Snake Recovery

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Its still pretty bad. And that Crouch attack is completely worthless lol Maybe he'll see a proper upgrade eventually.

 

[GHNeko]

I have to disagree. It's not bad at all. It's actually pretty flexible with the shortened grenade timer and the lack of grabbing out of up B shenanigans.

Overall, even with the meleefied recoveries across the board, I feel like his recovery is decent.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Okay, I have not seen 2.5 due to lack of wii at the moment. Provided they didn't change it much from 2.0/2.1, then I think its still pretty bad. He is the sort of recovery character that will continually keep coming back from any part of the stage. Although, I feel he is a super easy character to be edge guarded.

 

[GHNeko]

Well, considering the nade's angle on explosion sends him toward the stage with the right DI, he can tech easily, and is harder to gimp even when intercepted as a result. That's how I see it.

It's not as easy to stop like the C4 is. It's just that the C4 gives a lot more freedom in timing provide you set it up fast enough.

 

[cannedbread]

crouch tilt resets and sets up for high% shenanigans what are you saying

but snakes recovery isn't very flexible i'll agree. it could be worse though.

i feel recovering high can be a good option against like marth or sheik. those two **** on his recovery i swear.

 

[Plum]

His Up B is hella easy to intercept when you just use it without thought, but you can easily just recover from points that are hard to intercept, proper DI will go a long way with making sure you can recover in safer positions. If you recover from high up its pretty easy to keep yourself on the trip down to stage with aerials/grenades/C4. Grenade recovery in addition to C4 recovery gives him some other options if his Up B isn't enough on its own.

 

[GHNeko]

crouch tilt resets and sets up for high% shenanigans what are you saying

but snakes recovery isn't very flexible i'll agree. it could be worse though.

i feel recovering high can be a good option against like marth or sheik. those two **** on his recovery i swear.

what?

it's reasonably flexiable.

and recovering low is legit too lol.

 

[cannedbread]

i'm saying it's not flexible as in you'll always just be upbing back on every time

you can mix up how you upb with nades and c4s but that's all you'll be doing for the most part

it's like sheiks sort of, she pretty much has to look for a clean upb/ad/jump on every time and hope you don't get that wash rinse repeat edgeguard, but at least snake has bombs so it's less bad

recovering low is good like all the time though i just like recovering high with marth because he can't jump and hit you from too far, white boy got no hops

 

[GHNeko]

Well if you aim it right, when you tech off the stage with nade recovery, i know you can just AD back onto stage haha.

 

[KOkingpin]

Snake's recovery is highly gimpable against characters with Large disjointed hitboxes (Ike, DDD). So what you do is Recover high and drop c4 below you. You can use this to dodge back to the stage since it is snake's fastest aerial maneuver (if you didnt notice snake cant dodge out of his up-b so you have to do something quick to break the hold on cypher). If you find yourself low then your only option is to pull a grenade and hop they hit it and you thus blow you up and stopping their knockback for the grenade's knockback.

 

[GHNeko]

You can also b-reversal your nade, c4, and nikita to alter your momentum.

 

[KOkingpin]

You can also b-reversal your nade, c4, and nikita to alter your momentum.

yeah with C4 being your best bet due to it being so dang quick.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Despite all these options being above the opponent is still bad. Hoping for trades to recover with nades is not always beneficial since you take near double damage on such a trade than the opponent. Even then at higher percents than opponent its still in their favor as they reclaim stage control before you can. Looking for damaging yourself to avoid being killed is reminiscent of pichu as well.

I still think its bad. But, probably one of the most fun though with how many options he can attempt despite how bad many of them are.

 

[KOkingpin]

Despite all these options being above the opponent is still bad. Hoping for trades to recover with nades is not always beneficial since you take near double damage on such a trade than the opponent. Even then at higher percents than opponent its still in their favor as they reclaim stage control before you can. Looking for damaging yourself to avoid being killed is reminiscent of pichu as well.

you do what you have to do to get back on stage. Snake is a life tank. His normal stocks don't end until 150-180% if you DI correctly and blow your self up sometimes. There are going to be times to where you have to avoid them from above and snakes options are very limited at this point. At high percentages eating a grenade will save you from an aerial that would normally kill you. its like Link's bombs but they come out a heck of a lot quicker.

 

[Professor Pro]

To the original post, what are you talking about the crouch attack being worthless....it is VERY good, I think you are struggling to find the applications of it.

Its a good frame trap a low percents, which gets you a free grab (and Snake's grab are important) and at killing percent (like 130%) it combos into an U-Tilt.

