So Brawl has no tech skill?

[Barge]

But really, people who say brawl sucks should really just lay off, I mean, they don't even have to play it, they can still play melee and theres still tons of melee tournaments

 

[iMichael]

Good video imo.....it doesn't have melee tech skill, but it does have some. I think that's what he was trying to point out all along. I don't get why people go around thread to thread just dissing Brawl like that.

 

[Lovage 805]

I have both copies or brawl and melee and play them frequently. I can SH laser fast fall while advancing with fox pretty consistently......in LIGHTNING MELEE. They say he has a 2 frame window for a short hop, my thumbs don't care. Still working on other stuff.


And Me14K, your post helped me understand the difference between something that can be considered an "advanced technique" and that which is a "glitch". I understand that when a person uses many AT's together consistently with great results, we can say that person has great "technical skill."

rofl is that supposed to be technical, you're sad

seriously if you were remotely impressed by anything in this video you never played melee

 

[E.M.]

"rofl is that supposed to be technical, you're sad"

OK you ****ing prick explain what technical is? Come on I'm ****ing waiting and nobody is answering.

Explain to me in detail what technical is in smash bros. I see lots of cawk sucking mouths being opened but nothing useful is coming out.

I'll be opening up this thread from time to time, waiting for the answer. Because so far, none of you idiots seem to know what technical is, yet you claim "this is more technical than that".

Give me a ****ing answer already. What's supposed to be technical?

 

[Oracle]

dedede's mechanical hammer is the most technical thing in brawl lololololol

^^^^This.
Yeah, it's kind of sad that this video is the peak of brawl technicality. Melee had stuff that was so hard to perform, it was almost impossible without AR- http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8951480404621871932
Watch that and tell me brawl is technical.

 

[Sosuke]

so hard to perform, it was almost impossible without AR- http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8951480404621871932
Watch that and tell me brawl is technical.

You can't argue with that.

 

[E.M.]

Don't give me a bull**** video with AR being used to tell me what's technical.

I need a clear definition, in words. Otherwise shut the **** up and don't tell me "this is more tech than that".

 

[LunInSpectra]

There is nothing difficult to do in Super Smash Brothers Brawl, for the Wii.

Nothing.

At all.

Zero.



:'(

Edit:

I'm wrong. After reading g-reg's post (in someone's signature), it Has lead me to other thinking.

I liked tech skill in melee because that was the One aspect that gave me an automatic advantage over everyone else. But...after having it for a while, people began to creep up and developed tech skill that was very close to mine. When I went to bigger tournaments, like OC3/SCC/MLG...tech skill didn't matter -- Everyone in brackets had it. The only thing I could depend on that could give me an advantage was the mental game.

The mental game is and always will be the Hardest aspect that can't Ever be mastered. Developing your playstyle to be powerful to the opponents mind, unbreakable in all situations, and uncontrollable is one of the Best things to perfect after mastering technical aspects. Preventing yourself from emotional distraction, taking control of the match, and dominating your opponents mind are All skills that I focused on developing to get to the top. Sometimes it got me close and sometimes it got me the win. I never refined it as well as my technical skill -- its a million times harder for me.

Brawl goes directly toward the mental game -- the only thing I could use to win me some giftcards.




Edit:

E.M.:

I can honestly say I have a lot of tech. I defined tech to be the ability to perform something that Most other people can't do for reasons of: Physical Inaccuracy, speed, timing, and endurance. A good example would be playing the piano (I play the piano!).

Y'wanna see something techy? (Something techy that doesn't sound stupid).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khJaHNocYK0 <--its a pretty cool piano performance. Its worth watching.

 

[Oracle]

Tech=something advanced that isn't encouraged by the game's makers, such as l-cancelling, shine-canceling, wavedashing, etc. It's supposed to be difficult so there is a gap between those who are good and those who arent.

The video proves that some tech's are so hard to perform that they need AR.
The source of all technical skill is Captain falcon's knee of justice. They made it suck in brawl, and now there are no advanced tech's in brawl.

 

[E.M.]

Good good, now we are getting somewhere.

After much thought, I've realized something here. What "advanced technique" isn't actually a glitch? I think it is fact that most "techs" are in fact glitches that happen to be useful.

