Meta Smooth Lander and Heavy Gravity (SLHG)

[Krysco]

You shouldn't have to rebuy the DLC, you'll just have to redownload it from the eshop if that data ends up getting deleted with everything else. That stuff should show up with your previous purchases.

I personally think it would be worth it, unlocking the characters and stages again shouldn't take too long. Getting the customs again will likely be the biggest issue, but for the time being you can just focus on Duck Hunt's since we use one of the custom up specials for him.

However, the lack of people to play this with is definitely a big barrier. It'd be a lot easier to recommend this if online special smash was still there, but it ain't. :/

Ah okay, that's good to know. I wonder if I'll have to buy Mewtwo since I got him for having both versions initially?

Yeah, unlocking characters and stages is easy and customs just takes two weeks of Ganon punching bombs on autopilot. I guess I should look further into this project to see what customs are generally used. You mentioned Duck Hunt and I'm pretty sure Megaman uses a different one too?

As for people, I conveniently have a cousin who ditched Sm4sh for a few months in favor of Melee and P:M. He came back to Sm4sh when Cloud came out but I'm sure he'd enjoy the faster, less safe gameplay of SLHG.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

Mega Man's is a challenge unlock, and it's pretty easy to unlock iirc.

 

[ZADD]

Beat Master orders with Mega Man. If you want to use the method I used for the tournament here it is.

• Wipe Smash Wii U Memory
• Re-download DLC Fighters/Stages
• Beat 100 Man Smash (1st Hammer)
• Clear All-star any difficulty (2nd Hammer)
• Clear Master Orders with Mega Man (Alt Custom + Crazy Orders Ticket)
• Clear Crazy Orders with Villager (3rd Hammer)
• Use 3 Hammers on challenges A7, B2, B6
• Make a loadout for every character with Badges: Smooth Lander Brawn, Item Hitter Agility, Moon Launcher Protection
• Unlock the rest of the characters and Smashville. if you need, farm for Duck Hunt's Alt Recovery (Super Duck Jump)

Thats it, for one console it took me 20 minutes to set up SLHG. Unlocking the cast and DLC took longer ironically.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Sorry Aunt Jemima , but I can't find the document either. However, I do remember some of the things we talked about on it.

1. An improved combo game relying more on tech chases
2. A general increase in speed as the langing lag on aerials decrease and characters fall to the ground faster
3. Faster game times. Damage from moonlauncher and inctreased combo strings make stocks go by faster.
4. Recovery is more linear, allowing for many more options of offstage edgeguards.
5. Extremely easy to unlock from a fresh save file. Only taking about 20 minutes to get the desired equipment from the challenge board.
6. Only 1 instance of a case where you need to grind for a custom move. (Duck Hunt)

There may be more points, but I can't think of them off of the top of my head.

 

[ZADD]

I can add a few.

• Airdodging is far riskier.
• Off-stage fighting is riskier, but more rewarding.
• Combos favor the aggressor a lot more, ie. better Advantage state.
• Greater necessity to Tech and DI.
• Many more true combos, some are inescapable.
• Huge improvements to Slow and Heavy characters.
• Less time to react, ie. quicker overall.
• Greater variety of play styles, most characters can be played aggressively or defensively.

 

[Muro]

You guys covered pretty much everything but I'll add a few bullet points:

• Less floaty.
• Shields and other defensive options are indirectly nerfed since it's easier to pressure with aerials.
  
• Aerial mixups are enhanced by your ability to land faster (defender has less time to react to whatever option you pick).

Also, since Aunt Jemima isn't doing the new thread anymore, do you guys want to change the name of the thread to "Smooth Gravity"?

And last, Happy Holidays!

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

I think keeping it as smooth lander heavy gravity is fine. I've been referring to it as SLHG anyways.

 

[Muro]

and another one:

pretty cool, from the comments it seems like you can't tech spikes after being footstooled.. didn't know that.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

That Sonic one was pretty funny.

The video reminded me I've been wanting to lab stuff...hopefully sooner rather than later I'll be able to stream some SLHG, but it'd just be me beating up a CPU lol. Just waiting on some cables to come in, although it'll likely be low quality video unfortunately.

 

[Larkisaurus]

Hey Everyone, i just decided ro see what this SLHG stuff was about and I'm liking the potential I see. I main Lucas just because of what he can do with jablocks, and since in this mode practically anything sets up for a footstool im interested in checking it out more. On an unrealted note, has anybody come up with a barebones tierlist just for SLHG? Thanks.

