Firebert
Smash Ace
Yes. In fact, most things cause tripping, I've noticed.
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So...none items user....cant adapt?
- Thread starter DanteSmash7
- Start date
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
Haha, I have played professionally as well. BIN (Best In New York).
Dont assume, make an *** out of yourself. But yeah change is needed. Melee and Brawl are very different. That is why the thread is made. TO exchange ideas.
Make some input other then trolling and bumping the thread.
-Firebert
Yeah? Hmm. Thats interesting.
Dont assume, make an *** out of yourself. But yeah change is needed. Melee and Brawl are very different. That is why the thread is made. TO exchange ideas.
Make some input other then trolling and bumping the thread.
-Firebert
Yeah? Hmm. Thats interesting.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
I also love how he hasn't recognized how overpowered fast characters would become. Yeah, you're totally supposed to "dodge" that heart container that fox got to before you. How about "adapting" to that maximum tomato when you both play at the same skill level?
MorpheusVGX
Smash Journeyman
Heavy characters are very powerful and tough in Brawl. That's how the game is balanced towards item grabbing.
Get mad or cry, but Brawl is probably unbalanced and unfair to fast characters without items.
Get mad or cry, but Brawl is probably unbalanced and unfair to fast characters without items.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
"Bomb trauma"... please. You say it doesn't happen very often.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO. IT ONLY HAS TO HAPPEN ONCE WHEN SOMETHING IMPORTANT IS ON THE LINE.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO. IT ONLY HAS TO HAPPEN ONCE WHEN SOMETHING IMPORTANT IS ON THE LINE.
What a troll.
Dante, your so-called "Smash Spirit" can be defined many ways. Smash Spirit represents everything from a 4-player FFA on Temple with all items on, to Fox only, no items, Final Destination. Neither way is an inherently wrong way to play the game.
Smash Spirit is the sense of "fun" that you get from playing Smash. For the above example, if you think a FFA Temple match with all items on is fun, then by all means, go ahead and do it. Nobody's going to say "You can't play that way!" - Temple is a selectable stage, FFA is a selectable option, items are selectable with the Item Switch.
Now, at the same time, if you want to do an item-less Fox match on FD, why should anyone say "You can't play that way"? Fox is a selectable character, FD is a selectable stage, items are selectable with the Item Switch.
Both options are considered "fun" to different people. If there is anyone who needs to change their view, it is you, Dante, as your narrow-mindedness restricts your view of the "true" Smash Spirit - having fun in any way, shape or form.
This goes to everybody who says "Brawl sucks because there's no wavedashing!" or "64 is the best! Nuke the rest!" If you want to go and wavedash in Melee, no one is stopping you. If you enjoy 64 more than its sequels, go and play it. Every Smash game is different from the others in their own ways, and enjoying one over the others - ie. having "fun" - is what the games were designed for.
Dante, your so-called "Smash Spirit" can be defined many ways. Smash Spirit represents everything from a 4-player FFA on Temple with all items on, to Fox only, no items, Final Destination. Neither way is an inherently wrong way to play the game.
Smash Spirit is the sense of "fun" that you get from playing Smash. For the above example, if you think a FFA Temple match with all items on is fun, then by all means, go ahead and do it. Nobody's going to say "You can't play that way!" - Temple is a selectable stage, FFA is a selectable option, items are selectable with the Item Switch.
Now, at the same time, if you want to do an item-less Fox match on FD, why should anyone say "You can't play that way"? Fox is a selectable character, FD is a selectable stage, items are selectable with the Item Switch.
Both options are considered "fun" to different people. If there is anyone who needs to change their view, it is you, Dante, as your narrow-mindedness restricts your view of the "true" Smash Spirit - having fun in any way, shape or form.
