Snake isnt to good at recovery.

[Alus]

I know most peoples reaction to this... a palm to the face... but try to listen because their are a lot of disadvantages that i have experienced...

1.its somewhat hard to control...making it easy to get caught under some ledge and let you fall to your death.

2.its also somewhat too predictable(such a lovely word) and slow making it easy to get spiked

and people have told me that his recovery is the best...

i want you to correct them or correct me...



that is all...

 

[acv]

its not hard to control.if you are good you will never get caught under a ledge.

it doesnt matter if its predictable.learn to space.

 

[Glick]

C4 recovery.

 

[Union of Darkness]

His recovery is very good. It just yells "PLEASE METEOR SMASH ME" is all.

 

[Solaris1110]

If he gets under the ledge, he can C4 himself, and tech the stage if his percent is high.

 

[Tenthousand]

If he gets under the ledge, he can C4 himself, and tech the stage if his percent is high.

I find that many stages are just too low for this, or in many cases(FD) you will be close to the wall of the stage, and accidentally stick it to the wall instead of dropping it.


Also, I find it extremely difficult to not die/take at least 60-70% from one chaingrab from a good falco, because generally I end up being chained to the end of the stage and spiked, and having to literally bup away from the stage to avoid eating another spike, and then after bupping away having to bomb jump and bup towards it, too high to be spiked. Is there a better way to avoid eating a spike from a good falco player(aside from not getting grabbed)?

 

[Cat Fight]

I know most peoples reaction to this... a palm to the face...

1.its somewhat hard to control...making it easy to get caught under some ledge and let you fall to your death.

2.its also somewhat too predictable(such a lovely word) and slow making it easy to get spiked

and people have told me that his recovery is the best...

i want you to correct them or correct me...



that is all...

*facepalm*

 

[~Peachy~]

I agree with the OP. Snake's recovery isn't the worst, but it certainly isn't the best.

A) It's easily gimpable. Just Grab+ do nothing+ wait for release= watch Snake either fall or damage himself. Either way, it benefits the Snake's opponent.

B) It leaves Snake very vulnerable when recovering from a stage. When using Peach, I just float up to them and fair him. If Peach can do this, what more would metaknight do to a recovering snake? 20 + damage?

C) And even some good snakes mess up and get caught under a ledge. ( usually in final destination). Although, this can be true about many recoveries, snake's is one of the most obvious to point out.

There's my two cents.

 

[Alus]

*facepalm*

lacks quite the bit of reson... i might even consider it a spam!

 

[SwastikaPyle]

its not hard to control.if you are good you will never get caught under a ledge.

it doesnt matter if its predictable.learn to space.

You need to understand that some moves are built so that they hit you under the ledge, and you are FORCED to recover from down there. Ever been the victim of Zelda's d-smash?

Edit: I think you meant under a 'stage', my bad.

 

[SummerObsession]

Are you recovering correctly? As in using Up+B at the peak of your jump. This will prevent you from dipping before recovering and give you more distance. Recover away from the ledge and If used correctly you won't get spike as you'll be too far away for them to reach you. His recovery is still good compared to other heavy's out there, like wolf, DK, and bowser.

 

[CouRt]

i think snakes recovery is great and i love it <3

 

[Alus]

Are you recovering correctly? As in using Up+B at the peak of your jump. This will prevent you from dipping before recovering and give you more distance. Recover away from the ledge and If used correctly you won't get spike as you'll be too far away for them to reach you. His recovery is still good compared to other heavy's out there, like wolf, DK, and bowser.

yeah...that just might be the problem...

 

[Cat Fight]

lacks quite the bit of reson... i might even consider it a spam!

Well, in that case, next time use the search option to find an appropriate thread concerning the discussion of Snake's recovery.

This thread topic has been posted enough times already.

We don't need another, thanks. ^__^

 

[Alus]

Well, in that case, next time use the search option to find an appropriate thread concerning the discussion of Snake's recovery.

This thread topic has been posted enough times already.

We don't need another, thanks. ^__^

but the thread wont be updated... and considering the rate that people CONSTANTLY find new things having new threads weeds out the things that dont help very quickly with no work...

no one also wants to have a thread with infinite pages anyway...especially when half of it gets spamed.... it will be nearly impossible to find what your looking for....



anyway... BACK TO TOPIC!!

 

[Nintendevil]

I agree with the OP. Snake's recovery isn't the worst, but it certainly isn't the best.

