Something SSB4 speculators haven't been paying enough attention to.

[FoxBlaze71]

Link to original post: [drupal=4765]Something SSB4 speculators haven't been paying enough attention to.[/drupal]



Everyone is wondering, putting up all sorts of ******** ideas, who will be in SSB4.

But what Brawl characters won't?

I think Sakurai will replace Lucario for some Unova trash and possibly change/eliminate PT.

Just curious about what everyone else guesses.

 

[Mithost]

It all depends on how much sakurai looked into discussions and opinions of the players on the competitive side. If he wants to make the game more competitive, he will do things such as give players more options and make characters/stages more balanced in the "tourney setting". If he wants to cater to casual players, expect more reckless stage designs (un-grabbable ledges, walk offs, warioware-like), tier lists going down to K tiers, etc.

 

[---]

Actually being one of those speculators I can safely say that we do talk about cuts. But we don't like to get into them all that much because they're not a fun discussion to get into in the first place.

If you have questions on who may be cut then just ask it on the SSB4 discussion thread. We don't like the topic but we're more the willing to share our thoughts on questions like this that people have.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

But we do. Cuts will happen just like additions, whether we like it or not.

Especially since everything else seems to need speculation.

 

[TL?]

I've heard they are building the new smash bros off of brawl/brawl's engine. If this is true, it's likely that everyone from brawl will return since they would only need adjustments.

 

[Deleted member]

............

 

[Katakiri]

You might not realize it but Brawl has an EXTREMELY solid roster of Nintendo stars. Lucario & Ice Climbers are the only 2 characters that don't deserve to come back. Pokemon Trainer may get replaced by Black, Snivy, Dewott, & Emboar but even then it's just PT with different Pokemon. Jigglypuff was the 4th to last character added to Brawl so it may be her time to go, but it's unlikely.

A better question is what truly deserves a spot in Smash 4?

 

[Jimnymebob]

Why don't Ice Climbers deserve to come back?
Sure, Lucario was pretty much a Mewtwo replacement, in the same way Remy replaced Guile, Hugo replaced Zangief etc., but out of the whole Brawl cast I think he has the least staying power, considering Mewtwo is still more popular a character in general, and he could be easily replaced by something like Zoroark, as nearly everyone has suggested/predicted.

But Ice Climbers?

 

[---]

Lucario replacing Mewtwo?

That whole argument was proven false a long time ago. Technically it was Sonic who replaced Mewtwo and Roy.


But anyway Brawl did have a very solid roster, and so far, even beating out newcomers, Mewtwo and Roy have the highest amount of character popularity for SSB4, especially in Japan. And making no cuts is not far behind. Plus the roster does have plenty of room for no cuts, Newcomers, Mewtwo, and Roy.

But if cuts do happen it will most likely affect Lucario, Snake and Sonic. Although from what people have stated, Lucario's popularity is far greater than the demand for a 5th Gen Pokemon so who knows what will happen.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

But Sakurai loves his noobs. I have a feeling "You *****es r too slow!" will have a second time around.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

You might not realize it but Brawl has an EXTREMELY solid roster of Nintendo stars. Lucario & Ice Climbers are the only 2 characters that don't deserve to come back. Pokemon Trainer may get replaced by Black, Snivy, Dewott, & Emboar but even then it's just PT with different Pokemon. Jigglypuff was the 4th to last character added to Brawl so it may be her time to go, but it's unlikely.

A better question is what truly deserves a spot in Smash 4?

Ice climbers have been in melee and brawl. Why cut them now? It makes no sense. Jigglypuff will stay. The original characters will stay.

And as for lucario, everybody likes Mewtwo better anyways, but he won't come back most likely.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

I'm starting to have my suspicions about Wario as well.

 

[Jimnymebob]

Lucario replacing Mewtwo?

That whole argument was proven false a long time ago. Technically it was Sonic who replaced Mewtwo and Roy.

As I said, if you read my post, Lucario replaced Mewtwo as a humanoid Pokemon who was popular at the time, and shared a projectile.
Nowhere in my post did I say Lucario=Mewtwo, I just stated that they were similar

in the same way Remy replaced Guile, Hugo replaced Zangief

which, if you know anything about Street Fighter, you'd realise that they shared the same ideas, Remy being a character with a Sonic Boom-esque projectile and a Flash Kick-esque move, and Hugo being the main (360 and 720) grappler of that game; having things like piledrivers and a lariat. However, these characters are nothing like their 'counter parts', as is the case with Mewtwo and Lucario.

 

[Tesh]

If they are really building on Brawl's engine, I don't see why they would cut content.

