some stuff about bowser

[GeZ]

Hey Gimpy, any uses you can think of for Bowser's 20% side-taunt?

Gimpyfish hasn't been a part of the P:M scene for a while. My condolences.

 

[Abeebo]

Hey Gimpy, any uses you can think of for Bowser's 20% side-taunt?

Funny. I've been trying to figure that one out since demo 2.5, and I've come to the conclusion that its best left as a taunt. No knock back OR hit stun allows the opponent to escape it easily after any of the five hits.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Funny. I've been trying to figure that one out since demo 2.5, and I've come to the conclusion that its best left as a taunt. No knock back OR hit stun allows the opponent to escape it easily after any of the five hits.

What about shield damage, since Bowser is ALL about shield damage?

 

[deadjames]

Funny. I've been trying to figure that one out since demo 2.5, and I've come to the conclusion that its best left as a taunt. No knock back OR hit stun allows the opponent to escape it easily after any of the five hits.

I was playing dubz the other day and used it to wake up my partner after he double rested our opponents as Jiggs.

 

[Abeebo]

Yea, that'll work.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

I was playing dubz the other day and used it to wake up my partner after he double rested our opponents as Jiggs.

..Jab suffices.

 

[deadjames]

..Jab suffices.

I know, but it served the purpose of taunting my opponents and waking up my partner, it's a win-win situation.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I was playing dubz the other day and used it to wake up my partner after he double rested our opponents as Jiggs.

Use the jab. Especially because the taunt does 20% damage. I find it bad to use taunts, time wasted taunting could well be used setting yourself up for when your opponents respawn.

 

[deadjames]

Use the jab. Especially because the taunt does 20% damage. I find it bad to use taunts, time wasted taunting could well be used setting yourself up for when your opponents respawn.

He only got his by the first hit, plus it was wifi, it's not like it mattered.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

use the taunt in teams to keep them in your opponents grab duh

 

[DarkStarStorm]

use the taunt in teams to keep them in your opponents grab duh

Sort of like a team wobble.
Gimpy, what would you say the best teammate for Bowser is?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

the best teammate for bowser is dont use bowser in teams

 

[deadjames]

Personally I think Bowser is pretty solid in teams, I've had good luck with Jiggs and Ganon as teammates.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

he's big and fat and gets in everyone's way and you're going to hit your teams partner who wont be ready to DI from a hit he doesnt' expect to take so he's gonna die and you're get combod to 8 billion percent and die fast

 

[deadjames]

he's big and fat and gets in everyone's way and you're going to hit your teams partner who wont be ready to DI from a hit he doesnt' expect to take so he's gonna die and you're get combod to 8 billion percent and die fast

I didn't take/or deal out a single hit to my partner in my last doubles tourney, if you practice the team enough it kind of becomes a non-issue. Also, I've never had Mario, Peach, or Fox as teammates, but in theory they would be good partners because they're just good in dubz in general.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i'm very happy for you

bowser is still really bad in teams

he has a really limited utility when he can't throw out giant hitboxes because his team mate exists

he's really bad at saving his teams partner

he gets hit by freaking everything without a chance to get proper spacing because there are so many people everywhere

take it to like castlevania and make it 2 1v1 matches going on at once and he's just ok because your opponents dont have to play to how you want to play

 

[deadjames]

he's really bad at saving his teams partner

This is the only part I agree with.

 

[Abeebo]

the best teammate for bowser is dont use bowser in teams

I always found it odd that your seemingly most shared advise for Bowser is to not be Bowser. I thought you made him much gooder than melee. Like, its giving me doubts about my PM Bowser, bro. Y u do dat?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Bowser is my favorite, and the coolest character in project m. I feel he is also one of the strongest. Here is some cool stuff he can do

- up B at low percent gives you knockdown on fox, falcon, and other fast fallers. Doesn't have to be the initial hit, but any part of the move knocks them down. Nice momentum breaker and can pre-emptively be used to anti-air short hops

- sh flame cancel is great for stuffing grab attempts and ike's side b. Quick spurts are nice and don't have too much recovery

- mash nair if you want to break a combo

- fair hits above, below, and behind Bowser. Godlike move and kinda overpowered lol

- bair is ridicously strong now and the angle kills at low percent

- melee style edgeguarding with repeated ledge getup attacks still works like a charm. Finish with a bair or Bowser bomb.

- after a knockdown, Bowser now has the speed (or size I guess) to catch getup rolls away with his dash grab. If you can't catch em, you'll be right in their face anyway which is where you wanna be. Dthrow is a good initiator for a knockdown. People get scared a lot and want to tech away, so its nice that Bowser can catch this, especially on small stages.

