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Smashboards Community Voted Tier List: Version 4 COMPLETE! Break for a few months...

Bowserboy3

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Captain Falcon's dash to shield is actually pretty bad (It is frame 15 while the average dash to shield is around frame 10-11). In addition, the forward movement from the dash to shield occurs with other characters as well. While he has great mobility, it isn't enough to make projectiles counterintuitive unless the opposing character has bad projectiles.
When referring to dash to shield, I was more referring to the slide Falcon gets, along with the fast and long distanced initial dash he gets. I know it's a little longer (in terms of frames before you can shield) than most, but if say, it was still longer and he had a poor dash speed and/or little slide, then yeah, it would be bad.

The combined traits of Falcon's long distance for a foxtrot, the speed of it, and the slide he gets after make his dash to shield quite effective, despite the frames it takes for him to pull up his shield being a little longer. I was more reffering to, say, if Falcon is playing against a fireball spamming Mario for example, he might only need to dash to shield 1 or 2 of the fireballs before he's in Mario's face, where as slower characters with less useful dash to shields, like Ike, or Corrin, or Olimar, for example, who might have to shield 3 or 4 fireballs.

But actually, where did you find this data? I was after some of this data just the other week for a few other characters, but couldn't find it anywhere. Could you show me/link me to where you found this out? I'd appreciate it.

Also, thanks for the votes!
 

Frihetsanka

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I've been wondering what to do with Ness. His MU chart is not that impressive, and he doesn't have the best theory, but then I look at his results. 17th place recently is not bad at all (source: https://smashboards.com/threads/tournament-placing-database-scoring-project.437773/).

This is with FOW and Shaky inactive and NAKAT not playing Ness as often anymore. I took a look of FOW's old results and Shaky's old results and they were quite impressive. Granted, those were old results, but the new results aren't bad either. With this in mind I think Ness should be considered somewhat of a "bottom" Lower High tier character. So, I want to counter the downvotes and keep him in tier 3. In order to do that I'll have to change one of my votes.

Assuming my vote-count is correct, I could change either my Lucina vote or my Zero Suit Samus vote without changing the results. I will, for the time being, change my Zero Suit Samus vote. If someone would upvote Zero Suit Samus without simultaneously downvoting Lucina I'd change my vote to reflect this, but for now:

I'm changing my Zero Suit Samus upvote for a Ness upvote (to keep him in tier 3).
 

Djmarcus44

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When referring to dash to shield, I was more referring to the slide Falcon gets, along with the fast and long distanced initial dash he gets. I know it's a little longer (in terms of frames before you can shield) than most, but if say, it was still longer and he had a poor dash speed and/or little slide, then yeah, it would be bad.

The combined traits of Falcon's long distance for a foxtrot, the speed of it, and the slide he gets after make his dash to shield quite effective, despite the frames it takes for him to pull up his shield being a little longer. I was more reffering to, say, if Falcon is playing against a fireball spamming Mario for example, he might only need to dash to shield 1 or 2 of the fireballs before he's in Mario's face, where as slower characters with less useful dash to shields, like Ike, or Corrin, or Olimar, for example, who might have to shield 3 or 4 fireballs.

But actually, where did you find this data? I was after some of this data just the other week for a few other characters, but couldn't find it anywhere. Could you show me/link me to where you found this out? I'd appreciate it.

Also, thanks for the votes!
It is true that Captain Falcon's grounded mobility makes dashing into shield a better strategy than his dash to shield startup would suggest, but Corrin and Olimar get more from dashing into shield at longer ranges since the mobility disadvantage that they have is cancelled out by their own range. The fact that it takes a shorter time for their shields to come out allows them to block projectiles and disjoints when Falcon's shield comes up too slowly to block the move (This can be mitigated with good timing, but there are more cases where Captain Falcon players would have to predict a projectile instead of reacting to it due to their character's slow dash to shield). The reason why dashing into shield isn't as good for them at close range is because of their substandard OOS and unimpressive CQC.