This goes to everybody who says "Brawl sucks because there's no wavedashing!" or "64 is the best! Nuke the rest!" If you want to go and wavedash in Melee, no one is stopping you. If you enjoy 64 more than its sequels, go and play it. Every Smash game is different from the others in their own ways, and enjoying one over the others - ie. having "fun" - is what the games were designed for.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
Then explain all those heavy characters dominating the top tier in Melee... OH WAIT
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
Chunk, go back to the start of the thread. Somewhere there. In fact the first post I made. Considers speed as a factor.
At any rate, in regards to tripping. Not to sure but I have seen players use an item and trip. But then again it was diddy. So might of been his banana.
At any rate, in regards to tripping. Not to sure but I have seen players use an item and trip. But then again it was diddy. So might of been his banana.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
You hardly did. Again, how am I supposed to "adapt" to an equal skill level fox getting a heart before me? Answer this, and I'll go away.
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155819&page=15 for WarxePB and chunkysoupy
There you go. You suffer "Bomb Trauma".
Thats the essence of smash. Chipping away at it.
There you go. You suffer "Bomb Trauma".
Thats the essence of smash. Chipping away at it.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
If we suffer from"Bomb Trauma", then you have a terminal case of "Bomb Denial."
YOU DON'T GET THAT IT ONLY HAS TO HAPPEN ONCE....
In a COMPETITIVE match, with MONEY on the line, tell me what I'm supposed to do in the bomb scenario.
Jooce Bocks
Smash Cadet
I feel like commenting on the "Smash Spirit."
I also don't wish to offend, but saying that we are limited elitists and cowards because we don't simply conform to how you like to play sounds rather.....elitist. Many of us are not trying to tell you that your way of playing is wrong or that you are cowards for doing so, it's just results have shown that random does not have too much room in our competitive scene.
Why does this "Spirit of Smash" win over the spirit of competition and fair play in tournaments? Competitive players want a fair match. Smash Bros. was originally created to be a party game, that's why 4 player games with randomness and chaos were implemented. We (or at least I) still enjoy all the game has to offer....at parties. That's what these features were made for. Saying these do not make it a true party game is what actually speaks against what it was originally created for. Competitive players don't want a party game, we want a fair, competitive game. Since Smash Bros. was to be made for everyone, Sakurai provided us the opportunities to do so. We still play to win, we just want to do so with more of our own skill and less help from the game of chance.
Variety is not always fair. The variety in characters is fair (even if balance is not maintained, we all have the choice of who to pick), and the variety in our list of stages is fair, but the random and chaotic nature of items (or exploitable stages; yes, they are banned becasue they are exploitable, not because we cannot play on them) is not always fair. A match of skill is not fun when it is not fought on equal grounds. Thus, for us, turning these items on (and unfair stages) is what destroys the fun of this game. We will keep to our competitive spirit and you can keep the Smash Spirit (did I mention that Smash is originally a party game?).
Again, that is right. The Smash Spirit is for playing the game as the creator conceived, a Party Game. Brawl was enriched with all of your examples for this very reason and not for fair, competitive play (I believe Sakurai even admitted this himself at one point while creating Brawl). We don't overrate item play, we know it can be fun for what it is made for, but it is not reasonable for how we play. I will state it within this thread once again, "Random cannot be adapted to."
I also don't wish to offend, but saying that we are limited elitists and cowards because we don't simply conform to how you like to play sounds rather.....elitist. Many of us are not trying to tell you that your way of playing is wrong or that you are cowards for doing so, it's just results have shown that random does not have too much room in our competitive scene.
A classic troll answer - responding to a post that totally destroys your argument with something that doesn't make sense.
My post had nothing to do with that, nor am I a competitive player - I enjoy playing item matches with friends and having a good time. That was the point of my post: not everyone has fun playing Smash the way you do.
Do you accept that fact?
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
Finally, some sanity. As to Morpheusvgx's ridiculous idea that fast characters are somehow "gimped" without items....wow...just wow....
Geist
Smash Master
Adapting to completely random events is humanly impossible, because you can't possible prepare for something that hasn't happened yet, let alone something that is completely endless in possibilities. The only thing you can do with completely random events is accept them.