- under the tower on hyrule 64 is such a good camping spot

- Bowser dominates small stages in general, especially metal Mario and melee yoshis story, its kinda not fair lol.

- crawling through projectile spam is nice and nullified many projectile games. Pikachu, ivy, falco, sheik, Mario, etc with weak projectiles are not very problematic and it is easy to get in. Stronger projectiles like those of link and snake are much harder to deal with

- Bowser bomb can catch the ledge facing either direction, so even when you are in the middle of the stage you can run toward the ledge and short hop Bowser bomb for a powerful edge guard.

- point blank is a kinda hard position to get in and grab hitbox for side b is kinda small, so it has limited use

- grounded up b to ledge grab from any point on the stage is wayyyy easier to do now than it was in melee. just slide off and hold toward the stage, timing is mad easy.

- his huge body and no light shield makes getting shield poked a weakness

- when in doubt crouch/crawl because it forces your opponents to choose stronger attacks. For some characters like zss these moves are very hard to implement since Bowser can crouch nearly all of her fast grounded attacks. Crouch, up b out of shield, and his ledge game are the crux of his defense and make him very annoying to deal with. I want to practice crouch armor into up b to counter moves lol

What a cool character ! :D

The problem is that he suffers against characters like Zelda, who excel at stage control. Among these are Diddy, Snake, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

 

[Abeebo]

The problem is that he suffers against characters like Zelda

The FPHucking BANE of my M existence.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I saw I a Samus Bowser team, it worked really well, if I can find the link I'll throw it to you.

Personally I think Bowser is pretty solid in teams, I've had good luck with Jiggs and Ganon as teammates.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

This is the only part I agree with.

Same here, he handles 2v1 fairly well well, and as long as his teammate is such that they don't get in his way, he's fine.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Maybe a Bowser|Jiggs or Bowser|Zelda or even Bowser|Samus.

 

[deadjames]

The problem is that he suffers against characters like Zelda, who excel at stage control. Among these are Diddy, Snake, Zelda, and Ganondorf.

Personally, I've never had much trouble against Zelda or Snake, but that's not to say that I think to MU is in Bowser's favor, I just think he has much worse. I agree Diddy is a ***** to fight as Bowser, also imo Bowser destroys Ganon, the only thing Ganon really has against him is that he can get some ridiculous Flame Choke tech chases because Bowser's tech roll is garbage so you have to be careful shielding too much because a smart Ganon player will pick up on that and start command grabbing you to death.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Personally, I've never had much trouble against Zelda or Snake, but that's not to say that I think to MU is in Bowser's favor, I just think he has much worse. I agree Diddy is a ***** to fight as Bowser, also imo Bowser destroys Ganon, the only thing Ganon really has against him is that he can get some ridiculous Flame Choke tech chases because Bowser's tech roll is garbage so you have to be careful shielding too much because a smart Ganon player will pick up on that and start command grabbing you to death.

That's why I listed him, if a Pro Bowser went up against Kage, you KNOW that the Bowser would get his head handed to him. No offense Gimpy.

 

[deadjames]

That's why I listed him, if a Pro Bowser went up against Kage, you KNOW that the Bowser would get his head handed to him. No offense Gimpy.

You could argue that for any MU really, depending on the caliber of the players any MU could go either way, but in terms of the characters' tools and their current metagames (albeit underdeveloped) I feel that Bowser has a significant advantage against Ganon.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

You could argue that for any MU really, depending on the caliber of the players any MU could go either way, but in terms of the characters' tools and their current metagames (albeit underdeveloped) I feel that Bowser has a significant advantage against Ganon.

I agree that he does have some advantages, but I would say that this particular MU is all about momentum. Once GD starts tech-chasing Bowser (nicknamed Bosser), it's over, once Bowser spaces GD correctly, it's over. But this is just conjecture for me, I'm a Zelda main.

 

[deadjames]

I agree that he does have some advantages, but I would say that this particular MU is all about momentum. Once GD starts tech-chasing Bowser (nicknamed Bosser), it's over, once Bowser spaces GD correctly, it's over. But this is just conjecture for me, I'm a Zelda main.

That is true, but I feel like Bowser's reads have to be less amazing to gain the upper-hand, especially since Ganon has to keep the reads going to keep the tech-chasing going.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

That is true, but I feel like Bowser's reads have to be less amazing to gain the upper-hand, especially since Ganon has to keep the reads going to keep the tech-chasing going.

Yeah that is true, so the Ganon would have to be better than you to make things even.

 

[ShadowGanon]

Or just obscenely good at reading people. Lol. Like my insta-read aerial flame-choke at the beginning of the match we had a while back on Battlefield, huh, Dark. You use your teleport too much.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Or just obscenely good at reading people. Lol. Like my insta-read aerial flame-choke at the beginning of the match we had a while back on Battlefield, huh, Dark. You use your teleport too much.

