So, uh... Impa?

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Sure, but these characters we're separating are completely different in terms of play style and movesets. Ryu and Evil Ryu/Link and Young Link may have different properties, but they're clone characters.

Zelda/Sheik are different entirely, and so are Zamus and Samus.

Zelda/Sheik just make more sense together IMO. It's an awesome representation of one of the biggest plot twists in gaming, no to mention the "you unlocked the door" chime from Zelda games, and makes reference to the gargatuan popularity of OoT. Zelda being able to access her other quicker, agile self to adapt just makes more sense IMO than giving her a Phantom to throw out.

Regardless, what's done is done. Unless (and I doubt it) the customer moveset feature will allow Zelda players to switch out the Phantom for Sheik. But with how much he stressed characters will no longer transform, I doubt it.

Honestly, the Sheik transformation thing did bug me a bit. And while I can understand that this was done for the sake of reworking the characters and balance, there are alternative options than to remove the mechanic all together. One could simply map the transformation to the taunt button while still giving the characters new moves.

And I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment about the Zelda/Sheik transformation, it was a shoutout to the hardcore Ocarina of time references. The thing that makes Zelda as a character so great in general is she firmly represents so much of the games, and I'm guessing that the phantom attack is supposed to represent something from the other franchises.

While I'm glad that the characters are changing for the better, I will miss using the transformations.

 

[Katy Parry]

Honestly, the Sheik transformation thing did bug me a bit. And while I can understand that this was done for the sake of reworking the characters and balance, there are alternative options than to remove the mechanic all together. One could simply map the transformation to the taunt button while still giving the characters new moves.

And I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment about the Zelda/Sheik transformation, it was a shoutout to the hardcore Ocarina of time references. The thing that makes Zelda as a character so great in general is she firmly represents so much of the games, and I'm guessing that the phantom attack is supposed to represent something from the other franchises.

While I'm glad that the characters are changing for the better, I will miss using the transformations.

I feel exactly the same. The Phantom is representing Spirit Tracks (although it looks odd with her being TP Zelda, and we have Toon Link for that style of representation)

 

[Oatmeal.]

Shouldn't this be in the Impa for SSB4 thread?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Shouldn't this be in the Impa for SSB4 thread?

This whole section should've been the Impa boards...

 

[Morbi]

I feel as though an Impa inspired costume for Sheik is all but confirmed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am not too sure. Sure, I would appriciate it if Impa didn't turn out to be playable herself, but there are some drastic differences in the designs of Sheik and Impa. If anything, OOT Impa would fit best. And am not too sure how I'd like that, seeing as SS Impa is the one who should've been playable.

 

[Oatmeal.]

Am not too sure. Sure, I would appriciate it if Impa didn't turn out to be playable herself, but there are some drastic differences in the designs of Sheik and Impa. If anything, OOT Impa would fit best. And am not too sure how I'd like that, seeing as SS Impa is the one who should've been playable.

Ugh....OoT Impa looked so weird.....reminded me of Madonna. If Sheik gets an alt., it should be SS Impa.

 

[Morbi]

Am not too sure. Sure, I would appriciate it if Impa didn't turn out to be playable herself, but there are some drastic differences in the designs of Sheik and Impa. If anything, OOT Impa would fit best. And am not too sure how I'd like that, seeing as SS Impa is the one who should've been playable.

No; not an Impa costume, an Impa inspired costume. They would just take elements of her design or the pallet and incorporate it into Sheik. I have a feeling that costumes wont introduce "other characters," as in characters with a different name. For instance, Peach would probably get her own design for an alternate, and Daisy would be a pallet swap. They wouldn't make Daisy the alternate in my opinion.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

No; not an Impa costume, an Impa inspired costume. They would just take elements of her design or the pallet and incorporate it into Sheik. I have a feeling that costumes wont introduce "other characters," as in characters with a different name. For instance, Peach would probably get her own design for an alternate, and Daisy would be a pallet swap. They wouldn't make Daisy the alternate in my opinion.

Kind of like Cloud's KH1 outfit which was designed based on elements from Vincent.

