SmashCAP 4: Concept Poll

[Firus]

In-depth descriptions of each concept are here.

Concept: Stall-breaker
Analysis: Since the ban of Salamence, stall has become very popular in the metagame. There are good mixed attackers like Infernape who do a good job of stopping stall, but I don't think there is a pokémon who does the job perfectly. I'll admit that I don't know everything about stalling, but I think a fast poison type with perish song/taunt would be cool to use to combat the stall. I know you don't like ability talk at this point, but Cloud Nine would be a good ability for it.

Concept: Anti-Hax
Analysis: Hax is something that everyone and their mother complains about. It ruins what could be good games, a freeze comes in, Jirachi flinches through three of your Pokemon, a miss decides the game or a crit turns the entire tide of a match-up, or possibly TWave decides that you really need to stay para'd while your opponent gets a +6/+6 DDMence. Why not have a Pokemon that you could switch into all this oncoming hax and prevent it from ever happening? Something that could absorb that TWave, and stop flinch fests, or prevent moves from missing? This would take an extremely complicated combination of moves, stats, and abilities, but if done right this could be exactly what the metagame is looking for.

Name: Reliable Status Inficter

Analysis: The Pokemon games possess many different status inflicting moves, from Thunder Wave to Toxic, Hypnosis to Will-O-Wisp. There are very few Pokemon which have access to a wide variety of status inflincting moves, and even fewer who can pull it off successfully. Most status moves suffer from a lack of reliability: 75 is a normal stat for a status inflicting move not named Thunder Wave or Confuse Ray.

However, there are several abilities which help boost accuracy or increase the chance of a move's secondary effect activating. For example: Compoundeyes. This ability raises all of the Pokemon's attack accuracy by 30%, which eliminates the unreliable accuracy troubles of moves like Sleep Powder and Will-O-Wisp. No Guard also stands out, raising the accuracy of all moves to 100%. Serene grace would be an interesting addition if we wanted this CAP to go a more offensive route.

With a good speed stat and a reasonable amount of defense, the Reliable Status Inflicter would have no problem outrunning and crippling a Physical sweeper with a burn, or prevent a wall from setting up. In theory, a reliable status inflicter could plug your team's weak spots.

Extra: I'm pretty sure there's no other Pokemon which fills this role successfully. I've seen dual status sets on plenty of UU and NU sets, but I'm not sure how well they work, if it all. It's a cool idea, I think, and has interesting potential in the competitive scene.

Balancing it could be tricky. Would super-fast status moves be broken?
Would increased accuracy on a Pokemon with strong offensive stats be too good?
Would a Pokemon like this even be useful, or just an interesting novelty?

Name: Psych Up Abuser

Analysis: The ability to raise stats in the metagame is always something you strive for, weather it be Agility to out speed and sweep, DD for GDos or TTar or Curse for any slow but bulky physical attacker. But what if you could use their gain to your advantage? Come in and steal their boosts and retaliate with your own attack to scare them away. Let them do the work for you.

Name: Anti-Trap

Analysis: Pursuit sucks, Wynaut sucks, getting your scizor killed by magnezone sucks, etc. Essentially this pokemon would make trappers much less viable. One possbile option would be to use trace to trap Magnezone and dugtrio and then turn them into set-up bait. Another option is to counter trappers and pursuiters so that if they did trap and kill one of your pokemon then they'd be put at a sizable disadvantage.

I imagine this pokemon would be only mediocre without the prescence of an enemy trapper.

Name: Flying Immune SR

Analysis: Most flying types are hurt pretty bad by the prelevance of SR. Their use is no where close to as good if SR is in play (prime example, Staraptor). Making a Flying type poke immune to SR could seriously shake things up as it now has no fear of switching in because of SR, let alone having a secondary Flying type is not a bad defensive typing.

Concept: Sunnyside Up
Analysis: Face it. Sunny Day sucks in the OU metagame. Sandstorm has Tyranitar, and benefits a bunch of appropriate Pokemon. Hail has Abomasnow and to a lesser extent Walrein, Froslass, and Mamoswine. Rain became a dominant force by Kingdra itself, and not only that but there are more viable sweepers under the Rain such as Kabutops and Ludicolo, etc. The problem with Sunny Day is that the benefits are just too wrongly distributed. Grass-types who through Cholorphyll benefit the most from Sunny Day and Solarbeam are absolutely murdered by the 50% boost in Fire-type attacks. The Fire-type Pokemon who enjoy the said boost will also gain a 50% resistance to Water-type attacks, but lack the Speed increase. How could we craft such a Pokemon so that it gains the benefits of Sunny Day, while keeping it viable in the metagame?
Extra: Taking note, this is basically a "Kingdra in the Sun" concept. A Pokemon who through typing, ability, and stats would be able to fully abuse the weather and benefits of Sunny Day.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Thanks for getting this up again, Firus.