For example, in melee, the jump canceled shine. How is that NOT a glitch? You can't do **** out of the shine except jump. Seems like the programmers over saw that little quirk. It IS a glitch, but since it can be used to waveshine, it is renamed an "advanced technique".

Let's talk about L-canceling. They say in melee it was left in there so you couldn't define it as a "glitch". But what about in ssb64 where it originated from? I've heard that z-canceling in ssb64 wasn't put in on purpose, so wouldn't you say that it is a glitch? Of course it is and so is L-canceling in melee. It just so happens that it's useful when mixed with fast falling and/or short hop aerials to create an "advanced technique" called "shffling".

Seems like useful advanced techniques are actually glitches and other game mechanics mixed in with each other.

 

[LunInSpectra]

I'm a programmer -- and I'm not sure if L-Cancelling was a mistake. When you press L as you're landing after doing an aerial in melee the amount of frames that are supposed to be processed decrease, making lag shorter.

Whoever defined the function of pressing L/R/Z in melee put some Frame-Modification in there as well.

...it doesn't really seem like a glitch to me. I'd be a little more convinced that it was a glitch If L-Cancelling gave aerial moves 0-lag.

 

[`Jammin' Jobus]

i find it hard to believe that programmers accidentally programmed in z cancelling in ssb64, then proceeded to accidently program in the same function for l/r in ssbm.

i'm not a programmer or nothing but it makes so sense to me

 

[Oracle]

JCshine is not a glitch. In 64 the spike was weak and could not be canceled, leaving fox open in the air to an attack or up-B. They gave him the ability to cancel it with a jump so he could get back to the stage faster.

L- canceling is not a glitch. The melee people said that at some point.

 

[Vall3y]

e.m wtf do you want?
wtf do glitches have anything to do with tech skill anyway?
the amount of techskill melee needs is tenfold what is needed to play brawl . fact. and it doenst matter if some if it includes glitches, wtf? and just for the record i do believe melee still takes x5 more techskill than brawl without glitches (even going by your absurd definition)
and tech skill is technique , search wiki for it if you dont know what that is

and lol @ LC is a glitch. it reduces ****ing half the lag, half the lag for all the moves, it doesnt remove it completely and not the same amount all the time. how could it be a glitch? and its not like the animation gets cut off in the middle, it changes so wtf thats a lot of work put into that glitch

 

[Massiveguns]

e.m wtf do you want?
wtf do glitches have anything to do with tech skill anyway?
the amount of techskill melee needs is tenfold what is needed to play brawl . fact. and it doenst matter if some if it includes glitches, wtf? and just for the record i do believe melee still takes x5 more techskill than brawl without glitches (even going by your absurd definition)
and tech skill is technique , search wiki for it if you dont know what that is

and lol @ LC is a glitch. it reduces ****ing half the lag, half the lag for all the moves, it doesnt remove it completely and not the same amount all the time. how could it be a glitch? and its not like the animation gets cut off in the middle, it changes so wtf thats a lot of work put into that glitch

this movie is to show brawl is good and not to say melee is bad please stop comparing the 2 you
this is not the place

 

[Oracle]

But brawl is not good, and melee is not bad. It actually is the place because melee has tech skill, and brawl doesn't.

 

[Resident_Smash_Genius]

Tech=something advanced that isn't encouraged by the game's makers, such as l-cancelling, shine-canceling, wavedashing, etc. It's supposed to be difficult so there is a gap between those who are good and those who arent.

This I have to disagree with. Even melee AT's are learnable. Tech skill, is tech skill, that's all. You can be good at Melee and not have as much tech skill.

 

[fabianmo]

I have a friend who never needed Tech Skill at all to win a lot of us who did use, he was just pure mindgames and L-cancels. Now, if you used Tech Skills at melee its alright, why cant I try to use this techs to become better or exploit my char even more? But, they are not necessary, at the end what counts its how you play against the person/char that its against you, but I do think it was easier if you used Tech Skill.
And who cares if they were/werent a glitch, at the end all they did was make the game more enjoyable, with more replay value, more competitive, etc.

 

[Massiveguns]

But brawl is not good, and melee is not bad. It actually is the place because melee has tech skill, and brawl doesn't.