 

[leprechaunlink727]

Impa is, I believe, the most frequently reoccuring character in the series after Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf/Ganon. But like people have been saying, she's always either an old hunchbacked lady or virtually exactly the same as Sheik. I think she's well suited to being an alternate costume for Sheik, if those end up being a thing. It could be her OoT incarnation, her Skyward Sword incarnation, or both. I don't think we'll ever see her as a playable character, simply because in spite of her relative prominence in the series, she's not as iconic as the Triforce 3 or Tingle.

(Seriously though, if we get a new Zelda rep, it'll be Tingle.)

 

[Sonicguy726]

Impa still has a chance, she's playable in hyrule warriors and uses a long sword setting her apart from sheik!!!
http://mynintendonews.com/2014/05/2...ng-impa-as-playable-character/#comment-971398

 

[JCDied4U]

Why can't she just be an alt costume that's also called Sheik? I hope all the Zelda characters get Skyward Sword alts.

 

[smashingDoug]

deleted post

 

[pupNapoleon]

Actually, I think this helps Impas chances a lot

Hear me out.

When we get the full roster, I am hoping we are going to see some changes. Including a cut of Ness and Falco.
From this, we will see Wolf and Lucas still on the board.

We saw them transition into place in Brawl, wherein they were wanted games before. I think that Sheik alone could be the way to do the same to get to Impa alone for Smash five, for fans.

---
as far as style, it will be in Hyrule Warriors we finally get all our beloved characters in one similar style

 

[Diddy Kong]

So Duke, you mean to say that you expect Ness and Falco to be cut? If that where to happen, I could easily see Sheik get cut to the next time in favor for Impa. Am not expecting however that it'd be Ness and Falco who will be cut. But quite possibly, Lucas and Jigglypuff may get the boot. And I really hope Ike stays prominent in the Fire Emblem series, otherwise he could have the same fate (which I'd dislike).

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So Duke, you mean to say that you expect Ness and Falco to be cut? If that where to happen, I could easily see Sheik get cut to the next time in favor for Impa. Am not expecting however that it'd be Ness and Falco who will be cut. But quite possibly, Lucas and Jigglypuff may get the boot. And I really hope Ike stays prominent in the Fire Emblem series, otherwise he could have the same fate (which I'd dislike).

Well, delusions is what keep people going. I wouldn't mind seeing players speculate about this (again) and be wrong in the end (again).

 

[proxibomb]

Impa's only roles are to help the player, besides using smoke (I believe), and guiding the player, she doesn't have potential in being a character, at least to me.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Now that i read through this thread, there sure is a lot of captain hindsight going on from many people.

 

[jigglover]

Impa is too unique to Sheik. I don't like how people are arguing that other semi-clones raise Impa's chances in this game. Name a semi-clone that was INTRODUCED in this game. No one? What a surprise. That's because in this game Sakurai is trying to make characters unique in how they play. As such, I heavily disagree with Impa being in smash. Her two best-known appearances are OoT and Skyward Sword. In OoT she literally teaches Sheik how to do what (s)he does. Nothing more, so Impa would be a (semi-)clone. In Skyward Sword (forgive me if I'm wrong, I haven't actually finished the game yet) she's a little old lady at the start, and then for the rest of the game she best gives Sakurai for moveset potential is her running animation! "In Hyrule Warriors she has a long sword!" Impa would play exactly like Marth! They have similar/identical stats, and Impa's combo attack in that game is 100% Marth's Dancing Blade attack in Smash Bros..