Poll closes 8/3 @ 9:30 PM Eastern

 

[Metal~Mario]

I really don't like any of these concepts.

But Sunnyside Up seems to have the biggest impact/most potential.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

You guys would really vote for your own concepts, UltiMario and Mood4Food. Disappointing. You didn't like any of the other concepts at all?

 

[mood4food77]

we could only vote once
i almost voted for sunnyside up, but it's still just as limiting as every concept pretty much

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I don't mean to try and defend my own concept, but how are Sunnyside Up, Reliable Status Inflicter, etc. restricting? Aside from perhaps some moves, what is exactly limiting for them? Typing is not mentioned, abilities are not mentioned. I just want to know your viewpoint.

 

[mood4food77]

sunnyside up is just asking for a fire/grass poke with either chlorophyll or flash fire

reliable status abuser usually means a bad typing

anti-trap...just doesn't sound like it's going far

we already have stall-breakers in infernape, starmie, etc

lilibelle already is out anti-hax (even though it wasn't meant to be)

psych-up abuser is really hard to acheive without making it broken

and flying immune to SR is really limited but it was my idea, so i voted for it

 

[Terywj [태리]]

How are you to be predicting every single end-product of each concept submission?

 

[mood4food77]

it's not really predicting them
it's just what i think when the concept is said

it's what came to mind, and almost all of them have something in the metagame that already does that, we need new stuff

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Then which Pokemon is a strong, competitively viable sweeper under and on Sunny Day?

 

[mood4food77]

STOP THROWING ME UNDER A BUS!!!!

GAHHHHHHH!!!

i didn't choose sunnyside up because it wasn't mine, that's really the only reason why i didn't choose it

we have lilibelle as the sunny day user and jumpluff as a possible abuser
soo...we have a semi concept filled, but not really

 

[Zook]

reliable status abuser usually means a bad typing

Like who? Butterfree? Butterfree isn't exactly a viable Pokemon in OU. Sure, he can be a cool lead, but that's about it.

I voted for Psych Up abuser. I hate nothing more than losing to a boosted up Gyarados or Tyranitar, and think that it would be a cool Pokemon if we could pull it off. Probably involve some solid defensive typing, but meh offensive stats.

 

[mood4food77]

that's just my problem with it, it needs to be really friggen good defensively so it doesn't get 2HKO'd by anything
then it has to be faster than everything in order to use it

it would be lilibelle on crack

 

[Wave⁂]

Time to get to work.

sunnyside up is just asking for a fire/grass poke with either chlorophyll or flash fire

Your point being?

reliable status abuser usually means a bad typing

Unless... WE GIVE IT GOOD TYPING
HOLY ****
DIDN'T SEE THAT ONE COMING

we already have stall-breakers in infernape, starmie, etc

Infernape falls to Tentacruel, Hippowdon, bulky Rotoms, Gyarados, and other stuff. Starmie doesn't break stall.

psych-up abuser is really hard to acheive without making it broken

How about we make it not broken?

and flying immune to SR is really limited but it was my idea, so i voted for it

Voting for your own idea because it is yours.

Great plan.

 

[mood4food77]

i dunno, i just don't like psych-up abuser at all

what's wrong with voting for my own idea...like ulti did

 

[Wave⁂]

i dunno, i just don't like psych-up abuser at all

Great reason.

what's wrong with voting for my own idea...like ulti did

You put no thought into your vote.

 

[mood4food77]

holy crap...

does it really matter that i voted for my submission

i literally sat and and voted out each concept, going down to my concept and sunnyside up, which pretty much came into a tie, so i decided to go for my own concept

does it really matter that i voted for my concept

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Exactly. You as well as UltiMario selected your own concept because (a) it was your own concept and (b) you "just don't like" the other concepts is such a supportless claim. The next time this happens you should just not vote.

 

[mood4food77]

i'm still confused as why it matters

we obviously gave a thought, as we wouldn't have given a concept if we didn't

you pick the concpet you like the most, if you don't like it, just don't vote for it

isn't that what a vote is?

 

[Zook]

It isn't that it matters so much as it's just a kinda douchey thing to do.

 

[mood4food77]

we should probably make these private votes in the future so this doesn't happen again

 

[CRASHiC]

Actually, it does matter here because we are such a small community.

