Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Sonic Orochi]

If it's from a SC (down B), then it's probably a VSCJ: just press A or jump when charging the move. You're then pretty much free to do whichever aerial afterwards.

If it's from a SD (side B), then it's a VSDJ. For this one you can only use the A button, as using jump will send you into a VSDJ2, which is an aerial version of the "charging SD" (it doesn't really charge at all, though. Yeah, it's stupid).

 

[kj22]

It sounded like he was referring to just jumping out of an aerial spindash, "canceling" it with a jump then you're free to do w.e.


Oc a video example would clear away everything

 

[MoosyDoosy]

If it's from a SC (down B), then it's probably a VSCJ: just press A or jump when charging the move. You're then pretty much free to do whichever aerial afterwards.

If it's from a SD (side B), then it's a VSDJ. For this one you can only use the A button, as using jump will send you into a VSDJ2, which is an aerial version of the "charging SD" (it doesn't really charge at all, though. Yeah, it's stupid).

So there's no practical application for this VSDJ2?

It sounded like he was referring to just jumping out of an aerial spindash, "canceling" it with a jump then you're free to do w.e.


Oc a video example would clear away everything

Haha yeah, a video showing each of these would be really nice. As it is, I don't know if I'm performing the AT's correctly and I'm trying to visualize them in my mind.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

VSDJ2 is, as many of Sonic's ATs are, just another mixup, albeit a very bad one.

 

[Camalange]

Those aren't even AT's though... Just mechanics.

Unless you're referring to Spinshot? That's what I want to think when I hear "jump canceled" because jumping out of SD or SC isn't a cancel... It's just a function of the move.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Well, if we're talking about REAL Sm4sh ATs we should do it in an appropriate timeframe.

 

[Gregory2590]

why does sonic get no at

 

[ROOOOY!]

Are we calling VSDJs from Brawl VSCJs now? Good.

VSDJ (2?)s aren't really that bad. I like them against people who use projectiles, cos you can close the gap on them with it whilst being able to shield if you **** up your timing, assuming its not fully charged of course.

 

[VKatana]

My experience with the matchup is somewhat limited but I'm having better luck against Diddy with Sonic lately. Does SD/SC ignore/destroy banana? I have a feeling it doesn't, but I'm not 100% sure.

I actually enjoy playing the vs. Diddy MU immensely. You'll just clank with the banana and get rid of it. Ironically, Diddy is one of the few characters I actually enjoy playing against in this game. I suppose its more so a matter of player rather than character, but so many matches feel like passing a kidney stone. Rosaluma, Falcon, ZSS, Luigi, oi vey...

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Are we calling VSDJs from Brawl VSCJs now? Good.

VSDJ (2?)s aren't really that bad. I like them against people who use projectiles, cos you can close the gap on them with it whilst being able to shield if you **** up your timing, assuming its not fully charged of course.

VSDJ and VSCJ are similar to Brawl's while VSDJ2 is the new vertical jump from SD.

And yes, it is that bad, unfortunately. I mean, you can shield cancel it indeed but if it fully "charges" in midair, you won't be able to shield cancel it anymore (AND it won't really be charged, you know). Most of the time you're better off using a running -> powershield anyway.

It only seems to barely work against people who have no clue about how the move works, and, although that's a LOT of people, I'd still advise against using it more than once or twice per match.. or at all.

I actually enjoy playing the vs. Diddy MU immensely. You'll just clank with the banana and get rid of it. Ironically, Diddy is one of the few characters I actually enjoy playing against in this game. I suppose its more so a matter of player rather than character, but so many matches feel like passing a kidney stone. Rosaluma, Falcon, ZSS, Luigi, oi vey...

It's kinda like Brawl, where Sonic vs MK was quite enjoyable as well.

 

[New Age Retro Hippie]

I just got ****in' bopped 2-0 by a Mega Man. What options do you have against this guy? The MU feels seriously impossible. That was super discouraging.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

HA over projectiles.

 

[Camalange]

I actually enjoy playing the vs. Diddy MU immensely. You'll just clank with the banana and get rid of it.

Then you're in clank lag so they get their free Hoo-Hah anyway, so you might as well have tripped.

Long gone are the days when Sonic could just spin over them. Sigh.

I suppose its more so a matter of player rather than character, but so many matches feel like passing a kidney stone. Rosaluma, Falcon, ZSS, Luigi, oi vey...

I agree with these.

Mega Man can be legit challenging for Sonic, but idk enough about it to properly explain.