A) It's easily gimpable. Just Grab+ do nothing+ wait for release= watch Snake either fall or damage himself. Either way, it benefits the Snake's opponent.

B) It leaves Snake very vulnerable when recovering from a stage. When using Peach, I just float up to them and fair him. If Peach can do this, what more would metaknight do to a recovering snake? 20 + damage?

C) And even some good snakes mess up and get caught under a ledge. ( usually in final destination). Although, this can be true about many recoveries, snake's is one of the most obvious to point out.

There's my two cents.

A. Down b will make him explode and he can reuse it.

B. It's got freaken super armor >_____> and a good snake will air dodge off it early.

C. how is it obvious? The only downside here is that it can be hard to C4 here, that's it, but all charecters can get gimped here. (just that some like rob and pit can make it back out before they run out.

 

[AlAxe]

If you are good you will never get caught under the edge. Also its not hard to avoid meteor smashs by recovering as high as possible and airdodging off the cypher.

 

[gehaga]

Snakes recovery is not the nor the best, this is agreed opon, but its easy not to get spiked, just air dodge to let go of the cypher so the cypher hits the foe then just C4 tech back to the stage. I've pretty much mastered it.

 

[Alus]

Snakes recovery is not the nor the best, this is agreed opon, but its easy not to get spiked, just air dodge to let go of the cypher so the cypher hits the foe then just C4 tech back to the stage. I've pretty much mastered it.

woah woah wait... you can airdodge while using it?

 

[AlAxe]

Yea. It makes you let go but yes. That's why it's a good recovery. You can even attack directly off it too.

 

[Alus]

well thats helpful to know...

also is there a way to make snakes recovory increase speed movement to the horizantallty? (you know what i mean?)

ps... bad spelling i know...

 

[~Peachy~]

A. Down b will make him explode and he can reuse it.

B. It's got freaken super armor >_____> and a good snake will air dodge off it early.

C. how is it obvious? The only downside here is that it can be hard to C4 here, that's it, but all charecters can get gimped here. (just that some like rob and pit can make it back out before they run out.

Super Armor or not, some moves WILL knock Snake out of it. ( I believe its 15% or more damage in one attack and hitbox). Peach's Fair Knocks him out of his Up Special. So that's proof enough.

And who the heck cares if he can air dodge out of it? You're screwed if you're trying to recover horizontally. If snake air dodges out his Recovery because an opponent attempts to edge guard him, What happens if they go after him again? Hiis only choices are to:

Air dodge again which will either be punished with another attack, or he falls to his Death. Of course, he can C4 himself up, but in the end it benefits Snake's opponent. Either he dies, damages himself, or punished by the opponent. His recovery is one of the most easily punished.

Can you honestly tell me that Snake has good Horizontal recovery? If so, please slap yourself. Snake's recovery is harder to control from underneath a stage ( it goes up, but it's difficult to move left and right) and he will either fall to his death or be forced to use his C4 because the Up Special Recovery either ran out, or it was hard to control it correctly. Many character's have better horizontal recovery so its harder for them to be gimped in this manner.

So anyway, Snake's Up Special alone can fail as a recovery, but luckily his C4 can be used to compensate for this. I'll give him credit for that. But both of them require Snake to take a nice amount of damage so it benefits the opponent either way. ( Up Special can leave Snake Vulnerable and even if he Air dodges, he can still be edge guarded. While the C4 makes Snake take Damage in exchange for the boost) You can respond by saying " getting an opponent off the stage ( but not dieing) always benefits the other player" but this more so applies to Snake, because his recovery options leave him much more vulnerable then the rest of the cast. Snake's recovery can be one of his worst weakness's.

There we go! Hopefully that mouthful of information will shut you up Nintendevil.

And if that doesn't, here have some cookies! ^__^ *hands cookies to Nintendevil*

 

[Crizthakidd]

lmao if you didint know u can airdodge out of it no wonder you think its bad.

i too think its bad just because its to easy to gimp or spike. and good players knock u in a way where u either miss the ledge or get grabbed. and blowing a c4 after a grab release is werid. not only do u take like 17% youll be back to the same position u dont want to be. ur up b.

the way to solve this is basically be creative about getting back on the stage and learn now not to get killed by the lip

 

[Alus]

lmao if you didint know u can airdodge out of it no wonder you think its bad.

i too think its bad just because its to easy to gimp or spike. and good players knock u in a way where u either miss the ledge or get grabbed. and blowing a c4 after a grab release is werid. not only do u take like 17% youll be back to the same position u dont want to be. ur up b.

the way to solve this is basically be creative about getting back on the stage and learn now not to get killed by the lip

its not as easy as it sounds...even with air dodge...