 

[blargh257]

On an unrealted note, has anybody come up with a barebones tierlist just for SLHG? Thanks.

I do them from time to time, but they can't really be proven, they're mostly just lists of impressions if anything. I'll do one today.

EDIT
Here's what I think right now.

If you go through the thread you can find a lot of other ones.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Footstooling looks super good in SLHG... broken even especially with Kirby.
Of course, I'll need to play more games with people myself before I make an official statements. I mean, who knows how many footstool setups are actually true comboes afterwards.

 

[nannerham]

Tier list

Not a bad list there's a few chars that could be higher on there (especially my boy lucario, those mobility buffs were amazing) but pretty solid overall. Basically we know that every character has combos, even the worst characters have devastating combos, and honestly what seperates a good character from being a great character is:

1) how susceptible you are to being gimped, granted recoveries are generally nerfed across the board but theres still characters that can make it back to the stage with 0 effort, there are the characters with a plethora of options and mixups they can use to get back to the stage (ZSS, Mk, Pikachu, ect.) and then theres the characters who have have dumb things to cover themselves getting back (sheik: intangibility, mario: up b 4 frames of invincibility, dedede: super armor) generally these characters not having to worry about a common way of dying is a preeeetty good thing to have.

2) your character having good mobility and this is the really important one, when I look at the top 20 on blargh's tier list almost all of those characters are incredibly fast on the ground and especially fast in the air. Having combos is one thing, but being able to extend your combos and constantly pressure your opponent is what cements you to being a top character in SLHG, sheik can dance around your shield and never once let you breath, mario has a hilariously easy time juggling people thanks to his fantastic aerial mobility, pikachu's edgeguarding game is unmatched because of how easily he can carry you offstage and can go as deep as he wants.

This is my 2 cents on the matter, I don't think anyone in SLHG is bad (except maybe two characters) I might make a tier list sometime but I'll have to ironman the cast again before i make that decision lol.

 

[Muro]

I agree with Lucario being better. He's slow but he's got a ridiculous up tilt, and he benefits a lot from HG, not only he lives longer, he's near impossible to gimp. And due to aura+rage he starts hitting like a truck.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

To be honest, I don't think footstooling is all that great. We're seeing a controller-less character get destroyed, which doesn't take into account having to read the DI to actually footstool and reading the DI when footstool'd to follow up with an attack.

also pls gib online

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I would disagree with Dedede being that bad solely because his gameplan actually functions properly in SLHG. He can wall you out and then, oops, I'm off stage with a giant spike ball of death flying my way. Plus he actually has a combo game that lasts past 40% lol.

His general sluggishness is still a big issue, as the more mobile characters can weave in and out, but this is largely the same as it was in vanilla, only now D3 is an actual threat. If I had to take a stab in the dark he's probably a solid mid-tier because of his clearly defined flaws hold him back, but he's also probably one of the scariest characters in the game to face now.

But maybe I'm just being very optimistic because I'm used to bad Dedede lol.

 

[blargh257]

I would disagree with Dedede being that bad solely because his gameplan actually functions properly in SLHG. He can wall you out and then, oops, I'm off stage with a giant spike ball of death flying my way. Plus he actually has a combo game that lasts past 40% lol.

His general sluggishness is still a big issue, as the more mobile characters can weave in and out, but this is largely the same as it was in vanilla, only now D3 is an actual threat. If I had to take a stab in the dark he's probably a solid mid-tier because of his clearly defined flaws hold him back, but he's also probably one of the scariest characters in the game to face now.

But maybe I'm just being very optimistic because I'm used to bad Dedede lol.

D3 works decently well but I think he gets a bit too destroyed. Besides, he doesn't suck (to be clear I don't think anyone sucks except maybe DH)

 

[BlueFury]

We don't really have a real tier list yet L Larkisaurus but blargh's isn't too bad some I personally don't agree with but pretty close/accurate and I don't think DH is that bad, but nobody mains him so we don't know his limits kind of like pac man at the moment.

Footstools seem like unexplored territory in my opinion I agree with hobbes it could be pretty groundbreaking if fully tested lol there is so much stuff that needs to be worked out in SLHG it's crazy.

I kinda like Smooth Gravity we should go by both though if this does blow up Smooth Gravity rolls off the tongue a little better then SLHG.

 

[blargh257]

Personally I've always liked pronouncing SLHG "slug."
On footstools, I tried the Diddy one and I can sort of do it, but it's a bit harder against anyone that moves because you have to keep track of both DI and where they fall for the footstool. It's good though, really makes going for the dair read worthwhile which I love.

