Smashers, I kindly ask for your support.

[StaffofSmashing]

Reggie was featured in the Mii Fighter's trailer because people signed the petition.
People are rumoring around Dragon Ball is getting on Netflix because of a HUGE petition.

These 2 were supported by hundreds of thousands of people. No one will support that petition because of the reasonable limits set around the stage list.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Deleted post

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Plus that video was only 6 players. The 2 extra on top of that really makes a difference.

It's stated in the description of the video that 2 "doppelgangers" were used to fill up the last 2 characters.

and what difference would that be if I may ask?

 

[praline]

What difference would that be if I may ask?

It'd be chaotic as ****. There's a reason the tiny stages don't work for 8 player.

 

[StaffofSmashing]

It'd be chaotic as ****. There's a reason the tiny stages don't work for 8 player.

I second this.
8 Olimars, each with all 3 Pikmin, on a stage like Battlefield, all going ham. Your Wii U would blow off smoke trying to process all of that (oh, yeah, LAAAAAAG)

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Plus that video was only 6 players. The 2 extra on top of that really makes a difference.

The video's description clearly states that 2 doppelgangers were used for the last 2 characters.

and what difference would that be if I may ask?

I second this.
8 Olimars, each with all 3 Pikmin, on a stage like Battlefield, all going ham. Your Wii U would blow off smoke trying to process all of that (oh, yeah, LAAAAAAG)

You do know that Regular Battlefield is selectable in 8 Player Smash and Olimar is still playable in the Wii U version right?

It'd be chaotic as ****. There's a reason the tiny stages don't work for 8 player.

What is that reason? I've yet to have gotten an answer and give me an example of these "tiny stages" of concern so that we don't keep making mistakes with battlefield.

 

[Hayzie]

WAIT...... 8 player Smash is available online? So that means I can 8 player Smash with friends? THAT IS THE SICKNESS.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

WAIT...... 8 player Smash is available online? So that means I can 8 player Smash with friends? THAT IS THE SICKNESS.

what do you mean?

 

[praline]

I second this.
8 Olimars, each with all 3 Pikmin, on a stage like Battlefield, all going ham. Your Wii U would blow off smoke trying to process all of that (oh, yeah, LAAAAAAG)

lol Where'd you get this logic?

 

[mikeyn1gm]

I second this.
8 Olimars, each with all 3 Pikmin, on a stage like Battlefield, all going ham. Your Wii U would blow off smoke trying to process all of that (oh, yeah, LAAAAAAG)

lol Where'd you get this logic?

That's what I'm talking about. I don't mind that some of you dudes are against the unrestrictions but at least backup what you're saying

 

[StaffofSmashing]

lol Where'd you get this logic?

Over-exageration.
Still, having to process 32 characters on a tiny stage will be a difficult task... I think *does math*

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Over-exageration.
Still, having to process 32 characters on a tiny stage will be a difficult task... I think *does math*

you think? aww come on man lol

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

Did you watch the video? was there a stage not shown in the video that brings the concern of "not working"?

The online is an additional thing.......the main thing is the restrictions although we don't even know how the online is for Wii U compared to Brawl in which they are now pushing us to use Wired Connection which isn't an available option for Online play in the 3DS version.


It's not always a cluster **** (can't say the same for Ice Climbers lol). And so what if it is? That doesn't mean you still can't pick the stages that you do like to play on. That abiltiy wouldn't be taken away from you if all the other stages would be made available.

Correct me if I'm wrong but a majority of the stages are around Battlefield size. I certainly don't know of a stage smaller in melee than something like Kirby's Dreamland, The beginning of Rainbow Cruise or Flat Zone.

When I say it won't work, I just mean it'll be way, WAY too chaotic.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

When I say it won't work, I just mean it'll be way, WAY too chaotic.

And what I keep saying is that you still retain the ability to pick the already available stages. The 'chaotic' stuff is all personal preference which is understandable........we all have personal preferences but that's as far that goes, they're personal preferences. If such stages being available to play on truly interferes with your preferred stages then that's something else.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Speaking purely from a processing standpoint, the smaller the stage the better. It's the big ones that would give the CPU trouble.

 

[Khao]

In some stages, eight players would make the game so chaotic it would be downright unplayable.

Imagine somebody playing the game for the first time chooses one of those stages. The game would likely be instantly ruined for them, and that's why they're leaving those stages out.