The tech skill helps, but many of brawls flaws fall in other area's of the game such as floaty'ness and effectiveness of camping, but what i am trying to say is that MAKE THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT brawl and not about melee *EX* if you think brawl is bad explain why it is bad and don't just say its bad because melee was better. ^PLEASE AND THANK YOU^

 

[otg]

Luninspectra: Whilst I agree that Brawl is predominantly the mental aspect of gaming (for lack of a better word, mindgames), removing the physically demanding aspect of the serious has actually made the game more shallow.

AT's don't define Melee, but they certainly enhance it by giving you tons of different options at all times. The same cannot be said for Brawl, as it is slower, has less options and is a camp-fest.

I'm sorry, but I feel like people who acknowledge that Melee is a better game yet play Brawl are sellouts only interested in whats popular for Money. (this might not be the case for you Lunin, but for many other smashers it is).

 

[himynameisruss]

I'm wrong. After reading g-reg's post (in someone's signature), it Has lead me to other thinking.

I liked tech skill in melee because that was the One aspect that gave me an automatic advantage over everyone else. But...after having it for a while, people began to creep up and developed tech skill that was very close to mine. When I went to bigger tournaments, like OC3/SCC/MLG...tech skill didn't matter -- Everyone in brackets had it. The only thing I could depend on that could give me an advantage was the mental game.

The mental game is and always will be the Hardest aspect that can't Ever be mastered. Developing your playstyle to be powerful to the opponents mind, unbreakable in all situations, and uncontrollable is one of the Best things to perfect after mastering technical aspects. Preventing yourself from emotional distraction, taking control of the match, and dominating your opponents mind are All skills that I focused on developing to get to the top. Sometimes it got me close and sometimes it got me the win. I never refined it as well as my technical skill -- its a million times harder for me.

Brawl goes directly toward the mental game -- the only thing I could use to win me some giftcards.

gotta say that mindset is pretty dumb

that's like someone making a fighter with one character with one move and one stage, and saying "hey, this game is better because no one has a technical, and it's all about the mindgames"

just because a game is more focused on the mental portion, doesn't mean it's better. the main reason i love melee over brawl is because i enjoy putting the time into, and learning all of the techniques that are available. i'm able to constantly become a better player technically and mentally. i can play melee for hours, while brawl, on the other hand, bores me after 30 minutes of playing.

 

[Massiveguns]

gotta say that mindset is pretty dumb

that's like someone making a fighter with one character with one move and one stage, and saying "hey, this game is better because no one has a technical, and it's all about the mindgames"

just because a game is more focused on the mental portion, doesn't mean it's better. the main reason i love melee over brawl is because i enjoy putting the time into, and learning all of the techniques that are available. i'm able to constantly become a better player technically and mentally. i can play melee for hours, while brawl, on the other hand, bores me after 30 minutes of playing.

(PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING) - This movie is about brawl and how brawl has the potential to be a great game. It is in no way about melee, don't respond about melee don't think about melee. If this is boring tell me what i can do to make it better. If u post anything about how this is worse then melee u should probably kill yourself for being to stupid to read this.

DON'T COMPARE THEM HERE lunin was just saying brawl can be good and not trying to say its better or worse (i think).

 

[Massiveguns]

marth1 is a cheater and yes that is more difficult then what i did that guy owns

 

[Zankoku]

I think you got out-techskilled by this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ltTJPGbCho

 

[otg]

gotta say that mindset is pretty dumb

that's like someone making a fighter with one character with one move and one stage, and saying "hey, this game is better because no one has a technical, and it's all about the mindgames"

just because a game is more focused on the mental portion, doesn't mean it's better. the main reason i love melee over brawl is because i enjoy putting the time into, and learning all of the techniques that are available. i'm able to constantly become a better player technically and mentally. i can play melee for hours, while brawl, on the other hand, bores me after 30 minutes of playing.

I would have to agree with this general statement. Fact of the matter is brawl doesn't really have much tech skill so your "tech video" falls pretty short. Sorry, just IMO.

