Smashchu's Roster Analysis

[FlareHabanero]

Not sure if Megaman was alongside another Nintendo character though.

Mega Man has not appeared in a video game together with a Nintendo character, though he did make appearances in the German Club Nintendo comics.

 

[Curious Villager]

Well I guess that's at least something. Is it an official one though?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Well I guess that's at least something. Is it an official one though?

It's club Nintendo, so I guess so

 

[Curious Villager]

It's club Nintendo, so I guess so

Well Nintendo of Europe is based in Germany so I guess so too... :/

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Mega Man has not appeared in a video game together with a Nintendo character, though he did make appearances in the German Club Nintendo comics.

Surprised Kirby isn't there when Megaman, Pit, and Link are.

 

[FalKoopa]

I certainly wasn't expecting to see Pit in that image.

 

[Frostwraith]

I certainly wasn't expecting to see Pit in that image.

Me neither. It was certainly surprising to see him there. I find it curious that Luigi's hat has a red L, instead of a green one.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I certainly wasn't expecting to see Pit in that image.

Keep in mind that Kid Icarus: Of Myths and Monsters was released in Europe roughly around the time that particular comic came out, which is also why he's sporting the design from that game.

 

[N3ON]

I wouldn't really put much importance into that comic crossover (in relation to Smash or anything)... but it's nice to see nonetheless.

Surprised Kirby isn't there when Megaman, Pit, and Link are.

It's fairly likely Kirby didn't exist (in Europe at least) at this point.

 

[SmashShadow]

Characters like Mewtwo would've been in the same category as Wolf, TL, and Jiggz, where they were more or less the "expendable" characters, and thus weren't included in the SSE, in case they had to be cut later or weren't added yet. It's unlikely Mewtwo ever had a part in the SSE, he probably just would've been randomly added like the other three.

I agree. The only part I could have seen him entering was at the end when Sonic showed up. Tabuu could have retaliated with his wings being broken and tried to attack Sonic and Mewtwo could have showed up and either hit him with a Shadow Ball or put up a barrier like he did in the movie.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I agree. The only part I could have seen him entering was at the end when Sonic showed up. Tabuu could have retaliated with his wings being broken and tried to attack Sonic and Mewtwo could have showed up and either hit him with a Shadow Ball or put up a barrier like he did in the movie.

With that though, I could see Roy being important to the story, most likely with either Marth's group or Lucas' group.

 

[SmashChu]

I added the last aappendix. Check it out! I think with this, I'm done speculating. It has been so long since the end of Brawl and we finally get an idea of what the next will be and who will be included. I put my credability on the line for this one. During Brawl, there were a lot of folks who calmored and spoke the common knowledge. In the end, they were wrong but still kept going after the roster was announced. With this game, I want to actually risk it all and see if I have the right idea. I could very well be wrong. Or I could be very right. Either way, I'm done speculating and what ever will be will be.

@SSBF: That's a good post. There isn't anything I have to say though I feel it fits better for the Megaman thread than here. I suggest posting it there too. People will like it.

Just poppin' in to say you are a brave man to attempt to guess the Retro and surprise characters. Oddly enough, my roster and your own ended are quite similar, even if I have two rosters (one being my personal wishes, while the other is just a guess).At any rate, you've presented yourself well here, so good luck defending yourself going forward.

Also, every time you try to say "definitely" you wrote "defiantly" instead. Just thought I'd let you know.

Thanks. Like I said, the best roster is your own. No roster is perfect until long after the game is out. People hated the Brawl roster but now it is considered almost perfect. I suspect there will be flake for SSB4's roster but everyone will come to love it. My roster being similar is no surprise. I always encourage people to, when making a realistic roster, think about those odd ball characters. Thanks for the support. Oh, and thanks for pointing out the misspellings. I may have to go back and change that.

 

[Neanderthal]

I added the last aappendix. Check it out! I think with this, I'm done speculating. It has been so long since the end of Brawl and we finally get an idea of what the next will be and who will be included. I put my credability on the line for this one. During Brawl, there were a lot of folks who calmored and spoke the common knowledge. In the end, they were wrong but still kept going after the roster was announced. With this game, I want to actually risk it all and see if I have the right idea. I could very well be wrong. Or I could be very right. Either way, I'm done speculating and what ever will be will be.

