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[Mega Bidoof]

Bit of a rant here, but I do wanna get this off my chest, and I’d assume some others here feel the same.

I’m honestly beginning to grow tired of the speculation for the DLC. The focal points of discussion aren’t “who’s relevant” or “who would be interesting to play as” like they used to be. It’s just these “leaks” from people who want five seconds of fame.

Somehow everyone is “a reliable source.” Someone gets one thing right, suddenly we all watch everything they say and take it seriously. It’s not even like a monthly thing anymore. It seems every week, or even every day, we get a new leak from this guy’s Discord server or that girl’s discord server, and then this character is confirmed and this one is deconfirmed. Oh wait, actually it’s this character but someone from another discord server said so.
They all end up contradicting each other in the end anyway, because they’re all BS.

Then you got people like (and no offense intended to the man himself) PapaGenos making videos for every one of these daily leaks, ultimately making content that gets outdated in a day or two, and I really can’t bring myself to pay any mind to something like that.

The daily discourse being in this state is the reason I barely post, and just lurk every day. Why should I even bother commenting on Reimu, for example, when I’m less than two full days it’ll be a dead rumor. Oh wait it’s not dead. Oh wait it is. Oh wait it’s not, because a guy on my friend’s discord server who knows a guy who has connections to video games said it’s true.

Everyone’s going to go into the Terry presentation expecting Ryu, Crash, or Reimu. Watch it be none of them, just like how last year’s September direct wasn’t Skull Kid, or Isaac, or Karate Joe, despite whoever said so.

 

[Cosmic77]

Regardless of what franchise we talk about, we're always gonna have people who say, "Actually, a lot of people recognize it."

Touhou isn't the most obscure franchise we've talked about, but I'll argue most of the characters discussed in this thread on a regular basis are more widely known than Reimu. Compared to what we normally discuss, of course Reimu would seem weird.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

In what world is Touhou obscure?

I could honestly ask everyone in my main circle of college buddies if they’ve ever heard of Touhou, and they’ll probably all say no. Even the nerdier ones of the group.

Albeit, only a few of them would probably know of Persona, and Joker got in, but that’s not the point.

Regardless of what you think of Reimu in Smash, Touhou is 100% obscure in the West.

 

[Ivander]

Sounds like “Granny” to me.

It's "Gravy Spice" because before that specific note, for some of the other notes they did, Ryan made a joke about Kathy smelling like gravy and it turned into a recurring joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ1uXYIOYbg

 

[Double K]

I could honestly ask everyone in my main circle of college buddies if they’ve ever heard of Touhou, and they’ll probably all say no. Even the nerdier ones of the group.

Albeit, only a few of them would probably know of Persona, and Joker got in, but that’s not the point.

Regardless of what you think of Reimu in Smash, Touhou is 100% obscure in the West.

Ah yes, the West, where characters like Terry Bogard and Erdrick are called obscure, but Geno and Isaac? Those guys are super iconic.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Bit of a rant here, but I do wanna get this off my chest, and I’d assume some others here feel the same.

I’m honestly beginning to grow tired of the speculation for the DLC. The focal points of discussion aren’t “who’s relevant” or “who would be interesting to play as” like they used to be. It’s just these “leaks” from people who want five seconds of fame.

Somehow everyone is “a reliable source.” Someone gets one thing right, suddenly we all watch everything they say and take it seriously. It’s not even like a monthly thing anymore. It seems every week, or even every day, we get a new leak from this guy’s Discord server or that girl’s discord server, and then this character is confirmed and this one is deconfirmed. Oh wait, actually it’s this character but someone from another discord server said so.
They all end up contradicting each other in the end anyway, because they’re all BS.

Then you got people like (and no offense intended to the man himself) PapaGenos making videos for every one of these daily leaks, ultimately making content that gets outdated in a day or two, and I really can’t bring myself to pay any mind to something like that.

The daily discourse being in this state is the reason I barely post, and just lurk every day. Why should I even bother commenting on Reimu, for example, when I’m less than two full days it’ll be a dead rumor. Oh wait it’s not dead. Oh wait it is. Oh wait it’s not, because a guy on my friend’s discord server who knows a guy who has connections to video games said it’s true.

Everyone’s going to go into the Terry presentation expecting Ryu, Crash, or Reimu. Watch it be none of them, just like how last year’s September direct wasn’t Skull Kid, or Isaac, or Karate Joe, despite whoever said so.

