Smash WiiU & 3DS Miiverse Daily Pic - July 15th

[extremechiton]

Confirmed CLONE!!!
Lucina is marth with no tipper effect.

 

[Metallaeus]

Considering the amount of sales Awakening had (a million or so, meaning that is the max amount of people that could be satisfied), compared to the sheer number of people who buy and play Smash (20 million and something, IIRC), I seriously doubt most Smash fans are happy with Lucina.

I don't have any attachment to the characters from Awakening since I've only played the demo, but Robin looks like a really unique addition in terms of how he/she plays. So I'm liking him/her quite a bit. I think that after Rosalina & Luma, Robin might be the most unique addition to the roster.

However, I'm not liking Lucina, as she literally adds nothing to the game. Her inclusion on the roster is just pure pandering, and probably comes from the fact that Sakurai really loves Fire Emblem, so he wants to squeeze as much from the series as he can, into Smash. I really don't think most people would care if she was just a glorified skin swap for Marth, like Panda is to Kuma in the Tekken games.

Literally the only people who can appreciate Lucina's addition are her fans, and even then, not all of them are happy with her being a clone.

Also, am I the only one bothered by the fact that Lucina is getting a free pass on being a clone, with people saying she is "just fine", while people won't shut up about Toon Link, despite the fact Toon Link is a veteran (so his inclusion comes with little fanfare or attention from the developers), and even though he is quite a bit more differentiated from Link than Lucina is from Marth?

Granted, I wish Toon Link was more unique, but because he is a veteran, him still being a clone was no surprise. And he at least has some different moves, and his specials at least have very different properties, and has a vastly different size/hit box to Link. Lucina is barely any different.

Sakurai shouldn't appeal to the Fire Emblem fans because the fanbase is significantly smaller than most games? That's not a good perspective :/

Also while I do feel for the Toon Link situation; I don't feel like that justifies bagging on Lucina. I personally like Toon Link over Link both in Smash and in the Zelda series. The real reveal was Robin, and Lucina just tagged along for the ride. Many fans actually wanted Lucina, so if her addition leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, then I guess that sucks.

 

[The Slayer]

I'm not annoyed simply BECAUSE she's a clone.

But even as far as clones go, she's so bland and uninteresting, and seems like an attempt to overshadow the character she is based off of.

That's just a subjective opinion because what you might not like about her is what other people don't mind at all or even to the point of really liking. And I'm not sure how she's overshadowing the character she's suppose to be when she's literally in-character of the character she's characterizing in. The way you're talking about her feels like a nitpick at this rate and there's nothing you can really do about it.

 

[Sonovin]

Oh well, besides I believe there is no real limit to character slots ( sure memory), but I feel its just like different numbers and skin for Lucina.

 

[link and ike lover]

C'mon a clone!!!!!!!!!!

Hey but she looks good. xD

 

[Neosquid]

Oh, wow. I didn't know Capcom let Nintendo use Megaman AND Decapre! (Seriously, I beat FE: Awakening and this **** is still depressing. Lucina couldve been worth alot more than a damn clone.) Inb4 "But Sakurai Senpai might make her hop a little when she walks! Therefore not clone!" Get real, kiddos.

 

[Shamoz]

Huh, since Lucina is more balanced and has shorter reach, wouldn't it be neat if she has the melee shield breaker animation?

 

[itsameluigi1290]

She seems like a glorified alt to me. I'm not mad that she's a clone though, it's not like she's replacing anyone.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Wow... This is some BS. I am so disappointed. Just because she mascarades as Marth in Awakening doesn't mean she has to be a clone of Marth in SSB4 with no tipper and a shorter skeleton. She WAS taught swordsman ship by her father, Chrom. Not the hero king that was dead for centuries. As much as I wanted Lucina I did not want a character slot wasted on a clone. For all that she should just be an alt costume for Marth if they were just gonna say F it like that. Just glade there's move customization. Just seems like a waste of an opportunity to make a new fighting style.

Just...ugh... Was so hype for her. So much potential. Could have given her a spear throw projectile, Aether special, Luna special, a bow... Nope, she's a Marth clone. :/ What ever...

 

[The Slayer]

Oh, wow. I didn't know Capcom let Nintendo use Megaman AND Decapre! (Seriously, I beat FE: Awakening and this **** is still depressing. Lucina couldve been worth alot more than a damn clone.) Inb4 "But Sakurai Senpai might make her hop a little when she walks! Therefore not clone!" Get real, kiddos.

