Smashchu's Roster Analysis

[Swamp Sensei]

Took us long enough.

A lot happened while you were gone.

Welcome back by the way,

 

[Frostwraith]

Bashing on others for having different opinions isn't exactly bright.
That means some people on this forum became more mature. It's good news.

 

[SmashChu]

I don't make assumptions, assumptions are made by fools.

-People are complaining about Chrom being a very bland addition, and he's not the most popular character from ether Super Smash Bros. or Fire Emblem fans.
-People deplore the idea of him replacing ether Marth or Ike.
-Popularity has little effect when it comes to inclusions with Fire Emblem characters. Marth is the only case where this could be a factor, but Roy and Ike were not included because of popularity.
-The success of Fire Emblem: Awakening is not going to automatically rectify the problems Chrom has.
-If Chrom doesn't have anything worth bragging about, it's not going to be worth the inclusion. He's no guarantee by any stretch of the imagination.

Your missing the big picture. People like him in both Japan and the west which means some fans do not have a problem of him being "bland." When I say, "you are making a pretty big assumption," it's because your idea is based on "People find Chrom bland." Some do. Obviously, a lot of fans don't as, like I said, he does well on polls and there is a lot of discussion about him. There are a lot of fan who want him rather than expect him. FE:A's success is just icing on the cake. Again, if he's so bland, why does he do well on polls? Why is he popular in Japan (from what we know).

 

[FlareHabanero]

He's doing so well because he's the current flavor of the month, and people are too stupid to realize that the polls for Super Smash Bros. are for character you want not expect. Lucina get's more support then Chrom for crying out loud!

Also, you seem to be ignoring the part regarding to how boring he is, and as you should know being a very underwhelming addition is not something that should be promoted. He could be even more popular then Sonic for all we care, but if he doesn't offer anything at all to the table, then the inclusion will be far more debated. Remember what I keep saying about popularity having very little influence on Fire Emblem choices, with only Marth that could fall under that. Roy was included because his Sword of Seals provided fire properties to make him standout from other choices as a possible Marth clone, while Ike was included because it was a suggestion and Sakurai took the opportunity to make a character to contrast Marth's light footed style of swordplay.

Chrom doesn't really have anything that makes him standout, so why include such a boring addition? Pretty sure Chrom wouldn't be a character that would attract people to the game if he's seen as nothing but an expy of Marth and Ike. Chrom also being introduced would also be a negative way of demonstrating Fire Emblem in Super Smash Bros. Having three characters that are very similar is not a bright idea from a design standpoint, especially considering there is much more colorful options available.

 

[buirac]

I would favor Chrom if it meant no Roy nor Ike will come back. Not talking about expectations here, but personal taste. Smashchu, if you agreed 4 characters are (way) too much for FE, would you prefer a new inclusion or the return of those two? Why?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Another Fire Emblem war has begun. I'm outta here! *jumps offscreen* *cue Sonic CD Game Over*

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

You'd not only flee quality entertainment, but give us that nightmare inducing game over music (U.S version)?

 

[volbound1700]

I have Lyn from FE series because she was an AT in the last game.

 

[Curious Villager]

Ugh Fire Emblem discussions again. Whatever, just PUH-LEEZE don't use the "He haz blue hair thus he can't be playable in smash" excuse when discrediting Chrom that I see getting thrown around every once in a while, because that reason to discredit a character is just as moronic and stupid as the "Ridley is too big" or "Skyward Sword/Wind Waker Link is too Cell Shaded" excuses people throw around (or used to throw around in Toon Link's case) if you ask me.

 

[peeup]

Regarding the above, the "blue hair" argument is not an argument by itself, and I don't think anybody thinks that it is. However, the fact that Chrom and Marth have similar (re: not identical, but similar) appearances, combined with the fact that he'd likely be

nothing but an expy of Marth and Ike

is just another reason for his potential inclusion cause some to cringe.

I personally don't want Roy either, because aside from the whole fire gimmick, he'd really just be what Chrom would be. Having red hair doesn't save him from having little potential for stand-out gameplay. I'd much, much, much rather have a mage, an archer, a lance user, anything but another swordsman. Micaiah will always have my vote as most deserving FE newcomer, but I don't know if that opinion is popular anymore.

