Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[SaturnFrost]

Put Meta Knight, Peach, Yoshi, and Rosalina in S-tier. There's no reason for them to be anything less, they are monsters.

Link's not that great I've used him a bunch against players, he's C-tier at best. Same with Jiggs, (they might be better but they're still terrible overall.)

Bowser has the best kill setups, but Charizard can deal with most matchups better, putting him above Bowser IMO. DeDeDe is more vulnerable than ever and doesn't really gain anything new combo-wise, dropping him down to C or worse.

Thanks for the feedback...^_^

 

[SAHunterMech]

Pretty sure he's talking about legit Heavy Gravity, not equipment.

I know what he meant, I was merely stating what I can do versus what I can't. I can't give you Heavy Grav online, but I can give you Anchor Jump.

The difference between Anchor Jump and Heavy Gravity is that Anchor Jump doesn't screw with momentum values, which means that all the up-b moves that are 'crippled' in Heavy Gravity (Rush Coil, Super Duck Jump, etc.) function normally. It's potentially beneficial, but not everyone has a hacked 3Ds. Granted, I'm betting not everyone will be able to hack their Wii U either...

It might be possible for both users to have the universal gravity boosted in vanilla play and carry that over to online, iunno.

If such a thing is indeed possible, we could do so much more than just change the gravity... We could really refine SLHG as a whole beyond the limits of reward badges and lousy trade-offs. We wouldn't have to settle.

 

[Muro]

The difference between anchor jump and heavy gravity is that anchor jump cuts jump height way too much. So instead of 3 less than ideal recoveries, everyone plays worse. Regardless, it's not standard so it doesn't matter anyway.

On the other topic I doubt they changed server code to patch out heavy gravity. Remember you can equip any number of different equipment pieces with wild effects, so the checks have to be somewhat lenient. The game probably only checks to see if both consoles loaded the same settings, or if the output of one of them matches the other, which is probably why the game crashed when one of the players didn't load heavy smash correctly, but only when they interacted.

Now it would be a matter of loading the correct settings on both consoles when jumping into the game so that both expect heavy gravity to be on. The glitch was probably something along those lines, they probably forgot to check what settings the console was loading and just loaded whatever was there previously (which we put there before going online). If there was a way to force it through modding it should work.....I think lol

 

[SAHunterMech]

Shouldn't the jump heights from Heavy Gravity and Anchor Jump be the same? If not, doesn't that mean that Anchor Jump is a greater increase to gravity?

 

[cerealkiller]

Even if that was doable, wouldn't Nintendo patch it all in a heartbeat though?

 

[ZADD]

Iv all but given up on the whole Online Special Smash thing. I think removing it and not adding an alternative was very poor game design.

The only hope for SLHG is what Melee has, and what PM had for a while... Large, dedicated, local communities to propel the meta forward. Its gonna take whole communities trying this out for it to catch on, i know thats how its somewhat working in CO.

Hopefully as Sm4sh dies down, and Melee continues, SLHG will get more attention by the Melee community.

As it is now, the biggest opponent to SLHG is the toxicity of the Sm4sh community; Its very frustrating dealing with this community's elitism. All it would take is a single high-ranking person telling the whole story about SLHG for people to take it seriously, and for it to catch on.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I think you're giving the Melee community a bit too much credit there. Smash 4's can be toxic, but so can Melee's. I know people irl that dislike PM simply because it isn't Melee (and shocker: they complain about Fox nerfs in that game).

It'll be a while before Smash 4 dies down in any meaningful way, if it does at all, considering all the Brawl players moved onto that game and it has large mass appeal. When/if it does, the only way SLHG would take off is if there's a large community push around it similar to what we saw with PM...and that was largely because people weren't satisfied with Brawl. People seem A LOT more accepting of Smash 4 as it is.

The scene now is a lot different than how it was when Brawl released. People have learned to accept, whether rightfully or not, to stick with the game they like and know. The people who want to play a faster paced game already have that in the form of Melee, or PM, or Rivals, or even Smash 64. The most we can do is to get people to play it and hope they enjoy it.