It's not about them being the evil fun police, it's about them making sure their game freaking works as intended in each possible scenario so it's as enjoyable as possible, if a specific scenario can't meet the standards they want their game to have, of course they'll leave that scenario out.

If a stage doesn't work well in a specific mode, taking it out of that mode is the only logical choice.

 

[Pit_Icarus]

Sakurai knows what he's doing. He's trying his hardest to make 8-player smash work, and the Wii U's limits prevent it from being able to process some stages with 8 players at once. Trying to get 8-player smash to work with every stage would take a lot of work and processing power of the Wii U, which could cause a lot of technical issues. Also, 8-player smash would be chaos on the servers Smash Bros uses to keep everyone online at the same time.

Bottom Line: There's only so much the Wii U and Sakurai can do with 8 players. Don't try to pressure him more because he's working his hardest.

Also, the original Gamecube can only support 4 players at a time, and i'm sure of it that the Melee video you showed is a hack of it performed on either a Wii or a powered-up PC playing a ROM of it.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

And what I keep saying is that you still retain the ability to pick the already available stages. The 'chaotic' stuff is all personal preference which is understandable........we all have personal preferences but that's as far that goes, they're personal preferences. If such stages being available to play on truly interferes with your preferred stages then that's something else.

No point in keeping stages where the game will be unplayable.

Game Design 101

 

[mikeyn1gm]

In some stages, eight players would make the game so chaotic it would be downright unplayable.

Imagine somebody playing the game for the first time chooses one of those stages. The game would likely be instantly ruined for them, and that's why they're leaving those stages out.

It's not about them being the evil fun police, it's about them making sure their game freaking works as intended in each possible scenario so it's as enjoyable as possible, if a specific scenario can't meet the standards they want their game to have, of course they'll leave that scenario out.

If a stage doesn't work well in a specific mode, taking it out of that mode is the only logical choice.

Ok, lets go with this logic. Why would a stage like Pilotwings, Final Destination and Coliseum be locked out?

No point in keeping stages where the game will be unplayable.

Game Design 101

So "unplayable" to you means that you don't like the way the match is set up with many characters on a certain screen or does it actually mean unplayable?

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Deleted Post

 

[Pit_Icarus]

Ok, lets go with this logic. Why would a stage like Pilotwings, Final Destination and Coliseum be locked out?

Allow me to try to give off reasons:
Pilotwings: The background changes constantly, and the plane tilts around a bunch.
Final Destination: A large amount of background images, and it's not exactly the best stage in terms of size.
Coliseum: I believe the platforms keep rising and falling, taking processing power off the Wii U to randomize them.

 

[Tyril132]

I hate to be "that guy," but as a developer in training, I want to talk for a minute about the business and logistical realities of what really goes on during development. Let's forget the gameplay considerations of whether other stages might be too small to be fun with 6+ players. Let's even forget about Nintendo's unwillingness to make changes to their policies or development practices based on petitions.

The game is set to launch in less than three weeks in North America and Japan. Even if the petition had 10,000 signatures tomorrow morning and Sakurai showed up to work with a copy on his desk - even if he went back on his current word regarding why he chose to restrict the stages - the features and content that are in the final version of the game have been locked in for weeks - if not months - and there isn't enough time for it to happen.

Software development follows a very controlled process of conceptual design, business considerations, systems design, programming, testing and analysis. Even with an agile approach to development (which has a faster iteration time and can make changes like this more easily,) it takes time to go through the entire cycle. I can promise you that the Wii U version dev team is in a serious time crunch right now, and just about everyone on staff is probably working overtime to get the last critical touches done in time to ship the final code off to manufacturing so you can play it on the 21st.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Sakurai knows what he's doing. He's trying his hardest to make 8-player smash work, and the Wii U's limits prevent it from being able to process some stages with 8 players at once. Trying to get 8-player smash to work with every stage would take a lot of work and processing power of the Wii U, which could cause a lot of technical issues. Also, 8-player smash would be chaos on the servers Smash Bros uses to keep everyone online at the same time.

Bottom Line: There's only so much the Wii U and Sakurai can do with 8 players. Don't try to pressure him more because he's working his hardest.

Also, the original Gamecube can only support 4 players at a time, and i'm sure of it that the Melee video you showed is a hack of it performed on either a Wii or a powered-up PC playing a ROM of it.

