he isn't the worst. At least if you two get into best case scenarios, it won't get TOO hairy. 4.5/10 unfortunately, because we have to be realistic, and things can and will go wrong. Now while people say Sonic and Diddy aren't good partners to have on any team, you will have your reasons, so don't let anybody (or this guide for that matter) getc'ya down!
Stages of Preference - Now what's really inconvenient here is that Diddy works better on "flat" stages, and I'm unsure of what he does bad on. At least you do alright on level stages as well. Final Destination/Smashville (TN) are decent Neutrals, and maybe for CPs you should go to walkoffs so Diddy won't have to be using his recovery. Delfino Plaza & Castle Siege might do the trick for Counterpicks.
Double Agent Contracts - Diddy has some stupid Naner tricks... he can almost lock you in place if he makes you trip on one, and just keep throwing more naner peels at you. After which he locks you he can Throw/Smash you at high %ages and when you're right at the ledge. There really is not much else Sonic has to worry about other than keeping control of the Banana Peels and drop a Spring on Diddy's RocketBarrel recovery.
I didn't get too much information for Diddy Kong... in fact, more of it came from the Sonic Boards! *Sheesh* Anyway, I highly recommend you and/or your partner or whoever is reading this guide do some research of your own on Diddy and use your own judgment on how he will do with Sonic. This write-up is sadly neglected, and will most likely be redone in the future if not at least just be used as a rough draft for those too lazy to do much else. This one is still open for discussion if you have anything to add, really!
Hint for character #8!
Credit goes to MarKO X for figuring out that it was A-Papa Paper Marty-O!
"*Grrrr!*"
Mama Mia, he doesn't like being called "Marty-O!"... but the ol' timer in PP:TTYD called him that... anyway how good of a team player is he?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Mario was a character made by Nintendo a sometime about twenty years ago, and is still Nintendo's mascot to this date. Rumor has it there is not a single person in this world who doesn't know of Mario's being. Biography out of the way, Nintendo had aimed to make Mario the "basic" character of Brawl... and like much else in this game, have failed to accomplish that. Mario is placed in the SBR's version 1.0 tier list as low, and just like Sonic, has a bunch of good attributes to question what kind of drugs were the Smash Back-Roomers doing when they made their first tier list. Now while I make Mario look promising, I need to tell you that he is in the same court as Sonic where he does have his bad attributes and matchups, but was blessed enough to be able to work around this stuff.
General Compatibility - Mario is a team player that anybody can have without much argument. Mario has a bunch of cool stuff in his overalls pockets, to mention a few are the Cape, the Flash Liquidizer Ultra Dousing Device (F.L.U.D.D.), and his FIYAHBAWLS!!! Let's make a comparison since somehow Mario & Sonic are so similar. Mario has a recovery which is better than most of the cast, not too much range on his attacks (not including Fireballs or F.L.U.D.D.), a nice gimping game, and while he certainly isn't a Speedy Sonic or a powerhouse Bowser, he is fast and strong on his attacks... ah, I must admit he is quite mobile to an extent. Mario also has a quick Nair to get him out of combos and the like, just as you have your Spring. Not only that, but Mario can also use his SuperJump Punch to gain invincibility frames and such!
Risks/Partner Dependency - Mario can look out for himself as much as you can, but while he is a "median" character, even that has its bad sides. Mario won't be able to space properly with his Fireballs or F.L.U.D.D. if you are there in the way, his Cape can reflect projectiles, but if you happen to be in the path of that reflected projectile, you might not see it coming in time. Another bad thing with Mario is that his aerials are all easily shieldgrabbed and punished. Mario to my knowledge doesn't have the aerial acceleration to weave safely away if something goes wrong. Another bad thing about Mario is that he doesn't cover your bad matchups! Once again, another character who has it harder with D3's D-Throw CG, after 5 D-throws in place that is.