On my end, well...we haven't set it up yet. My friend has been running around enjoying the venue. But I'm gonna make sure we get it up at least one day this week, it's too fun not to share it with people.

 

[TheDerp]

I guess we have to wait for Project Brawl to exist to get SLHG some popularity Kappa

 

[Muro]

Even if that was doable, wouldn't Nintendo patch it all in a heartbeat though?

The last patch is coming, and also the modding scene is only in its infancy. Whenever a useful mod arrives Nintendo will have already stopped patching the game.

 

[blargh257]

Shouldn't the jump heights from Heavy Gravity and Anchor Jump be the same? If not, doesn't that mean that Anchor Jump is a greater increase to gravity?

I'm not sure. Captain Falcon cannot down throw dash attack Fox at 0 in SLHG. He can under Anchor Jump.

 

[SAHunterMech]

I'm not sure. Captain Falcon cannot down throw dash attack Fox at 0 in SLHG. He can under Anchor Jump.

Does Fox go too low or too high to follow up in SLHG?

 

[cerealkiller]

The last patch is coming, and also the modding scene is only in its infancy. Whenever a useful mod arrives Nintendo will have already stopped patching the game.

For good? I thought they meant regular balancing patches. I would still expect a patch if hard glitches and such were found (in the near future at least).

 

[Muro]

For good? I thought they meant regular balancing patches. I would still expect a patch if hard glitches and such were found (in the near future at least).

eh, they're nintendo and all, but I don't see them patching bugs caused by modding the game, unless it interferes with other players.

Btw Aunt Jemima seems like you got your wish.

 

[blargh257]

Does Fox go too low or too high to follow up in SLHG?

Too low. You have to techchase, which is why I think mixing up between fthrow and dthrow in that scenario is good to mix up tech timing.

 

[SAHunterMech]

So that means that overall gravity/fallspeed in SLHG is higher than with Anchor Jump, which makes it unlikely that jumps are lower in the latter than the former.

 

[Muro]

So that means that overall gravity/fallspeed in SLHG is higher than with Anchor Jump, which makes it unlikely that jumps are lower in the latter than the former.

So you haven't even tested it?

Testing SLAJ I have noticed one major difference. Sadly, it's to my favorite character, .
In SLHG Meta Knight can full hop between Battlefield platforms, and if he up airs between them it is a fantastic combo extender, essentially acting as another free hit or, if no DI, an up tilt to another staircase up air if on the lower platforms, which you probably should be since MK has issues getting to the top. He can't do this anymore because he can't full hop between the platforms.
To my knowledge, he also can't SH autocancel up air, but this may just be me inputting poorly.

Reserved confirmed this as well with other characters.

Edit: btw just played for a bit with MK, his nair is soooo good. Finally starting to like the character.

 

[nannerham]

Here you guys go my opinions are subject to change pretty much anytime

This goes with my previous comment, you'll see that that the more mobile you are the better off you are in the meta since pretty much everyone has a solid punish game though there are characters who don't move that fast, most of them have an unmatched punish game and a safe move to throw out in order to start their combo to balance that out their mobility is lacking. I'd love to hear some opinions.

Edit: grammar

 

[KeithTheGeek]

We got a few people to try it and they enjoyed it, but I don't know if we convinced anyone to keep playing it. Hoping we can get some more games in later today with some of the Melee crowd.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

The last patch is coming, and also the modding scene is only in its infancy. Whenever a useful mod arrives Nintendo will have already stopped patching the game.

Actually, it doesn't even matter if they patch the game. We can run emuNAND w/ hacked copies of the game installed, so it'll allow us to use SLHG online regardless.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Actually, it doesn't even matter if they patch the game. We can run emuNAND w/ hacked copies of the game installed, so it'll allow us to use SLHG online regardless.

WHEN,WHERE? Sign me up

 

[BlueFury]

Ok so I know DH was mention and considered as garbage but I decided to dive deeper into his move set as a character and since I for a while main'd him in Vanilla I thought I would give my opinion.