 

[VKatana]

Was taken 2-1 in tourney today by a Peach. No idea how to fight that character. Sometimes Sonic's options feel so limited. I really had no idea what to do, that was one of the few times I've actually felt helpless in an MU. Presence of mind and maintaining your mix ups is key, I suppose...
Discouraging times. I kinda just went 'spin to win' but kept getting punished and going too hard for back throw kills... by the last stock of the third match, we were both at 0% so it was technically even at that point, but mentally, I had already lost the match. So stressful.

 

[Camalange]

You have to respect a lot of Peach's ****. Again, her neutral and aerials are all better than ours, so auto-pilot spin to win, despite being inherently awful, is going to get you bodied in that match-up. Her shield pressure is really good too. You have to basically just not let yourself get too close because she can eat shields and outprioritize you. It's a lot of patience and spacing with mostly Uair juggles and Bairs. Even grabbing her is difficult because she's floating so often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyuJcNiIk_0&feature=youtu.be&t=1h45m55s

Maybe this could help? My set against Dark.Pch some time ago. You'll notice that both times I died were due to bad Spin Dash/Charge that got bodied by her Fair.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I find the Mega Man MU fun tbh.(granted my partner for doubles uses mega man so i kind of understand how he plays) From my experience mega man feels a lot like brawl sonic to me. A character who has the potential to be good but is limited due to having a hard time killing and thus has to rely on good reads, hard punishes and playing patient. Granted mega man does this through his own methods fighting the character as sonic i always just feel like i'm fighting a projectile based version of what sonic used to be.

As for playing against peach i always like when peach floats because it's a free chance to short hop fair her. Especially if we are able to weave outside a whiffed fair and run back in. That or at high % i;ll just run in a usmash her while she's floating. But when she isn't floating all the time you really have to respect her neutral game and either shield and catch her turnips or Z catch them and throw them back.

 

[VKatana]

You have to respect a lot of Peach's ****. Again, her neutral and aerials are all better than ours, so auto-pilot spin to win, despite being inherently awful, is going to get you bodied in that match-up. Her shield pressure is really good too. You have to basically just not let yourself get too close because she can eat shields and outprioritize you. It's a lot of patience and spacing with mostly Uair juggles and Bairs. Even grabbing her is difficult because she's floating so often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyuJcNiIk_0&feature=youtu.be&t=1h45m55s

Maybe this could help? My set against Dark.Pch some time ago. You'll notice that both times I died were do to bad Spin Dash/Charge that got bodied by her Fair.

Holy **** Camalange I had no idea you were so clutch! Fantastic stuff, thanks for sharing! Seems like Peach noticeably gives Sonic a hard time... guess we can add this to the list of Sonic's bad MUs.

 

[kj22]

You have to respect a lot of Peach's ****. Again, her neutral and aerials are all better than ours, so auto-pilot spin to win, despite being inherently awful, is going to get you bodied in that match-up. Her shield pressure is really good too. You have to basically just not let yourself get too close because she can eat shields and outprioritize you. It's a lot of patience and spacing with mostly Uair juggles and Bairs. Even grabbing her is difficult because she's floating so often.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyuJcNiIk_0&feature=youtu.be&t=1h45m55s

Maybe this could help? My set against Dark.Pch some time ago. You'll notice that both times I died were do to bad Spin Dash/Charge that got bodied by her Fair.

That....up-air...killed....

Lol tbh how you played your last stock is how you should always play, **** getting hit.

You escaped death a few times (popped out dash attack, he couldve traded/hit you with bair a few times you were close.

Really greedy on those ledge guards(; (fsmash, downsmash) Took alot of unnecessary damage because of it and only converted once(?) You still won though so props!

 

[Sonic Orochi]

HA is kind of a counter to Peach's float tbh. It works specially well when they use it before their 2nd jump to recover.

 

[Camalange]

Holy **** Camalange I had no idea you were so clutch! Fantastic stuff, thanks for sharing! Seems like Peach noticeably gives Sonic a hard time... guess we can add this to the list of Sonic's bad MUs.

I don't think it's as bad as it was in Brawl, but definitely a challenge. The edge we have now though is that in Brawl, we basically wanted the ground and she wanted the air, but neither Peach or Sonic could kill... Now, Sonic can kill.

That....up-air...killed....

Lol tbh how you played your last stock is how you should always play, **** getting hit.

Yeah, that was pretty hype. Low ceiling, max rage, Uair, etc. I knew I wouldn't win unless I embraced the rage and just went reckless.

You escaped death a few times (popped out dash attack, he couldve traded/hit you with bair a few times you were close.

Really greedy on those ledge guards(; (fsmash, downsmash) Took alot of unnecessary damage because of it and only converted once(?) You still won though so props!

Admittedly I could've played safer, and this was some time ago, but I think my heart really is what persevered in this set, lmao.
For some reason I kept going for the clutch and it was working so... I just kept believing.

