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Official Smash Ultimate Online General Discussion

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
I've legit had issues beating Little Macs in the 2mil+ GSP zone due to the way they just sit there, read, and punch when its open. His attacks come out SO fast and they hurt so much that I've legit taken L's to this character a few times that have made me rage lol.
I run into those here and there. They love FD too. It helps to have a good projectile.

I honestly don’t know how Little Mac players even have fun playing their character considering how slow and careful he has to be played to be successful against anyone who isn’t ignorant on how his mechanics work.
 

zipzo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
Messages
87
Shield grab is your friend lol
In my experience, just that SLIGHT delay makes sheild grab literally unusable to a little Mac that is reacting within a certain window of frame perfection. As in, I can go for the block, and then he can literally follow up before the grab comes out. Sheild grab was heavily nerfed in ultimate so it's not surprising but just even that slight delay utterly ruins sheild grabbing in online play against people who know what's up.
 
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Jaycee_023

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
38
Location
Illinois, USA
3DS FC
5215-0852-1547
Just had my first "holy ****, I love this game" moment. Was cycling through some of the characters I'm trying to learn in QP. After a big losing streak on Snake I switch over to my Lucina at about 1.2m GSP. Matched up with a Falcon and we were off to the race. We played each other for 45 minutes and it was exhilarating! He was clearly more technically sound than me, throwing out all the shorthop fastfall moves and big combos. Those are things that I can do to some degree but not with the near-perfect consistency he had! I lost the first two games. But despite the skill gap I made a lot of clutch reads to close out stocks, did some conditioned baits that I didn't even know I had in me, and had won 7 games to his 5 (maybe 6) by the time he left.

That feeling when you learn someone's moves enough to read them and hit a big finish is something I dearly missed. I no longer had access to Smash 4 after Spring 2017 so I've been dying to play this game again and while I'm having a lot more difficulty than I expected in relearning basic techniques, it's ****in worth it, man. In this 45 minute session I had 1 major popoff moment when my opponent hit a hype finish and 2 popoff moments for myself which is something I normally don't do! Jefe if you're out there, thanks for sticking around and engaging with me! I know a lot about the Lucina/Falcon matchup now. Wow I love Smash.
 

Blackwolf666

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
661
3DS FC
5000-4278-5177
I've been getting my *** handed to me a lot online after christmas. I didn't used to have this problem with smash 4 so either

A) I have a higher learning curve when it comes to this games mechanics compared to others.
B) Smash Wii U players were leagues above 3DS players and playing 3DS all these years made me a punching bag.
C) I just plain suck at smash and I'm a try hard.
D) I keep getting matched with God-tier players of smash Ultimate (I see this as the most unlikely)

note: my win rate is only about 60%.

What I seem to have the most trouble with is getting zoned out or getting ledge trapped. Any tips?
 
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KingofPhantoms

The Spook Factor
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
33,493
Location
Southern California
3DS FC
1006-1145-8453
Have the online matchmaking services seen any improvements on any of your ends, lately?

I love online play in Smash and have since Brawl, but I really don't want to invest in this game's paid online yet if the horror stories I've heard about the game's matchmaking are still as frequent as they initially were.
 

Choaralaone

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
1
I played a couple of 1v1’s online at my buddy’s house and it was kind of frustrating with the input lag compared to local play. The matches weren’t lagging as far as I could tell, just noticeable input lag. Is it always noticeable? I was going to get a switch just for this game but the lag is a turn off.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Chachacha
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
8,442
Location
wahwahweewah
It's worth it. I don't even use a LAN adapter and my matches are rarely lagging.
 

R208

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2018
Messages
45
I'm to the point where a single loss to a laggy anything sets me back 10 wins. And, if I manage to beat Mr. McDonald? 100 GSP. I played Ganon in Brawl. I've no idea what could be more frustrating then this experience.
 
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Niuyoi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
10
Location
UK
Sucumbio, use a powerline adapter to connect your LAN adapter to your router without having to drill holes or trail cables everywhere. I replied to a network Q&A post that I'll copy pasta here (side note, would it be worth creating an own topic for this just so that people could find it in google?):

How to have a wired ethernet connection when you can't run an ethernet cable from your Switch to your router:

Equipment needed:
- Powerline adapter kit (I use the entry level TP link one and it works okay)
- Ethernet cable
- Ethernet adaptor (I use the £10 Ugreen one on amazon) https://www.amazon.co.uk/UGREEN-Ethernet-Adapter-Nintendo-Chromebook-x/dp/B00MYT481C/
- Optional, small network switch if you have multiple devices in the same room wanting a wired connection such as your PC or other consoles (DO NOT use a network hub as these are obsolete except for in special cases)

Steps:
1. Plug one end of the powerline adapter directly into the wall outlet near your router and the other end into a wall outlet near your switch. Powerlines do not function properly when plugged into an extension cable and must be plugged directly into the wall outlet.