Agitha would be unique though! :D

For those of you who are saying that Sheik is going to be cut in favour of Impa... why? Veterinary characters get priority in this case. We're not going to have Jigglypuff get replaced in favour of Aromatisse or some ****. We're not going to have Ness get replaced by Lucas! (STFU Gematsu!) We're certainly not going to have Sonic replaced by Shadow! Impa hasn't done enough in the series for her to be put in the game over Sheik. Fine, thanks to Hyrule Warriors she FINALLY has a playable appearance. Midna, Agitha and Lana would all be very unique, first-time playable characters from the game too! Midna and Agitha most definitely have a fan base (seriously type "Agitha" into Deviantart. She has a lot of fans! ^_^), so popularity is hardly a factor, either. In fact, Midna is far more popular than Impa, and seeing as how a lot of people wouldn't actually pick up on Impa's name by playing through the games, yet they would for Agitha, I'm pretty sure their popularity are on at least similar levels (in favour of Agitha). Impa gets competition from other possible newcomers for sure. Before Midna was announced as an AT, I was pretty confident that she would get in the game as an AT at the very least. I was correct, but I was really gunning for playable character there. Besides, I only listed people who help the hero there (because IMO that's the next thing that should get represented in Smash. Sheik sort of represents it, but we all know (s)he's really Zelda, so it takes away the representation from being a helpful NPC and more on "OMG ZELDA alter-ego".) If we delve into the villains, we have Vaati (100% the next villain to get in should Sakurai want one. Ghirahim haters gonna hate ), Ghirahim I guess (but he's not getting in for a while lol) and then other one-times like Zant, Skull Kid, Ganon, Majora, or Demise. All of these characters play a much larger (or more noticeable, anyway) role than Impa in their respective game(s), and the latter two are just the final bosses. Impa had no chance from the start, and she has no chance in the foreseeable future (Smash 12 maybe? >_<)

 

[Diddy Kong]

And now suddenly, Devianart is the true definition of fandom, Impa would either be a Sheik or a Marth clone, and Agitha is the best possible Zelda pick.

Bias/10 would bias again.

 

[Maffewt]

Has the whole Lucina thing not changed anyone's opinions on Impa..? In spite of loving the character I didn't want Impa to begin with really, I always liked her but preferred Tetra. But now...

1. It ties in with the Trophy theory, whatever you reckon that counts for.
2. Easily bump-uppable from costume to fighter, like Lucina - yet more visual distinction from Sheik than between Lucina and Marth
3. Another badass lady fighter on the roster.
4. Has appeared in the most amount of Zelda games after Link, Zelda and Ganondorf.
5. Was the /first/ character announced for Hyrule Warriors, and heavily promoted.
6. As of point 5, she has now had a major role in FOUR of the pat five Zelda game: Skyward Sword, Ocarina 3DS, Link Between Worlds, and Hyrule Warrios - all bar Wind Waker. Huge presence in the current handheld and previous home console generations - the ones that typically influence Smash most heavily.
7. Now that Nintendo are paying more significant attention to competitive scene, they'll be aware of Sheik's popularity and perhaps consider that will warrant a clone - much the same as Lucina with Marth.
8. Representing Skyward Sword without having to use a probable one-shot character. Also, including someone from SS would leave all the major recent Zelda releases represented.
9. Finally, like TL with Link and Lucy with Marth, their similarity in playstyle would be justified. Impa is the one in Ocarina of Time who trains Sheik - Sheik literally learned everything she knows from her.

If anything, she's become one of my most expected.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Has the whole Lucina thing not changed anyone's opinions on Impa..? In spite of loving the character I didn't want Impa to begin with really, I always liked her but preferred Tetra. But now...

1. It ties in with the Trophy theory, whatever you reckon that counts for.
2. Easily bump-uppable from costume to fighter, like Lucina - yet more visual distinction from Sheik than between Lucina and Marth
3. Another badass lady fighter on the roster.
4. Has appeared in the most amount of Zelda games after Link, Zelda and Ganondorf.
5. Was the /first/ character announced for Hyrule Warriors, and heavily promoted.
6. As of point 5, she has now had a major role in FOUR of the pat five Zelda game: Skyward Sword, Ocarina 3DS, Link Between Worlds, and Hyrule Warrios - all bar Wind Waker. Huge presence in the current handheld and previous home console generations - the ones that typically influence Smash most heavily.
7. Now that Nintendo are paying more significant attention to competitive scene, they'll be aware of Sheik's popularity and perhaps consider that will warrant a clone - much the same as Lucina with Marth.
8. Representing Skyward Sword without having to use a probable one-shot character. Also, including someone from SS would leave all the major recent Zelda releases represented.
9. Finally, like TL with Link and Lucy with Marth, their similarity in playstyle would be justified. Impa is the one in Ocarina of Time who trains Sheik - Sheik literally learned everything she knows from her.

