Snake wins tournaments. My question is...

[pieisamazing]

...how? I've seen many skilled Snake players (Pyscho ****** comes to mind), but they always seem to win by a very slim margin and even then, their opponent could have defeated them if they had simply played a little better.

I only play Snake for fun and am by no means proficient in all of the strategies and techniques that some of the better players use, but I am curious as to why people consider him to be one of the best characters.

He has great control of the stage, ridiculous range (tilts, anyone?), and powerful killing moves, but some of that seems to be worth nil when his relatively low speed is considered. Hell, a blaster-spamming Wolf (one of my friends) is hell to get past with Snake. His jumps don't give much height, and he falls like a rock, much too quickly to do many attacks in the air (yes, I know how to effectively use most of them, e.g. Full Hop Nair because SH Nair doesn't finish and lags on landing).

Forgive me if some of that wasn't thought out well, or I am overlooking something.

In summary: Why does Snake win tournaments, is it the player or the character... or both?

 

[Cecilanius]

I just think we Snake players lose concentration on how to approach. It's hard to think at that point of time. Dodging the other player's attacks is hard to do while thinking of a way to get that person to stop. At the end of the match, I usually get myself together and win. It is such a terrible habit. I wish my mind can process during the whole match. I think that most Snake players aren't ready enough to concentrate. They just do the same thing I do; not concentrate. I still fail to do the easiest techniques during a match because I'm hardly thinking. It's something everyone needs to get over.

I think as time goes on, Snake players will have the attacks and dodges on muscle and brain memory. I mean, it's only been a few months...

 

[strike42]

I just think we Snake players lose concentration on how to approach. It's hard to think at that point of time. Dodging the other player's attacks is hard to do while thinking of a way to get that person to stop. At the end of the match, I usually get myself together and win. It is such a terrible habit. I wish my mind can process during the whole match. I think that most Snake players aren't ready enough to concentrate. They just do the same thing I do; not concentrate. I still fail to do the easiest techniques during a match because I'm hardly thinking. It's something everyone needs to get over.

I think as time goes on, Snake players will have the attacks and dodges on muscle and brain memory. I mean, it's only been a few months...

i'm the same way too my brain just craps out on me. it like i have it all set up in my head but it doesn't come out the way i thought it would

 

[Statistics]

...how? I've seen many skilled Snake players (Pyscho ****** comes to mind), but they always seem to win by a very slim margin and even then, their opponent could have defeated them if they had simply played a little better.

I only play Snake for fun and am by no means proficient in all of the strategies and techniques that some of the better players use, but I am curious as to why people consider him to be one of the best characters.

He has great control of the stage, ridiculous range (tilts, anyone?), and powerful killing moves, but some of that seems to be worth nil when his relatively low speed is considered. Hell, a blaster-spamming Wolf (one of my friends) is hell to get past with Snake. His jumps don't give much height, and he falls like a rock, much too quickly to do many attacks in the air (yes, I know how to effectively use most of them, e.g. Full Hop Nair because SH Nair doesn't finish and lags on landing).

Forgive me if some of that wasn't thought out well, or I am overlooking something.

In summary: Why does Snake win tournaments, is it the player or the character... or both?

Superior space control, excellent shield pressure, and instant 25 damage punishes for *all* predicted spot dodges and rolls.

 

[abit_rusty]

I think that makes sense, how matches come close in the end.

Usually you spend the early portion of the match reading your opponent, then modifying your style to react to theirs. His moves don't exactly "flow" into each other, so you have to play, in layman's terms, step-by-step. Snake's game is not as one dimensional as other characters. Not to be ignorant, I know that no one character's game is truly one dimensional, but for example:

Samus - lagless aerials into fsmash/dsmash/jab
Marth - fair>fair/uair/shield breaker>fsmash/dtilt approach. Rack up damage with dancing blade.
Pika - full-hopped thunder jolts spam into possible grabs, QAC into aerial or more thunder jolts
G&W - bair/fair spacing for approach and defense

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in these examples, the strategies can be used for almost every encounter, maybe just increasing/decreasing the frequency which they are used, whereas the Snake player has to adjust himself to the opponent and figure out what works best in that situation. So it takes time to develop a strategy to win. The problem with this is in high level play you often have an uphill battle trying to acclimate yourself to your opponent's playstyle and trying to look for hard-to-find openings,, resulting in a close win if it does happen. That's my theory anyway.

edit: Doh, I just realized I never addressed your question OP, lol. It is definitely is both the character and the player. I guess to elaborate on my point, you'll win if you can quickly react to your opponent's actions and adjust your playstyle to counter them. At times it takes a bit of luck and daring, especially if what you know and rely on isn't cutting it. I've won many close calls that way.

 

[bman in 2288]

Personally, I think that's one way a good Snake can play. A lot of factors go into this, like your comfortable playstyle, your opponent, your opponent's character, the stage, etc. At times, step-by-step has saved my sorry hide, while at other times, extreme pressure can keep players from reaching their desired playstyle giving you the advantage of a hesitating opponent.

Well, those were my two cents.

 

[T*H*O*R]

Quite frankly, I'd have to agree with Rusty on this one. The biggest challenge for me when I play a new person (or an old person using a new character) is adapting my playstyle and strategy to best counteract how my opponent plays. I lose the first game that I play a new person very frequently and its only after I begin to pick up on the various subtleties of their style that I begin to put up a real fight.

With regard to blaster spamming Wolves, I think that it really crucial to remember the basics and not try to do anything fancy. Stick with what you know works (e.g.: double jump grenade toss at the wolf so the blaster blows up the grenade in their face) or simply roll and spot dodge until you get the hang of it.