Summary:
I see he has some combos but most are good reads unfortunately for him. His aerials are decent can be spaced if fast fell'd, since SLHG speeds everything up he can react a little faster which for him is a plus. He can d throw read their DI then up b with Duck Jump Snag but that's at certain percents and on certain characters so it's more or less just a mix up not really a confirm. His specials are more for set ups / traps or mix ups not something you want to spam like in vanilla since most characters can close in and "REALLY" punish you for doing so. Duck Hunt main game plan in SLHG is to quickly damage you with well read aerials and / or mixups with his specials and get you off stage so he can keep you off basically. I say space well and anticipate your opponents movement so you can either close in quickly or trap and end them with his can. (I tested against Lvl 9 Sheik since I don't really have somebody else to test with regularly.)

Pro's:
Decent aerials
Increase movement / speed overall (due to smooth lander and heavy gravity)
Jab is better due to the heavy gravity
Off stage is decent, the Duck Jump Snag recovery helps this (of course)
Edge guarding is more rewarding for him since he can keep you off if you know how to use his can and other tools well enough
Nair is good for reading aerial dodges, also a good start up in some cases

Con's:
He gets punished heavily if you aren't careful
His Duck Jump Snag recovery is pretty readable (ofc)
Default recovery sucks.....


Incorrect...
Sometimes his side b (frisbee) doesn't stun the opponent long enough on the collision (will register as a tap hit, very annoying) and the following gunshots end up missing as well

Edit: Disregard I did more testing and his frisbee actually connects better in SLHG due to the disc having more weight to it so its a pro not con (go figure).


He may have more pro's and con's that I missed but this is all I can think of at the moment.

Conclusion:
Duck Hunt is a pretty decent character in SLHG he can have some crazy mix ups but most are hard reads so he's more technical I say. His fast fall aerials help him immensely.Duck Hunt in a way is a glass cannon, he can hold his own if in the right hands and can overwhelm his opponent with extremely good reads and mix ups or get "rekt" simple as that.
Overall I say he's better in SLHG than in Vanilla, most definitely.


Let me know if you guys agree or disagree all opinions are welcomed.

 

[SaturnFrost]

Ok so I know DH was mention and considered as garbage but I decided to dive deeper into his move set as a character and since I for a while main'd him in Vanilla I thought I would give my opinion.

Summary:
I see he has some combos but most are good reads unfortunately for him. His aerials are decent can be spaced if fast fell'd, since SLHG speeds everything up he can react a little faster which for him is a plus. He can d throw read their DI then up b with Duck Jump Snag but that's at certain percents and on certain characters so it's more or less just a mix up not really a confirm. His specials are more for set ups / traps or mix ups not something you want to spam like in vanilla since most characters can close in and "REALLY" punish you for doing so. Duck Hunt main game plan in SLHG is to quickly damage you with well read aerials and / or mixups with his specials and get you off stage so he can keep you off basically. I say space well and anticipate your opponents movement so you can either close in quickly or trap and end them with his can. (I tested against Lvl 9 Sheik since I don't really have somebody else to test with regularly.)

Pro's:
Decent aerials
Increase movement / speed
Jab is better due to the heavy gravity
Off stage is decent the Duck Jump Snag recovery helps this (of course)
Edge guarding is more rewarding for him since he can keep you off if you know how to use his can and other tools well enough
Nair is good for reading aerial dodges, also a good start up in some cases

Con's:
He gets punished heavily if you aren't careful
His Duck Jump Snag recovery is pretty readable (ofc)
Default recovery sucks.....
Sometimes his side b (frisbee) doesn't stun the opponent long enough on the collision (will register as a tap hit, very annoying) and the following gunshots end up missing as well

He may have more pro's and con's that I missed but this is all I can think of at the moment.