I can assure you that this was done on both a Gamecube and Wii. Are you implying that the Wii U is a weaker console? It already has 8 player Smash without losing fps and according to the gameplay here, Melee can handle 8 characters on screen as well on any stage so how can you make these assumptions factual? How do you know about the processing power limits and techincal issues?

I hate to be "that guy," but as a developer in training, I want to talk for a minute about the business and logistical realities of what really goes on during development. Let's forget the gameplay considerations of whether other stages might be too small to be fun with 6+ players. Let's even forget about Nintendo's unwillingness to make changes to their policies or development practices based on petitions.

The game is set to launch in less than three weeks in North America and Japan. Even if the petition had 10,000 signatures tomorrow morning and Sakurai showed up to work with a copy on his desk - even if he went back on his current word regarding why he chose to restrict the stages - the features and content that are in the final version of the game have been locked in for weeks - if not months - and there isn't enough time for it to happen.

Software development follows a very controlled process of conceptual design, business considerations, systems design, programming, testing and analysis. Even with an agile approach to development (which has a faster iteration time and can make changes like this more easily,) it takes time to go through the entire cycle. I can promise you that the Wii U version dev team is in a serious time crunch right now, and just about everyone on staff is probably working overtime to get the last critical touches done in time to ship the final code off to manufacturing so you can play it on the 21st.

Thank you for sharing. I apologize if I made it seem like a change it now thing. I thought there was a automatic safe implication for this change to be an action via patching if anything. The video and stuff was made now to bring out the awareness.

 

[Tyril132]

Edit: I see you just edited your post a minute ago to address this; sorry for effectively making this a double post.

 

[Pit_Icarus]

I can assure you that this was done on both a Gamecube and Wii.

You literally just gave a contradiction: It needs two systems to support 8-Player and all stages. The Wii U is trying to do it with one. Plus, the fact that it's Gamecube and Wii means it's a modded version and most likely needs two game copies, which means it's been worked on for months, years even just to get that in. Sakurai isn't a miracle worker, stop treating him like one.

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Coliseum: I believe the platforms keep rising and falling, taking processing power off the Wii U to randomize them.

Great Cave Offensive though.

 

[Captain Norris]

Ok, lets go with this logic. Why would a stage like Pilotwings, Final Destination and Coliseum be locked out?



So "unplayable" to you means that you don't like the way the match is set up with many characters on a certain screen or does it actually mean unplayable?

In Final destination, the background changes. It creates a lot more lag tha one would think.

 

[Pit_Icarus]

Great Cave Offensive though.

The Great Cave Offensive is a single stage without anything moving but the minecarts, and even then they move on a fixed path.

Do i need to explain why this is a stupid idea more than i'm already saying; Every stage can't be supported.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

You literally just gave a contradiction: It needs two systems to support 8-Player and all stages. The Wii U is trying to do it with one. Plus, the fact that it's Gamecube and Wii means it's a modded version and most likely needs two game copies, which means it's been worked on for months, years even just to get that in. Sakurai isn't a miracle worker, stop treating him like one.

Dude! I meant that it can be done on a Gamecube OR a Wii. lol my apologees if I was unclear

 

[Ravio_Yo]

The Great Cave Offensive is a single stage without anything moving but the minecarts, and even then they move on a fixed path.

It's enormous and it's got multiple interactive parts. That's going to affect the processing power a lot more than some platfroms.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

I'm having trouble replying to everybody.....don't think I ignored you or ran away.......I'm coming! lol

 

[Pit_Icarus]

Dude! I meant that it can be done on a Gamecube OR a Wii. lol my apologees if I was unclear

I've already stated it's impossible for either systems to handle 8 players, meaning it's hacked and had no time limit to perfect it. Sakurai and his team have a time limit to get this out: They can't complete this in one week, you know. And a simple patch won't just magically unlock all the stages.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

It's enormous and it's got multiple interactive parts. That's going to affect the processing power a lot more than some platfroms.

I didn't get to reply to the individual who mentioned the 3 stage explanation but there are "changing" or reactive stages available to play in 8 Player Smash.

I've already stated it's impossible for either systems to handle 8 players, meaning it's hacked and had no time limit to perfect it. Sakurai and his team have a time limit to get this out: They can't complete this in one week, you know. And a simple patch won't just magically unlock all the stages.