@SSBF: That's a good post. There isn't anything I have to say though I feel it fits better for the Megaman thread than here. I suggest posting it there too. People will like it.



Thanks. Like I said, the best roster is your own. No roster is perfect until long after the game is out. People hated the Brawl roster but now it is considered almost perfect. I suspect there will be flake for SSB4's roster but everyone will come to love it. My roster being similar is no surprise. I always encourage people to, when making a realistic roster, think about those odd ball characters. Thanks for the support. Oh, and thanks for pointing out the misspellings. I may have to go back and change that.

Correction: Noah's roster is perfect. (According to him).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

...Noah's roster?

 

[SmashChu]

Yeah, who is Noah?

 

[Neanderthal]

You guys are wise for staying out of the Roster prediction threads.
He's been the centre of attention for the past several days over there.

Meet Noah: "I'm one of the few people who understands how the process of making a SSB roster ACTUALLY works. So I would know better than you."
The roster includes characters like Ninten, Starfy, Erika, Sheriff, Karis and Ray while being stone cold sure that Palutena, Shulk and Ridley won't make it.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

You guys are wise for staying out of the Roster prediction threads.
He's been the centre of attention for the past several days over there.

Meet Noah: "I'm one of the few people who understands how the process of making a SSB roster ACTUALLY works. So I would know better than you."
The roster includes characters like Ninten, Starfy, Erika, Sheriff, Karis and Ray while being stone cold sure that Palutena, Shulk and Ridley won't make it.

...
I like you Neanderthal
also lol wow
no words

 

[AnOkayDM]

Erika?
D'you mean Eirika, who was in one FE game nine years ago, wasn't particularly good, and would bring almost nothing new to Smash?

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to see her, but it'd make more sense to either have her brother (a lance wielder) or both of them as a tag team. Nevermind that they definitely missed the boat by not being in Brawl.

FE aside, Noah sounds like a genius.

 

[Deleted member]

@SSBF: That's a good post. There isn't anything I have to say though I feel it fits better for the Megaman thread than here. I suggest posting it there too. People will like it.

Glad you liked it. Was worth getting it out if only because I wanted to say something in regards to third-parties and why I feel Mega Man might get picked. I will also post in the Mega Man thread.

@peeup: Will address the response when I get time.

 

[Bajef8]

Neanderthal, dont bring that guy onto this thread!

Super Smash Fan, I still have to disagree on the whole Mega Man thing because of what Sakurai has said. During interviews, he's stated that he can't start adding 3rd parties willy nilly because it ruins what the essence of what Smash is, a Nintendo brawler. Nintendo franchises. I 1/2 agree with Smashchu on his 3rd party argument. I think realistically, there will be none added, however, I do not think that Snake or Sonic will be cut. Cuts are very unfavorable among the Smash community, but I think Sakurai will stick to his guns on not being able to throw in too many 3rd parties, or even adding any at all. Yes you can say, "Well Snake & Sonic made it, so Mega Man should because he's so popular and could fit" but that opens the flood gates. Snake's inclusion undoubtedly opened the door for Sonic's last minute addition. I fear adding Mega Man will only do what Snake did for Sonic, and make it easier for 3rd parties to get in, like the "well if I did it for some 3rd parties, I have to add all the big ones to be fair" kinda thing.

However I do recognize that if one were to make it, Mega Man is probably the top with Lloyd Irving (can't discredit his huge Japanese popularity, look at FE).

 

[Neanderthal]

Neanderthal, dont bring that guy onto this thread!

What? Everyone loves that guy. Just look how popular he is.

Super Smash Fan, I still have to disagree on the whole Mega Man thing because of what Sakurai has said. During interviews, he's stated that he can't start adding 3rd parties willy nilly because it ruins what the essence of what Smash is, a Nintendo brawler.

Then the question then becomes what constitutes "adding 3rd parties willy nilly"? One per game? or a few per game?
You seem to be interpreting it as he will not add any at all.
I think he's just saying they have to be particularly well fitting and highly demanded characters.
I'm expecting one or two this time and would hardly think that constitutes adding them "willy nilly".