His recovery isn't the best recovery, but it's VERY justified when you look at his other attributes such as killing ability and stage control

 

[JTsm]

Isn't recovery in this game suppose to be bad anyways? lol

Snake's Down tilt pops up opponents into up airs. It's not totally useless. lol

 

[GHNeko]

Recovery in this game is supposed to be worse than Brawl, but not just out right bad. Which it isnt. Overall recoveries are far better than Melee.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Well, again, there are recoveries which vary. You could be like a Samus who or Jiggs who will recovery again and again without fail and will not die easily or easy to hit.

Or you could be like a spacie in UpB which shouldn't typically mean death. Snake just reminds me of that spaciie in UpB.

And while the shank attack puts people into the air, it reminds me much of Mario's Dtilt where it does hardly anything at all and you get punished in the ending lag.

 

[Scythe]

You should always recover high with snake if you are facing someone competent. If you are too low at the start then c4 yourself higher. At the apex of you up-b you should fake downb since that will allow to airdodge afterwards. Obviously don't forget about b-reverals while falling down.

 

[KOkingpin]

Well, again, there are recoveries which vary. You could be like a Samus who or Jiggs who will recovery again and again without fail and will not die easily or easy to hit.

Or you could be like a spacie in UpB which shouldn't typically mean death. Snake just reminds me of that spaciie in UpB.

And while the shank attack puts people into the air, it reminds me much of Mario's Dtilt where it does hardly anything at all and you get punished in the ending lag.

His recovery (Up-B) is far superior to spacies. Even comparing those two recoveries is just plain wrong. The fact that he can act out of his recovery is essential to his survival. B Reversals make snake live forever. That and good DI.

 

[Professor Pro]

You should always recover high with snake if you are facing someone competent. If you are too low at the start then c4 yourself higher. At the apex of you up-b you should fake downb since that will allow to airdodge afterwards. Obviously don't forget about b-reverals while falling down.

You should never 'always' do anything unless it's 100% guaranteed.
There's plenty of situation where sweetspotting the edge is the best option and free when you throw grenades at them so they can't edgeguard you or have a C4 attached to them.

 

[SpiderMad]

Do ports still affect who gets exploded in a grab?

 

[GHNeko]

Yes. yes it does.

 

[Jolteon]

snake's knife leads into grab, at least on mid-weights, and snake's grab game is really good.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I've never really used the knife that much. I troll friends with the knife to utilt. But I haven't tried incorporating it into my usual game. I have to play so quick vs my region. There's really never an opportunity where I have an option worse than knife.

 

[Jonny Westside]

I've never really used the knife that much. I troll friends with the knife to utilt. But I haven't tried incorporating it into my usual game. I have to play so quick vs my region. There's really never an opportunity where I have an option worse than knife.

Speaking of Utilt, anyone else miss Brawl Snake's Utilt? I'd personally love to have that back in P:M with a proper hitbox of course lol van damme upward kick >> uppercut :O

 

[SpiderMad]

Speaking of Utilt, anyone else miss Brawl Snake's Utilt? I'd personally love to have that back in P:M with a proper hitbox of course lol van damme upward kick >> uppercut :O

His third jab string is a Van Damme kick though? I haven't seen anything that looks similar to his vBrawl up-tilt

I think it would take a lot of changes to look realistic animation wise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDWKpP1U1ok

 

[Jonny Westside]

His third jab string is a Van Damme kick though? I haven't seen anything that looks similar to his vBrawl up-tilt

I think it would take a lot of changes to look realistic animation wise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDWKpP1U1ok

Nah that's some Patrick Swayze (RIP) Roadhouse **** right there, the jab kick. I made the Van Damme joke because that guy is super flexible and he does some pretty gnarly kicks. Don't take it seriously. Also, the only thing that was wrong with the old Utilt was that ridiculous hitbox. A simple edit would make it more "realistic".

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Speaking of Utilt, anyone else miss Brawl Snake's Utilt? I'd personally love to have that back in P:M with a proper hitbox of course lol van damme upward kick >> uppercut :O

I want the hit box, but I love the uppercut

And there was actually like a single frame in brawl in which snakes foot extended to the length at where it hits

 

[G13_Flux]

uppercut is fairly similar to his vbrawl uptilt. it covers a lot in front of him and a lot above him. it just doesnt have that absolutely obnoxious range in front of it. I mean come on, u have to admit that was a little bit broken and kind of competitive overkill. its like metaknight with his transcendent priority on like every attack. sure its good, but its competitively bland, and doesnt add anything interesting to the game.