Me too. I really hope he just.... reveals who they are. Terry’s trailer is proof that we don’t need to see gameplay to get a good reveal. And plenty of other fighters are starting to reveal all their characters up front. Even if they’re not finished yet.

 

[Shroob]

Regardless of what franchise we talk about, we're always gonna have people who say, "Actually, a lot of people recognize it."

Touhou isn't the most obscure franchise we've talked about, but I'll argue most of the characters discussed in this thread on a regular basis are more widely known than Reimu. Compared to what we normally discuss, of course Reimu would seem weird.

Widely known in the Smash bubble*

Ask anyone if they know what a Geno, an Isaac or a *insert character here* is and you're likely not gonna have them understanding.

Ask someone what a Touhou or Toohoo is and they've at least probably heard of it.


You're right, to the kiddos at home who don't use the internet, a Reimu would be a 'what' choice, but so would a Geno or Terry Gogurt.

We, as a community, put characters on pedestals and overblown their popularity or relevance just as much as it goes the other way.

 

[Lighteni]

I mean, it's an indie game. No matter how popular it is, it is gonna be niche because of that. But despite that, Touhou kind of is like

a juggernaut in terms of how many people actually willingly engage with it (in Japan)

There was this viral tweet a few years ago, about FGO, where a person was telling a story about how he went to visit his middle-schooler cousin and asked if they wanted to play Pokemon.

"Ehh, isn't that a game for little kids and old people? Nobody at school plays that these days."

"What do the kids play?"

"Fate/Grand Order."

"FGO..."

"All the boys realy like Mecha-Eli"

"Mecha-eli..."

You also got words from Japanese comic stores-- not big book stores, where they say that Touhou fanworks tend to sell out faster than anything they else they carry, and that the primary customers are young girls, aged 8~16. Touhou isn't this weird niche thing that people don't engage in, it's a cultural super-giant that has inspired countless people to pick up a tablet and draw, or learn how to program, or compose music.

It's the Indie-equivalent of dragon quest

It’s worth noting that Touhou is always the biggest franchise at places such as Comiket, which has an average attendance of over 700,000 people. Despite that though, I do feel like its popularity and fandom is in many ways restricted to those same dojin circles and the Internet, if only because the main Touhou games which the series stems from are only playable on PC. Compare it to the behemoth that is FGO, which only requires you to have a phone and check the App Store, see it’s popularm and give it a try, which only attracts more people. It’s most definitely a juggernaut in indie gaming, the most successful indie series of all time most definitely, but I question it having more popularity than something like even Undertale. As you said though, it’s an indie game, it’s popularity is inherently gonna be limited.

 

[Lamperouge]

Forgive me for this, but why is that the case?

The last thing we need is for a potential follower of Sabi to end up brutally wrong and further prop up her claims if she happens to guess something correctly.

 

[TheMightyP]

I mean, tbh, this thread often has issues with taking leakers as the word of God as well.

I mean, how many times has this thread used PapaGenos? I know he isn't a leaker, just a reporter, but a lot of people here just throw him in the mix for leaks that end up being fake in like 3 hours. All because of VR Plant, who conveniently went missing.

 

[CannonStreak]

Me too. I really hope he just.... reveals who they are. Terry’s trailer is proof that we don’t need to see gameplay to get a good reveal. And plenty of other fighters are starting to reveal all their characters up front. Even if they’re not finished yet.

I see what you mean.

I for one, am not into insiders, as they know something before the rest of society does. Where exactly do some of them get their information? Either way, I don't personally think they should spoil what's coming up. I mean, some of us want to be surprised, right? Sorry if this is an unpopular opinion?

 

[Shroob]

I mean, tbh, this thread often has issues with taking leakers as the word of God as well.

I mean, how many times has this thread used PapaGenos? I know he isn't a leaker, just a reporter, but a lot of people here just throw him in the mix for leaks that end up being fake in like 3 hours. All because of VR Plant, who conveniently went missing.

I guess VRPlant wilted for autumn.