 

[peeup]

Then the question then becomes what constitutes "adding 3rd parties willy nilly"? One per game? or a few per game?
You seem to be interpreting it as he will not add any at all.
I think he's just saying they have to be particularly well fitting and highly demanded characters.
I'm expecting one or two this time and would hardly think that constitutes adding them "willy nilly".

I said this in my ramble a page or so back, but I'll try to be more concise and answer that question here. I believe what he means is that adding a character "willy nilly" means not having enough reason to add a character.

Reason to add Snake: favor for Kojima
Reason to add Sonic: huge uproar, age old Mario v Sonic rivalry
Reason to add Megaman: popular character

IMO, just being popular isn't enough to warrant entrance. You need a specific reason. Snake's was a personal reason, Sonic's was a historic(al?) reason. Megaman's just feels weak. Like people only want him because he's the next best choice for a third party, rather than him actually getting in on his own merit.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Nah, Sonic was raw popularity.

When I say that Sonic was extremely popular, that's an understatement.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Like people only want him because he's the next best choice for a third party, rather than him actually getting in on his own merit.

Funny you should say that, because essentially everyone I've seen who "wants" Pac-Man in actually seems to merely expect him, rather than really pushing for his inclusion.

Mega Man deserves a spot far more than the yellow ball, and there's more than just popularity to support his inclusion. Nevermind that there is a reason he's so popular. And let's not forget that Sonic's reason for inclusion was fan demand. He wouldn't have been added, or even really requested, if he didn't fit in. Likewise, Mega Man is hugely popular among the fans, and he would fit perfectly into a Smash game.

Again, what does Pac-Man bring to Smash? Would anyone even expect him if Namco people weren't working on the game? Namco being on the dev team doesn't really mean anything for their characters, seeing how Sakurai chooses characters.

And again, the roster was probably finalized before Namco came on board.

Reason to add Snake: favor for Kojima
Reason to add Sonic: huge uproar, age old Mario v Sonic rivalry
Reason to add Megaman: popular character

Reason to add Pac-Man: Namco's working on the game

Yeah, that's not a good or realistic reason at all.

 

[Curious Villager]

It's not just Pac-Man, Namco characters in general have become more "expected" when the news came that Namco were going to help. I wonder how big their support would have been had it not been announced that Namco was helping. Probably close to the same as they were during the Brawl days.

But I'm not really a huge fan of the "expected" and "wanted" arguments anyway so I'm not sure if I should have been the one to say that... :/

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Funny you should say that, because essentially everyone I've seen who "wants" Pac-Man in actually seems to merely expect him, rather than really pushing for his inclusion.

Mega Man deserves a spot far more than the yellow ball, and there's more than just popularity to support his inclusion. Nevermind that there is a reason he's so popular. And let's not forget that Sonic's reason for inclusion was fan demand. He wouldn't have been added, or even really requested, if he didn't fit in. Likewise, Mega Man is hugely popular among the fans, and he would fit perfectly into a Smash game.

Again, what does Pac-Man bring to Smash? Would anyone even expect him if Namco people weren't working on the game? Namco being on the dev team doesn't really mean anything for their characters, seeing how Sakurai chooses characters.

And again, the roster was probably finalized before Namco came on board.



Reason to add Pac-Man: Namco's working on the game

Yeah, that's not a good or realistic reason at all.

I'm not going to say it's guaranteed there will be a Namco character, but there is a pretty solid chance.

My vote goes to Lloyd Irving. Pac-Man is not a great choice in my opinion. I think he would be better suited as an Assist Trophy that turns everyone into ghosts and damages them.

 

[AnOkayDM]

I just don't think them working on the game makes a character much likelier, if at all. Characters will still get included based solely on their own merit; I don't see Sakurai including any more characters as favors, nor as rewards.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Nah, Sonic was raw popularity.

When I say that Sonic was extremely popular, that's an understatement.

I think you mean "The biggest understatement I've ever said"

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Yeah, I don't even like Pac-man, I'm starting to regret my vote for him on the group roster, I'll switch it Layton. What would the yellow ball's move-set be, from what I played of his newer games he doesn't have move-set potential, now Megaman on the other hand has many options for a move-set and is quite popular. Pac Man isn't as popular as he was during the arcade days, Now people just forget about him.