 

[Curious Villager]

Their appearances don't look similar at all if you ask me. (unless I misunderstood your point)

Spoiler

Different Swords, different clothes, different appearances as a whole. The only thing they have in common is their hair colour, the fact their both male and I guess a few other things too. Chrom looks vastly different from either Marth or Ike if you ask me. :/ If we are afraid that he might be a clone or have a similar moveset to Ike and Marth, we honestly won't know unless he's actually revealed and Sakurai explains his moveset to us.

Roy honestly wouldn't be any better in terms of moveset potential as he'd probably likely be similar to how he was in Melee except with a further tweaked moveset as other Melee clones were in Brawl.

 

[peeup]

Agreed on the second point.

On the first point, I mean the general form of the character. Human male, sword, swashbuckling attire, cape, blue hair. Probably the fact that they're both human males that are swordsman with a blue theme is what scares people, and I think when people say blue hair, they are referring to what I just mentioned.

Take their appearances in contrast with any other two characters in the cast. The only 2 characters that I think share a comparable number of similarities are Mario and Luigi, but that can't be helped and I think there's no doubt in anyone's mind that they'll both be in.

 

[Curious Villager]

Hm... I guess, but some of these examples can't really be helped as even Roy has a number of these similar traits, besides the hair colour.

I honestly don't think hair colour should really be used to discredit characters. :/ I still think that it's a very poor argument to use against potential characters.

Well that and Link and Young/Toon Link I guess, but even in contrast to those guys Chrom looks vastly different in terms of appearance than them, even if it's a similar theme I guess. :/

 

[peeup]

Yeah I don't get why people want Roy so badly. To me, he's just as bad as Chrom. Red hair and fire are nowhere near enough to differentiate him enough to warrant a slot in SSB4.

T/YLink and Link walk the line of what is deserving and what isn't, IMO. Even though they are the same character, really, the different art style and the fact that they play vastly different from each other is good. In that same vein, I see Marth and Ike as pretty similar to that duo; they have enough appearance related differences, and their playstyles have nothing in common.

Chrom (or Roy, you can use them interchangeably in this argument) would not satisfy the above conditions. He is again, a human male swordsman with a blue theme and swashbuckling attire and a cape. Sure, the uniform is different, but he's about as similar to Marth and Ike as Marth and Ike are similar to each other. So he doesn't pass the "physical appearance test", no big deal as long as he has a very different playstyle. Which, in my opinion, he couldn't really. I haven't played Awakening so I don't know what kind of fun special shenanigans Chrom can perform. However, I don't really see how they could make another straight up swordsman be differentiated. We already have the nimble, tippering Marth, and his contrast in the slow, powerhouse Ike. As far as I can imagine, anything else would be an amalgamation of the two.

I'd much rather see a new playstyle. Like Micaiah.

 

[Curious Villager]

Agreed. Roy really isn't any better than Chrom. Since he would pretty likely be at least a Luigified/semi clone of Marth.

I'd imagine Chrom to be a bit of a middleground to what Marth and Ike are, I guess we will have to wait and see if Chrom is in smash after all and what he would be like since currently he's pretty difficult to predict IMO.

Honestly, both Roy and Chrom are on the same boat in terms of moveset potential and playstyle unless confirmed otherwise.

But yeah, I do agree overall. I'd prefer it more to see a Fire Emblem character who uses a completely different weapon, so I wouldn't mind seeing a character who uses a lance or an axe or something. But again, I really don't mind Chrom. I don't think he is boring or bland at all and I liked him in Fire Emblem Awakening. And I certainly wouldn't mind seeing him in smash.

Oh well in the end it's just opinions I guess.

You should play Fire Emblem Awakening when you get the chance though.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

When did it stop being cool to hate Smashchu?

We were hating on SmashChu?
My post isn't even the slightest thing of that.

thats what im saying. flavor of the week or veterans? Roy's the veteran, so I'm saying if FE gets a 3rd rep at all, place your bet on Roy. He was obviously planned, and people weren't very pleased with his exclusion.

No no no you completely missed what I was getting at. Also in all technicality there is no "Superior" choice - It's what Sakurai views it as for representation, which we don't know for 100% certain.