I'd really only be worried about Snake, Lucario and maybe Sonic not returning.

Oh and ROB, that piece of junk was a waste of time anyway. They could easily just remodel him into megaman.

 

[yani_]

Ice Climbers will stay. All ssb64 veterans will stay. There's honestly no reason to cut if they're using brawl's engine as a starting point. Everyone's already there, plus you got Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong half in there somewhere.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

If Sakurai wants to live, he will include Roy.

Dixie would be nice, but not really necessary.

ROB is ********. Yeah, he was good - in 2008. But he's just not necessary either.

 

[Xx NeutralAir177 xX]

Supposedly they're adding Capcom characters. Now, with that in mind, I can only see them adding MegaMan. Also, Sakurai said (not sure if this is confirmed) that SSB4 is intended to be 'balanced'. Not sure how this is going to unfold. :/

 

[Deleted member]

As I said, if you read my post, Lucario replaced Mewtwo as a humanoid Pokemon who was popular at the time, and shared a projectile.
Nowhere in my post did I say Lucario=Mewtwo, I just stated that they were similar

Mewtwo was planned for Brawl, so it couldn't have been replaced. Rather, it was cut due to time constraints.

 

[Johnknight1]

But we do. Cuts will happen just like additions, whether we like it or not.

Especially since everything else seems to need speculation.

There's nothing that proves or disproves cuts in any way, shape, or form in Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS. Honestly though, I have a hard time seeing a character with a unique move set being cut again, especially given how ridiculously popular Mewtwo is.

Trust me when I say this: If any character gets cut, it's Wolf. Wolf, although pretty unique for a clone, is definitely the least original and least popular character in the series. Star Fox as a series is practically dead (aside from the two remakes of the original Star Fox in Star Fox 64 and Star Fox 64 3DS), whereas Pokémon is slowly gaining on Mario, and together with the Mario franchise is the runaway best-selling duo of franchises of all-time, with the competition tens (and maybe even hundreds) of millions of units behind!

Pokémon's representation in Smash Bros. will only increase, whether just by one extra spot of amount of Pokémon representatives (currently we have 6, plus 2 cut Pokémon representatives in Melee), or all the way up to three. I guarantee it.

Trust me: I guessed nearly every character in Brawl before they were announced (minus ROB and the Pokémon Trainer), and I think I have figured out some of Sakurai's mentality.

As for the ROB-cut stuff, he's most likely staying put. I said the same thing with Ice Climbers and Game and Watch pre-Brawl, but most people used the same boring "no! he sux and is old!" argument. But you know what=??? They're unique (even if Ice Climber is a boring game). Sakurai loves whacky and original smash characters who are original, and the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, and yes, ROB fit in that category.

Like I said, if any character gets removed, it will be a clone or semi-clone recently added (which the only character that fits that category would be Wolf), time restraints aside (like what may have happened to Mewtwo and maybe Roy since Sonic was added).

And I can say this with near certainty: Sakurai ain't switching out the Pokémon Trainer for a newer one. He wants to stick with Red (he's Ash, we all know it), because he is a co-icon of the franchise with Pikachu. Plus, the first generation is the runaway most popular generation of Pokémon. I also don't see the 22 characters who were in both Melee and Brawl getting cut, unless of course the 3DS roster is smaller or severe time restraints happen.

But again, cuts cannot be proved or disproved. Once we get word as to whether there will be cuts, then we can start making somewhat accurate projections on veterans. I imagine Sakurai may say "yeah, 1 or 2 characters may not return." Before Brawl he said not all characters would return. He also said there would be "1-2" third party characters after Snake, although he said that number was somewhat flexible. Again, Sakurai will spill some of the beans before he gives away the whole bowl full of beans!

 

[Ghostbone]

Ice Climbers will stay. All ssb64 veterans will stay. There's honestly no reason to cut if they're using brawl's engine as a starting point. Everyone's already there, plus you got Mewtwo, Roy, and Dixie Kong half in there somewhere.

Mewtwo, Roy and Dixie are only in there as files...there's nothing in the files afaik.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Ghostbone
There are files in there, but we can't extract or use them. We do know that Mewtwo had his victory poses finished (unlike the other "Forbidden 7"), which is weird because Wolf's victory poses don't exist (instead, he uses Fox's with new words, a first in smash). That's something interesting.

Another interesting roster thing is that there is some unused poly gram graphics and data for Falco's Final Smash, which clearly was suppose to be a Arwing (there's videos of it to confirm it).

Also, I can guarantee you that Waluigi and Birdo won't be playable, as much as people continue to hype that they should be in (this has been happening since Melee was released). On top of that, minor characters in series who haven't appeared over the past half decade in said that have never been playable in smash-will not make it, period. This does not include main/key returning characters in series, especially retro series, obviously.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Those aren't as much as files as they are blank slots.