Decapre isn't even a clone. She's plays way differently from Cammy. So don't kid the kidsters, bub.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I'm happy she's in but the only change is that there's no tipper...? Really? And that she's slightly shorter? (Meaning she has less hurtboxes?)

Her physical abilities are 100% identical? So it's not even like a fox falco or roy marth kind of thing?

Wish it coulda had a little more difference, but I can't ask for too much. At least keeping the physical abilities the same would prevent people from feeling bad if, for example, they liked Lucina but wanted her to have Marth's physical abilities or the other way. Keeping it the same would make people more OK with how Lucina/Marth's abilities are.

Sakurai may just be referring to her moves when he says physical abilities, but I kinda doubt it. Though Gamexplain did point out some minor differences between her and Marth with some of her moves.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Wow... This is some BS. I am so disappointed. Just because she mascarades as Marth in Awakening doesn't mean she has to be a clone of Marth in SSB4 with no tipper and a shorter skeleton. She WAS taught swordsman ship by her father, Chrom. Not the hero king that was dead for centuries. As much as I wanted Lucina I did not want a character slot wasted on a clone. For all that she should just be an alt costume for Marth if they were just gonna say F it like that. Just glade there's move customization. Just seems like a waste of an opportunity to make a new fighting style.

Just...ugh... Was so hype for her. So much potential. Could have given her a spear throw projectile, Aether special, Luna special, a bow... Nope, she's a Marth clone. :/ What ever...

They're not "wasting a slot" on a clone. Clone characters are much easier to make than unique ones. You could add several clone characters in the time it takes to make a unique character. She's not taking the spot of someone who'd be unique.

 

[Neosquid]

Sakurai may just be referring to her moves when he says physical abilities, but I kinda doubt it. Though Gamexplain did point out some minor differences between her and Marth with some of her moves.

But those were aesthetic. Like she swings from the opposite side and different colored side B. A lot of what they said was "maybe she's quicker, or has a better aerial game" which they confirmed were their guesses. Nothing suggests she's actually different.

 

[ChikoLad]

Sakurai shouldn't appeal to the Fire Emblem fans because the fanbase is significantly smaller than most games? That's not a good perspective :/

Also while I do feel for the Toon Link situation; I don't feel like that justifies bagging on Lucina. I personally like Toon Link over Link both in Smash and in the Zelda series. The real reveal was Robin, and Lucina just tagged along for the ride. Many fans actually wanted Lucina, so if her addition leaves a bitter taste in your mouth, then I guess that sucks.

That's not what I said. I'm perfectly fine with more FE reps, and I know it has a lot of interesting characters to choose from. However, only the relatively small FE fanbase can appreciate Lucina in particular, because she brings nothing new to Smash, and only her pre-established fans can appreciate her. While pretty much anyone can appreciate Robin, because he/she brings something new to Smash in terms of play style, which leaves a good first impression.

And I criticise both Toon Link (despite being my Brawl/Project M main after Sonic) and Lucina, but Lucina is worse than Toon Link. They're both justified in being criticised, but Lucina especially so.

From what I've read here and on Tumblr, people are OK with her because she's another female addition. I think more female additions is great - but not BECAUSE they are female, and I think anyone who thinks that is just as sexist as anyone who opposes females.

The other female additions are great because they prove that Nintendo has a vast line-up of female characters that are differentiated not only from each other, but from the male cast. I get a very unique vibe from every other female character in the game (not counting the "gender neutral" characters like Robin, since their sex is interchangeable and so their portrayal is gender neutral).

Then I see Lucina, and the first thought that comes into my head is "gender-bent Marth". Which isn't a very good first impression for what is supposed to be a distinctly female character, rather than one who has an interchangeable sex, like Robin.

 

[BlastState]

Nice to see that Sakurai didn't forget about the Mark of Naga on Lucina's eye. I wonder if the increase in Fire Emblem representation increases the likelihood of more FE stages for the 3DS and Wii U versions.

 

[Agualitos]

Well this is a bummer :/ I was hoping that Lucina, although everyone thought differently, would not be a "clone" character. Sure she has a minor difference in attack and stature, but overall Lucina kinda is a female Marth :/ She even looks just like him also. Maybe it's just becauseI miss Chrom, but I feel Lucina could have been Marth's alt skin, and Chrom his own character? Oh well. . . who knowns maybe she will surprise me in the end.