 

[~Peachy~]

^ What this person said!

 

[DMG]

There's also the issue with characters that juggle/pressure from below well (Wario, G&W, MK, Etc.). Even if Snake recovers high and fast or even if he airdodges, he is still prone to getting hit while falling anyways.

That seems to be the worst part about it to me, the fact that he is pretty vulnerable to characters that can chase well in the air during and after his recovery. I can live with the spiking weakness; most characters have no real chance at recovering anyways after a spike if they are forced to just use Upb.

Other than that, his recovery is definitely better than most characters and probably somewhere in the Top 10 or 8 or something like that.

 

[Cat Fight]

Super Armor or not, some moves WILL knock Snake out of it. ( I believe its 15% or more damage in one attack and hitbox). Peach's Fair Knocks him out of his Up Special. So that's proof enough.

And who the heck cares if he can air dodge out of it? You're screwed if you're trying to recover horizontally. If snake air dodges out his Recovery because an opponent attempts to edge guard him, What happens if they go after him again? Hiis only choices are to:

Air dodge again which will either be punished with another attack, or he falls to his Death. Of course, he can C4 himself up, but in the end it benefits Snake's opponent. Either he dies, damages himself, or punished by the opponent. His recovery is one of the most easily punished.

Can you honestly tell me that Snake has good Horizontal recovery? If so, please slap yourself. Snake's recovery is harder to control from underneath a stage ( it goes up, but it's difficult to move left and right) and he will either fall to his death or be forced to use his C4 because the Up Special Recovery either ran out, or it was hard to control it correctly. Many character's have better horizontal recovery so its harder for them to be gimped in this manner.

So anyway, Snake's Up Special alone can fail as a recovery, but luckily his C4 can be used to compensate for this. I'll give him credit for that. But both of them require Snake to take a nice amount of damage so it benefits the opponent either way. ( Up Special can leave Snake Vulnerable and even if he Air dodges, he can still be edge guarded. While the C4 makes Snake take Damage in exchange for the boost) You can respond by saying " getting an opponent off the stage ( but not dieing) always benefits the other player" but this more so applies to Snake, because his recovery options leave him much more vulnerable then the rest of the cast. Snake's recovery can be one of his worst weakness's.

There we go! Hopefully that mouthful of information will shut you up Nintendevil.

And if that doesn't, here have some cookies! ^__^ *hands cookies to Nintendevil*

Of course this in theory, correct? Because you do realize that a smart Snake player does not wait to recover from below the stage/near the edge with the Cypher, rather, UpBs immediately after being hit off the stage so that they may recover horizontally out of the opponent's range.

Coming down to the stage you should be fast falling out of the Cypher and a single air dodge if necessary. That way yr opponent has less time to react in the air, and less time to return to the ground to punish his recovery.

Snake's Cypher does not "fail" as a recovery - haha.

The fact that you make statements like "who the heck cares if you can airdodge out of it?" makes it painfully obvious that you simply underestimate the power of being able to airdodge out of a recovery...

All of this you had stated is pen and paper. You make it seem like everytime Snake Cyphers that you are going to be punished for it, and Snake is not put at that large of a disadvantage for using C4 recovery to get back on the stage.

Perhaps you are unaware, but Ftilt deals 18-21%. A few tilts will easily put things even percentage wise, which usually is in Snake's favor. ^___^

Alas, it is not the best recovery since there are characters like Metaknight and ROB who can take advantage of the first frames of the Cypher to KO him off the stage, but it is DEFINITELY not as bad as you are making it out to be - sorry.

 

[~Peachy~]

Of course this in theory, correct? Because you do realize that a smart Snake player does not wait to recover from below the stage/near the edge with the Cypher, rather, UpBs immediately after being hit off the stage so that they may recover horizontally out of the opponent's range.

Coming down to the stage you should be fast falling out of the Cypher and a single air dodge if necessary. That way yr opponent has less time to react in the air, and less time to return to the ground to punish his recovery.

Snake's Cypher does not "fail" as a recovery - haha.

The fact that you make statements like "who the heck cares if you can airdodge out of it?" makes it painfully obvious that you simply underestimate the power of being able to airdodge out of a recovery...

All of this you had stated is pen and paper. You make it seem like everytime Snake Cyphers that you are going to be punished for it, and Snake is not put at that large of a disadvantage for using C4 recovery to get back on the stage.