 

[Double K]

It’s worth noting that Touhou is always the biggest franchise at places such as Comiket, which has an average attendance of over 700,000 people. Despite that though, I do feel like its popularity and fandom is in many ways restricted to those same dojin circles and the Internet, if only because the main Touhou games which the series stems from are only playable on PC. Compare it to the behemoth that is FGO, which only requires you to have a phone and check the App Store, see it’s popularm and give it a try, which only attracts more people. It’s most definitely a juggernaut in indie gaming, the most successful indie series of all time most definitely, but I question it having more popularity than something like even Undertale.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but Touhou hasn't been #1 in Comiket since like, 2013. KanColle dethroned it, then Love Live and IM@S dethroned KanColle, then FGO came into existence and has been ruling since 2017. It's consistently been in the top 10, rotating between 3~7 though, and still has two big conventions dedicated to it.

 

[Cosmic77]

Bit of a rant here, but I do wanna get this off my chest, and I’d assume some others here feel the same.

I’m honestly beginning to grow tired of the speculation for the DLC. The focal points of discussion aren’t “who’s relevant” or “who would be interesting to play as” like they used to be. It’s just these “leaks” from people who want five seconds of fame.

Somehow everyone is “a reliable source.” Someone gets one thing right, suddenly we all watch everything they say and take it seriously. It’s not even like a monthly thing anymore. It seems every week, or even every day, we get a new leak from this guy’s Discord server or that girl’s discord server, and then this character is confirmed and this one is deconfirmed. Oh wait, actually it’s this character but someone from another discord server said so.
They all end up contradicting each other in the end anyway, because they’re all BS.

Then you got people like (and no offense intended to the man himself) PapaGenos making videos for every one of these daily leaks, ultimately making content that gets outdated in a day or two, and I really can’t bring myself to pay any mind to something like that.

The daily discourse being in this state is the reason I barely post, and just lurk every day. Why should I even bother commenting on Reimu, for example, when I’m less than two full days it’ll be a dead rumor. Oh wait it’s not dead. Oh wait it is. Oh wait it’s not, because a guy on my friend’s discord server who knows a guy who has connections to video games said it’s true.

Everyone’s going to go into the Terry presentation expecting Ryu, Crash, or Reimu. Watch it be none of them, just like how last year’s September direct wasn’t Skull Kid, or Isaac, or Karate Joe, despite whoever said so.

This pretty much echoes how I feel.

Speculation is most fun for me when we're doing the basic, "How likely is this character?/Who do you want?". Recently though, we haven't been doing that. Half the time, this thread isn't even discussing Smash, and whenever it finally does, it's just a bunch of "He said...but she said...do we know if we can trust them?"

I can cut this thread a little slack since news had been slow lately, but practically every "leak" brought up just doesn't feel like it's worth the hours this thread spends on them.

 

[CannonStreak]

The last thing we need is for a potential follower of Sabi to end up brutally wrong and further prop up her claims if she happens to guess something correctly.

Okay, sorry but I am still unsure. Maybe it is because I don't know either well, but why would that be a bad thing?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ah yes, the West, where characters like Terry Bogard and Erdrick are called obscure, but Geno and Isaac? Those guys are super iconic.

To be fair, the west isn’t the same thing as the internet. What you’re speaking to is the Smash bubble.

Touhou may seem anything but obscure on the internet, but that’s also the case because you’re around a bunch of people who like and share Touhou related material. Mega Bidoof is right: It’s not some well known series.

It’s not like a nobody, per say. But it’s not a huge deal in the mainstream.

 

[Z25]

I mean, tbh, this thread often has issues with taking leakers as the word of God as well.

I mean, how many times has this thread used PapaGenos? I know he isn't a leaker, just a reporter, but a lot of people here just throw him in the mix for leaks that end up being fake in like 3 hours. All because of VR Plant, who conveniently went missing.

Plant may be taken hostage but Nintendo at this point if I had to guess. He was very accurate and probably a priority to shut down

 

[SnakeFighter64]

I see what you mean.

I for one, am not into insiders, as they know something before the rest of society does. Where exactly do some of them get their information? Either way, I don't personally think they should spoil what's coming up. I mean, some of us want to be surprised, right? Sorry if this is an unpopular opinion?

Leakers are... meh. I don’t mind them but I know others do.

What I want is for Sakurai to do a trailer that’s just animation and reveals, like, 5 characters at once, like NRS’s latest trailers. Just as hype, but takes out a lot of the leaking and speculation.