I got the dash to shield numbers from an old post made by @Emblem Lord in one of the competitive impressions threads. The reason why I am able to access it pretty easily is because I quoted it in the "Mii Gunner frame data on shield" thread. There is also another old dash to shield post that includes the dash to shield of the Miis, but it isn't that easy to find. If I remember correctly, Gunner's dash to shield is 8 frames, Brawler's dash to shield is 10 frames, and Swordfighter's dash to shield is 13 frames.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OWFwy_dg04Rrq4a-YF9-VDOhZI/edit#gid=524475654
 

Bowserboy3

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I got the dash to shield numbers from an old post made by @Emblem Lord in one of the competitive impressions threads. The reason why I am able to access it pretty easily is because I quoted it in the "Mii Gunner frame data on shield" thread. There is also another old dash to shield post that includes the dash to shield of the Miis, but it isn't that easy to find. If I remember correctly, Gunner's dash to shield is 8 frames, Brawler's dash to shield is 10 frames, and Swordfighter's dash to shield is 13 frames.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OWFwy_dg04Rrq4a-YF9-VDOhZI/edit#gid=524475654
Thanks for that, I'll be bookmarking that when I get home.
 

JayZee1700

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:4dk:+1 ---- Why is DK low 4th tier? He may be combo food and have one of the largest hurtboxes, but he's also the scariest character with rage next to Lucario. He's decently fast and obviously very powerful. He has very good His Ding-Dong is one of the most dangerous combos in the game, and he has a variety of ways to get a grab. He possesses many disjoints in his Up and Down Tilt. His Grounded Up-Special has super armor, making it an incredibly good kill move. His arms are intangible too! His drawbacks are mostly lack of a decent vertical recovery and deplorable ledge options, but his amazing strengths overshadows said weaknesses. He is also has a better than many of the characters in the 4th tier, and even a few of 3rd tiers.

In conclusion, Donkey Kong should be at least high 4th tier, if not low to mid 3rd tier. He's better than most 4th tiers and a few 3rd tiers, making him better than low 4th tier.
 

Frihetsanka

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In conclusion, Donkey Kong should be at least high 4th tier, if not low to mid 3rd tier. He's better than most 4th tiers and a few 3rd tiers, making him better than low 4th tier.
Tiers are not in order yet. Donkey Kong might very well be at the top of tier 4 (which I consider High-Mid tier, but officially it's just tier 4 for now).
 

Arrei

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On top of that, isn't rage just as easily a detriment to Donkey Kong's purposes? If he misses the Ding Dong window, his kill options become severely limited - he could kill with a grab near the sides, but his only safe kill options apart from that against defensive opponents are Bair and Utilt, which don't kill nearly as well. And while you're busy trying to prep the opponent for a donging, they're throwing out combos and causing rage to ruin the window.
 

Bowserboy3

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UPDATED :)

In short?

R.I.P. Ganondorf.

  • You have 5 votes to play with. +1 and/or -1 up to 5 different characters.
  • Characters are not ranked within tiers at this point. You are voting to establish their tiering position.
  • Remember, it takes +/-3 to move a character 1 tier, and +/-10 to move them 2 tiers. No character can move more than 2 tiers during each phase.
  • Please vote on the list at the time of voting. While you can vote based on what you like, things such as "X character will probably get votes later so I'm down voting now etc" isn't the best way to do it.
  • :4pit: and :4darkpit: can be joined together to count as one vote if you vote for one or the other. However, you can still vote on them individually if you so desire.
An example vote:

+1:4bayonetta:
+1:4bowser:
-1:4bowserjr:
+1:4falcon:
-1:4charizard:

Version 4.0.8 - Characters not ranked within tiers.

1::4diddy::4sheik::4fox::4bayonetta::4sonic::rosalina::4mario::4cloud:
2::4mewtwo::4zss:
3::4villager::4marth::4pikachu::4ryu::4tlink::4corrin::4greninja::4lucina::4megaman::4metaknight::4falcon::4lucario::4ness::4pit::4darkpit:
4::4lucas::4yoshi::4peach::4robinm::4myfriends::4luigi::4olimar::4dk::4rob::4bowser:
5::4duckhunt::4link::4gaw::4shulk::4wiifit::4littlemac::4pacman::4samus::4wario2:
6::4falco::4kirby::4miigun::4feroy::4charizard::4drmario::4palutena:
7::4jigglypuff::4zelda::4dedede::4miisword::4miibrawl::4bowserjr:
8::4ganondorf:

For now:

+1:4zss:
+1:4mewtwo:
+1:4megaman:
+1:4metaknight:
+1:4marth:

Of note, I do want to say that I don't think Marth is definitely top 13-ish; it's possible, but I do think him, along with Mega Man and Meta Knight, and a few others from their current tier could go up, but I am just picking them first.
 