Conclusion:
Duck Hunt is a pretty decent character in SLHG he can have some crazy mix ups but most are hard reads so he's more technical I say. His fast fall aerials help him immensely.Duck Hunt in a way is a glass cannon, he can hold his own if in the right hands and can overwhelm his opponent with extremely good reads and mix ups or get "rekt" simple as that.
Overall I say he's better in SLHG than in Vanilla, most definitely.


Let me know if you guys agree or disagree all opinions are welcomed.

I'll give him a test and add to your observations afterward ^_^

*Added info:

All in my opinion of course
His nair is his best approach tool (sex kick with lingering hitbox,can land and lead to down or forward tilt for shield pressure). His smash attacks are easy to avoid and easy to punish so i rarely use them. His Snag Jump is his best recovery option (has a hitbox that can stage spike,has good horizantal and better vertical momentum that default up B). Fair and nair are good for off stage gimping but its risky to go for those.

 

[Krysco]

I finally got to play this mode with another person, my cousin to be exact. He mostly plays Melee and he really enjoyed Fox and Doc. He also enjoyed Cloud, Link and Captain Falcon but mostly Fox and Doc.

I still love Falco but also really enjoy R.O.B., Robin, Lucas Pikachu, Ganondorf and Mario.

We both prefer this mode over vanilla Sm4sh and we might keep playing it (I know I will at the very least).

 

[Muro]

Friends, after much deliberation on my part I've decided that MK is, in fact, the truth. That is all.

 

[SaturnFrost]

-speed thunder (neutral B)Robin
-Wizards dropkick (Down B) Ganon
-Dragon Rush (Side B) Charizard
-Duck jump Snag (Up B) DHD
-Dash Slam (Side B) Bowser
are a few customs I've been testing in consideration for making them staple for these characters.

I know we havent talked custom in some time but i've been doing some testing. These arent game breaking customs, but are customs that make other wise clunky characters play a bit more fluid.

I'd like for all the characters to be as close as possible in possibilities of winning ,without breaking them of course. So Let me know your opinions if you test them out in your roster.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I was messing with a couple of customs at some point, I think for Toon Link and Greninja, but I think we largely don't need any besides the ones we've agreed to use. I'll quickly give my opinion on those you've mentioned, though.

• Robin- Default Thunder is actually a powerful move on it's own. When nearly fully charged (Arc Thunder, I believe) it's amazing for shield pressure, and the speed it moves at can make it a tad bit difficult to deal with. I don't really see where Robin needs the change.
• yes please
• Mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, Dragon Rush solves so many of Charizard's problems with approaching, recovering, following up, safety on shield, etc. But it also kinda simplifies his gameplan a lot. But, granted, I haven't tried him out in SLHG so I'm not too sure on how the physics change affects him.
• We already use this IIRC
• An approach tool this good would be a bit much for Bowser, particularly seeing as how he now has kill confirms from throw. Dash Klaw would be a little better in this regard since it's technically less safe on shield, but even then you basically will see Bowsers wave dashing into grab for the kill. That's...something I don't think anyone actually wants lol.

These things could be fun to mess around with on the side but at this point in time we should try to keep things focused, since we don't really have much of a scene yet.

 

[SaturnFrost]

I was messing with a couple of customs at some point, I think for Toon Link and Greninja, but I think we largely don't need any besides the ones we've agreed to use. I'll quickly give my opinion on those you've mentioned, though.

• Robin- Default Thunder is actually a powerful move on it's own. When nearly fully charged (Arc Thunder, I believe) it's amazing for shield pressure, and the speed it moves at can make it a tad bit difficult to deal with. I don't really see where Robin needs the change.
• yes please
• Mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, Dragon Rush solves so many of Charizard's problems with approaching, recovering, following up, safety on shield, etc. But it also kinda simplifies his gameplan a lot. But, granted, I haven't tried him out in SLHG so I'm not too sure on how the physics change affects him.
• We already use this IIRC
• An approach tool this good would be a bit much for Bowser, particularly seeing as how he now has kill confirms from throw. Dash Klaw would be a little better in this regard since it's technically less safe on shield, but even then you basically will see Bowsers wave dashing into grab for the kill. That's...something I don't think anyone actually wants lol.