Strength in Numbers - Finally, the reason you WANT to have Mario on your side. Back in the SNES/Genesis days, Mario & Sonic were arch rivals... that's all gone and away now, and now that you two are in a 2vs2 team for Brawl, you two are quite fluent with one-another. Mario can Cape you to surprise your opponents, be it you are SpinDash Rolling right into his Cape, or just charging up a Sonic punch! Another good thing about Mario is that if recovery doesn't seem too opportune, he can stall in the air with his Cape, either allowing you enough time to rescue him, or if his problem is the opponent, knock 'em out of the way! Oh, did I mention that Mario can use the Cape on the opponent for a return-attack? Well replace Sonic with somebody like D3 Charging up their FSmash on Mario, and he can just turn him around to hit his ally! (Just be sure you aren't on the other side of the opponent when Mario is caping him or something.) Mario, to a slightly bigger extent, has the K.O. power you don't, and to a lesser extent has a smaller gimping game than you... but that is debatable. Reason being is because of F.L.U.D.D., now while not too many people can see it's potential, is a great tool to have, literally! Invented by the scientist professor E. Gadd, F.L.U.D.D. can push away things, help recovery (be it yours or his), and freeze opponents in the air, leaving them wide open for you to attack! Mario can also use his Fireballs as a means of saving you, now I know this doesn't make sense, but it's perfect, since it doesn't do too much damage or knockback, but it still refreshed your pseudo-helpless state assuming your in it, letting you Spring up again! Mario also has a killer Back-Throw, and a nice setup from his D-Throw. I forgot to mention Mario has a combo game (OMGWTFHAXNERFQQ!?!?), and can rack up damage fast!
Partnership Summary - Big summary, eh? It should, Mario is a promising guy who won't let you down! He has the dedication to CONSTANTLY rescue a damsel-in-distress day in and day out from the likes of Bowser! Mario and Sonic get a 8.5/10 for a team-grading. You two are independent individuals, yet if you wanted to, can make great things happens. The only reason the other 1 and a half point is missing, is because Mario doesn't cover your bad matchups and vice versa, and while not really lacking in any field, doesn't excel as much as MK does in his for example, but can do amazing things nevertheless.
Stages of Preference - Mario is a phenomenal man, no question. Any stage without thinking will do, so go to any neutral, it's fine. Mario is the king of platforming, and he's had to deal with worse! As for counterpicks, people have suggested to me that you take him to Rainbow Cruise... go figure. It's a Mario stage (or series... whatever), and is perfect for his good things and yours, and this stage covers up your bad sides as well as his! Don't forget to rescue Mario if he is in need, there are no ledges (except on the boat), and he can give you enough time to save him from a lost stock.
Double Agent Contracts - The Cape *****. Ryhmes out of the way, be sure he doesn't push you away with F.L.U.D.D. in your air-tripped state and then ledgehog you. You're the only hedgehog for goodness sake! *Ahem* just save your kill moves for later... or what little of them you as Sonic have... use a lot of UTilt/USmash to beat him on most aerial approaches, Fireballs are not going to really force you to approach.
I want to thank Matt0(0)7 for doing a good write-up and getting me started, Heromystic for telling me some things I did not honestly know about Mario before (he's also a good colleague of mine on this forum), and Judge Judy for just having a funny/cool name
Thanks guys, you're all awesome!Hint for character #9!
Credit goes to DDM and Xanthyr for correctly guessing (at the same time LOL WOW!) that it was Falco
Hands off my Bread, it's not for you!
Well then... If he won't share his Bread with us, should we still go ahead and give him Steak?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Alright, so Starfox has a second in command pilot, his name is Falco Lombardi, and while not a direct clone to Fox in SSBB, does have some similarities. Falco has a Stronger laser that is less rapid, a worse recovery (he is limited to Phantasm, not even Firebird covers a lot of distance...), arguably more K.O. power, a chaingrab as well as a possible lock on unteched opponents, and overall has a bag of weaponry up his sleeve. He is quite arrogant like Sonic, but can he be second in command when it comes to this two being a team? Well, let me tell ya!