I think my ledge game is a hell of a lot stronger now. I was pretty on point today at least.

HA is kind of a counter to Peach's float tbh. It works specially well when they use it before their 2nd jump to recover.

Eh

HA is not the answer to everything... Or most things, lol.
A bad HA or just too many HAs are really easy for Peach to bait and beat with like literally any aerial.
It has its uses, though. Mostly for interrupting, imo.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Well, that's a given, but still, it's better than letting Peach play her floating game as she pleases. Just adding a HA here and there will make the opponent guess your next move, and that's always a plus when playing a character that has no good approaches such as Sonic..

 

[kj22]

I'm a homing attack believer. Plus you have an inherent mix-up with it, the slow version and the fast version ;P

Doing it right after after spindashing through someones shield teaches them not to chase you.

In neutral's iffy unless you have the read.

EDIT:
here's some examples vs denti
http://www.twitch.tv/houstongameguys/b/639760062

04:38:27

Think I do it twice/thrice and each time get away unscathed. Played really bad this set though ;< Too many tech errors and misinputs

 

[EyexSore]

Anybody got any way for me to get in quick damage when opponent's vulnerable other than just dash attacking into them? Far too often do I just get punished for that, cuz of Sonic's massive end-lag for that.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Anybody got any way for me to get in quick damage when opponent's vulnerable other than just dash attacking into them? Far too often do I just get punished for that, cuz of Sonic's massive end-lag for that.

I'm assuming you mean that their recovery time is going to be short. In that case dash attack and grab are your best options, I believe.

 

[EyexSore]

I'm assuming you mean that their recovery time is going to be short. In that case dash attack and grab are your best options, I believe.

I'm assuming a Down grab would be the best option just for wracking up damage.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

I'm assuming a Down grab would be the best option just for wracking up damage.

Dthrow does 7%, which is more than dash attack already (6%). DA sends them upwards whereas Dthrow sends them horizontally-down-ish. It all depends on where on the stage you are, if the opponent knows how to tech the Dthrow, if they're at juggling or KO percents, etc.

 

[Camalange]

If it's anywhere not near a ledge where B-throw or D-throw would be used, I'd almost always suggest U-throw in every other situation. Especially early game. Leads to true combos, puts them above you which is ideal stage positioning, etc.

 

[LightSpeed]

How do I get kills as Sonic now that bthrow is nerfed? What are the best ways to kill villager or characters you can't esgeguard?

 

[EyexSore]

Oh wow! I never thought of using the Uthrow. Now that I think about it, I can follow it up pretty easily too.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

How do I get kills as Sonic now that bthrow is nerfed? What are the best ways to kill villager or characters you can't esgeguard?

By using our Brawl-fu.

Uthrow to Spring Uair, FSmash and USmash reads, in that order, mostly. Full charge HA and Bair are also some viable options. Dair spike setups are also possible, but totally situational.

 

[EyexSore]

How the heck do you use his Dair as a spike anyway?

 

[Camalange]

Sweetspot Nair and Fthrow can start to kill really late game too. Around 140% or higher, rage and stage help.

Bthrow is still a viable kill throw too, but it's not as godlike anymore.

How the heck do you use his Dair as a spike anyway?

We (mostly Orochi) are (is) actually breaking down some Dair spike tech if you take a look at the moveset thread, lol.

 

[EyexSore]

So it's a sweetspot move?

 

[Camalange]

So it's a sweetspot move?

The sweetspot of Nair has the most knockback, yes.

And there's only a couple frames during Dair that will spike. The timing is odd, as it doesn't occur on start-up or towards the ending. It's like, awkwardly sandwiched in.

 

[EyexSore]

Ok, woah, that's kinda awkward. But I can make it work if I get the practice in. Though I don't know how people would find that out through regular play.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Cam, we should totally adopt VSJ and VSDJ instead of VSDJ and VSDJ2.

The new patch clearly shows us that VSJ is the same for both moves: both the SD and SC versions deal 3%, whereas SDJ and SCJ deal 3% and 6%, respectively.

 

[LightSpeed]

What do all the acronyms mean?

 

[EyexSore]

What do all the acronyms mean?

Check the beginning of the thread.

 

[Apollyon]

Been using Sonic for awhile now, I still can't wrap my head around this: What determines whether Sonic can jump out of a Spin Dash? (Side-B and Down-B) Often times I find myself using my Dashes, falling off the edge to fake out my opponent, and dying cause my jump is somehow gone.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Been using Sonic for awhile now, I still can't wrap my head around this: What determines whether Sonic can jump out of a Spin Dash? (Side-B and Down-B) Often times I find myself using my Dashes, falling off the edge to fake out my opponent, and dying cause my jump is somehow gone.

BSBS.