but as far as his recovery goes, snake is a very defensive character (as you mains should know). he isnt going to overwhelm anybody with crazy comboes and shield pressure, but instead hes going to pressure by manipulating space and keeping in a position where he can react to his opponent and use his big hitboxes and quick attacks to cover himself. a character of this playstyle is very good at keeping the opponent off of him and relieving existing pressure. Likewise, as a snake, if ur being put offstage a lot, ur doing it wrong. sure this applies to every character, but even more so for snake due to his tactics and attributes. in the hands of a good player, it is extremely hard to take positional advantage over snake, and therefore knock him off the stage. now this doesnt really help his recovery, but it cuts his losses by focusing his game away from safe recovery. He should be put into gimp position far less than most other characters, and that means that he is hurt less overall the few times he does get gimped. in other words, the keyword here is prevention, not redemption. he is going to prevent getting forced into positional disadvantage, instead of focusing on trying to recover that advantage when he does get forced.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

Okay, I have not seen 2.5 due to lack of wii at the moment.

you made this thread without even having played the game? hmmm

 

[G13_Flux]

while were on the topic of 2.5, what changes did snake get in 2.5? i know his nair now has 3 hits instead of 4 (i like this one a lot, the fourth hit never had any use as far as i could tell). and i know his grenades got an asthetic polish up. i havent noticed anything else jarring however.

 

[Jonny Westside]

while were on the topic of 2.5, what changes did snake get in 2.5? i know his nair now has 3 hits instead of 4 (i like this one a lot, the fourth hit never had any use as far as i could tell). and i know his grenades got an asthetic polish up. i havent noticed anything else jarring however.

Snake has had a 3 kick Nair since Demo 1 lololol you're really late, man. I asked about a complete changelist for 2.5 snake about 2 weeks ago from standardtoaster and he's yet to deliver. Please be patient.

 

[G13_Flux]

ah i see.. well i just noticed it aha. ive only played snakes before 2.5, it wasnt till the release came out that i started tooling around with him. i guess yall can disregard that comment then. anyways i know theyll eventually come out with a list, but i was just wondering if anyone noticed anything that we can discuss without having to consult PMBR or official lists.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

uppercut is fairly similar to his vbrawl uptilt. it covers a lot in front of him and a lot above him. it just doesnt have that absolutely obnoxious range in front of it. I mean come on, u have to admit that was a little bit broken and kind of competitive overkill. its like metaknight with his transcendent priority on like every attack. sure its good, but its competitively bland, and doesnt add anything interesting to the game.

but as far as his recovery goes, snake is a very defensive character (as you mains should know). he isnt going to overwhelm anybody with crazy comboes and shield pressure, but instead hes going to pressure by manipulating space and keeping in a position where he can react to his opponent and use his big hitboxes and quick attacks to cover himself. a character of this playstyle is very good at keeping the opponent off of him and relieving existing pressure. Likewise, as a snake, if ur being put offstage a lot, ur doing it wrong. sure this applies to every character, but even more so for snake due to his tactics and attributes. in the hands of a good player, it is extremely hard to take positional advantage over snake, and therefore knock him off the stage. now this doesnt really help his recovery, but it cuts his losses by focusing his game away from safe recovery. He should be put into gimp position far less than most other characters, and that means that he is hurt less overall the few times he does get gimped. in other words, the keyword here is prevention, not redemption. he is going to prevent getting forced into positional disadvantage, instead of focusing on trying to recover that advantage when he does get forced.

I disagreed with all of this.

 

[Professor Pro]

Be patient guys, we will be releasing a Change List for all of the v2.5 cast soon

Anymore vids of people to contribute to the discussion.

 

[G13_Flux]

really. so u disgree with snakes use of space and stage control? what are u saying that you are going to combo and pressure people like u would if u were a space animal? tell me how you play snake then.

 

[SinisterB]

Don't forget using an Aerial out of UpB gives you the option to AD afterwards.

+1 for crawl tilt being amazing

 

[G13_Flux]

i can see that being useful for following juggles that result from up b OOS. almost like a falco would from shine, except you WL it. it would also help in horrizontal recovery regards, but i doubt it would help vertically just cuz of the ending lag from the aerial u must perform.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

really. so u disgree with snakes use of space and stage control? what are u saying that you are going to combo and pressure people like u would if u were a space animal? tell me how you play snake then.

I play with a proactive mindset of controlling the stage aggressively. You can't not approach and take advantage of all of snakes moves. You have to create the situation by forcing(or baiting) for it. Sure, snake controls his space. Good priority, insane grab range, good UpB, all the jazz. But if you stick to your little space, when someone gets in, your defensive options shrink and wam bam thank you ma'am, you're getting gimped, spiked, or shined.

Snake was built to be the little commando he is in PM. This isn't brawl, you don't live to 200% without DI, or kill at 90 with up tilt. Snake is faster, one grenade that blows up quicker, mines that kill and a super buffed C4. This character is designed to make quick reactions aggressively before defensively. His defensive options are great yeah. But do you wanna sit in your little bubble doin minimal damage, itty bitty combos, and camping for your stage, or do you wanna BLOW @!$& UP!?!?



I'd rather blow @!$& up.