General Compatibility - Falco has a bunch of stuff he can do to single opponents! His lasers alone are a threat, they force approaches, hinder some opponents in different ways, can be fired in ways to spice it up a bit, lock an unteched opponent and rack up damage, and lastly just prove a nuisance! Did I mention that they keep Falco's other moves fresh? so what can lasers do for Sonic? They can make the opponent come to Sonic/Falco assuming they are camping (and the opponent doesn't have a means to reflect them), and have low knockback, meaning if Sonic is in the pseudo-helpless state after a Spring, Falco can just simply revive him! Using the same idea, Falco can gimp unsuspecting opponents by firing a laser at them, but Hell this isn't Falco's only means of getting offstage K.O.s. Falco has his powerful Dair, Bair, and the Falco Phantasm, which has spiking properties! All of Falco's Smashes can be used to score K.O.s, as they all have the power to do so...as a Smash should (I mean c'mon, Sonic has his USmash, which at best racks up damage in normal situations...). Finally, Falco has his own reflector, just in case the opponents have some kind of projectile. Not only for reflecting stuff back, the Reflector can be used to trip, be used as a semi-mid ranged attack, and a bunch of other things I don't know. seems promising as he is a well-prepared fighter right? Wrong, this is Falco in 2vs2s were talking about here, and like all characters *coughexceptMKcough*, they all have their downsides. With Sonic specifically, here's the problems.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Falco to me seems like a camper, and Sonic is NOT a character to stay in one place! Falco can't use his lasers without having to risk hitting Sonic with them if he is out in the battlefield, and the reflector is discouraged if Sonic might be in the path of the projectile. The almighty Chaingrab is also discouraged because the opponent's partner can disrupt the process, assuming he isn't preoccupied with Sonic, is smart, etc. Remember how I told you Falco is a below-average recovery? Well no mater how people might want to argue this, is right. Falco's main way of recovery is his Phantasm, which on it's own is a great horizontal recovery, but this limits him because his other recovery, the Firebird, is PATHETIC! It covers less horizontal distance, and hardly raises Falco vertically, and not only that, but when trying to get back on the stage, only has 3 useable angles, that's right, it is short and linear! Mix that horrible 2nd recovery with the fact that both recovery are easily punishable, and you have Sonic worrying about saving Falco constantly if he gets knocked out of the stage. Falco's Fair is also sucky for non-semi-gimping purpose, it does little damage, can be SDIed out of easily, won't usually get K.O.s IF AT ALL,, and if Short Hopped (I even doubt Full Hopped) has a LOT of landing lag! Reflector has no hitbox coming back, has it's fair share of lag, and doesn't protect Falco as a Reflector shield really should. Drawbacks aside, Falco does have some things that can work with Sonic.
Strength in Numbers - Falco has the killing power Sonic doesn't have, with all of his Smashes being able to K.O., Bair, Dair, and Uair. Sonic can use the Spring to let Falco get into the air (he prefers it), and if Sonic doesn't score the first Star K.O., Falco might be able to come back on the recoil. Sonic can also play a slight Camper-style with Falco, and just protect Falco from an oncoming foes while Falco does the pressuring. With all this said, you might want to pick a stage where Falco's recovery isn't easily manipulated and a more or less flat stage so the both of you can TRY to make your opponents go insane.
Partnership Summary - Falco has his Bread, he prefers the air, he likes Pizzacake, he doesn't want you to try him. Silly gags aside, his playstyle might seem to clash a lot of with Sonic's, but it can be worked with to an extent. So Falco/Sonic can share their Bread/Steak to make a half-decent sandwich, but to make it tastier (I know, right?), they still need some more condiments, which is why these Iron Chefs gets a 4/10.
Stages of Preference - Short and Sweet like Food, Final Destination/SV (TN) for neutrals, and Delfino Plaza/Green greens for Counterpick stages. If possible, avoid Pictochat/Lylat/Rainbow Cruise/Frigate Orpheon.
Double Agent Contracts - Falco is really annoying with Lazers, granted in a 2 on 2 they won't be as much as a problem, but they still stop you in your tracks with his other moves more refreshed and you that much clsoer to death. Reflector also stops you dead in your tracks on any ground approaches if he times it right, and he can still put up a good fight in the air with things like Nair/Bair. Use mindgames to your best effort, and use lots of Bairs/gimps. Remember his recovery is not the best so if you get him offstage read him and punish him.
Sadly, there wasn't too much information from either side to directly quote anybody. Lucky for you, I used to main Falco for a good while, so I knew then what he could do, and to an extent, still applies today, and with Sonic. Regardless, you should go do your own homework on Falco to get a better idea.
Bare with me, I know this font is rather hard to read, but just highlight it if you can't read it.
Hint for character #10!
Credit goes to MarKO X for figuring out it was Yoshi... boy, he sure does know his
You won't footstool me... will you...?
I'd say we have a lot more things to worry about than betrayal when it comes to working together on the warzone, don't you think?
Ally/Hero's Broad Description - Yoshi is like Sonic that playing him will take some dedication, and a broad kmowledgknowledge Yoshi can do. Yoshi has some insanely hard ATs to perform, but at least he is the closest a low tier character is going to get to becoming a Meta Knight counter. Yoshi has no good 3rd jump, but this can be supplied by Yoshi's Egg Toss, amazing second jump, and his aerial speed, which is the highest in this game... That's right, he's even faster than Jigglypuff in the air, and his aerial acceleration is good enough to let Yoshi move around just a little bit. Yoshi has a mean aerial game, and a ground game that is awkward to be able to throw anybody off... just make sure you don't get caught in any of these shenanigans!