Perhaps you are unaware, but Ftilt deals 18-21%. A few tilts will easily put things even percentage wise, which usually is in Snake's favor. ^___^

Alas, it is not the best recovery since there are characters like Metaknight and ROB who can take advantage of the first frames of the Cypher to KO him off the stage, but it is DEFINITELY not as bad as you are making it out to be - sorry.

<_< Unnnghh.... this is getting annoying......

Okay, calling Snake's Cypher recovery "fail" may have been a stretch too far. If you want to see my real opinion on it, refer to one of my other posts. " It's not the worst, but's its not the best either" or something like that.

And yes It's quite obvious to me that Snake players use the Cypher recover immediately( and not wait for being close to the edge) when they are hit off the stage. But that does not negate the fact that YES, there are situations that will put Snake under a stage. Deal with it. Most, if not all character's deal with the fact that they can be stage spiked, meteor smashed, etc. Snake is no exception, and being that some of the most commonly chosen character's in the game can do those things, there should be no reason to take those situations lightly. And those methods can make Snake go below Stage height, I hope you aren't assuming that a Snake will never be put into that situation.


And I have played Snake's before so I can see the potential of Snake "Air dodging to get of of the way." But the fact of the matter is, there are character's that can chase other character's in the air quite easily. And again, Snake is no exception. I really hope you don't need examples of these kinds of characters because they are quite overused as well.

And maybe the C4 Recovery doesn't put Snake at a large disadvantage, but you can't say that Snake using his C4 to get back onto the stage doesn't benefit his opponent either. Damage is Damage. The Snake user may have taken the better of the trade off because Damage>Death, but every piece of damage counts in a fighting game so Snake taking damage brings the opponent one step closer to Koing him. Or do you need an explanation on how higher damage means a higher probability of being Koed? ^__^

--Few minutes after rereading rant--


Wow..... Okay..... enough of this debate. I for one, am tired of explaining my opinion THREE TIMES. Let's all agree that Snake's recovery is not BAD, but you can't honestly say its GREAT either.

I'm done with debating with this topic. It actually seems pointless now. People have different opinion's on Snake's recovery, so be it. And thank you for putting up an argument Cat Fight..


*hands cookies to Cat Fight* Take that as a token of a good argument on both parts. ^__^ ( At least... a good argument in my opinion.)

 

[L__]

Wow, I just read like 10 posts which were all restatements of previous posts that were completely unnecessary.

C4 recovery.

then someone restates it...

If he gets under the ledge, he can C4 himself, and tech the stage if his percent is high.

If you are good you will never get caught under the edge. Also its not hard to avoid meteor smash by recovering as high as possible and airdodging off the cypher.

Snakes recovery is not the nor the best, this is agreed opon, but its easy not to get spiked, just air dodge to let go of the cypher so the cypher hits the foe then just C4 tech back to the stage. I've pretty much mastered it.

Yea. It makes you let go but yes. That's why it's a good recovery. You can even attack directly off it too.

i too think its bad just because its to easy to gimp or spike.

Hey kids! Let's count the number of times idiotic ideas were restated!!

C4 Recovery! Count with me! ONE!!! TWO!! THREE!!

YOU CAN AIRDODGE AND ATTACK OUT OF IT!! ;D ONE!! TWO!! THREE..

My point is; people: please pay attention to the posts prior to your own. I'm rather tired reading the same ideas several times in other threads as well as this one.

 

[PsychopathicEmus]

hear hear! it's like a drunk conversation! never goes anywhere!

 

[L__]

Wow, my post in a nutshell, you suck.

 

[~Peachy~]

^Wow.... you guys just reinforced my post even further! Kudos to you!

I'd give you cookies but I ran out.

 

[samdaballer]

snakes recovery by itself is ok, but is one of the most gimpable in the game. there was research done on why some moves hit snake out of his cypher and if i remember correctly any attack that does more than 10% in a frame will knock snake out. That's why mk's fair dair or uair won't knock him out, but up b and nair do

 

[Cat Fight]

<_< Unnnghh.... this is getting annoying......

Okay, calling Snake's Cypher recovery "fail" may have been a stretch too far. If you want to see my real opinion on it, refer to one of my other posts. " It's not the worst, but's its not the best either" or something like that.