 

[LunInSpectra]

gotta say that mindset is pretty dumb

that's like someone making a fighter with one character with one move and one stage, and saying "hey, this game is better because no one has a technical, and it's all about the mindgames"

just because a game is more focused on the mental portion, doesn't mean it's better. the main reason i love melee over brawl is because i enjoy putting the time into, and learning all of the techniques that are available. i'm able to constantly become a better player technically and mentally. i can play melee for hours, while brawl, on the other hand, bores me after 30 minutes of playing.

I actually don't understand how that mindset is dumb -- I hoped it to be rather enlightening. I never said brawl was better -- I'm still a melee fan.

You like melee more than brawl because you enjoy learning techniques and mastering them, but...after (pretty much) mastering the techniques, you will notice it to be a lot like brawl.

I played brawl the other day, hoping to learn & master some new techniques, but to my re-discovery...there's nothing really to learn. I felt like I couldn't be any better than the mindset I had to play the game -- a similar feeling I'd get for melee. There was nothing to learn that I could really use to get me any better in melee after a while, the only thing I could use was my mind.

I think if you look into it enough, you'll agree with me. The mental game is almost all brawl has -- you should give it that.

 

[Oracle]

(PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING) - This movie is about brawl and how brawl has the potential to be a great game. It is in no way about melee, don't respond about melee don't think about melee. If this is boring tell me what i can do to make it better. If u post anything about how this is worse then melee u should probably kill yourself for being to stupid to read this.

DON'T COMPARE THEM HERE lunin was just saying brawl can be good and not trying to say its better or worse (i think).

But brawl can't be better. Brawl is "go to platform, plant mine, go down, plant C4, roll backwards, press b to throw grenades, f tilt when close." That is not technical.

Furthermore, you already brought melee into the debate when you referenced the fact that all the melee players point out that brawl has no tech skill. Which it doesn't.

marth1 is a cheater

NO JOHNS

 

[Massiveguns]

its always fun to be *****ed out by the guy with the anime sig and the completely irrelevant comment about snake requiring no skill..... I SAID IT can have skill not always will require skill.

honestly if you want to post here discuss my video or go somewhere else, you are just wasting your time time and my time at this point.

 

[Azzizaz]

I like the conflicting statements spewing out of Massive's mouth.

 

[metroid1117]

I commend you for trying to show that Brawl has potential (Brawl fan here), but you could've tried doing more technical stuff. JC Shining is much more technical than turnaround laser -> grab, along with dribbling bananas with Diddy, ISJR, IC's and D3's infinite chainthrows, Arrow Looping, etc. Note how the latter half of what I listed doesn't require fast fingers, but requires precision; that is another aspect of (what I consider to be) tech skill that some players overlook.

 

[ArcNatural]

I actually don't understand how that mindset is dumb -- I hoped it to be rather enlightening. I never said brawl was better -- I'm still a melee fan.

You like melee more than brawl because you enjoy learning techniques and mastering them, but...after (pretty much) mastering the techniques, you will notice it to be a lot like brawl.

I played brawl the other day, hoping to learn & master some new techniques, but to my re-discovery...there's nothing really to learn. I felt like I couldn't be any better than the mindset I had to play the game -- a similar feeling I'd get for melee. There was nothing to learn that I could really use to get me any better in melee after a while, the only thing I could use was my mind.

I think if you look into it enough, you'll agree with me. The mental game is almost all brawl has -- you should give it that.

I'll give you this, but you should also point out the mindgame variance between the games. Brawl has a lot more focus on airdodging, and basically rolling/spotdodging in general. Melee I feel you can get a lot more movement tricks going. So I would say that I like Melee Mindgames better than Brawls, simply because I can play melee longer for basically that reason. More movement. Brawl after an hour or so just get's to me because there is just overall less movement on the ground at least.

 

[Massiveguns]

I commend you for trying to show that Brawl has potential (Brawl fan here), but you could've tried doing more technical stuff. JC Shining is much more technical than turnaround laser -> grab, along with dribbling bananas with Diddy, ISJR, IC's and D3's infinite chainthrows, Arrow Looping, etc. Note how the latter half of what I listed doesn't require fast fingers, but requires precision; that is another aspect of (what I consider to be) tech skill that some players overlook.

thank you that is what i was looking for i will try to add these and many more in my next one