 

[ZADD]

Gotta agree. Although doable, most footstool setups require hard reads.

Some characters can initiate them pretty easily though, with good results.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

So the video is gonna look like 2008 Brawl era video capture, but I'm gonna stream a bit of SLHG. Just me wailing on a CPU though, but feel free to join lol.

twitch.tv/keiththegeek

EDIT: Wrapping up for now. Maybe next time I can work out a solution so I can have microphone audio too.

Jiggs and Pac-man are pretty fun.

 

[Hyper_Kirby]

Do you guys know Zelda can infinite with her nair? Just down throw turn around nair regrab and repeat.
edit- With Rage nair puts you into tumble hitstun so you tech chase or some jank stuff.
Some other good things she can do (That also can be done in Vanilla) are:

Down tilt jump cancel up b (make sure down tilt is stale in vanilla)(also up b is knockback is decreased in slhg slightly. so it might not hit

Falling nair to up b. Make sure nair does tumble hit stun in Vanilla (but any stun is fine for SLHG)

Jab to up b. (In slhg they are almost always forced to tech and you can condition them for hard reads).( In vanilla depending on their di they can jump away but most time they have they have to tech)

 

[TheDerp]

This is most likely already found out due to how simple it is but Fox has a Dair infinite combo.
You pretty much do a short hop Dair, then you sort of do another, and another...
SLHG is fun.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

If Samus has a full charged shot, and grabs you at a certain % range (varies with characters, might not work on floaties), you're dead. Dthrow -> charge shot SEEMS to true combo, though I would have to test with someone else to be sure...

Also, lol, this probably isn't anything new (and it's very Melee-esque) but Jiggs has falling uair -> Rest, which again works at death %s. If you cross them up and land a falling uair, as long as the opponent lands behind Jiggs (main reason I mentioned the cross up) you can combo into it with a utilt, or maybe usmash, or extend the combo with one of her aerials. You can also use Sing to get that silly Smash 4 auto-snap if you're running low on jumps. She feels a lot like Melee Jiggs without the silly jank coming from Rest and everyone having bad recoveries.

Pac-man just feels like Smash 4 Pac-man, but I imagine the gravity messes up some of his fruit set-ups. A proper Pac-main would have to test to see what works and doesn't work, but he feels pretty solid to me.

 

[moofpi]

Yeah, I was fighting my friend's Fox as Jiggs and I went for an early percent up throw > rest on a top platform for the kill and we all just yelled MELEEE.

 

[blargh257]

This is most likely already found out due to how simple it is but Fox has a Dair infinite combo.
You pretty much do a short hop Dair, then you sort of do another, and another...
SLHG is fun.

I think that can be shielded. I've tried to do it when there was online and it put on pressure but I got shielded, and that was by Mewtwo who's really light.
On another note, I just found out today that DK can SH autocancel his up air, which I'm fairly sure is stupid good.

 

[Muro]

I think that can be shielded. I've tried to do it when there was online and it put on pressure but I got shielded, and that was by Mewtwo who's really light.
On another note, I just found out today that DK can SH autocancel his up air, which I'm fairly sure is stupid good.

Yeah usually I'll test stuff against CPU9 Shiek, and it'll shield/airdodge if it's possible. The only thing is their DI/techs are not good but other than that is a good starting point to see if combos work. I think in this case the CPU9 will shield the second drill.

Edgeguarding with falco is better than I expected. If you hang on the ledge while they're recovering and then drop down > DJ > bair you'll hit them away from the stage (which is nice since they can't tech) and you can even time it for those vulnerability frames when grabbing the ledge. Low risk too since you can land on-stage (or tech the stage if you do get hit), falco jumps super high.

Edit: well looks like @SmashCapps is retiring, so probably no article anymore. Crazy work schedule, thanks for even considering writing an article for us when we're so few.

Good luck with your life, hopefully the fire comes back after a while

Edit2: or maybe not lol

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Edgeguarding with falco is better than I expected. If you hang on the ledge while they're recovering and then drop down > DJ > bair you'll hit them away from the stage (which is nice since they can't tech) and you can even time it for those vulnerability frames when grabbing the ledge. Low risk too since you can land on-stage.

I find using Falco's fair is a better edgeguard tool. It lasts forever and catches airdodges and you can throw it out and cover a much larger area as you fall.