The heart container spawns next to your opponent. The bob-omb lands on you. This is because you lack skill? This is faulty logic, not to mention completely narrow minded to the other virtues that smash has to offer.
Anyone can play the game however they want, and competitive smash will continue being without items. Competition has to be more controlled than casual gaming, because there is more at stake rather than having fun and replaying a game after you've lost. In competition, a mistake can't be redone, whether that mistake be your own fault or out of completely uncontrollable circumstances.
play the game any way you want. Items are able to be turned off because some people want them off. Making names and completely discriminating against other people because they fail to play a game the same way you do is pointless and immature.
The heart container spawns next to your opponent. The bob-omb lands on you. This is because you lack skill? This is faulty logic, not to mention completely narrow minded to the other virtues that smash has to offer.
Anyone can play the game however they want, and competitive smash will continue being without items. Competition has to be more controlled than casual gaming, because there is more at stake rather than having fun and replaying a game after you've lost. In competition, a mistake can't be redone, whether that mistake be your own fault or out of completely uncontrollable circumstances.
play the game any way you want. Items are able to be turned off because some people want them off. Making names and completely discriminating against other people because they fail to play a game the same way you do is pointless and immature.
Pubik Vengeance
Smash Journeyman
Contradiction much.
It is bad *** because it is unfair, and everyone loves an underdog victory.
A New Challenger
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2007
- Messages
- 188
MK has interactive stage elements. Not random items. Nobody plays MK competitively anyway. Moot point on all grounds.
MvC2 and Street Fighter don't have items. At all. They're the ones with Ryu. Karate gi, red headband? Pretty famous in the 90s? When were you born, again?
Sakurai did a few things to make the game less accessible to the hardcore audience, yes. No wavedashing, no L-cancel, tripping and normalized float all say "HAY GUYZ!"
Who said I lost with items on? I don't have a problem playing with them in friendlies. The analogy made wasn't that with items on an 11 year old and a non gamer could beat me -- it was that the game becomes more to their liking. Because one is a child, and the other is playing because Squirtle is cute. They don't know what they're doing, so much.
Anyway, now that I've made an honest refutation which you'll surely ignore -- listen up. Everyone - apply this kiddo's logic to posts about him. Check this out:
DanteSmash7 has the infamous internet troll self-diagnosis "Asperger's Syndrome." What? You don't believe us? You say you don't have it?
Whatever. You're just in denial that someone who is better than you at recognizing Asperger's is telling it like it is.
Hey, not my fault you don't know how to dodge the comment. I'll be over here with the people who are pros at knowing you have Asperger's.
C WAT I DID THAR???
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
This is what everyone has told you Dante. This idea has been repeated many times albeit in different formats. Your response?
"Just adapt!"
"The heart container spawns next to your opponent. The bob-omb lands on you. This is because you lack skill? This is faulty logic, not to mention completely narrow minded to the other virtues that smash has to offer. "
Uh...right.
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
Tsk tsk..again
Yes, but I am talking about the changes even with brawl. To melee. Yes, some people play different ways. Wat people dont want to embrace are facts. That items built upon more tactics and skill.
And their one method of playing is being challenged so its only reasonable for them to react in ATTACKS. Not the issues.
The first portion wasn't meant for you silly.
Yes, but I am talking about the changes even with brawl. To melee. Yes, some people play different ways. Wat people dont want to embrace are facts. That items built upon more tactics and skill.
And their one method of playing is being challenged so its only reasonable for them to react in ATTACKS. Not the issues.
otg
Smash Master
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
As opposed to, you know, calling people cowardly and skill-less?
You say we have one method of playing only. You're assuming that this means there are billions of ways to play! But, you have said that the only real way to play with skill is with ALL items.
We have one way to play, and you have another... SINGLE...way to play. Guess which one is recognized? That's what I thought.
That's fine. If you want to think it is humanly possible to predict randomness, or If you want to think there is some organized AND RECOGNIZED item tournament group.... more power to you.