If anything, she's become one of my most expected.

Awesome post! Feel free to post it in the Impa thread. I agree 100%! Marth, Fox and Sheik where easily the most popular Melee characters, so a clone of each (Lucina, Falco, Impa) I feel is justified. Even IF Ghirahim would make it in, Impa could easily be a clone of him, or join the battle regardless alongside him as a Sheik clone. She could even end up being a lighter and faster Ganondorf clone if he ends up using a sword. With the pure flexibility of the character, I think it helps her stick around in the eyes of the development team. And that's definitely a plusside.

 

[Maffewt]

Awesome post! Feel free to post it in the Impa thread. I agree 100%! Marth, Fox and Sheik where easily the most popular Melee characters, so a clone of each (Lucina, Falco, Impa) I feel is justified. Even IF Ghirahim would make it in, Impa could easily be a clone of him, or join the battle regardless alongside him as a Sheik clone. She could even end up being a lighter and faster Ganondorf clone if he ends up using a sword. With the pure flexibility of the character, I think it helps her stick around in the eyes of the development team. And that's definitely a plusside.

Very good point on her flexibility! Nice way to put it. Her character has changed through the iterations more than any other, I would say.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, Sheik players. How would you all react to a clone of Sheik in the character of Impa? Yes, I am personally advocating her getting in with a moveset from Hyrule Warriors (Giant Blade or Naginata I don't care much) or otherwise an unique moveset based on Skyward Sword (which is possible, easily)- but let's just discuss this possibility.

With all this emphasis on ground game, and Sheik being reported as being quite strong on the ground- it would be great if Impa would be more aerial based than Sheik. Impa's F Air and N Air should be kill moves, like they where in Melee for Sheik. The Burst Grenades could / should be replaced by Deku Nuts which will do less damage but far more hitstun. Needles also could be replaced with kunai and be a single projectile for example to make things a little different to avoid a complete Marth / Lucina situation.

Furthermore, she could be either slower and stronger, or faster and lighter.

Would Sheik mains be willing to give Impa a try?

 

[LeeYawshee]

Sure, but these characters we're separating are completely different in terms of play style and movesets. Ryu and Evil Ryu/Link and Young Link may have different properties, but they're clone characters.

Zelda/Sheik are different entirely, and so are Zamus and Samus.

Zelda/Sheik just make more sense together IMO. It's an awesome representation of one of the biggest plot twists in gaming, no to mention the "you unlocked the door" chime from Zelda games, and makes reference to the gargatuan popularity of OoT. Zelda being able to access her other quicker, agile self to adapt just makes more sense IMO than giving her a Phantom to throw out.

Regardless, what's done is done. Unless (and I doubt it) the customer moveset feature will allow Zelda players to switch out the Phantom for Sheik. But with how much he stressed characters will no longer transform, I doubt it.

So you like that plot twist? Well what about the people who haven't played it? Now those people will not be spoiled (unless they read the trophy) because Zelda won't transform. It's honestly kind of genius when you ask me.

 

[Katy Parry]

So you like that plot twist? Well what about the people who haven't played it? Now those people will not be spoiled (unless they read the trophy) because Zelda won't transform. It's honestly kind of genius when you ask me.

Not really... I mean, Zelda is Sheik again in Hyrule Warriors. I'm sure even though Sheik was only in OoT, Nintendo is widely recognizing that Sheik is always Zelda.

 

[GunGunW]

So, Sheik players. How would you all react to a clone of Sheik in the character of Impa? Yes, I am personally advocating her getting in with a moveset from Hyrule Warriors (Giant Blade or Naginata I don't care much) or otherwise an unique moveset based on Skyward Sword (which is possible, easily)- but let's just discuss this possibility.

With all this emphasis on ground game, and Sheik being reported as being quite strong on the ground- it would be great if Impa would be more aerial based than Sheik. Impa's F Air and N Air should be kill moves, like they where in Melee for Sheik. The Burst Grenades could / should be replaced by Deku Nuts which will do less damage but far more hitstun. Needles also could be replaced with kunai and be a single projectile for example to make things a little different to avoid a complete Marth / Lucina situation.