 

[Muro]

I agree, but to edgeguard lower bair is better since it's faster.

 

[blargh257]

My favorite is using laser to eat jumps, but that's pretty much terrible and probably just for people like me who don't feel safe offstage.
...
The other day I figured out how to do things with Toon Link and it's really cool. He just gets so much so often off the boomerang and the bombs. He reminds me a lot of Smash 64 Link where you can sort of make your own setups with the projectiles. One of my favorites is to throw a bomb at where the opponent is about to be and then see if the bomb hits or not. If it does, jump and fair them and they're dead, if not, I think nair or fair could work.

 

[Krysco]

So I reset my data on my Wii U to get the SLHG equipment again, have all but 4 challenges done (I'm a complentionist), have all characters and stages and am working on getting all customs and music again (I've got the two? customs that I believe matter for SLHG: Tornado thing for Mega Man and the windy up special for Duck Hunt) and when I'm not doing Crazy Orders for CDs or Classic 7.0, I'm doing matches with SLHG and level 7 ai.

So far I love Falco the most in SLHG. I have a bit of bias since with my old data, the first 5 I was able to test were but Falco feels the best out of the 5. Not a fan of Fox or D3 while Kirby is good fun and Meta Knight is interesting.

Gonna eventually give every character a try but gah damn does SLHG Falco remind me of Wolf with those short hop bairs.

Can't wait for my cousin to get back from the States. He pretty much gave up on Sm4sh and only got back into it when Cloud came out and I'm sure he'll love this 'mode'. I know I do!

 

[KeithTheGeek]

So there's a room here at AGDQ dedicated to Smash Bros. It's mostly people bringing in Melee, but maybe tomorrow we can set up a smooth lander set-up and see what happens...

 

[TheDerp]

I got 2 amiibo for Christmas and thought it would be a good idea to try and train my Kirby amiibo using SLHG.
Amiibos eat equipment and you can't get it back once fed, also the stats are halfed when fed (Not sure, seems like it though), luckily I didn't feed it the Smoothlander badge I use for SLHG, instead, I fed it one other I got off Classic. I didn't have a spare Moon launcher badge so I just made it's stats as close as possible to +22 -14 +7 (since that's the stats you get when you combine the Smoothlander badge, the default Defender badge and the default Agility badge), I could only get +22 -10 +7 though, since I couldn't find anything that would get it just right.
Fighting amiibos with SLHG is kinda fun actually.

If I ever get a Moon Launcher badge I'm going to try to get the stats to or around -4 +2 +3. I'm also considering giving my MetaKnight amiibo the SLHG build since I have a Smoothlander bat.

 

[SaturnFrost]

My Personal SLHG Tier List...Without a doubt will change the more tech we find out and experiment with and discuss. But this is my opinion of the cast as of now.

List is Based mostly off of how fast characters can land kills + how many ways they can land kills vs how easily they are killed.

Each character per tier level is in no particular order. They just have a slight advantage (imo) over the characters in the tier below them.

Mii's not included.

Feedback and ideas on changes are welcome of course ^_^; ...

 

[ZADD]

Put Meta Knight, Peach, Yoshi, and Rosalina in S-tier. There's no reason for them to be anything less, they are monsters.

Link's not that great I've used him a bunch against players, he's C-tier at best. Same with Jiggs, (they might be better but they're still terrible overall.)

Bowser has the best kill setups, but Charizard can deal with most matchups better, putting him above Bowser IMO. DeDeDe is more vulnerable than ever and doesn't really gain anything new combo-wise, dropping him down to C or worse.

 

[Muro]

can this in any way give us special smash online? Aunt Jemima SAHunterMech

 

[Hydde]

When i see experiments like this... it pains me how much a lot of people like me miss the godly gameplay from Melee.

Everyday i pray for a successor of Sakurai to come and bring the gameplay back from the old melee good times.

Samsh would be much better this way. Action packed.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

can this in any way give us special smash online? Aunt Jemima SAHunterMech

Maybe?

It depends on the game's checks for online hacks, which are impossible to test atm.

 

[SAHunterMech]

I know for sure that the game checks equipment validity for online play, as it's the same check as when you transfee equipment, but beyond that I'm not sure.

I COULD, however, make a 3Ds save with Anchor Jump, Moon Launcher, and Smooth Lander equips on all characters that are transfer-legal.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Pretty sure he's talking about legit Heavy Gravity, not equipment.

It might be possible for both users to have the universal gravity boosted in vanilla play and carry that over to online, iunno.