The rest of us will be waiting for you to go away.
Jooce Bocks
Smash Cadet
Dammit, I almost saw wat you did thar, but this crazy Land Master flew through my window, did a barrel roll as Cyborg Ninja shot out of a glass container, then the land master exploded as it fell through my stage. The distractions, while at the same time dodging this chaotic ninja, prevented me from noticing wat you did thar so I got completely mind-gamed when you asked, "C WAT I DID THAR???" I guess I needed to adapt better.
I just wanted to take the chance to be silly for once. Now to be serious again.
I will accept that items may build upon more tactics (although not too many as what items do is generally pretty straight forward...), but I will accept that items require more skill when you accept that items can lead to death by coincidence. At that point in time we will have developed a situational paradox that will destroy this thread, as adapting to random is impossible, but you would have to adapt to random to be skilled with it.
Now open your arms and prepare to embrace facts: Items are random. Random is 100% unpredictable and thus cannot be adapted to.
At least we are reacting in ways other than saying "Adapt." We are challenging your one way of playing since you initiated a challenge upon ours. You are trying to claim that yours is more compatible for our style than the way we do it. You seem to be the one dodging the vital issues.
A New Challenger
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2007
- Messages
- 188
Oh wow guys. He's in college. I wonder what ****** farm let this gem in. Also, he's severely opposed to gentrification vis-a-vis the dissolution of traditional culture. Look at me, I'm a compassionate political science major.
Anonymous has eyes, yeah?
It's one thing to fail at the internet, kiddo. It's another thing entirely to fail at life. Now that I can see you're doing the latter, I'll take pity on you and let this be. Have fun.
Anonymous has eyes, yeah?
It's one thing to fail at the internet, kiddo. It's another thing entirely to fail at life. Now that I can see you're doing the latter, I'll take pity on you and let this be. Have fun.
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
Take it you fancy me then? Very Mr serious internet guy. Haha. Cute.
Try and contribute something next time pup.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
Try to contribute something yourself, like countering the points made before him. You say we don't respond to your "points", when it takes you ten minutes to come up with this trash?
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
I like the monkey avatar. =)
In regards to adapting. Yeah the random factor you cannot. But after the item is produced. You can see what he/she has. If ninja pops out you know how to get away. A bomb
A. Block with my face
B. Grab it and throw it at em
C. Reflect
D. Dodge it.
So yes, items are very much more tactical. Glad we agree Jooce Bocks.
In regards to adapting. Yeah the random factor you cannot. But after the item is produced. You can see what he/she has. If ninja pops out you know how to get away. A bomb
A. Block with my face
B. Grab it and throw it at em
C. Reflect
D. Dodge it.
So yes, items are very much more tactical. Glad we agree Jooce Bocks.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
You forgot E: Pick it up and gain an obscene amount of % back that I didn't deserve.
Or F: Hit it with my already charging smash attack, only to have it explode and kill me.
Remember, you agree that items are tactical, you also agree that items lead to death by coincidence.
Jooce Bocks said:
"I will accept that items may build upon more tactics (although not too many as what items do is generally pretty straight forward...), but I will accept that items require more skill when you accept that items can lead to death by coincidence. At that point in time we will have developed a situational paradox that will destroy this thread, as adapting to random is impossible, but you would have to adapt to random to be skilled with it."
Try reading the whole thing this time, instead of just ignoring things you don't like.
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
You cannot control tripping and take it from someone who used to play in tournaments for $.
It is why this thread was built. Imagine your playing and you trip both you and your enemy are 100%. Guess what, you lost the pot.
So yes, in that case. Re-evaluating why this was added and cannot be "turned off". Is worth the time. Like I said before, different game. Sorry, to say but maybe your logic applied in Melee, doesn't in brawl.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
You cannot control tripping and take it from someone who used to play in tournaments for $.
It is why this thread was built. Imagine your playing and you trip both you and your enemy are 100%. Guess what, you lost the pot.