Without good planning, Snake is pretty mediocre. Mindgames give you the edge over all the people who play as metaknight or wolf or TL and simply rely on the same few moves to kill their opponents. You have no idea the amount of people I play online (good people too) who get tricked into running into a forward smash. Break up the tempo of the game and/or make the stage a moving, exploding obstacle course and Snake will come out on top more often than not.

 

[StoleUrCar]

Wow amongst the spam that once was, arises some relatively intelligent discussion o.O

I wholeheartedly agree on the point of the necessity to adapt. Bman was right though it really does depend on all those factors listed, which kinda goes hand-in-hand with the adjusting to your opponent theory since a new character/player will make you naturally cautious. Of course there are times to put on the pressure, but doesn't that go with the step-by-step idea? As you go along, when you see an opening, make your move and give yourself the momentum in the match.

 

[Daterian]

Yep i would agree with what people have said. My largest problem in any kind of competitive scene is that my mind shuts down from too much stuff going (starts with - this match means something and progresses to -> I have to play better than ever and then i am constantly thinking what i should do and forget the basics.), i find i put too much pressure on myself and it isn't until i have had a bad start that I start playing properly.

So the player has a huge amount to contribute to a snake win. However, Snake provides some excellent tools to get the job done. He has punishing tilts, great stage control, repeatable third jump, he is heavy and has decent if predictable recovery.

So yea, i would say it is both. You cant play a good snake without practice, he isn't a pick up and play character, he is too complicated. With a good player, Snake can maximise his substantial potential, and use his abilities to pull through.

 

[Hostility]

...how? I've seen many skilled Snake players (Pyscho ****** comes to mind), but they always seem to win by a very slim margin and even then, their opponent could have defeated them if they had simply played a little better.

I only play Snake for fun and am by no means proficient in all of the strategies and techniques that some of the better players use, but I am curious as to why people consider him to be one of the best characters.

He has great control of the stage, ridiculous range (tilts, anyone?), and powerful killing moves, but some of that seems to be worth nil when his relatively low speed is considered. Hell, a blaster-spamming Wolf (one of my friends) is hell to get past with Snake. His jumps don't give much height, and he falls like a rock, much too quickly to do many attacks in the air (yes, I know how to effectively use most of them, e.g. Full Hop Nair because SH Nair doesn't finish and lags on landing).

Forgive me if some of that wasn't thought out well, or I am overlooking something.

In summary: Why does Snake win tournaments, is it the player or the character... or both?

Well first of all, psychomidget recently hasn't been doing impressively in tournaments at all. at UCLA 6 a 193 person regional, I and at least 2 other snake players placed above him. Snake does well on the east coast primarily. West coast has a bit more diversity, norcal gets owned by a wolf and dedede player, in socal, DSF has been consistantly beaten by a wario player. So while Snake is a good character, he's not as invincible and broken as people make him out to be. He does have weaknesses, and he does take a lot of skill to use. So I would say snake wins tournaments because of both player and character. Snake is a REALLY good character, but that will only carry you so far, the player has to have that little something extra in order to win a tournament.

 

[SummerObsession]

Snake is broken. His Ftilt can knock you out, has great range, is amazingly fast, and does 21%, which is MORE than most characters FOWARD SMASH!!!! His Uptilt has amazing range and can knock out. His dash into upsmash is Fast and hard to punish. His AAA can knock you out if you don't block the last kick. He can camp well. Hes hard to kill because of his heavy weight and recovery with mines.

He may move slow but his dashing into upsmash makes up for it. And his attacks are FAST for a strong and heavy character.

 

[Crizthakidd]

brawl is like that. the battles are going to be very close. its just snake is very good at punishing racking up damage and being sneaky. hes winning because hes too good and so are the players using him

 

[gallax]

snake is not for the common person. he is for the experienced smasher. even that said. smashers still need to devote lots of time to get good at him. mastering snake will take a very long time due to his complexity. but...once mastered i doubt you will lose often(if at all). i love watching snake players at tourneys b/c their styles vary among every one of them. some use nades more, others use their c4 and mine and maniplulate their opponents into tilts and smashes. some use everything. he is such a diverse character that its no wonder he is becoming more and more popular.

 

[Naki]

-tenchars-

 

[ElectroBlooper]

Your question is whether Snake wins tournaments because of the player or the character. In other words, are Snakes dominating tournaments because their character is broken or because Snake mains just a cut above the rest?

Nothing against Snake mains, but I'm going to have to go with the broken character. When two players of equal skill play each other and one is Snake and the other is [insert pretty much anyone else], the one playing Snake is most likely going to win.

Obviously a lot is dependent on player skill. That goes without saying. But when all other factors are equal, the fact that Snake is so crazy good tips the scales in favor of anyone using him. I don't think I really need to elaborate why Snake is so broken. Tilts, projectiles, you all know the drill. Some of the other people mentioned that Snake is more "complex" or has to take a different approach to every situation where as other characters are more linear. If other characters have a more "linear" approach or play style, it is because they have fewer viable options than Snake in competitive play. Snake, on the other hand, can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants and it's a viable strategy (oversimplification, I know). It isn't so much that Snake has to adapt to every situation, it's that he is able to adapt to every situation because he's so good. Other characters don't have so many good options and instead of having to adapt to every situation, they are simply at a disadvantage in some situations.

 

[Magus-Cie]

Firstly I have to point out that while Snake's tilts do 21%, Ganon's utilt does 27% so HAH!

Although seriously, what it comes down to is that Snake isn't particularly adaptable to any situation, it is that he really is able to get any character to play his game. Long range or short range, Snake can really compete. I have beaten some fairly good Snakes with Ganondorf, but against others I have been completely wrecked.

The name of the game is field control. The more you get them to play like you want them to, the better.