 

[Frank Weast]

I feel as everyone will complain now but when they play her they will like her

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Boy am I glad Sakurai clarified that on the next day. Because people were getting quite steamy debating if she was a clone or an alt costume.
Now the people can proceed to be angry that Sakurai is putting cheap clones in the game. Yay! (like I have stated before, I don't mind clones myself. Rather clone Lucina than no Lucina at all).

 

[Trigger123]

That's not what I said. I'm perfectly fine with more FE reps, and I know it has a lot of interesting characters to choose from. However, only the relatively small FE fanbase can appreciate Lucina in particular, because she brings nothing new to Smash, and only her pre-established fans can appreciate her. While pretty much anyone can appreciate Robin, because he/she brings something new to Smash in terms of play style, which leaves a good first impression.

And I criticise both Toon Link (despite being my Brawl/Project M main after Sonic) and Lucina, but Lucina is worse than Toon Link. They're both justified in being criticised, but Lucina especially so.

From what I've read here and on Tumblr, people are OK with her because she's another female addition. I think more female additions is great - but not BECAUSE they are female, and I think anyone who thinks that is just as sexist as anyone who opposes females.

The other female additions are great because they prove that Nintendo has a vast line-up of female characters that are differentiated not only from each other, but from the male cast. I get a very unique vibe from every other female character in the game (not counting the "gender neutral" characters like Robin, since their sex is interchangeable and so their portrayal is gender neutral).

Then I see Lucina, and the first thought that comes into my head is "gender-bent Marth". Which isn't a very good first impression for what is supposed to be a distinctly female character, rather than one who has an interchangeable sex, like Robin.

I feel this way too I feel like her addition is unnecessary and shes in just cause she is a girl because a lot more people would have preferred chrome. I have nothing against her but they easily could have just used her as an alternate costume, I don't see whats wrong with an alternate costume having minor ability changes that is something they could do with Dr. Mario.

 

[Substitution]

So, she's a clone/semiclone then? Huh. Well maybe that opens up the opportunity for a certain doctor to join.

 

[serazac25]

So you can pick Marth's alt from a different slot, seems like less trouble

 

[Ryan.]

I'm so glad Sakurai addressed this so the alt costume discussion will end with her. This also opens up the possibility of more than one newcomer sharing a trailer.

Hopefully they do decide to give her some more differences though from Marth. I don't mind if she's a semi-clone.

 

[Pikmin1211]

"Oh no, another clone!"
Dude... they've been in the game from N64. If they get an easy opportunity to fill up the roster and please more fans, they'll do it. On the subject, I'd love to see Louie and Dark Pit added.

 

[4cast]

This makes me curious if there's going to be any other clone newcomers. Would be a little strange if Lucina really was the only one.

Daisy and Dark Pit Confirmed

 

[Neosquid]

Daisy and Dark Pit Confirmed

Dark Pit could be a semi clone (using sniper staves and clubs or swords instead of claws and arms like Pit)...but this update trounces the idea of uniqueness for clones.

 

[Malion]

Well I'm glad we got clarification. While I would have liked her to have different speed/strength/whatever this is ok I guess?

He's basically saying she's an alt costume with slight differences so you have to go to another box to pick her.

I wouldn't say she was "taking" up a slot... and if anything without her there would just be one less character in the game. Not a completely different character that missed out because she's in.

I will probably play her and see if I like her before I make any definitive statements. I liked Roy more than Marth so I might like playing as Lucina more than Marth.

I look forward to her recolours... maybe they will reference other female FE characters?

 

[L9999]

I can't believe people in the last months were in crowd posting "WE WANT LUCINA! SAKURAI PLS! and now most people hate her or are dissapointed. Also, was it nessesary for Lucina to be a clone?

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

They're not "wasting a slot" on a clone. Clone characters are much easier to make than unique ones. You could add several clone characters in the time it takes to make a unique character. She's not taking the spot of someone who'd be unique.

Fine, maybe it's just me... But when I look at a character roster screen I take solace knowing that each spot holds a individual character that has moves unique to them and are different from the next. I will use Street Fighter as an example. I'm okay with the Ryu > Ken > Sakura > Sean clone design. Ken's specials are multi hit and are engulfed in flame. Sean tackles and has a double fist dragon punch. Sakura does a three kick hop and dashes for her dragon punch.