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Frihetsanka

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Before I vote, I'd like to talk a bit about the tiers. This is unofficial, but the way I see it right now:

1: Top
2: Upper High
3: Lower High
4: High-Mid
5: Mid
6: Low-Mid
7: Low
8: Bottom

So, Mewtwo and Zero Suit Samus should probably be voted up to tier 1, and Jigglypuff and maybe Brawler and/or Swordfighter should be tier 8. Some characters in tier 3 should move up to tier 2. Aside from that, and a few minor issues, I think the tier list looks really good right now.

Bowserboy3 Bowserboy3 I'm counting Palutena at -4, with Kirby Dragons, Routa, Dee-SmashinBoss, and Chainz. downvoting her, so she should be tier 6.
 

Bowserboy3

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Bowserboy3 Bowserboy3 I'm counting Palutena at -4, with Kirby Dragons, Routa, Dee-SmashinBoss, and Chainz. downvoting her, so she should be tier 6.
Thanks for that; I counted Kirby Dragons's vote as an up vote by mistake, so that's why Palutena stayed put.

She should also be correct on the lists now.
 

Nidtendofreak

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-:4corrin:
-:4villager:
-:4megaman:
-:4marth:

Happy with Tier 4/5 in terms of the current characters in there and which one of them is in which tier outside of Samus and maybe Olimar. Holding onto last vote + made changes to this current list of votes as it was recent enough.
 
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Frihetsanka

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Project "Get more characters into tier 2 (which I consider Upper High tier)", take 2:

:4megaman:+1 (Mega Man + Kameme = Top 15.)
:4ryu:+1 (Ryu still has pretty good results if you look at Das Koopa's ranking thread, and I think he's more Upper High tier material than Lower High tier material.)
(Meta Knight is really good.)
:4marth:+1 (Marth has great results.)
(Ranai's Villager is such a beast.)

:4tlink:+1 (Is Toon Link good enough for Upper High tier? I guess we'll see if people help me with this, if not I'll change my vote.)
:4duckhunt:+1 (Counter-vote, I think Duck Hunt should remain in tier 5 thanks to Japanese Duck Hunt players.)

I might switch some of the votes if necessary. Mewtwo, Zero Suit Samus, and Toon Link also deserve to move up.

Edit: Replaced Villager with Toon Link and Meta Knight with Duck Hunt.
 
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TDK

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-1 :4duckhunt:
-1 :4pacman:


List looks good, I'll hold onto the other three for now.
I've added a Link Upvote. He's a level above characters like Wario, Samus, and Pac-Man for sure. I've also added a Palutena upvote because she definitely isn't in the same tier as trash like Falco and the Various miis.
 
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QualityQ

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I guess I'll leave :4falcon: where he is then; the difference between bottom of high and top of mid is relatively minor anyway.

Only a few characters really stick out to me now, one of them being :4luigi:. Could he move up once again? I'm not sure about it.

+1 :4villager:
-0 :4littlemac: Edit: -1 :4link:
-1 :4zelda:
-1 :4ryu:
+1 :4pikachu:
 
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Frihetsanka

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Votes thus far (the official tier names are the numbers, I put my suggested tier names in parenthesis, but those aren't official):

