sonic does so little damage

[litlwing]

I think some people have talked about this but is it not crazy? If sonic charges a full charged... ANYTHING.... it does less then 19% at the most and i do not even need to talk about how weak his overall killing power is.

even though once you get going you can rack the damage but doing some complex combo and revolving around like 8 moves only to come out doing 40% tops is a little discouraging, it still takes alot longer to do the damage then say, a character like meta knight.

Honestly I feel meta knight is to strong for someone who attacks as fast as he does. his smashes are stronger and of course he deals out damage faster then a drunk mike tyson.

My point is though how do any of you all get around this? do you agree he is far to weak? or do you think he is balanced fairly (whats fair in brawl anyway? anything that is not snake?)

 

[Nicole]

it is true that sonic is pretty weak and it's not the easiest thing to kill someone with him BUT i don't think it's any easier to kill with meta. both characters need to get their opponents % up to at least 130-150 and land one of their smashes to outright kill them. the strength of meta is that his attacks have greater priority than sonic's and also, he can rack up damage faster (think tornado and AAA). however, i enjoy sonic more, as fewer people main him - or even take him seriously. also, his homing attack, when used properly (not to say i use it properly, i have a LOOONG way to go) can take out people at relatively low % (think 80 - 110) by means of aggressive edgeguarding and taking away the opponent's second jump.

i don't agree that sonic is far too weak. but i do agree that he takes LOTS of practice. i think he's balanced in the fact that he's a decent defensive character with great recovery and nice aerial moves. if he simply had priority (strength isn't really a factor) he would be easily as good as meta. again, because he doesn't have priority in his attacks, it takes practice to get used to him.

 

[Browny]

or do you think he is balanced fairly (whats fair in brawl anyway? anything that is not snake?)

this

sonics grab, pummels and throws more than make up for lowish damage on his other moves.

 

[Tenki]

XD keep in mind that Sonic's moves flow into each other pretty nicely. All his tilts deal around 10-15 damage while setting opponents up for more hits. Then you have the spin dashes that have inherent combos/set up mini combos for 10-20 damage - a pretty good deal considering how fast they can reach an opponent to punish a move. U-throw deals around 10 damage while setting up for aerials, d-throw deals low damage while setting up for tech chases.

The 'original' spin-dash combos (ground roll>(jump attack)> aerial) dealt around 15-25 damage if you somehow managed to get the moves to connect correctly.

The "newly discovered"/put-to-use Aerial Spin Charge (air down B), with stale move effect, deals a total of 15-21 damage from just that move alone while setting up for a 8-14 damage aerial attack. It usually nets you a total of 20-30 damage (assuming you do things like... start aerials too early). The 40% damage combo isn't so complex in input- it's a matter of getting all the hits from an ASC>roll to deal damage, then follow up with an aerial. The timing and DI requirements is all that makes it hard to do. XD

Special attack combos aside, even if you attacked in bursts, each burst should get you 10-40 damage, maybe even more, depending on how well you can follow up with a juggle.

Anyway, Sonic can still play the gimp game, and you don't really need too high of a % to KO that way. If you're having trouble dealing damage, go for a gimp.

 

[litlwing]

i use homing and spring gimps. but yeah i know what you mean with the spin combos and stuff its just he still seems weak damagewise like his attacks are hitting harder then they actually are. I guess its just like i said hitting with a whole bunch of attacks and not getting touched then getting hit by ike once and your loosing. no what i mean?

 

[Tenki]

^ don't forget D-air. Get comfy with it- it's an awesome gimp! Do it closer to the stage and you knock them low and away from the level. Do it a little later and you stage spike the person as they fly behind you xD (still working on doing that instead of the other one)

Yeah, I know what you mean with the whole damage vs effort thing, but Sonic's running speed should usually take care of that. lol I was at a friend's house earlier and tried to find a wifi match on allisbrawl. >_> I had problems trying to find someone to play with because they didn't want to play with a Sonic, saying "all Sonic does is run and use spindash from the other side of the level". It's a really nooby stereotype, but that is what annoys people - running away from their attacks so they can't hit you, then closing it in again to deal damage when they're not attacking (or can't attack).

Ah well. IMO, that trait or 'weakness' is what makes Sonic gratifying to play ^^;

 

[Boxob]

I always attack the weak point for massive damage.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I always attack the weak point for massive damage.

It's the essence of Sonic man.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Well, I disagree with some of you. Sonic IS far too weak and it's really noticeable against people he has a hard time grabbing and/or gimping. Comboing hardly makes up for this when your opponent consistently camps or resorts to hit-and-run tactics. Still, that's pretty obvious at the outset, and the fun part is thinking of creative and effective ways of overcoming your natural weakness using speed and trickiness.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i actually made a thread about this saying that i think that i think all of his moves should do 20% more damage.

its very true, MK is wayyyy too OP. you can say that its hard to kill with MK. but it isnt. he has plenty of stand-alone kill moves, and ones that you can use out of shield to boot. dsmash out of shield, up-b out of shield, and even if you dodge the up-b he comes right back and kills you with his super-ultra glide attack that has unnessicary knockback.

its also very hard to kill with sonic with out set-ups, even his 2 stand alone kill moves (f-smash, and back-air) cant be done without some kind of baiting or set- up. but i personally deal with this by using the fact that even tho you have to setup to kill, he can start these setups at 0 damage. as soon as they get out of the halo. make them roll to the edge of the stage and BAM! d-throw to b/n/d air, and there goes their second stock. he can folo you to the blastline, via a spin-charge edge jump, or the ceiling with the spring. so basically, im always going for the juggular, just because i can and it works.

also you should never, ever get hit by ike, if you do you should run off the edge promptly...j/k




and @ tenki, do you ever actually play the game.... you joined this month and already have more post than everyone here. when are you ever not posting so that you can actually play the game?