 

[mood4food77]

still not helping the case

you ask for concepts, we all put out suggestions

you then make a poll taking all of the suggestions then ask us to vote which one each of us want the most

and because i voted for mine, you guys are throwing a hissy fit for "being selfish" and not voting for the "right" one

i don't get it, you can't limit what a person votes for except by limiting his choices

so in reality, it doesn't matter what concept a person votes for, just that he or she voted

 

[CRASHiC]

No, it does matter when our group size is so small. If we allow people to vote for their own, then no one wins.

 

[mood4food77]

then you shouldn't allow it, really, there was nothing saying that you couldn't vote for you own

so, stop complaining about it

 

[Wrath`]

I voted for Sunny SIde up as I like eggs, it would be cool to run a synergistic sunny day team in OU

 

[Wave⁂]

we should probably make these public votes in the future so this doesn't happen again

Fixed. Sheesh, logic.

 

[mood4food77]

i meant so you can't see where each person votes...it already is a public vote i thought

 

[Wave⁂]

i meant so you can't see where each person votes...it already is a public vote i thought

If we keep it public, then this whole thing won't happen again.

 

[mood4food77]

i don't think you get what i'm saying

i'm saying make the votes private

this all started because me and ulti voted for our own submissions without "some consideration for others"

make it so you can't see who voted for what, and this problem never arises

 

[Moozle]

Why wasn't CRASHiC's idea added into this? I thought it was a serious submission, and it was my favorite by far. I'm going to vote for Sunny Side Up if it's not added, but I'll wait a bit to see a reply

 

[JOE!]

question about the Smash CAPs:

can abilities be created from scratch for this?

 

[UltiMario]

So far?

No.

In the future? (Like caps 7, that far forward)

MAYBE.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

No, the point of keeping it to a public poll system is to ensure nobody self-votes in the future. And as a general heads-ip, I'm going to running this SmashCAP much faster, because we need to complete it before or around the time of Pokemon Black and White.

 

[UltiMario]

I'll defend my vote, BTW. Since it's a wall of text....

Spoiler

We already have reliable stallbreakers. Zook's entire introduction was for the sole reason, to have an extremely powerful Special attacker capable of breaking through common walls, including Blissey. As well as legal Mence, and possibly Latias or Wynaut, Stall isn't that much of an issue.

Exeggutor is now serving the reliable status inflicter role, believe it or not, even with only re-balancing stats, Exeggutor would still end up with a similar, if not greater BST than this CAP. With his compoudeyes as well, it's almost not worth it. Lol at NU to OU ruining this.

Lol Psych Up. The idea of a Pokemon reliant on another for boosting is so unreliable that it simply would make an NU Poke.

Anti-trap is a concept that's near impossible to even wrap your head around, seeing as when your foe traps you, you can't do **** about it, all anti-trap would be just an abuser of common trappers, and just SCREAMS for sets to be ran simply to take it down.

Sunny day is completely hopeless without MULTIPLE good Sunny Day Pokemon (which Rain Dance has), one isn't going to fix it. Ever. Even if Kingdra was only half as good as it is now, Rain would still be eons better than sun with stuff like Kabutops. This idea would require about 3-5 more fixes of Pokemon in NU to OT to make them amazing in Sunny day for this idea to work, which isn't exactly a bad thing, but... this reliance is... eh...

Out of the two left, I quite honestly like Anti-hax for finally having a good answer to Jirachi (yeah, there's bulky waters and Tran, but we all know getting those TWaved or Flinch hax'd to death aren't fun) and the like. There's a reason why I suggested it, it's because I put good thought into it, and even got a friend to help me out with the theorymon for it; we agreed that the idea could work, so I felt it was worth the vote. On the other hand, I like the Anti-SR flying because there's simply tons of really unique ways you can actually go at the idea. From a Fire/Flying with Magic Guard based on Ra to a Ground/Flying that focuses on heavy offensive power, to a pure Flying type Wind Elemental. I voted for mine over m4f's though because mine brings a new Niche to the metagame, while M4f's, while unique, doesn't exactly bring in that same new Niche.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Riddle also self-voted, didn't he? God****it.

 

[mood4food77]

i honostly don't see what the problem is for self voting, we go through a process, yea we might be a little biased but we have our reasons

 

[Wave⁂]

flying immune to SR is really limited but it was my idea, so i voted for it

1. You gave an excellent reason to not vote for Flying with Stealth Rock immunity.
2. You ignored it and voted for yourself regardless.

Any more stupid questions?

 

[mood4food77]

i gave a better reasoning later...

 

[CRASHiC]

i honostly don't see what the problem is for self voting, we go through a process, yea we might be a little biased but we have our reasons

because of the incredibly limited size of our community, I don't know how clearer I can make this. Its like in a country of 5 people, and 3 of them run for president.