2. Go through the pairing process of the powerline adapter you have chosen, this typically involves pressing the pairing button on one of the devices then pressing the pairing button on the other. There will be instructions provided in the box of your powerline adapter

3. Plug in your Nintendo Switch ethernet adapter to your switch, I don't know if the USB 3.0 port or USB 2.0 port matters though I use the USB 3.0 one as I plug the gamecube adapter into the two USB 2.0 ones on the side of the dock.

4. Connect one end of your ethernet cable to Switch ethernet adapter and the other end to your powerline near your switch. On your other powerline, connect an ethernet cable to that and the router.

4b. If you are using a network switch, connect your powerline, Nintendo switch and other devices to the network switch. The instruction sheet's diagram inside the box of my network switch showed that port 5 connected to the router and ports 1 - 4 connected to local devices. It shouldn't matter but doesn't hurt to follow what they give you as cheap network switches might be setup with a designated 'out' port.

5. Go to internet settings in your Nintendo Switch and select wired connection.

Woohoo now you have a stable connection to your router and can justifiably be annoyed at people online with poor connections, horray! (please note that this does not affect your internet connection outside of your local network. If you have an unstable internet connection your mileage may vary. If you play using a satellite internet connection please go back to playing online chess)
 

HYP

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
20
Location
Melbourne FL
NNID
hypster0628
Switch FC
SW-1631-9283-6619
I stopped trying with Ganon after running into Belmonts and other projectile scrubs. I picked up Rool and now I'm sitting pretty at 2.9 mil. I've kinda gone above the projectile campers as far as skill points are concerned so I don't really get matched with them. Only people that play for real (as far as wifi warriors go). The meta still is definitely to just cheese for GSP to get internet clout coins. Don't take Ultimate online seriously, go to IRL tournament for that.
 

Union of Darkness

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
555
Location
SoCal
It's disheartening to encounter so many projectile spammers. Samus, Robin, Wii Fit, Mewtwo, Link and even Inkling. Roll roll roll to the end of the stage and camp. When approached, roll, roll, roll. It's satisfying to punish their predictable actions so soundly. But it's still a drag.

Then you meet a random in a FFA that you can tell is good. When it's just down to you and them you finally feel like you're playing a competent person. And even when they beat you, you respect them. Don't play lame, friends. It's not interesting for anyone.
 

Mental Surge

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
143
Location
Canada
NNID
GisR FTG
3DS FC
4098-5877-7114
then played a game that was 1 stock. Nice to see online in this game is still a joke
 
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Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
6,389
Location
Baltimore, MD
NNID
Gambit.7
3DS FC
4313-0369-9934
Switch FC
SW-5498-4166-5599
I have been hosting my own FFA arenas. Same people and some new faces seem to keep coming back. Can honestly say hosting my own arena has been a blast and I think I will continue to do it.
 

perroloco

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
40
3DS FC
4398-9300-3061
So.. I just had a fight where there was no timestamp (No timer set I assumed) and then all of a sudden the 5,4,3,2,1 thing appeared... So now people can like hidden that the matches are timed matches?
 

mangojuice

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
23
Location
New York, NY
Ok, so Ridley does this down b thing similar to what yoshi has. Or at least i think i was fighting a Ridley. I have a cold and i'm on meds lol. He would land behind me, as I was shielding. As I turn around to punish with a grab, he rolls away. Is shield dropping that slow? Or am I doing something wrong. Should i have just punished with a tilt?

I was using C. Falcon.

Thanks in advance.
 

Luigifan18

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
3,134
Switch FC
SW-5577-0969-0868
That's Ridley's down air... I'll let someone more experienced and competent than me explain how to punish it.
 
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Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
Did he hit your shield? Shieldstun in this game is higher than it was in Smash 4.

You also need to consider your out of shield options. Normally a short hop out of shield into an aerial is faster than grabbing now. as Falcon you probably could have caught him behind you with a short hop back air, or maybe a reverse up B. Check this out for more detail on OOS options.
 