So yes, in that case. Re-evaluating why this was added and cannot be "turned off". Is worth the time. Like I said before, different game. Sorry, to say but maybe your logic applied in Melee, doesn't in brawl.
Oh wait? So you're basically admitting that the randomness here is bad? Gee, it sure would be great if we could eliminate as much randomness as possible for tourney play! Too bad nothing like that exists....wait.....
thesage
Smash Hero
I would srsly like to know what items you think would be allowed in tournaments.
Let me tell you how i started to play without items. It all started with ssb64. We use to play mostly pokeball on very high. we just spam pokeball. But then i took items to another lvl while my friends use the items in the game. I simply threw the items at my opponent. A much more effective way of killing my opponents. Then my friends started to catch on so we were both throwing items like crazy. It got to the point who can throw the items the best. no skills in that except try to mindgame, dodge, throw items.
Then I started to tell them lets play no items, we tried it. They didnt like it. Only one guy agreed with me. After my other friends saw how my friend and I played, they soon realize that its about fighting with your skills not battle of the item war. I soon started to play maps with none to little environment effect.
THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT YOU WANT TO PROVE YOU WON BY THE ONLY FACTOR OF YOU!
With items and environment effect, you or your opponent will make excuses, OMG LUCKY YOU HAD THAT ITEM, or OMG LUCKY THE TORNADO GOT ME. That is the reason why I do not play with items.
You get what Im saying? It was only till last year I found out that they had people who played similar to me.
1vs1
No Items
Fox Only
Final Destination
Then I started to tell them lets play no items, we tried it. They didnt like it. Only one guy agreed with me. After my other friends saw how my friend and I played, they soon realize that its about fighting with your skills not battle of the item war. I soon started to play maps with none to little environment effect.
THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT YOU WANT TO PROVE YOU WON BY THE ONLY FACTOR OF YOU!
With items and environment effect, you or your opponent will make excuses, OMG LUCKY YOU HAD THAT ITEM, or OMG LUCKY THE TORNADO GOT ME. That is the reason why I do not play with items.
You get what Im saying? It was only till last year I found out that they had people who played similar to me.
1vs1
No Items
Fox Only
Final Destination
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
Didn't you read the entire thread? Hearts and Tomatoes should be in because they're, and I quote, "badass."
Something like, "Imagine beating someone who got a recovery item! That would be badass!"
Something like, "Imagine beating someone who got a recovery item! That would be badass!"
thesage
Smash Hero
Justin Wiles
Smash Journeyman
C'mon, someone call him a virgin so we can get off-topic arguing over who gets laid more. I love those threads.
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
Yeah I get what your saying, I just know it takes more tactics and skill to win a Item battle with stocks or with time. Thats all I am pointing out. That with Brawl it more than likly people will find more item tournaments then before. For many different factors. Not that melee didn't have item tournaments but they were less.
-Chunky
In the mind of a competitive player, but re-defining what that is in this new game. Dont be so silly. Like I said the creator put tripping for a reason.
Random-ness is bad for him. I answered him. Not you. Haha. But yeah to some its a bad thing. To others it isnt. In the above example provided. I point to why it is a bad thing for him in regards to $.
But I take it you haven't been able to take down someone who has taken a full heart. Yeah? Item matches 1 vs 1 it can be very epic. I dont know but the dude that took out the guy who got that item. I dont know about you but you cant be any more competitive than that. And by the way if that happens 100% of the time to you.
You suffer from what? Oh yeah..."Bomb Trauma" (Place w/e item you wish to place)
-thesage
Tournaments back in the day weren't restricted to none items. Even today many more arent.
DanteSmash7
Smash Apprentice
Haha
Yo can you point me to one? I have to break night cause am writing a paper. Plus smashing random peeps time to time.
NU UH! Oh my god! WHY!!! why be sooo mean to me!!!
Yo can you point me to one? I have to break night cause am writing a paper. Plus smashing random peeps time to time.
chunkysoupy
Smash Cadet
Source on those increasing number of item tournaments please.