General Compatibility - Yoshi & Sonic are characters who can be played in different ways, with Yoshi having less versatility when it comes to partnering up with Sonic. Yoshi has a Nair which is a C-C-C-Combo-Breaker!!, an Uair that kills really early, a disjointed Bair that is the equivalent to Sonic's Fair, A dair that has multi-hit moves, racks up damage easily with it, and I heard it spikes (don't quote me on that). Did I mention Yoshi has a Fair that spikes? Pretty much sets up the opponent for any of Sonic's attack should he be there to punish the opponent. Either player can play aggressively/defensively, just make sure neither of you are doing the same thing, you put yourselves in an unfavorable place by doing so. That explains the less versatile part about Yoshi (but doesn't this hold true for everybody in doubles?), so please don't flame me if I got that wrong. Yoshi has an Egg Roll (new food meme?) that acts in the same way as Sonic's Spincharge, except with less speed and more power. Yoshi's neutral-B puts the opponent in an egg, making them completely vulnerable for either a kill move, or just a really fast and reliable way to get damage on the opponent being unable to do anything but mash the movement stick on their controller to get out.
Risks/Partner Dependency - Don't get hit by any of Yoshi's moves, they have quite a punch to them. The Yoshi bomb for example, has insane priority/kill power, and in the case of your opponents is really hard to punish. The power gets multiplied even more if Yoshi does the move grounded, knocking anybody right into murder. Don't let Yoshi encase you in an egg by accident either, you become completely useless until you are able to move again, and the same stuff will apply to your opponents being able to work some crazy junk on you. Yoshi has a lot of lag on his grabs, but it's all worth it if he gets them off. Now before you assume they are bad in general, they aren't. It's just the same analogy with Sonic about how his grab range is really short, but things can happen if you get grabbed by Sonic. High risk, high reward. Yoshi also has one of the worst shields in the game, being unable to grab/attack immediately out of shield. The only upside is that Yoshi can't be shield-poked
Strength in Numbers - Yoshi has the same playstyle as you, but some things changed added. for one, he has more killmoves, but like you has trouble landing them. Yoshi also has a nice way of keeping opponents at a distance and dealing damage from there, for example Jab, Nair, and perhaps Egg Toss. Yoshi's FSmash has bout as much disjointedness and Kill power as yours, USmash having insane range on it as well as having kill power, and DSmash being reasonably good. Some of Yoshi's attacks send opponents at a low angle, meaning any opponent who can't recover that well from that angle will be having trouble with Yoshi, like all the spacies and Ike.
Partnership Summary - While Yoshi & Sonic are similar, they have to adjust to what the situation calls for, and how their partner behaves... a lack of communication will make this team horrible, but if all things go according to plan, this team out to do decent enough to receive a grading of 7/10. At least Yoshi & Sonic can do some nasty team attacks, and being able to watch out for one another to an extent. One more thing to keep note of is that Yoshi has Egg Rolls, Sonic has Steak... make it work out!
Stages of Preference - Take Yoshi somewhere where he won't have to rely so much on recovery, and preferably walkoff stages if they are good at carrying opponents to the blastzone like King Dedede. A little bit of space is nice too, so you two won't have to work as hard to work together... any neutral but Lylat Cruise should be fine (assuming it is a neutral), and as for counterpicks, go with Delfino Plaza/Luigi's Mansion.
Double Agent Contracts - Yoshi is more trheatening in the air than he is on the ground, so make most of your attacks from there, but be sure not to get grabbed. If you do, just Spring if he tries to do any of that CG business, you'll clear the way and give him an extra 4% damage, but be careful of being fooled into Springing when he isn't going to go after you right after. Don't try to space your aerials, just use Bair/Uair, Yoshi has crazy speed in the air, and some rpetty good momentum, not to mention his Nair combo-breakers, and his own Bair is pretty disjointed.
Credit goes to the Yoshi boards for being a bit too lazy to talk the discussion to the master thread... but at least they helped me more than some of the other character boards did... *cough*
If you want more information on Yoshi, go to their respective character boards... good luck though, as if playing Sonic didn't take some commitment on it's own, Yoshi is a difficult character to master himself.
The guide continues from here on out, I got rid of my sig on the first OP so that you won't get confused for that as part of the guide. What you see below you is the edit/directory of my changelogs somewhat if you actually keep up with this thread, disregard that if you are just reading the guide for the data regarding the game. Yes sir, please enjoy the new format, and let me know if anything seems cut out or something.