Also what you guys forget is a lot of the support for him (and mewtwo for that matter) happened waaaaaaaay later. A lot of the characters that made it into Brawl are ones that made it from Melee support or very early Brawl support.

There's a lot of other facts we're forgetting to take into account and the fact that FE: Awakening is all very debatable. If you have Lucina or if you have Chrom/My Avatar, it'd be interesting for sure.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

All we can say for certain for characters is for the returning ones, like I don't expect Meta Knight or Wario to leave. Yet, there are a few I don't feel absolutely certain for, as much as want to, that being Ike, Toon Link, and Lucario. Yet, I don't get why people think Ike is not going to stay when he has a unique move-set and the only people I can see going are clones. It would be a waste of move-set for Ike to disappear, and no one else can take his, because it references from his game.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well Mewtwo had a unique moveset and he was gone in Brawl (although due to time constraints I guess). We honestly wont know the fate of some characters while we can be certain of others, regardless if they have a unique moveset or not. All we can do is wait until the game is out and the full roster is revealed and hope some of our favourites will stay.

 

[peeup]

We were hating on SmashChu?
My post isn't even the slightest thing of that.

Wasn't saying that in reference to you. Back in the day nobody ever took what Smashchu said seriously. Just noting that times had changed for the better.

Also as I haven't commented on it yet, Lucina would be a better choice than Chrom or Roy IMO. At least she's female. I'd much much rather have someone else (oh, I don't know, like maybe Micaiah, or someone, I dunno, Micaiah would be pretty cool), but if its between Roy, Chrom, and Lucina, my preferred order would be Lucina>Roy>Chrom. But they're all pretty much in the same position. If only there was a choice that was female, not a swordsman, and still pretty relevant... I just wish someone like that existed (Micaiah) but I guess I can only dream (about Micaiah).

 

[Curious Villager]

??? When did I ever say that? I thought that was Thethirdkoopa... :/

And "At least she's female." Isnt that a little sexist? ^^;

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Well Mewtwo had a unique moveset and he was gone in Brawl (although due to time constraints). We honestly wont know the fate of some characters while we can be certain of others, regardless if they have a unique moveset or not. All we can do is wait until the game is out and the full roster is revealed and hope some of our favourites will stay.

Yeah, but Lucario can you move-set so very similar, Chrom doesn't use aether the same way or fight like Ike and Priam doesn't seem as likely, Lucario was the top dog of 4th pokemon. I just don't expect them being able to use the move-set on a different FE character, I mean you can tell if Zoroark (as unlikely as he is right now) gets in he will be a semi-clone.

 

[SmashChu]

Another Fire Emblem war has begun. I'm outta here! *jumps offscreen* *cue Sonic CD Game Over*

I'm not continuing. Sorry, Habanero, but I don't think we're going to say anything different. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well Mewtwo had a unique moveset and he was gone in Brawl (although due to time constraints)/quote]

...How are we even still fully sure of this? There's not even a single part in the Subspace Emissary where he would have made sense and that's where almost 50% of the development time went to.

Wasn't saying that in reference to you. Back in the day nobody ever took what Smashchu said seriously. Just noting that times had changed for the better.

Things in-general have been a lot better here, honestly. Ever since I started back posting in 2010 it's only moved uphill. I remember when I was the only person replying to EVERYONE.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah, but Lucario can you move-set so very similar, Chrom doesn't use aether the same way or fight like Ike and Priam doesn't seem as likely, Lucario was the top dog of 4th pokemon. I just don't expect them being able to use the move-set on a different FE character, I mean you can tell if Zoroark (as unlikely as he is right now) gets in he will be a semi-clone.

Sorry, I didn't really catch the first part, were you saying that Lucario's moveset is similar to Mewtwo's? While they do have similar neutral special and up and side smash attacks. That's really where the similarities ends with these two.

I honestly don't know what they would do with either Chrom or Ike so I will hold off talking about them.

I personally imagine Zoroark to have some more mind game type moveset going on since she's a pokemon who is specialized in illusions. So I don't think she would be a clone or semi-clone of either Lucario or Mewtwo, but again, I guess you never know... :/

Anything is possible I guess. If some characters from Brawl are gone, I don't think Sakurai would make new ones with similar movesets for them. But he might design some with a close to similar playstyle I guess.