MG_3989

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
1,130
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-8397-3391-6411
I finally got a wired connection. My wireless was great running 100mbps download and 20mbps upload with low ping with my Switch set to highest priority but I still lagged for some reason. As soon as I plugged in that ethernet cord I can barely notice the lag anymore, it’s almost exactly like offline. I highly highly recommend a wired connection no matter how good your wireless is
 

Ξ◆ZENSHI◆Ξ

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Apr 5, 2018
Messages
19
Location
U.S.A EST
NNID
Johnnycay
Switch FC
4328-9272-3612
Almost everyone I fight in this game is better than me, I can't lab in training because the CPU's don't DI like human players would, so trying to train (for me) is impossible.

Not only that, but I used to play smash with the wiimote + nunchuck & they literally thanos'd that control option out of the game completely in favor of pandering to the competitive melee fans who only use gamecube controllers, because Nintendo knows they'll make a ton of money that way, so I was forced to play with joycons, which have a crap ton of input lag apparently.

There's also no reliable source available (that I can find) for information regarding combos & other helpful tidbits of information that can help me improve, and people just say "you get experience from playing the matchups" but I don't learn anything by getting three stocked by a littlemac. I know that you can review your replay footage and study it, but I don't have the general smash knowledge to point out my own flaws in the first place, so idk how that makes any sense?

I also seem to just react slower than other people do when getting rush downed by an aggressive player.

I'm so frustrated, am I slow? am I stupid? I don't know what to do to try and improve anymore, I feel like some people are just born with more talent than others at certain things at this point.

Big mood:
 

HYP

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
20
Location
Melbourne FL
NNID
hypster0628
Switch FC
SW-1631-9283-6619
Palutena is kinda broken. Neutral air can't really be contested by much in the game, on larger characters even with DI triple nair is true, the first couple hits can gimp, it's completely safe as an off stage option, back air is invincible from her waist up, explosive flame has a massive hitbox on explosion, up smash lingers for 30 frames, windboxes on down smash and forward smash on ledge make them very safe, up air lingers and has a hitbox the size of a football field which makes it completely safe to do when an opponent is falling especially since its coverage is extended by Palu's incredible air movement. Overall she could use a tuning DOWN. Not the Bayo treatment, just maybe allow DI to actually work on the nair, shorten up air by a few frames and make explosive frame have to be more precise.
 
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ALiBi212

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
40
Location
Western Massachusettes
NNID
ALiBi212
Almost everyone I fight in this game is better than me, I can't lab in training because the CPU's don't DI like human players would, so trying to train (for me) is impossible.
If you are in a situation where “almost everyone” is better than you, then DI is the least of your worries. I never formally train Smash, and barely ever visit training mode (I’m more casual than competitive), but I still hover at 2.9-3.3mil GSP with my roster.

Instead of focusing on combos and DI reads, I would highly recommend shifting your focus back to the basics. There are fundamental Smash principles that you may be neglecting which will bring your game up to the next level.

A great place to start is YouTube. Look up things like Smash Ultimate Beginners Guide or How to get better at Smash Ultimate. I know there are a ton of great videos there. My top recommendations would be ZeRo and Izaw. They both have videos “for beginners” that actually contain tons of next level strategy and minute gameplay mechanics which will really improve you fast. ZeRo has a great video about playing neutral as well.

I’m confident you’ll improve if you ease your mind about technical training. Best of luck with it!
 

FartyParty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
286
Location
New Jersey
Switch FC
SW-7316-5581-8026
...on the same day they release patch 2.0.0 lol

Man, Nintendo really, REALLY can't do online right.
 

Dark 3nergy

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
6,389
Location
Baltimore, MD
NNID
Gambit.7
3DS FC
4313-0369-9934
Switch FC
SW-5498-4166-5599
I had to close out a lobby because two players where my wasting time and my opponents time taunting. Dont do that. I wont allow people to come back to my ffa lobbies that want to waste time like that.
 

KingofPhantoms

The Spook Factor
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
33,493
Location
Southern California
3DS FC
1006-1145-8453
I'm not so concerned about lag anymore as I am with the game's matchmaking, but I've been hearing that that aspect of this game's online has been steadily improving, too. Is that true?

Because if it is, then I might as well get the subscription soon. I want to play against real players again (especially since I can't really go to tournaments, and even if I could, I'm not sure I'd be up for that any time soon. Plus, those are a occasional competitive event you have to attend rather than just something you casually start up and play whenever you have free time. Online's the best option for me to play with other players, as always.).
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Question: As I'm trying to get better at this game and my mentality, I've been saving my online replays as people suggested. They also suggested posting them on the forums for reviewing, which is good because I'm not all that knowledgeable with Smash play. But where exactly can I post them?
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
I've seen people make their own threads in General Discussion looking for match critique and it has gone over well.
 

