Snake's tilt range advantage... temporary?

[Tenki]

Eh, I guess this is the best place to address this, since I assume Snake players will know the range of their own moves...

Anyway, it's a generally-known fact that Snake has "broken hitboxes" due to his absorption of Mewtwo and Douglas' DNA, allowing him to shoot stun beams from his legs, and most notably, his knee.

The tilts gets alot of players off guard due to its invisible graphics and deceptive range, not to mention the tilts having disjointed hitboxes.

So... does it (invisible hitboxes) play a major part in Snake's wins?

Does the difficulty to win a match increase a little, significantly, at all, etc, if you're fighting an opponent who knows Snake's range?

[edit]I guess some obvious warning signs of the fact that you're only taking advantage of your opponent's lack of knowledge would be that your tilts are never shielded or dodged correctly...

I don't know anyone near me who plays Snake, and I can't even practice on Wifi because my Wii can't get online atm, so I can't really test it out myself. If it's really just a matter of your opponents getting caught by invisible hitboxes, then it might just be a 'temporary' advantage that Snake has before people get onto blocking, dodging, and getting around his attacks, similar to what happened to Ike.

 

[CKaiser]

except snake's attacks still have long range, and they come out a lot faster than Ike.'s The problem with snake is you HAVE to get near him and his range and speed is there. Also most of his tilts can be done out of shield as punishment because they are fast. Doesn't matter if you know they are there, they will still hurt you as they are a lot harder to avoid or punish than ike's

 

[Elemental Knight]

It's like CKaiser said. Everyone I play against knows how far these moves go, but they're still every bit as potent. Though the little surprise bonus might be gone, it doesn't diminish their efficacy in my mind--to put it quite bluntly, Snakes moves come out quickly, and Ike's do not. It comes down to mind games, then--can the opponent effectively predict what you'll do? As opposed to Ike, where you just look to see what move he's started doing and react accordingly (prediction is pretty much required only on bair and Quick Draw, and only maybe on that one).

 

[Browny]

its not the fact that you get surprised by it, its simply that his ftilt hits a good 2m in front of him. you can space all you want with marth fair, dedede ftilt, the magic knee just goes on its merry way right through everything.

honestly though, i do believe its temporary to an extent. the fact that anyone ever loses as snake in a tourney is beyond me, excluding a CG spamming dedede there can be no excuse imo, so obviously many others have figured out the secret to getting past him, its just going to take a long time for the rest of us to figure it out.

 

[Hostility]

its not the fact that you get surprised by it, its simply that his ftilt hits a good 2m in front of him. you can space all you want with marth fair, dedede ftilt, the magic knee just goes on its merry way right through everything.

honestly though, i do believe its temporary to an extent. the fact that anyone ever loses as snake in a tourney is beyond me, excluding a CG spamming dedede there can be no excuse imo, so obviously many others have figured out the secret to getting past him, its just going to take a long time for the rest of us to figure it out.

Snake isn't invincible, his tilts are good but they don't have priority over everything, and if you have proper spacing you can punish tilts. And snakes tilts do not go through marth's sword or dedede's ftilt, I have no idea where you got that bull****.

 

[bman in 2288]

The thing about Snake's broken hitboxes are that they apply the same priority an power everywhere. Snake's utilt, the tilt with the most broken of hitboxes, can easily take out an Ike attempting to rush you with quick draw. It's not about the size, range of the hitboxes. It's that they come out quick and totally ****. That's all there is to it.

 

[Hostility]

You shouldn't be hitting people with quickdraw if you're playing ike. That suggests to me that your spacing sucks, and snake's tilts **** bad spacing. So work on your spacing and snake's tilts won't be as invincible as they seem right now/

 

[bman in 2288]

Meh, truth. But still, since you can't really see the hitboxes, it gets discerning to the point of the other character not being able to reach you either. Unless they have large hitboxes, too.

 

[Sinz]

I think that this is actually pointless. Snakes range is one of his strongest weapons, like marth in melee.

 

[abit_rusty]

I have a vid recorded of me using utilt to outrange a DK punch (hard to believe, yes, but it's there on video). It was epic lol. I'll see if I can upload it.

If your spacing is impeccable your invisible hitboxes will be killer to your opponent.

 

[Hostility]

You probably just hit DK's arm since he sticks it out so far when doing the giant punch. I'm pretty sure giant punch has more range.

 

[abit_rusty]

You probably just hit DK's arm since he sticks it out so far when doing the giant punch. I'm pretty sure giant punch has more range.

Yes I did hit his arm. That's what was ridiculous about it because the giant punch has tremendous range and super armor. I was kind of like "what the...oh well lol"...since the utilt killed him

 

[bman in 2288]

Fully charged DK punch or just a good amount of charge?

 

[Hostility]

Yes I did hit his arm. That's what was ridiculous about it because the giant punch has tremendous range and super armor. I was kind of like "what the...oh well lol"...since the utilt killed him

So yea, you didn't out range him, he mis spaced a giant punch and you hit his gigantic arm after the punch missed. That isn't the same as out ranging the giant punch. And the giant punch doesn't have SA frames the entire time either so it shouldn't surprise you that you killed him, especially considering he had missed the punch in the first place.

 

[samdaballer]

tilts are what makes snake, if you watch any good snake, like cort for example, his game is largely made up of tilts

 

[LoyalSoldier]

tilts are what makes snake, if you watch any good snake, like cort for example, his game is largely made up of tilts

And it has to be made up of tilts because his smash moves are more utility moves than actual attacks. Only one that can really be used as an assault is his UpSmash in the form of his snake dash. His tilts are really his main weapons when enemies get in close.