What do you mean by impossible? We all know Sakurai has a time limit, nobody ever said anything about his time limit or "whens"

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Deleted Post

 

[Pit_Icarus]

I didn't get to reply to the individual who mentioned the 3 stage explanation but there are "changing" or reactive stages available to play in 8 Player Smash.

That's most likely because it doesn't take as much processing power as a level that keeps randomizing what platforms are at what heights. Also, i'm the man who mentioned the 3 stages and why all of them couldn't work.

I'm sorry, i have to keep telling you why this won't work. I am trying to tell you, but you keep thinking it is. I'm trying to say it. It's not possible.

And Sakurai worked on Sm4sh ever since Kid Icarus: Uprising was released in 2012. The 8-Player hack in Melee could have been worked on as early as 2001. Melee had thirteen years to work on 8-player; Sakurai had 2. I'm sorry, Phoenix Wright, but you can't get out of this one.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

Ok, lets go with this logic. Why would a stage like Pilotwings, Final Destination and Coliseum be locked out?



So "unplayable" to you means that you don't like the way the match is set up with many characters on a certain screen or does it actually mean unplayable?

Unplayable in a way where it's too hectic to make sense out of anything at all.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

That's most likely because it doesn't take as much processing power as a level that keeps randomizing what platforms are at what heights. Also, i'm the man who mentioned the 3 stages and why all of them couldn't work.

I'm sorry, i have to keep telling you why this won't work. I am trying to tell you, but you keep thinking it is. I'm trying to say it. It's not possible.

And Sakurai worked on Sm4sh ever since Kid Icarus: Uprising was released in 2012. The 8-Player hack in Melee could have been worked on as early as 2001. Melee had thirteen years to work on 8-player; Sakurai had 2. I'm sorry, Phoenix Wright, but you can't get out of this one.

You explained why Coliseum wouldn't work which is a possibility but that still leaves many other stages available for 8 Player Smash which also includes the less reactive stages

The "hack" is composed of elements already included in the game disc. Nothing new or additional is added other than the access to such things as being able to play as Yellow Team in Team Battle, having access to the same 6 player slots we have seen in "Multi Man Melee" and many other things already within the game's data.

Unplayable in a way where it's too hectic to make sense out of anything at all.

That's not really unplayable. The video provided clearly shows playability. Not everybody has that perception. The option for you to pick other stages is still there.

 

[mikeyn1gm]

Deleted Post

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

You explained why Coliseum wouldn't work which is a possibility but that still leaves many other stages available for 8 Player Smash which also includes the less reactive stages

The "hack" is composed of elements already added into the game disc. Nothing new or additional is added other than the access to such things as being able to play as Yellow Team in Team Battle, having access to the same 6 player slots we have seen in "Multi Man Melee" and many other things already within the game's data.


That's not really unplayable. Not everybody has that perception. The option for you to pick other stages is still there.

You gotta take into account random matches too. This mode will appear in Classic Mode, Smash Tour (?), etc.

Having someone end up on an extremely tiny stage would kinda suck for them. They'd have lots of trouble trying to win.

Sure, you can remove some stages from the random selection, but that only proves small stages just aren't practical.

Just asking, but why is this such a problem anyway?

 

[mikeyn1gm]

You gotta take into account random matches too. This mode will appear in Classic Mode, Smash Tour (?), etc.

Having someone end up on an extremely tiny stage would kinda suck for them. They'd have lots of trouble trying to win.

Sure, you can remove some stages from the random selection, but that only proves small stages just aren't practical.

Just asking, but why is this such a problem anyway?

You can now choose the next stage for battle in the New Classic Mode for Wii U. Under the group of opponents, you will be able to see the shaded image of the stage where the fight will take place if you choose to challenge a specific group or foe. I'm pretty sure Smash Tour isn't meant to always be in your favor. Wouldn't you agree?

That same thing can be said for anybody who doesn't want to play on very large stages. "Practical" in this sense is measured by the individual or group of individuals in agreeance of stage selection and of course this won't be the same for everybody else.

The choice to restrict many stages is very questionable. Even with restrictions there are some stages me and others thought would be available for 8P to be honest


EDIT: btw heres a pic if you haven't seen it http://smashbros-miiverse.com/images/modes/wiiu/TS_classic.jpg