Predatoria

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
361
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
Switch FC
SW-5219-6817-7975
I used to not notice it. When I first started playing Ultimate, I was very new to the game's mechanics. I loved playing online, and did tons of online matches to practice the basics like getting used to rebinding my jump to a bumper button, getting used to tilt stick, and getting used to just accessing my character's full array of moves. I played on a wifi connection and never noticed it. I'd go to friends houses and we'd do 2v2s online all the time and have a blast.

Lately, however, I've been playing several times a week in real life with friends, and have been learning a lot more stuff like teching platform landings, spot dodging, using reverse aerials, and stringing combos of moves together in sequence usually with somewhat tighter timings. I'm still pretty novice but feel like I've improved a whole lot over the past few months where I'd cheer if I managed to remember to use tilts properly over smashes.

I haven't touched online in a while, until tonight. And wow, I just couldn't get past the wall of input lag. I have an ethernet connection running to a very solid connection of whom I'm the only user in a populated, urban area. I should have a fantastic connection. I never remember it being an issue before.

I just couldn't get past this wall of lag today. It felt absolutely awful. I'd grab, down throw, and then I couldn't even short hop neutral air or anything and the timing was all off. It was almost like this fog of "I can't play right." After going like 0-5 and failing to do pretty much every move I wanted to do, including off-stage gimps (where I died instead by messing up my recovery several times) I kind of just gave up and said I can't tolerate online's lag any longer.

Has anyone else had this happen? Is it like maybe I've just gotten too used to playing in person and am having a hard time adjusting to online play again, or have other people here had this experience as well.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
There's just an adjustment period. Play a bunch more games online and you'll get the timings down again. Same way with moving from playing primarily online back to offline. It's harder to adapt back to online after playing mostly offline, imo.
 

Cauls

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
5
Before you say its lag, no, its not lag. A lot of times i play online i lose to teabaggers, spammers, you name it. Im in a smash discord. I play against experienced and skilled players. Players that fastfall, learn combos, all that fancy stuff. I actually beat those people. When i go online, I beat actually skilled people. Also when i go online, i CANT, I CANT beat spammers and skill less jerks. I played a mii gunner, all he did was spam the f smash that reaches across half the stage and the side b that releases 10 missles per second. I lost. I lose to bad people on there every day. “bUt CaUlS, iF yOu LoSe, ThEiR bEtTer ThAn You.” I know when i lose to a skillfull player, people that dont fastfall and stand still are bad. I lose to them. I think that ALOT OF THE PROBLEM is that when i ask to rematch they dont rematch and all im left with is depression. I dont learn anything. It sucks. I main lucas, and i dont spam pk fire or freeze. How can i learn to get past people that spam or just get carried by their character (Link spamming projectiles) Another problem is heavies. I cant get past Dk because he has huuuge range and little lag. Please help.

It would be appreciated if you could offer any help.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
There are a lot of players out there like this. You can beat some pretty skilled players but have issues with super basic, beginner strategies. You think they shouldn't work on you, but they do, and you don't know why. It's because you're accustomed to playing against good people, that you're looking for common habits that newbies and non-competitive players don't express. Good players don't sit and spam Mii Gunner's fsmash or missles. You can probably destroy a beginner competitive player, who's trying out actual competitive strategies, more than you can beat people who have no competitive experience and just do what works? Because that was me in a nutshell for a long time. I always felt that because I was "playing correctly" that I should get wins. I was super wrong. I dunno how many For Glory Samus players I lost to at the beginning of Smash 4 who just rolled to each ledge and spammed missiles and charge shot because I was trying to go for reads and cool tech and got hit by their crap. I was more concerned with how I wanted to play the game over playing the game that was presented to me to get the win. Back in the Brawl days, I watched pro videos and tried to copy them, but didn't always know why they were doing what they were doing. I just knew it worked on other pro players, so it would probably work for me. It was kind of like trying to build a house out of toothpicks and Elmer's glue over brick and mortar. It stood up until someone gave it a good kick, then it just fell apart entirely.

Don't try to outsmart them, but you can probably out-dumb them. Anything you would normally perceive as a bad move against competitive players, put it on the table as an option versus these guys. These people don't play neutral, they have no concept of it. Every move is basically as if they are in advantage or disadvantage, and nothing in between. I'm sure you've ran into the Link players who camp the ledge and play like a flowchart...Throw boomerang, shoot arrow, throw boomerang, shoot arrow, run in and dash attack when you try to jump over it to approach. That's the one thing they know, so you can generally get away with playing like an idiot otherwise. The thing that used to really bug me was the scrubby roll-behind crossup. Doing it made me feel like I was a bad player, so I never did it. I was always told you are better off shielding or rolling away if you need to roll at all. You never saw good players do this because it was generally a bad option against other good players. But...players with spammy and annoying strategies may not know how to deal with it. Or if they're spamming projectiles, just shield and spam projectiles back at them. PK Freeze them until they quit it. Absorb what you can and get free health back. Or reflect them until they actually decide to approach within your range, Lucas's fsmash reflects stuff. I've had people ragequit on me because I learned how to beat their main gimmick that nets them online wins and they don't know what else to do.