...How are we even still fully sure of this? There's not even a single part in the Subspace Emissary where he would have made sense and that's where almost 50% of the development time went to.

Well if he apparently was last priority, I guess he'd have the same fate as Toon Link, Wolf and Jigglypuff. Also I believe it was mentioned on the Smash Dojo that a number of SSE cutscenes had to be cut too. So perhaps there were a few cutscenes with Mewtwo that were either cut or edited out. But of course there is no proof of this unless Sakurai tells us himself one day. (which I highly doubt he would.)

 

[Shorts]

Actually, the so called popularity is more like expectations over desires.

I'm glad you took it upon yourself to speak for everyone who voted for him.

 

[Deleted member]

@SmashChu:
Just spent the morning/afternoon typing this. Worth typing this since I really wanted to get it all out. I could summarize if this is too much to consume.
---
I believe that Mega Man is one of the very few third-parties worthy of consideration for a guest slot and I'd argue that he is the best choice out there.

Mega Man, if included, would be not only a more popular addition than Snake but also potentially as popular as Sonic's addition was in Brawl. Now being possibly as popular as Sonic's addition was in Brawl may sound crazy given how high of a bar he set for third-parties (although it could be argued that Snake set the standard), but it is achievable.

Let's consider the two inclusions first; Snake and Sonic. Both were extremely well-received additions that were highly popular with the Smash community, so much so that Sakurai has commented positively on their inclusions. However, their inclusions were not perfect as they came with issues (aside from Sakurai infamously commenting on the incredible difficulties of adding third-parties).

It should go without saying that Snake was added because Kojima practically begged for Snake's inclusion in Melee and he was the one third-party that was always meant to be in the game. Like said in the OP, it was obvious that Snake was treated as that one special addition and it's really the special treatment Snake got that made him so popular within the Smash community. However, despite his inclusion generally being a success, there were inevitably issues with his inclusion. The first thing is really the type of games he comes from. Snake comes from a world that is practically alien to the Nintendo world; a realistic stealth genre. He also faced the issues of not being able to use his guns in the game as a rule from Sakurai. As such, it's obvious why including Snake was an excruciating progress; because putting Snake in a relatively cartoonish platform-fighting game is something that can easily ruin his character. It was so difficult that Snake required disjointed box in order to fit in. The fact that Snake even got to be in Brawl is a miracle (although we could say that the roster in general is a miracle). Another thing is that while a lot of people loved him, he also faced a lot of objections. There's the inevitable dissenters of third-parties, but another thing to take into consideration is that Snake is generally synonymous with Sony platforms. When people think of Snake, most don't think of the sub-par NES Metal Gears port, the Twin Snake Gamecube remake or the 3DS Snake's Eaters remake, they think of the Metal Gear Solid games on the PSX, PS2 and PS3. Now don't get me wrong here, Nintendo history isn't relevant to a character's chance (which is why I consider the news of Tales of Symphonia remake going to the PS3 irrelevant to Smash), but it's undeniable that a large part of the objection for Snake has to do with him being mostly well-known for his non-Nintendo games.

Sonic was obviously included because of him being by far the most wanted character. When he was included, the gaming community pretty much exploded that Sonic was finally in. Sonic was one of the very most popular characters in the game and even more popular than Snake was. He along with Snake set the bar for third-parties exceptionally high. Yet like Snake, Sonic's inclusion wasn't perfect either. What kept Sonic from being the "perfect" addition was the fact that he was added so late to the game. Now it is true that Sonic was the most wanted guest before E3 2006, but the fact remains that Sonic simply was never going to be popular enough to add in. Before E3 2006, Sonic wasn't even in the Top 10 (it really doesn't matter that Sonic's popularity wasn't at it's full potential due to us not knowing that third-parties are possible, the fact remains that Sonic's popularity wasn't enough to get him in at the time). When Sakurai already struck a deal with Snake, what would make people believe that he would go through a painstaking process to add a guest character that failed to break into the Top 10 and didn't have companies trying to get him in? E3 2006 with Snake's reveal changed all that. Sonic became by far the most wanted character and the rest is history. However, the result of Sonic being a late addition is shown as he received much less work on him, which is shown by Sonic having practically no role in SSE and that there were no original remixes for Sonic (whereas Metal Gear had some remixes done specifically for the game). There were also a ton of criticism in regards to Sonic's move set being bland. All of these were a result of Sonic being added at literally at the last minute and Sonic's inclusion, while a fantastic move, could be significantly improved upon. It's for this reason why I believe that giving Sonic the Snake treatment could merit his return because his inclusion wouldn't be stale then.