1 (Top): [0:4diddy::4sheik::4bayonetta::4fox::4sonic::rosalina::4mario:][-1:4cloud:]
Moving up to 1 (Top): [4:4mewtwo::4zss:]
2 (Upper High): (∞:153:)
Moving up to 3 (Upper High): [5:4pikachu:][4:4metaknight::4villager:][3:4marth:]
3 (Lower High): [2:4tlink::4ryu::4ness:][1:4megaman::4greninja:][0:4falcon::4lucario::4pit::4darkpit:][-1:4lucina::4corrinf:]
4 (High-Mid): [2:4peach:][1:4luigi::4robinf:][0:4lucas::4yoshi::4dk::4olimar::4myfriends::4rob::4bowser:]
5 (Mid): [2:4link:][0:4gaw::4wario2::4shulk:][-1:4samus::4littlemac:][-2:4pacman:]
Moving down to 6 (Low-Mid): [-3:4wiifit::4duckhunt:]
Moving up to 5 (Mid): [4:4palutena:]
6 (Low-Mid): [2:4falco::4kirby:][1:4drmario::4charizard:][0:4miigun:][-1:4feroy:]
7 (Low): [-1:4miibrawl::4bowserjr:][-2:4miisword:]
Moving down to 8 (Bottom): [-5:4jigglypuff:][-4:4zelda:][-3:4dedede:]
8 (Bottom): [2:4ganondorf:]
 
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Ethan7

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-:4pacman:not mid tier.
-:4samus:not mid tier either.
+:4tlink:counter vote.
+:4mewtwo:I guess I'll go with Frihetsanka's tier names and have it top tier.
+:4marth:Same as Mewtwo but should be upper high tier.
 
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L1N3R1D3R

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+1 :4megaman::4metaknight::4marth: To fill tier 2 with the characters that deserve it the most (besides Villager, he's already moving up easily).
+1 :4peach: She's been on the rise lately. Besides her sub par mobility and her atrocious Meta Knight matchup, she has all the tools and "poTENshul" needed to be a major threat right now and especially in the future, and tier 3 fits her better than tier 4.
+1 :4palutena: For some reason, Palutena is the one character people downvote based on theory over her great results. Make up your minds, people!

Now that there's another tier at the bottom, I'm comfortable with Pac-Man moving down. I was nervous before when he was going to move to the second lowest tier, but as long as Jigglypuff and a couple others move down to tier 8 with Ganon, I'm fine with Pac-Man being tier 6.

EDIT: Replaced Villager upvote with Marth upvote.
 
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D

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Guest
I feel like Palutena will fall as the meta goes on, but she's comfortably sitting in upper part of low tier/low part of mid in the current meta right now. The amount of downvotes she's been getting these past few rounds is ridiculous.
 

Frihetsanka

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For some reason, Palutena is the one character people downvote based on theory over her great results. Make up your minds, people!
The amount of downvotes she's been getting these past few rounds is ridiculous.
The thing about Palutena is that she is likely either at the bottom of regular Mid tier or at the top of Low-Mid tier. Some people who believe that she should be Mid tier upvote her, while some people who believe that she should be Low-Mid tier (or perhaps even Low tier?) downvote her.

I think she's probably at the bottom of regular Mid tier, but I could see her being at the top of Low-Mid tier as well. She's clearly one of the most controversial characters around these parts, though at least she's placing better than last time (when she was bottom 9).
 

Frihetsanka

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For fun, and for comparison, I decided to copy the last community tier list along with what I considered to be somewhat appropriate tier names (though it's not 100% correct). Back then we had two tiers for top tier, so in order to make it easier to compare with our current list, I decided to combine those two. This one is actually in order, from left to right (the current one isn't yet). Note that Miis were Guest XXXX and are Guest 1111 now.

1 (Top)::4diddy::4sheik::rosalina::4zss::4cloud:[Lower Top]::4mario::4sonic::4fox::4ryu:
2 (Upper High)::4bayonetta::4mewtwo::4villager::4metaknight::4ness::4pikachu::4greninja:
3 (Lower High)::4tlink::4corrin::4falcon:(:4darkpit::4pit:):4rob::4lucario::4yoshi::4myfriends::4luigi:
4 (High-Mid)::4lucas::4marth::4megaman::4dk::4miibrawl::4peach:

5 (Mid)::4pacman::4wario::4olimar::4lucina::4robinf::4wiifit::4samus::4kirby::4miigun:
6 (Low-Mid)::4bowser::4link::4miisword::4drmario::4gaw::4shulk::4duckhunt:
7 (Low)::4falco::4palutena::4littlemac::4bowserjr::4charizard::4feroy:
8 (Bottom)::4dedede::4ganondorf::4zelda::4jigglypuff:

Here are some things I find interesting: Ryu as a top 9 character. This time around he'll probably be Upper High at best. Ness and Pikachu seem to have also dropped a bit. R.O.B, Yoshi, Ike, and Luigi in Lower High tier is also interesting.