These things could be fun to mess around with on the side but at this point in time we should try to keep things focused, since we don't really have much of a scene yet.

-For Robin the Move charges faster,releases and recovers faster. Its not as strong (minus a couple percent), but charges 1 second faster. The thunder bolts also travel further and faster.
-The charizard change is more for recovery purposes similar to ganons down B swap since default Side B is suicidal for recovering.
-Bowsers Side B throw dash is just to get a ranged distance closer coupled with a grab. I chose it over the slash because the slash is a lingering hitbox that pretty much changes the function of the move entirely. As mentioned he can wave dash while having an active hit box,no thanks.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

2:22 #Legalizedashslash

 

[SaturnFrost]

2:22 #Legalizedashslash

again im not really a fan of the slash and prefer the grab over it. The grab still gives you a wave dash like effect without changing the functionality of the move and without adding a hitbox while in the wave dash.

 

[Krysco]

My cousin and I played slhg again last night which is a good sign since he's pretty much given up on vanilla (we'll probably play vanilla again when Corrin comes out since that character interests him). We've both found more characters we enjoy and are learning more about the characters we already like.

My favourite characters:
Honorable mentions to
That's largely in order although it's not a clear cut I like one more than the other. Robin, I feel, doesn't even really gain too much from slhg and it just shows how much I like her playstyle. I have learned that she has trouble getting down from platforms at times due to her low speed. Sonic I honestly just like because his recovery is nerfed. He's the same, irritating, fast ball he is in vanilla but his recovery isn't as free.

As for my cousin: and he keeps trying to like but wishes he gained more from slhg.

From our matches I can easily say Fox and Doc are scary. Doc has actual combos while keeping his power while Fox is fast and has kill confirms. My cousin and I refer to Falcon and Cloud as ***** and Samus is pretty damn scary since her aerials are practically lagless.

Roy and Ganon can get kills so easily off one simple read. Lucas has nice spacing options in zair, PK fire and fair and he has nice combos. I've noticed that his, M2 and Ness' double jumps don't seem to be affected by the heavy gravity. Both my cousin and I like the damage racking ability Pikachu has but he does have trouble getting kills outside of edgeguards and reads. Not sure if he's like that in vanilla.

As for the customs talk, we might start using customs ourselves (neither of us use Megaman or Duck Hunt). My cousin mentioned how crazy it would be if Falco had his Melee shine and I told him that one of his custom reflectors sends opponents up like his Melee one. Not sure if it'll be useful or not though. Only custom I'm missing now is one of side b ones.

I should see about reading through this whole thread and see what's been discovered before I got into it.

Edit: Forgot, my cousin uses too.

 

[BlueFury]

Krysco sounds like your really enjoying it great, keep playing, learning and spread the word.

also Ganondorf is Boss in SLHG ^_^

 

[Hyper_Kirby]

You don't really need to change Char's up b. His jumps and recovery are pretty underwhelming in slhg, but if you jump and up b at the same time you get your jump height increased thus making your up b travel further. I can finally use his strong up b custom for combos now without worrying about getting gimped at a ridiculous percent later : P

 

[ZADD]

Heads up guys, cool glitch.

When activating Heavy Gravity, turn on Stamina then go to the Character Select screen, then back out and turn off Stamina.

This will play like normal SLHG, but will maintain the Slo-mo Screen Effect from stamina. Pretty cool imo.

Makes the last kill much more exciting! Probably has to do with how the original Online Special Smash glitch worked?

 

[Allec145]

Could someone explain the rules to me? Like what custom moves are used/allowed. How many stocks and time or just anything overall I need to know about SLHG? Would appreciate the help ( :

 

[SaturnFrost]

Could someone explain the rules to me? Like what custom moves are used/allowed. How many stocks and time or just anything overall I need to know about SLHG? Would appreciate the help ( :

Smooth Lander heagy Gravity:
3 stock 7 minutes (or 4 stock 8 minute,I prefer 3 and 7), Duck hunt up B changed to Snag jump, Mega man up B changed to Tornado jump.