Over five years since Brawl's release and we are at the cusp of Smash 4's unveil. Guest are now accepted by almost everyone in the community and most third-parties supporters are rallying for Mega Man's inclusions. Mega Man to this date looks to be likely the most wanted newcomer for this game worldwide (Shortie's poll indicates that Mega Man beats every other potential newcomer whereas ChronoBound's observation indicates Mega Man as probably the most wanted newcomer in Japan). There are reasons to believe why Mega Man might get in despite the odds.

The first thing to consider is the fitting in issues. Snake's inclusion was especially hard because of the realistic stealth-genre he was placed into; which would stick out like a sore thumb if placed with other Nintendo series (and he did despite his inclusion in Brawl being successful). Mega Man fits much better within Nintendo's world than Snake does since his series is a cartoonish action-platform game; much like how Smash is a platform-fighting game. Mega Man could be placed with other Nintendo series and it'd be like he fits right in. Sonic had to deal with being added literally at the last minute, so they had relatively little time to implement Sonic. Mega Man, if included, would be added much earlier (and perhaps even from the start), giving Sakurai and the team much more time to implement Mega Man. While Mega Man would still remain an extremely difficult addition by third-party nature, adding him early on would make it easier on Sakurai than Snake or Sonic would.

Another thing to consider is that if Mega Man is going to reach the same caliber of popularity as Snake and (more importantly) Sonic in Smash, Mega Man is going to need the Snake treatment. In other words, like Sakurai did with Snake, he will have to do as much as he can to make Mega Man's inclusion worth it. Including Mega Man as a last-minute character would end up having the "diminishing marginal utility effect" that you expressed as a concern in your essay on why you doubted third-parties but planning Mega Man from the start and giving him the Snake treatment can potentially rectify that. It would likely avoid the bland move set complaints that plague Sonic and Mega Man's much more relatively orthodox would go over better than Snake (and likely avoid disjointed hitbox as well if done right).

Finally, and this is the reason why Mega Man is even being discussed as a candidate, his massive popularity. While it is not on the same level as Sonic, Mega Man still performs well. Being likely the most wanted newcomer does help and is a big advantage other every other third-party character. Another thing to consider is that not only is he one of the most wanted characters but also one of the longest-running characters. Sakurai himself has noted Mega Man's popularity all the way back to pre-Melee time when Sakurai commented on Mega Man receiving a lot of requests overseas. What this means is that Mega Man has been requested for over a decade; before even Sonic became a popular guest request. No other third-party character can claim being highly requested nowadays that was popular pre-Melee. As a matter of fact, Ridley is the only character that was popular pre-Melee that is highly popular today. Also take into account the past few years, which to put it mildly, have been extremely difficult times for the Blue Bomber. Of course these events definitely don't help Mega Man's chances, but these past few years really shows how strong of a character Mega Man is. With most fan base, they would have toppled and collapsed with people moving on to support other characters, but the opposite effect has taken for Mega Man. The support for Mega Man has instead increased. Supporters want Mega Man in not only because of Mega Man's character, but also because they want assurance that the franchise will continue and not go into obscurity. The fire that lit up the support of Mega Man for almost all of it's fans have not been extinguished, but rather burn even more intensely with even more joining in. Along with Mega Man's iconic status, Mega Man is indeed a strong character, even for the incredibly high guest standard.

Mega Man, if in, would be one of the biggest additions to the game. He is undoubtedly the biggest third-party left with a realistic shot of getting in and he'd make a bigger addition than any potential newcomer (only Mewtwo would end up being a bigger addition). As a character, Mega Man is indeed strong. Probably the most wanted newcomer and being wanted ever since pre-Melee, being a video game icon and likely being an easier fit than Snake and Sonic can make Mega Man as popular of an addition as Sonic and Snake were if given the same treatment Snake was.