 

[Bajef8]

Nah, Sonic was raw popularity.

When I say that Sonic was extremely popular, that's an understatement.

This exactly what I'm trying to say. Snake got in as the favor, which opened the floodgates of fans. Sonic's popularity was much more massive than Mega Man's, plus the old rivalry of Sega/Nintendo, thereby giving him and securing him that shot for inclusion. Thus Snake being in is a large reason people expect "based on popularity" 3rd parties, cuz if Snake got in, why not the ever popular, Sonic, Mega Man, etc....They've gotta warrant more than just popularity now. That's what willy nilly means.

 

[Deleted member]

It's not just Pac-Man, Namco characters in general have become more "expected" when the news came that Namco were going to help. I wonder how big their support would have been had it not been announced that Namco was helping. Probably close to the same as they were during the Brawl days.

But I'm not really a huge fan of the "expected" and "wanted" arguments anyway so I'm not sure if I should have been the one to say that... :/

It's really just Pac-Man here. Tales supporters, while in much smaller numbers in the West, are generally much more dedicated towards seeing one happen (especially Lloyd in which the Western fan base has mainly clinged to). The only reason why a Tales rep is less requested than Pac-Man in the West is because of the series's relative nicheness; in Japan, ChronoBound has mentioned very strong demand for one; meaning that a Tales rep would be in the Top 10 for sure if the Tales series enjoyed similar success outside of Japan. While support for Pac-Man has increased; a lot of it is basically either expectations or supporting Pac-Man because of his iconic status and not because of his character.

In a way, the Namco situation is like the Zoroark vs. Victini situation (Pac-Man is like Zoroark but less requested and a Tales rep is like Victini); except that a Namco rep actually has a shot of getting in.

More to say on this later, although it's best we take this discussion to the third-party thread so that SmashChu doesn't lose his thread again.

 

[peeup]

to add Pac-Man: Namco's working on the game

Yeah, that's not a good or realistic reason at all.

Perhaps what I said about Pac-Man was misleading. I do NOT want him in Smash, AT ALL. He is bland, has **** moveset potential, etc. As far as third parties go, Sakurai says that it's a pain in the ass to add any at all due to red tape and such. Presumably, it would be easier to work with Namco b/c they're already part of the deal. Ergo, Pac-Man would not be brought on as a favor or reward to Namco. He would be brought on because he basically is the mascot of nostalgic videogames, and it wouldn't be difficult to work with Namco. HOWEVER, I did not know that Namco was brought on so late into the project. So yeah, Pac-Man ain't gonna happen. If he was as heavily requested as Sonic, maybe. But he isn't, like, at all, so no.

Doesn't change anything I said about Mega Man though.

And I just find it really hard to believe that Sonic got in on "raw popularity." Saying that Sonic is the most popular video game character that wasn't already in Smash seems like a weighty statement that may or may not be true. What is definitely true is that everybody who knows anything about gaming history knows and loves the Mario/Sonic rivalry. And that's what got him in. Huge popularity IN RELATION TO the Nintendo universe. Mega Man is hugely popular, but NOT in relation to the Nintendo universe. If that makes sense.

EDIT: More than likely we'd see a Pac-Man stage. Well maybe not more than likely. But possibly.

 

[AnOkayDM]

But it doesn't change what I said about the Blue Bomber either. He remains important to Nintendo's history (not as much as Sonic, but far more so than Pac-Man), he is highly popular among Smash fans, and while this by no means guarantees anything, Sakurai has commented on the possibility of a Capcom character, who would most likely be Mega Man.

I get what you're saying. I just disagree that Pac-Man is likely. I think Snake's gonna be the only "favor" character and all other third-parties will be considered based on who they are, not who created them. I don't see much reason to include Pac-Man; weirdly, I think his best chance would be as kind of a semi-retro character. If a Namco character gets in, there are others who would be better choices.

I don't want him, but more than that I just find arguments for him weak and see little to no reason to include him.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Also the blue bomber had the ten original Megaman's on the Snes. With that, it seems that a bunch of those Megaman games are ending up on the E-shop, there even up to MM 6. This is just a small taste of how many games were affiliated with Nintendo. Sure, Pac man's more recognizable, but how exactly would he play. Megaman is still well known, albeit not as much as Sonic or Pac Man, and has a variety of move-sets to go by, and who wouldn't love a Proto Man AT, or altenate costume.