As someone who put 200 + GAME HOURS into Fire Emblem: Awakening I KNOW they didn't have to give her a Dolphin Slash, a Dancing Blade, the same Nair and what looked like the same dash attack animation. I KNOW they could of made her Dash Attack a stab like it is in FE: Awakening. I know they could have given her a Spear throw. Instead they just did the easy thing and cloned Marth because of what? She's a descendant of King Marth, there swords have the same name and she (poorly) impersonates him in FE: Awakening.

I dunno bro. When Sakurai says he's doing away with clone characters then I expect more work to go into characters to make them look and feel different. I get game development and programming is "hard" and its faster to adjust pre existing skeletons and hit boxes. But if you're gonna give her clone status do your character screen artist/programmers a favor and make her an alt costume instead of wasting screen realty.

But that's just my opinion. I wanted Lucina in, just not like this... But you can't always get what you want so, whatever.

 

[Malion]

I also like that Sakurai states that she is shorter than Marth but then posts two pictures which are angled to make her look Taller than Marth!

 

[infomon]

This game has a very strong emphasis on character variation. It will be interesting to see how that changes smash.

Although, Lucina is to Marth what Roy was to Marth. I don't understand how people can be upset by her presence. Having Lucina is strictly better than not having Lucina. Any "tradeoff" being considered here is just wild speculation.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I'm honestly not annoyed that Lucina has Marth's moveset with tweaks. Even in Melee, Marth and Roy were basically the same moveset in two characters with tweaks in their trajectories, hitbox placements, movement, falling speed, etc. However, they both ended playing and performing vastly different from each other. Same goes for Fox & Falco in Melee, and Toon Link & Link in Brawl. I am confident that both Lucina & Marth will differ enough to be different flavours of ice cream, so to speak.

tl:dr basically what has been posted this entire thread about "clones" not being a bad thing.

 

[Malion]

Maybe they will have different move customizations to each other?

 

[Strawhat Jiggs]

RIP the theory. Sakurai with the subtle troll leading into the post calling them identical, and the glance at the second image having Lucina/Marth with Male/Female trainers haha

Get rekt Japan Time

 

[4cast]

I'm honestly not annoyed that Lucina has Marth's moveset with tweaks. Even in Melee, Marth and Roy were basically the same moveset in two characters with tweaks in their trajectories, hitbox placements, movement, falling speed, etc. However, they both ended playing and performing vastly different from each other. Same goes for Fox & Falco in Melee, and Toon Link & Link in Brawl. I am confident that both Lucina & Marth will differ enough to be different flavours of ice cream, so to speak.

tl:dr basically what has been posted this entire thread about "clones" not being a bad thing.

Very hopeful of this

 

[z00ted]

This doesn't necessarily mean there's going to be more "clones" in the game. Sakurai may just be following Lucina's traits from the series she's from to stay true to the character. Although I feel her addition is kinda unwarranted and someone else could have filled her spot in a way more unique way (moveset wise), I'm not disappointed w/ how she was designed.

Imagine playing FE: Awakening quickly followed by Smash 4 to find that she can do all sorts of techniques that were unheard of in her original model. Would more than likely feel awkward, untrue to what you were aware of. I feel as though Sakurai or someone from the Nintendo/Namco team obviously loves the Fire Emblem series (3 characters aside from Lucina as is) and just threw her in for personal reasons along with diversity/relevancy.

Love the female representation this Smash. I'd never consider maining Marth in Smash 4, but after seeing Lucina - there's a strong possibility of her becoming my eventual main. I guess to some people, traits in a moveset can take less priority over whether or not their said "favorite character" is in a game.

Thankful either way on Lucina's addition, but hopefully we won't be seeing any more clones (especially w/ this many swordsmen taking into consideration Metaknight's eventual reveal). As we've already seen on all these newcomers already added, the game designers behind Smash 4 have more than enough creativity to make each newcomer feel fresh and innovative to the franchise.

 

[BigHairyFart]

So basically easy mode Marth for those who can't space well?

 

[Moon Monkey]

This is actually the first clone I'm okay with. It makes sense why she and Marth have the same moves especially after playing Fire Emblem Awakening.

 

[smashingDoug]

still a waste of a slot

 

[Frank Weast]

still a waste of a slot

#deal with it

 

[smashingDoug]

#deal with it

aka #look at me i think funny