Heavies can be scary if they're good players. You have to be super careful with your spacing and move in to punish when they whiff their laggy stuff. Almost all superheavies in this game are susceptible to a good projectile game, and most of them have a really exploitable recovery that can be spiked. But if you're talking the DK players who just, like, do dash attacks all the time, you just need to jump over them and hit when they're in endlag. Those types of DKs are all over the place online. Just don't be afraid to use all of your ranged options.

There's a term for someone going into a game with zero prior knowledge about the game or how it works and being successful, just by doing what works over what they want to do. They have no habits at all, so they have no bad habits you can exploit. I honestly can't remember the term, but this may not always be the case, but it can be the case here and there.

I guess in short, don't fall prey to their trolly dumb stuff. Adapt to it as the game goes on, and counter their dumb stuff with your intentionally-dumb stuff while not forgetting your smart stuff like good shielding and edgeguarding. Also, maybe avoid quickplay if you don't want to deal with people not rematching. Join or make an arena and continue to play there.
 
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Megadoomer

Moderator
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
10,398
Switch FC
SW-0351-1523-9047
Does anyone have basic tips for how to play defensively? I'm terrible at that sort of thing (in most fighting games, I rarely if ever block), but I'm trying to complete the last two challenges in Smash Ultimate (play 100 quickplay matches and play 200 quickplay matches) without using hammers. (I've played 77 matches)

I'm trying to add some variety to playing 100+ matches by using every character in the roster at least twice (not sure how I'll handle the Pokemon Trainer, but I might count them as three separate characters), which probably doesn't help since I'm not familiar with a good chunk of the roster, but in the eight or nine matches that I played this morning, I was two-stocked pretty consistently (I think that's the right term).

It's not as frustrating for me as my attempts at playing Street Fighter V or League of Legends online were, but it's annoying when I can't figure out when to shield, dodge roll, or air dodge while my opponents know exactly when to do all of that, and when all of my attacks seem clunky and predictable compared to what the other players can pull off.
 
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Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
It may sound dumb, but try standing still. A lot of players are so accustomed to their opponent jumping around and dash dancing impatiently, that they sometimes don't know how to handle someone not moving at all. They might pick a super linear option and you can react to their whiffs/shield hits quicker because you're not committing to any action already.

Learning exactly when to shield, when to dodge, when to throw out an attack, and when to grab, takes time and patience. Try to focus more on the opponent than your own character to see what they're doing. If someone's just standing there holding shield, don't run in for an attack. Either grab if you're close enough, or fake out an approach to make them have to choose another defensive option or whiff an offensive move, then you can continue your pressure or punish their whiff.

My friend plays obscenely defensive, and it's hard not to be forced to play the game at his pace. I tend to get impatient with him and do something dumb when we play friendlies. He does a lot of dash dancing/walking the entire way across the stage from me, reads when I'm gonna come in, then dashes back and reacts to my commitment. It can be super frustrating to handle when you're just trying to play.

Since you're using all the characters though...it may have something to do with it. My play with some of the more 'traditional' Smash characters is a lot less clunky than some of the ones with more 'modernized' playstyles (Bayo, Shotos, etc). Then there are some I can't get a feel for at all and just get annoyed that I can't play how I like when I use them. I've come to terms I can't (and don't want to) be competitive with everyone, so I don't really try to. It's a hefty task to surmount upon oneself, especially since the people you're playing online are going to be focusing on honing a smaller repertoire of characters. A lot of which they've fought most of the cast with before, and know how to handle their attacks.
 
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Taskmaster

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
2
If you choose Omega stages in quickplay and you have people self-destructing after the first kill, it's not because you're good. It's because Omega stages are easily opted away from in tournaments, so there is no point in wasting the time, just so you can think you have any semblance of skill. Sooooo many characters have horribly unfair advantages on flat stages. And most of you prove it by just spamming the move that gives you the advantage. So, if you strictly play on Omega stages, then you probably suck, is the main theme of the small paragraph above. Thank you, good day. Lucas Ultimate GSP : 4,670,533.
 
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