If we look at Mid tier we'll see that Pac-Man was actually regarded more highly back then (as was Kirby). Bowser, Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Shulk, and Duck Hunt seem to have climbed out of Low-Mid into Mid, and some of them might even be High-Mid! Interesting (having good results helps). Little Mac climbing out of bottom 8 and Palutena bottom 9 is also interesting.

Anyway, I wouldn't put much emphasis on the old list. It's interesting to compare, sure, but we should focus on moving forward. If we look at really old lists we see Ness and Pikachu in top 10.
 

Phuckyew

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WOW, I haven't commented on one of these threads since V3, but I'm looking to change that starting now.

+:4mewtwo:
It amazes me that with all of his results, people still place Mewtwo lower than the rest of the top tiers. Why? If he were under performing, I could see the reason for the tier split, but this simply isn't the case. He is one of the few characters that's actually living up to his theory (I'm looking at you:4ryu:and:4shulk:). I'm happy to see I'm not the only person T R I G G E R E D by this placement.

+:4drmario:When I look at the doc, I see a character that's completely outclassed by the original; however, I don't agree with his placement in the bottom 10. It's easy to neglect a character so results starved, even :4jigglypuff:has more, but everyone is quick to point out his negatives while completely ignoring his positive aspects. Doc possesses amazing frame data, great kill power, and a versatile combo game. I don't think anybody will pick him over :4mario:anytime soon, but that doesn't make him a bottom 10 character.

-:4dedede: Where do I begin with this mess of a character?
1) He has a huge frame, low air speed (the lowest in the game if I'm not mistaken), and falls fast. This makes him the definition of combo food.
2) His fastest grounded move starts on frame 6 (down tilt) and his fastest aerial starts on frame 7 (Nair). His all around sluggish frame data makes it difficult to break out of combos.
3) His Gordo Toss would be a decent projectile... if it wasn't laggy, choreographed, and deflected back at him by 2% damage.
4) Maybe I'm just bad, but I have a really hard time securing kills with this guy. A lot of his moves lack kill power, and his main "finishers" are impossible to use on an opponent with half a living brain cell (F smash and down B).
In conclusion, he shouldn't worry about the aforementioned problems because he's perfect.

I may change these votes but for now:

+:4zss:It feels weird having a top tier without her. I don't know too many of her character specifics but her results should speak for themselves.

-:4link: You're over hyping him. Stop it. I remember a couple of months ago when many of you felt he was bottom 5 (mainly because Dabuz said so) but High-Mid tier... that's too good for him.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
WOW, I haven't commented on one of these threads since V3, but I'm looking to change that starting now.

+:4mewtwo:
It amazes me that with all of his results, people still place Mewtwo lower than the rest of the top tiers. Why? If he were under performing, I could see the reason for the tier split, but this simply isn't the case. He is one of the few characters that's actually living up to his theory (I'm looking at you:4ryu:and:4shulk:). I'm happy to see I'm not the only person T R I G G E R E D by this placement.

+:4drmario:When I look at the doc, I see a character that's completely outclassed by the original; however, I don't agree with his placement in the bottom 10. It's easy to neglect a character so results starved, even :4jigglypuff:has more, but everyone is quick to point out his negatives while completely ignoring his positive aspects. Doc possesses amazing frame data, great kill power, and a versatile combo game. I don't think anybody will pick him over :4mario:anytime soon, but that doesn't make him a bottom 10 character.