 

[Spelt]

People (I) have been saying lucario is gonna get replaced looong before the game was even announced....

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

I think Sakurai will replace Lucario for some Unova trash

Yaaaaaaaay!

 

[Jet300]

Link to original post: [drupal=4765]Something SSB4 speculators haven't been paying enough attention to.[/drupal]



Everyone is wondering, putting up all sorts of ******** ideas, who will be in SSB4.

But what Brawl characters won't?

I think Sakurai will replace Lucario for some Unova trash and possibly change/eliminate PT.

Just curious about what everyone else guesses.

I agree with you, they will Replace Lucario with another Pokemon character.

 

[Deleted member]

Having thought about it, I see no reason to cut any Nintendo vets from Brawl. The reason why cutting was easier to do in Melee was because Sakurai had many characters he added in as a clone late so they were easier to cut if they did not have the time. Brawl's roster was made from the ground up with no late additions (except for Sonic). It would be much harder to cut anybody from the roster then let's say, Pichu or Dr. Mario. There are no obvious clones, there are no joke characters, and every character's inclusion was positively received. The only way I see Nintendo vets being axed is if Sakurai runs out of time and looking by the fact that he's been giving an extra year to develop Uprising, he may very well have enough time to do so.

And considering that Mewtwo and Roy are highly requested to return, it is plausible to assume that Sakurai will try to bring back cut vets into SSB4 and Sakurai does tend to bring back cut material into the next game.

Mark my words, if there are any cuts that results from anything other then time constraints, Sakurai will cut third-parties first due to how difficult it is to get them in with legal issues and fitting them in. That's why Snake had a disjointed hitbox in Brawl and why third-party is not guarantee a return.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

Having thought about it, I see no reason to cut any Nintendo vets from Brawl. The reason why cutting was easier to do in Melee was because Sakurai had many characters he added in as a clone late so they were easier to cut if they did not have the time. Brawl's roster was made from the ground up with no late additions (except for Sonic). It would be much harder to cut anybody from the roster then let's say, Pichu or Dr. Mario. There are no obvious clones, there are no joke characters, and every character's inclusion was positively received. The only way I see Nintendo vets being axed is if Sakurai runs out of time and looking by the fact that he's been giving an extra year to develop Uprising, he may very well have enough time to do so.

And considering that Mewtwo and Roy are highly requested to return, it is plausible to assume that Sakurai will try to bring back cut vets into SSB4 and Sakurai does tend to bring back cut material into the next game.

Mark my words, if there are any cuts that results from anything other then time constraints, Sakurai will cut third-parties first due to how difficult it is to get them in with legal issues and fitting them in. That's why Snake had a disjointed hitbox in Brawl and why third-party is not guarantee a return.

This.

It's also amusing how some people suggest a ton of ******** crap that could never be included. I feel like it's the "SSB3" mania all over again.

 

[standardtoaster]

Mark my words, if there are any cuts that results from anything other then time constraints, Sakurai will cut third-parties first due to how difficult it is to get them in with legal issues and fitting them in. That's why Snake had a disjointed hitbox in Brawl and why third-party is not guarantee a return.

 

[Tesh]

Thats such an ugly animation, no wonder they made the move so fast.

 

[RespawningJesus]

I've heard they are building the new smash bros off of brawl/brawl's engine. If this is true, it's likely that everyone from brawl will return since they would only need adjustments.

I heard that they were going to use a completely different engine for the next Smash game.

However, talking about these cuts or who's going to be in the next game is ridiculous, as the game has yet to enter into the development stage. I would say wait a year or two for more word on SSB4, and then make predictions. It is far too early to say anything.

 

[Sol9000]

If They want to appeal to Competitive Gamers, here's what the plan is:

• Make a better online, as in less disconnecting, less lag, etc.

If They want to appeal to Hardcore Gamers, here's what the plan is:

• Just watch this video instead for details

If They want to appeal to Casual Gamers, here's what the plan is:

• Pit, R.O.B., Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch, and both Earthbound Characters will be removed.
• Lucario will be replaced with Zoroark (sic).
• Single Player Mode will drag on forever.
• Classic Mode and All-Star Mode will be DiskLocked Content
• Pokemon Trainer's neutral outfit will be Ash's new outfit in Gen 5.
• Crazy Hand will be nowhere to be found
• Sonic will wear a Trollface when he says "UR 2 SLOW"
• It will have more crap like the stickers.
• Tripping will automaticly occur every 10 seconds
• Trophies will be mandatory for completion of the story mode.
• You can only unlock the characters through the story mode.
• The Story Mode will have Tingle or Navi, Krystal, Mr. Dream and the Jersey Shore cast as the main protegonists.
• Blood will be introduced
• Swearing will be introduced
• It will be a first person shooter (or a shooter period)
• It will be M-rated
• The ability to turn off Items will be removed.
• It will have nothing but stages with hazards
• The Voice Actors will be from 4kids
• [REDATED]
• Tier Lists will be as low as Z
• It will be named Call of Duty Vs Capcom
• Half the budget will be spent on ZSS

 

[FoxBlaze71]

If you're serious about anything more than the better Wifi, you need to be shot.