 

[Lighteni]

Sorry to burst the bubble, but Touhou hasn't been #1 in Comiket since like, 2013. KanColle dethroned it, then Love Live and IM@S dethroned KanColle, then FGO came into existence and has been ruling since 2017. It's consistently been in the top 10, rotating between 3~7 though, and still has two big conventions dedicated to it.

Ah, guess I’ve been out of it for too long. Still, it’s always one of the most notable franchises in that regard, the fact that it can even compete with things like Fate and Love Live despite having a quite a bit older fanbase is a sign of that I suppose.

 

[Lamperouge]

I wish Nintendo would end our suffering and have another "happy little accident" for fighter #5 on their website.

 

[Shroob]

To be fair, the west isn’t the same thing as the internet. What you’re speaking to is the Smash bubble.

Touhou may seem anything but obscure on the internet, but that’s also the case because you’re around a bunch of people who like and share Touhou related material. Mega Bidoof is right: It’s not some well known series.

It’s not like a nobody, per say. But it’s not a huge deal in the mainstream.

Let's call a spade a spade, neither are a good chunk of the franchises in Smash.

 

[CannonStreak]

Leakers are... meh. I don’t mind them but I know others do.

What I want is for Sakurai to do a trailer that’s just animation and reveals, like, 5 characters at once, like NRS’s latest trailers. Just as hype, but takes out a lot of the leaking and speculation.

I see. I kinda mind them myself. I think they are unnecessary. I don't think all are bad, but they can potentially ruin surprises.

I wish Nintendo would end our suffering and have another "happy little accident" for fighter #5 on their website.

Or they could give hints as to who's next.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Ima say it one more time, as a dude who sometimes hears some things relating to insider stuff and has brought you info in the past, such as Kencineroar, Hero, and others.

Give leak talk a hard reset. Take everything with a grain of salt. I would consider none of the three leaks as truth right now until anything else comes out. Our palate should be cleansed of Hayabusa, Crash, and Reimu.

For now, if those three and Tracer are off the table, maybe discuss what 3rd parties are left that would make sense. I personally don’t think pick 5 is first party, so that’s what I’m going with.

 

[Z25]

Also I’ve been saying it, but Sabi has literally gotten nothing Nintendo related right, just her cryptic picture source who communicates openly.

her Nintendo posts should but talked with a grain of salt if that, since she’s a well established liar between lying about talking to verge and the clearly bull **** c and d that she made up since she won’t shut her mouth anyway.

she honestly is the biggest problem with smash leaks right now.

verge doesn’t stay active and seek attention, and papa genos would just post stuff occasionally.

Sabi goes out of her way to make it about her and seek attention from everyone.

so I wouldn’t trust her. If she wasn’t around most of our content would be purely fun and interesting speculation after seeing how nuts the pass has been.

And of course the 4chan leaks here and there but those are always fun

 

[Lamperouge]

I see. I kinda mind them myself. I think they are unnecessary. I don't think all are bad, but they can potentially ruin surprises.



Or they could give hints as to who's next.

A new company being listed in the copyrights section would be a nice hint.

 

[Double K]

To be fair, the west isn’t the same thing as the internet. What you’re speaking to is the Smash bubble.

Touhou may seem anything but obscure on the internet, but that’s also the case because you’re around a bunch of people who like and share Touhou related material. Mega Bidoof is right: It’s not some well known series.

It’s not like a nobody, per say. But it’s not a huge deal in the mainstream.

Look, how many of the IPs in Smash would be completely forgotten, or dead, if not for Smash or Nintendo's very heavy intervention? And lets count their reps

Mother (2)
Fire Emblem, mostly likely (6)
F-Zero (1)
Bayonetta (1)
Star Fox (3)
Probably Kid Icarus (3)
G&W
ROB
Maybe Punch-Out (1)
To the Japanese, Metroid (3)

 

[BlueMonk]

talking here is boring as hell without leaks, I don't wanna just compare the imaginary worth of video game characters all day that sucks

 

[Shroob]

talking here is boring as hell without leaks, I don't wanna just compare the imaginary worth of video game characters all day that sucks

Welcome to Smashboards

You must be new here

 

[CannonStreak]

Also I’ve been saying it, but Sabi has literally gotten nothing Nintendo related right, just her cryptic picture source who communicates openly.

her Nintendo posts should but talked with a grain of salt if that, since she’s a well established liar between lying about talking to verge and the clearly bull **** c and d that she made up since she won’t shut her mouth anyway.

she honestly is the biggest problem with smash leaks right now.

verge doesn’t stay active and seek attention, and papa genos would just post stuff occasionally.