And yes It's quite obvious to me that Snake players use the Cypher recover immediately( and not wait for being close to the edge) when they are hit off the stage. But that does not negate the fact that YES, there are situations that will put Snake under a stage. Deal with it. Most, if not all character's deal with the fact that they can be stage spiked, meteor smashed, etc. Snake is no exception, and being that some of the most commonly chosen character's in the game can do those things, there should be no reason to take those situations lightly. And those methods can make Snake go below Stage height, I hope you aren't assuming that a Snake will never be put into that situation.


And I have played Snake's before so I can see the potential of Snake "Air dodging to get of of the way." But the fact of the matter is, there are character's that can chase other character's in the air quite easily. And again, Snake is no exception. I really hope you don't need examples of these kinds of characters because they are quite overused as well.

And maybe the C4 Recovery doesn't put Snake at a large disadvantage, but you can't say that Snake using his C4 to get back onto the stage doesn't benefit his opponent either. Damage is Damage. The Snake user may have taken the better of the trade off because Damage>Death, but every piece of damage counts in a fighting game so Snake taking damage brings the opponent one step closer to Koing him. Or do you need an explanation on how higher damage means a higher probability of being Koed? ^__^

--Few minutes after rereading rant--


Wow..... Okay..... enough of this debate. I for one, am tired of explaining my opinion THREE TIMES. Let's all agree that Snake's recovery is not BAD, but you can't honestly say its GREAT either.

I'm done with debating with this topic. It actually seems pointless now. People have different opinion's on Snake's recovery, so be it. And thank you for putting up an argument Cat Fight..


*hands cookies to Cat Fight* Take that as a token of a good argument on both parts. ^__^ ( At least... a good argument in my opinion.)

This explains why I facepalmed at the beginning of the discussion, because it would eventually turn into a bunch of reiterations of the same thing.

And wadya know? It's the same thing over and over and over. Wow!

Alas, I'm not bothering with this topic anymore either. @___@

 

[Goldkirby]

Who the hell recovers from below the stage with snake?

 

[MetallicFalcon]

Snakes recovery is very good, if you ask me its the best in the game cause. his recovery can be used over and over again. alot of people think that they are doomed when they get caught under the ledge of FD but, just us his down b attack and then blow it up immediatly. then it will hit himself allowing another save attempt, its really awsome unless u have a crapload of damage.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Snake's recovery is one of those things I find that several people overrate.

Snake's recovery is ONLY good in terms of distance.

It isn't exactly bad in the grand scheme of things, but has the most severe blind spots of all recoveries, which I believe most of you should understand. However, to sum it up, Snake cannot autograb the ledge, the Cypher moves fairly slowly, and while Snake can cancel the Cypher, his air game is horrible usually forcing Snake to air dodge to the stage (and mind you, many times, air dodges = setups for being hit even in Brawl). And there are a lot of characters that can easily set Snake up into a blind spot, which usually means chaingrabbing Snake off the stage or using a throw that keeps him really low, which of course makes him a sitting duck for anything, and spikes or Cypher grabs are probably the most popular options from there. This makes up Snake's 6 or so BAD matchups, and maybe a few more not so good matchups.

Honestly, I see Snake's recovery as one of his biggest downfalls aka a legit weakness. I see it this way because his recovery is actually THE WORST IN THE GAME in specific matchups. DDD, Falco, Pikachu, ROB, and Wolf are pretty lousy matchups for Snake, and mostly its because these characters can pretty much destroy his recovery like they can to no other character.

Even in the fairly unlikely event Snake survives a spike, he will have to use C4 to recover, which will pack on a ton more damage or at higher percents kill him, and this doesn't guarantee he won't be intercepted again depending on how he DIs.

Oh btw, it only takes an attack that does more than 7% in one blow to hit Snake off the Cypher (fractions of a percent count. An attack that does exactly 7% will not work. One that does 7.1% will).

 

[napZzz]

snakes recovery can leave him open for spikes or gettin juggled (robs fair) :{

but he can also c4 recover ;P

basically above average i'd say, at least he can always come back with no interference.

 

[MetallicFalcon]

snakes recovery can leave him open for spikes or gettin juggled (robs fair) :{

but he can also c4 recover ;P

basically above average i'd say, at least he can always come back with no interference.

its not that easy for him to get juggled cause, most of the time he cant even be hit off of the glider. and if he's close enough to the stage he can hit the opponent with a bair before they hit him.

 

[napZzz]

Its not too hard to hit snake off his cypher. I cant remember where but there was a list explaining what knocks him off somewhere in here.....

I could probably put out a list just from exp. :/