 

[litlwing]

lord yes the dair is one of my favorite things i like to full hop dair off the stage to chase people who are recovering and then spring back up to the ledge before they know what happened

And yes i agree sonic's speed is definitely his biggest strength considering hes #! its just that he cant even attack as fast as meta knight... but meta knight still does more damage and can even combo absurdly well.

personally i kinda like that sonic is not broken like some people i just feel he could have been able to deal a little more damage. then again having to try that much harder is fun and sonic is one of the funnest characters in the game.

 

[Tenki]

>_> considering stale move effect and how every one of his offensive specials diminish each other, the whole way through (each part, not just the roll), that really does suck for Sonic, considering those are his most damaging moves. I'll lean toward agreeing with people who said he's too weak now XD

@da K.I.D:
my wii doesn't have wifi access atm so i just post here instead, until it works again :3

playing against cpu sucks, but sometimes i find stuff and wanna bounce it off people to see what they think of it. people who use ASC now don't seem to mind lol

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

If you spin combo though the stale moves shouldn't matter once you chase. The resulting fairs and bairs should bring your spins back to normal or at least fairly close.

 

[litlwing]

lol well it is true he is weak. and meta knight is a god just try spaming mk's downsmash after anything, straight from the tornado or a glide and you will see that mk is about as broken as a man who just fought chuck norris.

 

[Umby]

The object of Sonic is not to do massive damage with his moves. It's to beat other characters perceived to be higher on the tier list while looking cool because you are Sonic and you beat someone who is perceived to be higher on the tier list.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i totally agree with you on that, it actually makes me more determined to be good with sonic since he isnt broken like the other characters. and he has a lot of good moves, but sometimes it does discourage me that he doesnt have anything absurdly strong to fall back on. so its basically a blessing and a curse. but basically sonic is my favorite video game character ever, so im gonna play him regardless of what happens.

for the record, if there was one thing i would change about him to give him that one thing i could fall back on and make him better, i would make the homing attack more accurate

 

[da K.I.D.]

teh umby, as always you speak (almost nonsencical) truth

and lol'd at chuck norris. its never out of place to name-drop when its chuck norris

 

[Umby]

Sonic would be much cooler if he had a drill kick for a dair or a sweep kick for a dsmash.

 

[litlwing]

The object of Sonic is not to do massive damage with his moves. It's to beat other characters perceived to be higher on the tier list while looking cool because you are Sonic and you beat someone who is perceived to be higher on the tier list.

win.

that is what sonic is about
making everyone look like fools while staying cool

also sonic could do with a rapid attack of some sort, i mean he moves his feat fast enough to make a figure-8 but he cant rapidly attack like say fox's jab or something

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I wouldn't say that Sonic is weak, but he has an easier time KOing things on small battlefields. Plus, he can rack up damage with some of his multiple hit moves. Still, Sonic tends to KO light weights more easily than the heavy weights.

He may not be the greatest fighter in a competitive environment, but he is fun to use in casual play.

 

[AchivemizzlePizzle]

sonic+competitive=no

 

[Umby]

sonic+competitive=no

Dumb shit like this is why I pushed Toon Link from my main to my secondary and stopped visiting Toon Link boards so much.

 

[TwinkleToes]

In his defense umby, it was a sound equation. He just forgot to carry the one.

 

[Sonic XD]

sonic+competitive=no

Oh here is a good one:

Snake > Toon Link

 

[Emperor Time]

How good do you think sonic would have been w/ his Sonic battle moveset?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Dumb shit like this is why I pushed Toon Link from my main to my secondary and stopped visiting Toon Link boards so much.

dumb crap like that is why Mr. 3000 won that tournament

and also seperates the good sonic mains from the people that happen to use sonic

 

[Seventh Sword]

The only reason Sonic is weak is because Nintendo has to tone down his strength. Kick from someone who can run at sonic speed? Yeah, that would break just about every character on the roster.

Sonic's 'strength' is more focused towards the potential unpredictability he has. Fighting dNES more than taught me how much Sonic can hurt you >_>;

 

[Umby]

MK is fast as shit and you don't see anyone toning him down.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Indeed. MK is ****ing broken.

What separates MK from Sonic is he has easily abusable moves and massive priority.

Sonic should ahve gotten the priority he deserves.
He smashes through steel and rock in his games why should a regula kick from ZSS outprioritize him.
The programmers are jerks

 

[TwinkleToes]

Well there's a huge difference between fast attacks and fast movement speed and both have completely different applications. MK's core movement speed is really slow so he needs to stay right in your grill to beat you.