 

[peeup]

I did not know that Namco was brought on so late into the project. So yeah, Pac-Man ain't gonna happen. If he was as heavily requested as Sonic, maybe. But he isn't, like, at all, so no.

I don't think Pac-Man is likely either at this point. Frankly I think it is unlikely that we will get any more third parties. Will I be surprised if Mega Man gets in? No, not really. Will I be surprised if any other third party gets in? Yes, extremely.

Also for what it's worth, I've never played a Mega Man game so I'm pretty indifferent towards his inclusion. The only 3rd party that I would actually want to see in is Sora. And he has just slightly better than absolutely ****ing horrible chances, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

But holy cow I would buy 50 copies of Smash 4 is Sora was in it as a thank you to Sakurai.

 

[Bajef8]

I don't think Pac-Man is likely either at this point. Frankly I think it is unlikely that we will get any more third parties. Will I be surprised if Mega Man gets in? No, not really. Will I be surprised if any other third party gets in? Yes, extremely.

Also for what it's worth, I've never played a Mega Man game so I'm pretty indifferent towards his inclusion. The only 3rd party that I would actually want to see in is Sora. And he has just slightly better than absolutely ****ing horrible chances, so I'm not getting my hopes up.

But holy cow I would buy 50 copies of Smash 4 is Sora was in it as a thank you to Sakurai.

well Mega Man and Lloyd both have the best chances of 3rd parties. I keep saying it's either 1 of them or no one. Lloyd's Japanese popularity is large and look what Japanese popularity did for FE. Plus Lloyd has the Namco relation. So if it's either of them, no surprise. Sora? YES.

 

[Neanderthal]

Interesting how the anti-Pacmanites insist a third party must be someone who is highly demanded and has a history with Nintendo regardless of political connection.
Yet Snake was not demanded, has relatively very little history with Nintendo and got in almost purely for political reasons. And his political reasons were alot weaker than what Pac has now.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm just against Pac-Man because we already saw him in SFxT (Which would be the less awkward he would be) and even there it was just meh, while Tales of characters have proved to have a fantastic arsenal, some of the most moves most characters have in all of gaming, and flow not only into fighting games but all sorts of other spin-offs perfectly

But hey if it's Pac-Man from SFxT I wouldn't mind.

 

[Curious Villager]

It's really just Pac-Man here. Tales supporters, while in much smaller numbers in the West, are generally much more dedicated towards seeing one happen (especially Lloyd in which the Western fan base has mainly clinged to). The only reason why a Tales rep is less requested than Pac-Man in the West is because of the series's relative nicheness; in Japan, ChronoBound has mentioned very strong demand for one; meaning that a Tales rep would be in the Top 10 for sure if the Tales series enjoyed similar success outside of Japan. While support for Pac-Man has increased; a lot of it is basically either expectations or supporting Pac-Man because of his iconic status and not because of his character.

Oh no I wasn't implying that Namco characters are "expected" but "not wanted". That's why I didn't put the "not wanted" part in my first paragraph.

I was just saying how a Namco character in general has pretty much become expected (That doesn't necessarily mean their not wanted though, mind.) since most people were mainly rooting for Megaman and a Namco character wasn't really in that many people's minds until they found out that they were helping out.

I guess I should have worded my message a little better. My apologies.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Interesting how the anti-Pacmanites insist a third party must be someone who is highly demanded and has a history with Nintendo regardless of political connection.
Yet Snake was not demanded, has relatively very little history with Nintendo and got in almost purely for political reasons. And his political reasons were alot weaker than what Pac has now.

And there's no reason to believe a character being included as a favor wasn't a one-time deal.

The criteria for third-parties getting in this time around will be stricter, and frankly, I think if either third-party character from Brawl gets cut, it'll be Snake. He has flimsy reasoning for being in the game, and Pac-Man's reasoning isn't really much stronger.

Mega Man is a better and far likelier choice for a third-party rep than Pac-Man, I feel, and there are even other Namco characters who would be better choices than the yellow ball.


Also, I'd love to see Sora in this game, though I'd much rather have Roxas, even as a costume.