-:4dedede: Where do I begin with this mess of a character?
1) He has a huge frame, low air speed (the lowest in the game if I'm not mistaken), and falls fast. This makes him the definition of combo food.
2) His fastest grounded move starts on frame 6 (down tilt) and his fastest aerial starts on frame 7 (Nair). His all around sluggish frame data makes it difficult to break out of combos.
3) His Gordo Toss would be a decent projectile... if it wasn't laggy, choreographed, and deflected back at him by 2% damage.
4) Maybe I'm just bad, but I have a really hard time securing kills with this guy. A lot of his moves lack kill power, and his main "finishers" are impossible to use on an opponent with half a living brain cell (F smash and down B).
In conclusion, he shouldn't worry about the aforementioned problems because he's perfect.

I may change these votes but for now:

+:4zss:It feels weird having a top tier without her. I don't know too many of her character specifics but her results should speak for themselves.

-:4link: You're over hyping him. Stop it. I remember a couple of months ago when many of you felt he was bottom 5 (mainly because Dabuz said so) but High-Mid tier... that's too good for him.
Shulk's "potential" is a long dead meme now, even among most Shulk players. Most of his best players think he's low-mid or mid at best.
 

L1N3R1D3R

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+:4drmario:When I look at the doc, I see a character that's completely outclassed by the original; however, I don't agree with his placement in the bottom 10. It's easy to neglect a character so results starved, even :4jigglypuff:has more, but everyone is quick to point out his negatives while completely ignoring his positive aspects. Doc possesses amazing frame data, great kill power, and a versatile combo game. I don't think anybody will pick him over :4mario:anytime soon, but that doesn't make him a bottom 10 character.
Just so you know, the order within the tiers is not established at this point, so he's not "bottom 10". I would argue that he should be in his current tier, but in the higher part of it.

-:4link: You're over hyping him. Stop it. I remember a couple of months ago when many of you felt he was bottom 5 (mainly because Dabuz said so) but High-Mid tier... that's too good for him.
I do agree that he should be in tier 5, but near the top of it, and I can see why people would want him to move up to 4. Obviously T has seemingly come out of nowhere to get 9th at Umebura S.A.T., eliminating Ranai and also outplacing most notably Abadango, Komorikiri, RAIN, Earth, and ikep. But Scizor and Izaw among others are still getting decent results, and Sova Unknown has improved a lot recently, eliminating notable names like Umeki at Xanadus and generally doing well.
 
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Routa

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I think you are doing a great job Frihetsanka, but I think naming the tiers atm does more harm than good. People are too fixated on the tier names. People ignore which characters are being in the same tier. Like I don't vote Link to be High-Mid, but I'm voting him to be in the same tier with the likes of Ike and Luigi. This is also the reason why I am against voting Palutena higher 'cause I have really hard time seeing her better than Kirby and Mii Gunner. Once I see them moving to same tier as Wario and Samus then I can see Palutena also joining the upper tier.
 

Frihetsanka

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Are you sure this is right? This disagrees with Bowserboy3's list, for the Pits at least.
You are correct. Either someone edited their vote and added an upvote for the Pits without saying that they did so, or I simply missed a vote (seems pretty unlikely, but it could happen, I suppose). I'll edit my post.

I think you are doing a great job Frihetsanka, but I think naming the tiers atm does more harm than good. People are too fixated on the tier names. People ignore which characters are being in the same tier. Like I don't vote Link to be High-Mid, but I'm voting him to be in the same tier with the likes of Ike and Luigi. This is also the reason why I am against voting Palutena higher 'cause I have really hard time seeing her better than Kirby and Mii Gunner. Once I see them moving to same tier as Wario and Samus then I can see Palutena also joining the upper tier.
The names are unofficial, so people may ignore them if they wish. I think they do more good than harm, and I think, given the current characters, the tier names are mostly accurate (once more characters have moved up to tier 2, ie what I consider Upper High tier, of course). I think with 8 tiers those tier names I've suggested are fairly logical, and most characters fit those tier names (in my opinion), but you are free to disagree, of course. Bowserboy3 has expressed a desire to not spend too much time discussing tier names right now, so I will respect his wish and try to avoid a discussion.

Do note that quite a few people wanted to keep Ike in tier 5, so perhaps it's not Link that is too low but Ike that is too high? Perhaps you should downvote Ike? Or upvote Kirby? Though I think Palutena is better than Kirby, both based on MU charts and results. As for Ike/Link, I don't think the case for Link being High-mid is that bad anyway, seeing how he's starting to get quite a bit of results in Japan.