Whenever or not Mega Man gets in is a different story. Like every third-party, Mega Man has his negatives and there's a good chance he won't get in. However, when it comes to new third-party additions, there is no one else that compares to Mega Man (although that's not to say he's the only good choice, just the best) and I do believe there is a very real chance that he gets added. I'm very curious about what happens with guests for the next game, but Sakurai could pick pretty much any possible options that doesn't force Pac-Man upon us (in which case it'd be better to get rid of guests all together) and he'd do a good job (Mega Man, Layton and a Tales rep I feel would all make solid additions, although I only really care about Mega Man).
---

Yeah, but Lucario can you move-set so very similar, Chrom doesn't use aether the same way or fight like Ike and Priam doesn't seem as likely, Lucario was the top dog of 4th pokemon. I just don't expect them being able to use the move-set on a different FE character, I mean you can tell if Zoroark (as unlikely as he is right now) gets in he will be a semi-clone.

I really doubt Zoroark would be a semi-clone if he got in. The only remote similarities Lucario and Zoroark have is their designs and even then, Lucario is shaped more like an anubis while Zoroark is likely based on the kitsune (Japanese word for fox) of Japanese folklores. Their move sets are very much different from each other and Zoroark (along with Zorua) is known for the Illusion ability, which could be implemented really neatly if done right.

 

[Shun_one]

Just poppin' in to say you are a brave man to attempt to guess the Retro and surprise characters. Oddly enough, my roster and your own ended are quite similar, even if I have two rosters (one being my personal wishes, while the other is just a guess).At any rate, you've presented yourself well here, so good luck defending yourself going forward.

Also, every time you try to say "definitely" you wrote "defiantly" instead. Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well if he apparently was last priority, I guess he'd have the same fate as Toon Link, Wolf and Jigglypuff. Also I believe it was mentioned on the Smash Dojo that a number of SSE cutscenes had to be cut too. So perhaps there were a few cutscenes with Mewtwo that were either cut or edited out. But of course there is no proof of this unless Sakurai tells us himself one day. (which I highly doubt he would.)

Find this when it comes to the Dojo.

Also, I'll just say there's a chance at someone who worked on the game telling us once the lease is over. Will it happen for sure? No. Can it? Seeing that people blabbed about Melee and 64, yes.

 

[Curious Villager]

I guess I'll just take your word for it then thethirdkoopa.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Well if he apparently was last priority, I guess he'd have the same fate as Toon Link, Wolf and Jigglypuff. Also I believe it was mentioned on the Smash Dojo that a number of SSE cutscenes had to be cut too. So perhaps there were a few cutscenes with Mewtwo that were either cut or edited out. But of course there is no proof of this unless Sakurai tells us himself one day. (which I highly doubt he would.)

I guess you're referring to this: http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/modea/modea17.html

It simply states "The taking of the battleship Halberd, as well as the scuffle between King Dedede and Meta Knight, were not shown in the game, because those scenes unfortunately had to be cut.
So that’s the inside scoop for you."

As far as we know that's all that was cut.

 

[Curious Villager]

I guess you're referring to this: http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/modea/modea17.html

It simply states "The taking of the battleship Halberd, as well as the scuffle between King Dedede and Meta Knight, were not shown in the game, because those scenes unfortunately had to be cut.
So that’s the inside scoop for you."

As far as we know that's all that was cut.

Oh really? I could have sworn he said something along the lines of a number of scenes being cut. Oh well it's been a while since I last checked the Dojo. My bad then. ^^;

 

[peeup]

Lots of words

While I agree with everything you say, it doesn't particularly prove that Mega Man has a better shot of getting in than other third parties, say, Pac-Man. If you read through your entire post and replace Mega Man with Pac-Man, it is essentially unchanged. Of course after the precedent set in Brawl, third parties in general are more likely to get in. But what makes one third party more likely than another third party?