Furthermore, she could be either slower and stronger, or faster and lighter.

Would Sheik mains be willing to give Impa a try?

Personally, I feel like Impa should be the stronger, slower one if she was a clone of Sheik.

 

[LeeYawshee]

Not really... I mean, Zelda is Sheik again in Hyrule Warriors. I'm sure even though Sheik was only in OoT, Nintendo is widely recognizing that Sheik is always Zelda.

Not everyone is going to play Hyrule Warriors, though.

And Hyrule Warriors doesn't spoil it immediately to the point where the direct didn't spoil it.

 

[L9999]

Personally, I feel like Impa should be the stronger, slower one if she was a clone of Sheik.

No thanks, 1 clone of the Lucina case is enough.

 

[LeeYawshee]

No thanks, 1 clone of the Lucina case is enough.

The way Sakurai stated it, we're bound to get more.

 

[L9999]

The way Sakurai stated it, we're bound to get more.

just because Lucina got in as a clone, doesn't mean that we should be getting more clones, this is not 2001 and this is not Melee. Lucina is a bonus and people actually care about Lucina, and Sakurai knows it.

 

[LeeYawshee]

just because Lucina got in as a clone, doesn't mean that we should be getting more clones, this is not 2001 and this is not Melee. Lucina is a bonus and people actually care about Lucina, and Sakurai knows it.

I never said we should be getting them, I said we might.

Lucina was lucky, other characters might get lucky as well. It's not out of the realm of possibility and it would take no time at all.

 

[Katy Parry]

Not everyone is going to play Hyrule Warriors, though.

And Hyrule Warriors doesn't spoil it immediately to the point where the direct didn't spoil it.

Not everyone is going to play my fiddle, either

your point is irrelevant.

It's pretty much a fact that Sheik is always Zelda.

 

[LeeYawshee]

Not everyone is going to play my fiddle, either

your point is irrelevant.

It's pretty much a fact that Sheik is always Zelda.

...Youre taking my post's context away. I said because of her lack of transformation, people who don't know Zelda is Sheik will probably not know it UNLESS they dig further.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No thanks, 1 clone of the Lucina case is enough.

Highly unlikely. Dark Pit is considered as very likely for example. And I think the likes of Dixie Kong and Impa are also extremely likely, probably being a bit more unique to Diddy and Sheik than Lucina is to Marth (could be Ness / Lucas like semi-clones easily). And I did not ask the question if anyone thought it was likely, more about the possibilities. Cause it IS quite likely that Impa will appear in Smash, and it might be in the form of a Sheik clone or semi-clone.

 

[Katy Parry]

...Youre taking my post's context away. I said because of her lack of transformation, people who don't know Zelda is Sheik will probably not know it UNLESS they dig further.

Or get a Sheik trophy in their game ...

 

[LeeYawshee]

Or get a Sheik trophy in their game ...

Which is digging further because you don't get the description until you look at it.

 

[Katy Parry]

Which is digging further because you don't get the description until you look at it.

No, it means the player has access to the information directly while playing the game. If for some reason they do not know about Zelda and Sheik, they'll learn. They have access to the information right on their game.

Your arguments provide both sides every time. If you just wanna go at it with yourself be my guest.

 

[LeeYawshee]

No, it means the player has access to the information directly while playing the game. If for some reason they do not know about Zelda and Sheik, they'll learn. They have access to the information right on their game.

Your arguments provide both sides every time. If you just wanna go at it with yourself be my guest.

Just because information is available for people does not mean they will use it. There are some people who just play Smash for Smash and not anything else. I even used the keyword "probably" in one of my earlier posts to place further emphasis that my point will only apply to some cases.

There's people who read the trophies and those that don't.
There's even fewer that don't know about Zelda/Sheik.
And then there's a crowd of a combination of both. Those people (if they ever play OoT) will be able to experience what you mentioned before (The Zelda Plot twist).

This was my point from the beginning. I didn't mean to make it so it was every single person in the world, but rather a few people who don't enjoy finding things out on their own. And in this day and age, it's more than we might think.

 

[ChubbStep112801]

Ghirahim was disconfirmed in todays pic of the day, where Sakurai states that he is an assist trophy