I've said it before, if we have Bomb Trauma, you have Bomb Denial. In an equally skilled match, a heart can be match breaking. In an unskilled match, not so much, because you know you can win anyway. Stop saying recovery items can't turn the tide of battles. You make it sound like the person who picked it up can't play for crap. You make it sound like you want battles to be DRAWN OUT AND EPICZORZ! (because you can't have that without random drops...right....right?_
Some of us would rather rely on personal skill, with the LEAST amount of randomness.
Least
Least
Least
This means, just in case for some reason you can't figure it out.
Tripping: obviously on.
Items: off
Is it REALLY that hard?
Okay, long time lurker, first time poster. This thread is what ultimately made me join.
I have an interesting Melee story to tell. At a Gamestop they had Melee going, and I ended up playing this one guy. He was okay, nothing to sneeze at, but I clearly had more experience at the game. The first game was a non-item battle, and I three-stocked him. The second game was with items, and he won with one stock left. Why? Not because I can't handle my items, I'm a Peach player. He was fortunate enough to have THREE Maxim Tomatoes spawn near him. When it comes to that, clearly he had the upper hand, thus the fight wasn't fair. And don't say "If you're any good you would have beaten him anyway." The only reason someone could ever beat the guy who got a healing item is because the skill level is already so distant that one guy is clearly going to win. In a fight between two who are equal in skill, an item match means it comes down to luck. In my case I believe I was better, but not by enough.
With that said, I hope I have a good time on the forum. The community looks to be a nice one, when they're not trying to argue their opinion anyway.
I have an interesting Melee story to tell. At a Gamestop they had Melee going, and I ended up playing this one guy. He was okay, nothing to sneeze at, but I clearly had more experience at the game. The first game was a non-item battle, and I three-stocked him. The second game was with items, and he won with one stock left. Why? Not because I can't handle my items, I'm a Peach player. He was fortunate enough to have THREE Maxim Tomatoes spawn near him. When it comes to that, clearly he had the upper hand, thus the fight wasn't fair. And don't say "If you're any good you would have beaten him anyway." The only reason someone could ever beat the guy who got a healing item is because the skill level is already so distant that one guy is clearly going to win. In a fight between two who are equal in skill, an item match means it comes down to luck. In my case I believe I was better, but not by enough.
With that said, I hope I have a good time on the forum. The community looks to be a nice one, when they're not trying to argue their opinion anyway.
BlackWhiteOrange
Smash Cadet
HAHAHAHAHA. How the hell does someone as stupid as you even manage to TYPE
? SURE you went to a tournament. You probably played for $5 with 3 or 4 other noobs on Hyrule Temple in a free-for all.Using items takes NO SKILL. NONE WHATSOEVER. You walk over to the item, press A and then press A again to throw. A complete ****** (like you) could do it.
STOP setting yourself up as a talented genius who is so much better than all the pros and can adapt better. You're not. Even if you camped, item-wh*red and spammed all your matches the pros would still destroy you EVERY SINGLE TIME because a scrub with items is still a scrub. You are a sh*t player who wants items in so you can mash buttons and still have a chance of winning.
Look at this:
You even ADMIT that the more items on, the more chaotic and random the matches so by your own logic, we should turn them off because they make the match "random and chaotic."
Free for all matches DO NOT WORK because people can gang up on the best players, spam moves easily, or run away from the battle so that they don't lose any health or stock and then kill the last remaining player who is at a huge disadvantage.
Also, please try to improve upon you terrible grammar. A typo here or there is no big deal but your grammar is just awful. "None items user" actually makes no real grammatical sense, and is lacking in verb agreement. Try "non-item users." You're getting the words "you're" (which is a contracting of "you are") and "your" (the possessive form of the second-person personal pronoun) mixed up. And if you could avoid putting periods where they don't belong (like in the middle of sentences) that would be great.
Also, if you could jump off a cliff or drink some bleach, that would be great too, and you'd be doing the world a favour.