I'm of the belief that Namco will want to stick their "mascot" into the fray with Mario and Sonic, and so I think its hugely likely that Pac-Man will get a character slot. If there were to be another third party, I would put my money on Mega Man, no doubt. But I'm not sure if there will be another third party.

Sonic's entrance into Brawl was based solely on popularity and fan request. BUT that popularity/request was not because everybody in the world loves Sonic. The popularity stems from the age old (like, actually age old) rivalry between Mario and Sonic. There's very little that would have satisfied the gaming community more than having two rival mascots duke it out in a crossover fighting game. That is just such an amazing opportunity, everybody wanted it to happen. As such, Sonic was hugely requested.

Now Mega Man is getting requested. But... He's just Mega Man. Not that he isn't a hugely influential video game character, and not that tons of people wouldnt be elated if he was in Smash. Those are both true. But the Mario/Sonic rivalry is what led to Sonic's popularity. Mega Man's popularity is just for the sake of having another iconic character in Smash. Against the backdrop of the Nintendo universe, Mega Man just isn't important. Sonic has been competing with Mario in the industry for decades, and also in other crossovers at the Olympic Games. Mario and Mega Man have had zero interaction. Zero conflict. Zero rivalry. Everything that made Sonic a viable choice to include is not apparent in Mega Man.

As for Snake, that was just a favor for a friend. If whoever is in charge of Mega Man has a bromance with Sakurai, then I recant everything above. But to my knowledge, that isn't true.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Oh really? I could have sworn he said something along the lines of a number of scenes being cut. Oh well it's been a while since I last checked the Dojo. My bad then. ^^;

If there were scenes cut where a cut character was in I doubt he'd have mentioned it. There are probably more ideas that were cut, the two he mentioned were probably just the ones which got the farthest in development.

 

[Curious Villager]

If there were scenes cut where a cut character was in I doubt he'd have mentioned it. There are probably more ideas that were cut, the two he mentioned were probably just the ones which got the farthest in development.

Yeah I'm pretty sure you're right. Also, Goldenyuiitusin and I talked in another thread that there could have been a cut cutscene where Fox was disturbing Rayquaza in space by knocking him down to earth while trying to fly to the Battleship Halbert which could explain why Rayquaza was at the lake instead of at the ozone layer and suddenly attacking the fallen Arwing for no reason in that one Diddy Kong cutscene. Of course that's just speculation and theories with little to back it up but still.

So perhaps there were indeed more cutscenes that were cut but Sakurai just never mentioned them. :/

 

[N3ON]

Characters like Mewtwo would've been in the same category as Wolf, TL, and Jiggz, where they were more or less the "expendable" characters, and thus weren't included in the SSE, in case they had to be cut later or weren't added yet. It's unlikely Mewtwo ever had a part in the SSE, he probably just would've been randomly added like the other three.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Jeezus, this thread has more views and replies in a week than most threads here have in a year!

 

[AnOkayDM]

I'm of the belief that Namco will want to stick their "mascot" into the fray with Mario and Sonic, and so I think its hugely likely that Pac-Man will get a character slot.

Why? There's no reason at all to believe Sakurai's going to grant a slot to a Namco character just because they're working on the game. Hell, the roster was probably finalized before they were even brought in.

Against the backdrop of the Nintendo universe, Mega Man just isn't important.

>Implying Mega Man isn't important to Nintendo's history

The MM games are hugely important to Nintendo's past. So what if they never interacted? Neither did Snake and Mario. Hell, neither have Pac-Man and Mario.

Sakurai puts in characters who deserve spots. Why does Pac-Man? He's a gaming icon, but he's not as important to Nintendo as Mega Man is, and that matters more in a Nintendo fighting game.

I've yet to hear a good reason to believe Pac-Man will be in at all, much less over Mega Man.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well to be fair, Pac-Man was in those Mario Kart Arcade games. Not that I support him though. I'd much prefer Megaman too.

Not sure if Megaman was alongside another Nintendo character though.

 

[FalKoopa]

I was neutral on Pac-Man... until I saw that face. I'd rather not have him.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I was neutral on Pac-Man... until I saw that face. I'd rather not have him.

Yeah, I'm not too found of new pac-man if it was retro sure, but it's extremely unlikely. My most wanted 3rd parties are Megaman and Layton.