Sabi goes out of her way to make it about her and seek attention from everyone.

so I wouldn’t trust her. If she wasn’t around most of our content would be purely fun and interesting speculation after seeing how nuts the pass has been.

And of course the 4chan leaks here and there but those are always fun

I knew there was something off about her. I just didn't have the words. Thanks. I would rather still believe in either Crash or Ryu H. being DLC pass number 5 instead of listen to her, with that kind of reputation, anyways.

 

[Z25]

If those characters are out of the running though, most likely left I think goes:

phoenix, Leon, llyold, jonsey, and not sure after that. Pretty much anyone could show up at this point

 

[CannonStreak]

A new company being listed in the copyrights section would be a nice hint.

Heh heh! That wasn't what I meant, but I can't argue with that!

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Ima say it one more time, as a dude who sometimes hears some things relating to insider stuff and has brought you info in the past, such as Kencineroar, Hero, and others.

Hive leak talk a hard reset. Take everything with a grain of salt. I would consider none of the three leaks as truth right now until anything else comes out. Our palate should be cleansed of Hayabusa, Crash, and Reimu.

For now, if those three and Tracer are off the table, maybe discuss what 3rd parties are left that would make sense. I personally don’t think pick 5 is first party, so that’s what I’m going with.

Kazuya/Heihachi/Jin
Augumon
Chosen Undead/Knight Artorias
Lloyd Irving
DoomSlayer
Leon S. Kennedy/Jill Valentine
Scorpion
Kratos
Maxwell
Glover
Dante
Phoenix Wright
Professor Layton

 

[Cosmic77]

Look, how many of the IPs in Smash would be completely forgotten, or dead, if not for Smash or Nintendo's very heavy intervention? And lets count their reps

Mother (2)
Fire Emblem, mostly likely (6)
F-Zero (1)
Bayonetta (1)
Star Fox (3)
Probably Kid Icarus (3)
G&W
ROB
Maybe Punch-Out (1)
To the Japanese, Metroid (3)

Why the heck is Star Fox included in this list? I know Smash helped it, but it did fine on it's own for a while.

And even when it's inactive, Nintendo still totes it around as an IP they're really proud of. It gets referenced all the time.

 

[Shroob]

Kazuya/Heihachi/Jin
Augumon
Chosen Undead/Knight Artorias
DoomSlayer
Leon S. Kennedy/Jill Valentine
Scorpion
Kratos
Maxwell
Glover
Dante
Phoenix Wright
Professor Layton

One of these things is not like the other

 

[TheCJBrine]

Maxwell is coming.

The last thing we need is for a potential follower of Sabi to end up brutally wrong and further prop up her claims if she happens to guess something correctly.

Everything Fatman shares comes from Sabi or other insiders in her discord/private discord; if he's wrong, they're wrong.

 

[SneakyLink]

Needs to print something
Printer won’t respond
Turns out it needs Internet to print

 

[SnakeFighter64]

One of these things is not like the other

Just throwing it out there because Sakurai does weirdness sometimes.

DoomSlayer or Artorias would be pretty big Game Awards tier reveals. And my money is gonna be all on them if we don’t find out in Terry’s direct.

 

[Shroob]

Why the heck is Star Fox included in this list? I know Smash helped it, but it did fine on it's own for a while.

And even when it's inactive, Nintendo still totes it around as an IP they're really proud of. It gets referenced all the time.

Star Fox has always struggled after 64, which is a damn shame since I loved Assault.

A real bad reboot on a really bad selling system didn't help.

 

[CannonStreak]

Maxwell is coming.

Everything Fatman shares comes from Sabi or other insiders in her discord/private discord; if he's wrong, they're wrong.

With the kind of person Sabi is said to be, I can see them being wrong on plenty of things. Just saying.

 

[BlueMonk]

Just throwing it out there because Sakurai does weirdness sometimes.

DoomSlayer or Artorias would be pretty big Game Awards tier reveals. And my money is gonna be all on them if we don’t find out in Terry’s direct.

I used to think Artorias would be cool but now I have played a bit of Dark Souls and can confidently say that he would make zero sense