WaffleDinosaur
´ ͜`
You know, besides this godlike taunt
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I think his melee misfire would do just nicely....Slightly buff the speed of the misfire.
If they are going to give my opponent visual cues as to when I have one(ridding the element of surprise), then I am gonna need them to not be able to outrun me.
I believe this doesn't work for the same reason crawldashing only works in one direction. Fixing it seems like it would be a quite large undertaking.
- Make wavescuttle work both ways.
I disagree with this. It's simply not possible to consistently gain the maximum height on Luigi's cyclone without setting other buttons to special and I see no reason to include something so strenuous on hands and controllers in the game as the ridiculous mashing required to gain the maximum height without the dpad. I think they should just slightly decrease the maximum height that cyclone can gain and, if they do get rid of the dpad mashing, make it easier to gain that height.
- Remove the dpad thing from Cyclone.
The move really doesn't need a damage buff, especially given that the second hit no longer stales from hitting with the first hit, so I don't think it needs to be changed (not that I would mind or oppose it).
- For that matter, the first hit of aerial Cyclone is supposed to do 9 damage, not 8.
I haven't heard about this before. On what part of his body and on what part of the move is he invincible?
- Invincibility on Missile is totally unnecessary.
I don't understand why you would ever want this, but I think doing it by holding the taunt button would make more sense.
- I really like the Brawl animation of Luigi getting his head stuck in the wall. Luigi should be able to activate it in PM by pressing towards a wall while Missiling into it. This would allow a lot of creativity, and give Luigi a bit of mixup to compensate for being unable to store guaranteed Misfires.
I think that more characters should get crawl attacks, but they should be careful when giving new moves to characters that are midtier or higher in Melee so that people can still transition between games relatively easily. I support this as long as the move is not too centralizing (and I think a move that helps him get around projectiles easily would be too centralizing). I would like his crawl attack to be a butt scoot. I just feel like it would fit him so well.
- A crawl attack. Specifically, I’m thinking a short (in movement-distance and body-size) roll which could be used to Epic Geordi Maneuver under attacks, with a few frames of intangibility near the start. This would allow (with proper timing) Luigi a way through projectiles and disjoints that currently give him problems, and would add to his theme of having weird, crazy ground movement.
On the topic of the D-pad mashing, I have absolutely no issues mashing the B-button and it isn't strenuous at all.I agree with most of what you've suggested, @ Cubelarooso , but have a few comments/suggestions/counterproposals.
I believe this doesn't work for the same reason crawldashing only works in one direction. Fixing it seems like it would be a quite large undertaking.
I disagree with this. It's simply not possible to consistently gain the maximum height on Luigi's cyclone without setting other buttons to special and I see no reason to include something so strenuous on hands and controllers in the game as the ridiculous mashing required to gain the maximum height without the dpad. I think they should just slightly decrease the maximum height that cyclone can gain and, if they do get rid of the dpad mashing, make it easier to gain that height.
The move really doesn't need a damage buff, especially given that the second hit no longer stales from hitting with the first hit, so I don't think it needs to be changed (not that I would mind or oppose it).
I haven't heard about this before. On what part of his body and on what part of the move is he invincible?
I don't understand why you would ever want this, but I think doing it by holding the taunt button would make more sense.
I think that more characters should get crawl attacks, but they should be careful when giving new moves to characters that are midtier or higher in Melee so that people can still transition between games relatively easily. I support this as long as the move is not too centralizing (and I think a move that helps him get around projectiles easily would be too centralizing). I would like his crawl attack to be a butt scoot. I just feel like it would fit him so well.
I don't see why using the dpad is fraudulent. I see it as using a tool that was provided to me by the game and it is too good of a recovery option to not use. Just my opinion though.On the topic of the D-pad mashing, I have absolutely no issues mashing the B-button and it isn't strenuous at all.
I am extremely consistent at it, with of course very rare instances of failure. Common in humans.
It is a personal thing for me, but I don't approve of the D-pad method as I feel it is fraudulent, but again, it is what it is.
I say it is fraudulent only because the people who use it, likely can't legitimately mash the B-button fast enough to make use of the recovery. I am speaking from a standpoint in which is from a Melee player that doesn't have the D-pad as an option, but can still perform the Cyclone recovery.I don't see why using the dpad is fraudulent. I see it as using a tool that was provided to me by the game and it is too good of a recovery option to not use. Just my opinion though.
What ? It is and has been the shoryuken since before you were born, son.Plus, there's currently no great name for the sweetspot, which could be remedied by 1-Up-B.