 

[Sol9000]

If you're serious about anything more than the better Wifi, you need to be shot.

I am not serious with anything other then Wifi...

Does the video count? Cuz I agree with it to an extent

 

[Claire Diviner]

We can all speculate all we want. The fact of the matter is, we really cannot truly predict how Sakurai will tackle the project. Now, that said, many people have been saying how the online needs to be much better, and personally, I agree with that 100%. There are other things they should do, and there's a laundry list of things, though I'll only be repeating what has been said about 1000 times already.

As for cuts, it will be no surprise if Lucario is cut for - say - Zoroark, etc.. However, we all must remember the potential for possible DLC. Characters people wanted to see but didn't, or characters from Melee/Brawl that were cut from Smash 4 can be added later on, should Nintendo decide to release DLC characters. While the idea is a no-brainer by today's standards, we need to remember that Nintendo is new to the game. We can only wait and see.

 

[Loota]

Honestly I'm kinda surprised if Lucario gets cut since, as far as i remember, Sakurai himself came up with the idea of including him. He's also really unique thanks to aura and I doubt Sakurai would just leave out something like that as I don't see anybody else notable using aura.

Besides, the only characters that didn't make it to Brawl were the characters that shared a moveset and a similar character design with somebody else. Mewtwo was the sole exception but he was supposed to return so that doesn't really count. I really think that nobody will get cut except for Snake and Sonic if Nintendo and SEGA/Kojima won't come into an agreement about including them.

 

[FoxBlaze71]

I am not serious with anything other then Wifi...

Does the video count? Cuz I agree with it to an extent

That video was balls. It was just some casual *** whining about Brawl's modes and talking very little about actual gameplay. I mean, he's such a genius. Who the **** WOULDN'T want more massive stages? More ****ty camping, hooray!

He also completely flew around the complications that come with adding a third party character. Snake was a good choice, but they kiddified him so all you little tards really don't know who the **** he is and think he's just a guy in a box. Besides, there would be a ****storm of licensing and copyright issues Nintendo would have to waste time and money on just to add a bunch of unnecessary characters the casual community has been *****ing about since 08. Not to mention that ****head thought we needed MORE broken *** Final Smashes.

 

[Sol9000]

that video was balls. It was just some casual *** whining about brawl's modes and talking very little about actual gameplay. I mean, he's such a genius. Who the **** wouldn't want more massive stages? More ****ty camping, hooray!

He also completely flew around the complications that come with adding a third party character. Snake was a good choice, but they kiddified him so all you little tards really don't know who the **** he is and think he's just a guy in a box. Besides, there would be a ****storm of licensing and copyright issues nintendo would have to waste time and money on just to add a bunch of unnecessary characters the casual community has been *****ing about since 08. Not to mention that ****head thought we needed more broken *** final smashes.

Edit: I meant that when it came to hardcore gamers. Not Hardcore Smash fans!

Geez, you read too much into it

 

[UltiMario]

It will be named Call of Duty Vs Capcom
[/LIST]

MvC one of the best series that ever lived man

What's with the hate man

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I see the Smash series not as a fighting game, nor a party game or even as an competitive outlet. I see the series as a celebration of Nintendo's past, present, and future and an attempt to capture everything Nintendo has brought into the world into one single game. I see the Smash series as the only true Nintendo game that, at it's core, as a huge N; beating and breathing like a heart.

So if Smash 4 does this correctly, I'll be happy.

 

[Sol9000]

MvC one of the best series that ever lived man

What's with the hate man

No hate, bro. Just making fun of Capcom's suspicious business tactics

I see the Smash series not as a fighting game, nor a party game or even as an competitive outlet. I see the series as a celebration of Nintendo's past, present, and future and an attempt to capture everything Nintendo has brought into the world into one single game. I see the Smash series as the only true Nintendo game that, at it's core, as a huge N; beating and breathing like a heart.

So if Smash 4 does this correctly, I'll be happy.

AS WILL I