*We are currently discussing and testing (at least i am) a few other customs including but not limited to Ganon down B Wizard drop kick and Charizards side b Dragon rush for recovery issues.

Page 1 of this thread will tell you everything you need to know about setting up SLHG.

Hopefully I havent misinformed you in any way.

Welcome to the thread.

 

[Allec145]

Smooth Lander heagy Gravity:
3 stock 7 minutes (or 4 stock 8 minute,I prefer 3 and 7), Duck hunt up B changed to Snag jump, Mega man up B changed to Tornado jump.

*We are currently discussing and testing (at least i am) a few other customs including but not limited to Ganon down B Wizard drop kick and Charizards side b Dragon rush for recovery issues.

Page 1 of this thread will tell you everything you need to know about setting up SLHG.

Hopefully I havent misinformed you in any way.

Welcome to the thread.

Thanks I appreciate it. I agree on CHARIZARD and Ganondorf on the custom changes. I use custom on characters that I think help then out in this mode or just 1v1 in general. That's why I was asking about what customs where being used in this meta game. Hope more get in like sonics side special hammer spin dash and diddy kong side special flying monkey kick help so much when it comes to recovering. I hope the community comes closer on looking at customs that help the character and make moves better for a 1v1.

 

[ZADD]

From a TO standpoint, I would only allow the custom Tornado Hold. Thats because without it, Mega Man can be seriously abused. DHD's recovery change is nowhere near worth the grind if you aren't going to use Super Duck Jump. (Especially when you're setting up 4-6 setups from scratch, it adds a lot of unwarranted time.)

The rest of the customs are just personal preference boosts, the characters are fully capable without them. Customs + SLHG would only work if ALL or NONE, ie. an SLHG Customs tournament vs SLHG regular.


Edit: Customs diminish the whole point of SLHG, it should have a higher reliance on moves that don't commit. If you rely on customs to succeed in SLHG, or for a certain character to succeed, you are seriously holding yourself back in terms of application. Just play Vanilla.

 

[Allec145]

And what about mii fighters? How are they working? Do we use a certain size and weight on the mii maker when making the mii fighters in smash? Or just no miis at all?

 

[ZADD]

I don't use Miis personally, but I have nothing against them.

I would set up the current competitive standard builds for all 3.

 

[Allec145]

From a TO standpoint, I would only allow the custom Tornado Hold. Thats because without it, Mega Man can be seriously abused. DHD's recovery change is nowhere near worth the grind if you aren't going to use Super Duck Jump. (Especially when you're setting up 4-6 setups from scratch, it adds a lot of unwarranted time.)

The rest of the customs are just personal preference boosts, the characters are fully capable without them. Customs + SLHG would only work if ALL or NONE, ie. an SLHG Customs tournament vs SLHG regular.


Edit: Customs diminish the whole point of SLHG, it should have a higher reliance on moves that don't commit. If you rely on customs to succeed in SLHG, or for a certain character to succeed, you are seriously holding yourself back in terms of application. Just play Vanilla.

Than

From a TO standpoint, I would only allow the custom Tornado Hold. Thats because without it, Mega Man can be seriously abused. DHD's recovery change is nowhere near worth the grind if you aren't going to use Super Duck Jump. (Especially when you're setting up 4-6 setups from scratch, it adds a lot of unwarranted time.)

The rest of the customs are just personal preference boosts, the characters are fully capable without them. Customs + SLHG would only work if ALL or NONE, ie. an SLHG Customs tournament vs SLHG regular.


Edit: Customs diminish the whole point of SLHG, it should have a higher reliance on moves that don't commit. If you rely on customs to succeed in SLHG, or for a certain character to succeed, you are seriously holding yourself back in terms of application. Just play Vanilla.

Was just wondering where the customs stands when it comes to SLHG. Didn't know if they were allowed or not.