So you're saying that just because someone is unable to properly mash, they should have a recovery option taken away from them? This will only deter new players from picking up Luigi. His cyclone is what makes Luigi's recovery what it is. If you take that away, you are only hurting new players that are physically unable to mash. It won't affect me much, but I think a lot of new players will stop playing him or even never pick him up in the first place. Bad recovery can really turn players off. There aren't many Luigi's as is, so why make it harder for people wanting to start playing him. It's not like Luigi is OP or anything. You don't really see many Luigi mains winning big tournaments.I say it is fraudulent only because the people who use it, likely can't legitimately mash the B-button fast enough to make use of the recovery. I am speaking from a standpoint in which is from a Melee player that doesn't have the D-pad as an option, but can still perform the Cyclone recovery.
Once again, I personally don't approve, but what I do or don't approve of doesn't affect anyone else.
I don't think you actually read what I typed.So you're saying that just because someone is unable to properly mash, they should have a recovery option taken away from them? This will only deter new players from picking up Luigi. His cyclone is what makes Luigi's recovery what it is. If you take that away, you are only hurting new players that are physically unable to mash. It won't affect me much, but I think a lot of new players will stop playing him or even never pick him up in the first place. Bad recovery can really turn players off. There aren't many Luigi's as is, so why make it harder for people wanting to start playing him. It's not like Luigi is OP or anything. You don't really see many Luigi mains winning big tournaments.
I got the idea that you wanted it taken out completely because you're talking about how you disapprove of it in the 3.6 changes thread. Also, did you even read what I said? I never said anything about it not being in melee. I'm saying that new players that can't mash shouldn't be punished. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should solely depend on d-padding. I know that d-padding won't help them learn mashing, but until they do learn to mash, let them still have the recovery option. I understand that you may not personally approve, but look at it from a new player's perspective. Please don't interpret my comments wrong. I'm not mad. I just like a good debate.I don't think you actually read what I typed.
Nowhere did I say, because it isn't in Melee, it shouldn't be in PM. I am only pointing out that it is likely people who use that method can't actually mash the B-button.
And as I said, what I do or don't approve of PERSONALLY, doesn't affect OTHER players. Meaning they can do whatever they please. I am not sure where you got the idea I want PMDT to take it out entirely.
LolI got the idea that you wanted it taken out completely because you're talking about how you disapprove of it in the 3.6 changes thread. Also, did you even read what I said? I never said anything about it not being in melee. I'm saying that new players that can't mash shouldn't be punished. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone should solely depend on d-padding. I know that d-padding won't help them learn mashing, but until they do learn to mash, let them still have the recovery option. I understand that you may not personally approve, but look at it from a new player's perspective. Please don't interpret my comments wrong. I'm not mad. I just like a good debate.
Only two other moves have been adjusted for the different staling, and I wouldn't put them in the same category as Cyclone, especially since one of Cyclone's main functions is clanking things. It's not a buff, it's the way the move is supposed to already be. The aerial version of the move, at least. And since the the aerial version can be grounded, I see no reason why the regular ground version shouldn't have it.The move really doesn't need a damage buff, especially given that the second hit no longer stales from hitting with the first hit, so I don't think it needs to be changed (not that I would mind or oppose it).
His whole body, for the first 5 frames after releasing, which also overlaps with its hitbox.I haven't heard about this before. On what part of his body and on what part of the move is he invincible?
First because it's funny, but it would also be a simple tool inspiring creativity, without significantly affecting balance.I don't understand why you would ever want this, but I think doing it by holding the taunt button would make more sense.
Obviously, any change should avoid being centralizing, but it should still add something to the game. The idea isn't for it to be an easy way to get around disjoints, but a skillful way. Something that takes timing, spacing, and knowing when it won't be super-punishable.I think that more characters should get crawl attacks, but they should be careful when giving new moves to characters that are midtier or higher in Melee so that people can still transition between games relatively easily. I support this as long as the move is not too centralizing (and I think a move that helps him get around projectiles easily would be too centralizing). I would like his crawl attack to be a butt scoot. I just feel like it would fit him so well.
I actually think this could be a really good change. Seems like it'd raise Luigi's skill ceiling more than it would really buff him, and the precedent makes it sound quite reasonable.As a Brawl Luigi, the one thing I'd want is for the sweetspot upB to end on frame 5 so that if you B-reverse it, it still sweetspots, like in Brawl.
Ergonomics and stuff. People who come from Brawl don't do backwards upBs, they do regular upBs which they B-reverse.
I don't think "shoryuken" is a great name; not like "tipper," "nipple spike," or "tipman." It's not that catchy, fairly trite, difficult to spell/pronounce, and, strictly speaking, doesn't necessarily imply the sweetspot.What ? It is and has been the shoryuken since before you were born, son.