Pfffffffffttttt that's what you say!

 

[Frost | Odds]

Pretty sure that the ganon/bowser mu favors ganon *really* hard. Ganon's side-b punishes the hell out of pretty much everything bowser does, and takes away boozer's ability to shield or CC (ie, his only mixups) basically at all. The edgeguard game is also really lopsided.

 

[deadjames]

The edgeguard game is also really lopsided.

If by lopsided you mean once Ganon's offstage he loses a stock then, yes.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

If by lopsided you mean once Ganon's offstage he loses a stock then, yes.

Exactly.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Or just obscenely good at reading people. Lol. Like my insta-read aerial flame-choke at the beginning of the match we had a while back on Battlefield, huh, Dark. You use your teleport too much.

That may be true, but I can still beat you. Lol

 

[ShadowGanon]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Off stage (not on-ledge) is terrible for Bowser since he really only has one option and that is to use his second jump and his u-special. Whereas Ganondorf has his second jump > warlock kick > second jump > u-special, his second jump flame choke, and his second jump u-special. So comparing recoveries, pretty sure Ganon wins. On ledge is a different story, though, that I'll let someone else talk about if they want. As far as gimping each other goes, I want to say that Ganon has the upper hand considering that I'm pretty sure that Ganondorf can thunder-stomp Bowsers only recovery move. < And that is a pretty effective gimp. lol. Though, I'm not sure of this, but Bowser may be able to crouch cancel the little upper-cut at the end of Ganon's u-special and whack him away from the ledge with his down tilt....

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Off stage (not on-ledge) is terrible for Bowser since he really only has one option and that is to use his second jump and his u-special. Whereas Ganondorf has his second jump > warlock kick > second jump > u-special, his second jump flame choke, and his second jump u-special. So comparing recoveries, pretty sure Ganon wins. On ledge is a different story, though, that I'll let someone else talk about if they want. As far as gimping each other goes, I want to say that Ganon has the upper hand considering that I'm pretty sure that Ganondorf can thunder-stomp Bowsers only recovery move. < And that is a pretty effective gimp. lol. Though, I'm not sure of this, but Bowser may be able to crouch cancel the little upper-cut at the end of Ganon's u-special and whack him away from the ledge with his down tilt....

#boomroasted

Preach it---brother! (Pit's Groceries reference)

For edge-guard sake, G-dorf only has to d-tilt and Fair to end Bowser's game.

 

[GeZ]

Bowser just has to Fortress Hog or Bair. He may not have the advantage recovering, but he's easily better at edgeguarding in this matchup.

 

[deadjames]

#boomroasted

Preach it---brother! (Pit's Groceries reference)

For edge-guard sake, G-dorf only has to d-tilt and Fair to end Bowser's game.

Both are easily avoided if you sweet-spot the ledge.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Off stage (not on-ledge) is terrible for Bowser since he really only has one option and that is to use his second jump and his u-special. Whereas Ganondorf has his second jump > warlock kick > second jump > u-special, his second jump flame choke, and his second jump u-special. So comparing recoveries, pretty sure Ganon wins. On ledge is a different story, though, that I'll let someone else talk about if they want. As far as gimping each other goes, I want to say that Ganon has the upper hand considering that I'm pretty sure that Ganondorf can thunder-stomp Bowsers only recovery move. < And that is a pretty effective gimp. lol. Though, I'm not sure of this, but Bowser may be able to crouch cancel the little upper-cut at the end of Ganon's u-special and whack him away from the ledge with his down tilt....

Bowser can also use his double-jump then use the upward momentum from it to a do a rising Bowser Bomb to sweet-spot the ledge, so if Ganon gets too greedy he'll eat a Bowser Bomb, either way it's a pretty safe recovery mixup because Bowser Bomb has heavy armor, also aerial Whirling Fortress will usually beat all of Ganon's options as long as the hitboxes are still active unless Ganon dairs above said hitboxes, which is easier said than done depending on the situation.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Both are easily avoided if you sweet-spot the ledge.

Bowser can also use his double-jump then use the upward momentum from it to a do a rising Bowser Bomb to sweet-spot the ledge, so if Ganon gets too greedy he'll eat a Bowser Bomb, either way it's a pretty safe recovery mixup because Bowser Bomb has heavy armor, also aerial Whirling Fortress will usually beat all of Ganon's options as long as the hitboxes are still active unless Ganon dairs above said hitboxes, which is easier said than done depending on the situation.

But than again, G-dorf's brand of knockback entails horizontal kills. Not the kind that Bowser can down-b from.