As for Mii Gunner, well, that character is underrated by the Smashboards. It wouldn't surprise me if Mii Gunner ended up in tier 7, or even tier 8, even though the character deserves better.

One of my main reasons for giving the suggested names is to avoid having people counter-vote based on different perception of what tiers are. For instance, if person X thinks that tier 2 is Lower Top tier, then they might counter-vote any upvote for Meta Knight or Mega Man. If person Y thinks that tier 2 is Upper High tier, then they might upvote Meta Knight and/or Mega Man. If both agree that tier 2 is, say, Upper High tier, then such counter-voting would only exist if they actually had difference in belief regarding which tier Mega Man and Meta Knight should be in. Thus, people having similar ideas of which tier is which helps reduce unnecessary counter-voting, and keeps counter-voting more relevant. Of course, since these are merely my suggestions, I run the risk of convincing some people to view the tier that way while some people view it differently. I was worried that would happen when we created a tier above the old tier 1, that we would see a bunch of downvotes for Mario, Fox, Cloud, etc, since people might perceive those as "Lower Top tier" rather than "Upper Top tier", in case they view tier 1 as Upper Top tier and tier 2 as Lower Top tier. However, this doesn't seem to be the case, and most people seem to have accepted tier 1 as Top tier and tier 2 as Upper High tier. The lower tiers seem a bit more controversial, for some reason, but right now we're mostly seeing it in a few characters (such as Pac-Man and Palutena). I suppose that's not too bad, since both are borderline cases.

In the end, even if we do agree on names, we might disagree what the names entail. For instance, some people might believe that high tier ends around top #15 or #16, while others might believe it ends around #23 or #24. They might have similar views on how good the #23 character is, but some might call it "Lower High tier" and others "High-Mid tier". Same with lower tier characters, some may call the bottom 10 character a "Low tier character", while someone else might call them a "Low-Mid character", yet their beliefs in how good the character actually is might not be all that different. Personally, I would say that we, right now, have about 10 Top tier characters, 13-15 High tier characters, 7-12 High-Mid characters, 5-10 regular Mid tier characters, 5-10 Low-Mid characters, 2-7 Low tier characters, and 2-4 bottom tier characters. Others might argue that we should have maybe 5-7 High tier characters and a lot more High-Mid characters, and they wouldn't necessarily be wrong. Some might like to engulf some of the characters I consider Low-Mid in Low tier, yet this might be because they consider "Low tier" to not be as bad as I consider "Low tier" to be. And that's fine. In the end, what's most important is where characters stand in relation to others, I'd argue. Top 20 will always be pretty good, regardless of whether you call it Lower High tier or High-Mid tier. Later on we're going to order characters within tiers, and then we can put, say, Palutena at the bottom of tier 5, or at the top of tier 6 (assuming that's what people vote for).

tl;dr: Tier names are unofficial, but might still serve as a help for some people (including me). In the end, even tier names like "Lower High tier" and "High-Mid tier" are not that well-defined, so it might be a good idea to look at where characters stand in relation to others. This won't become clear until the later rounds, however, since that's when we'll order characters within tiers. Until then, I think a lot of people will have more use of thinking of character X in, say, Low-Mid tier, rather than "tier number Y", which can get confusing.
 

ShadowGuy1

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2015
Messages
1,311
Thing is, it's the only tier names we have so people will assume it is the actual thing and base their votes off of it. Even if you states it is unofficial, it'll still be thought of as official.

Anyway my votes
-:4jigglypuff:
-:4zelda:
-:4miibrawl:
+:4villager:
+:4tlink:

Personally I feel all but the Pits in that tier could move up, but I don't think Corrin would go up because of downvotes.
 

Bigbomb2

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
164
Location
PA
NNID
Bigbomb2
:4link:+ :>
:4falco:- He just doesn't feel like he's a large threat in high levels of play. Of course a good Falco will still wreck a lot of us :v
:4ryu:+ If his mobility was better dear lord. Despite that, still a great character that's still doing alright even if he dropped a bit.
:4wiifit:-
:4feroy:- I think Roy will rise someday. Just not today
 
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