Smash Ultimate Gameplay: What Changes You Want? Discussion

[Thatonehelper]

Hey guys,



There are obviously many, many changes people would want in the game.

Of course, many changes would need to be play tested for your ideal game.

What would you like to add or take out of Ultimate? How about Smash in general?

Discuss!

Spoiler: Here are a list of changes I would change to the Smash Ultimate Demo build:

*Does not include character specific changes* I know we all have many of those

-Assuming the game plays at 60FPS-

IDEAL FOR SMASH ULTIMATE: A game that is fast paced and centered around high movement ability and heavy punishment; which is obtained through rewarding and balanced movement options and combo tools.

==============================
CAST WIDE STANDARDIZATION OF THE CAST

-I do not want any character to feel especially slow compared to the average fighter in terms of mechanics-

• Standardize archetypes of standard moves and defensive options (not just jump squat frames and aerial landing lag)
  • ***Attacks that use the B button (specials) are not standardized but have unique properties
  • **Attacks that involve the A button and are very similar will be standardized
• Uniformity of initial dash animations, turn around/skid animations, and braking/stopping out of run
  • Initial dash animations must be between 9-18 frames long for increased dash dance viability.
  • Turn around animations must be exactly 17 frames (can act after 17 frames) so characters can act fairly quickly while still obtaining momentum while players have a generous window for using RAR. This will increase the viability of dashing away.
  • Characters must be able to stop and act after 8-10 frames of the braking animation. This will make dash approaches a much stronger option.
• (Rolls, Spot dodges, and air dodges) Defensive options of the same type have the same frame data
  • Includes ledge getup options
  • Same intangibility, punish window, and speed

=================
LIMITATIONS ON MOVES

• All A button attacks must be useful
  • They all must meet at least 1 of these requirements:
    • 1. Has combo ability (mostly aimed at up and down tilts)
    • 2. reliably kills heavyweights over 150% from center stage (mostly aimed at smash attacks)
    • 3. needs to have a hitbox at frame 6 or faster that is safe when spaced on shield (mostly aimed at Ftilts and jabs)
• Each character must have at least 1 kill throw or throw kill confirm
• Frame data limitations on certain move types
  • Jabs must come out by frame 1-5. Maybe 6 at max.
  • Aerial hitboxes must come out by frame 3-15. Maybe 17 at max.
  • Tilts must come out by frame 3 to 11. Maybe 13 max.
  • Smash attacks must have their hitbox out by frame 8 to 18. Maybe 20 max.

======================================
CHANGES TO EXISTING MECHANICS

• Character models pop out more
  • It is hard to see your character in the demo. A change is needed to make it easier to find and recognize your character
• Toning down of smoke effects
  • Smoke needs to be less obvious and distracting.
  • The smoke accompanies almost every animation in the game. Very obvious on landing, tilts, smash attacks, dashing, shielding, and knockback.
• (test) Remove Balloon Knockback
  • Replace for knockback of previous smash titles
• Change settings to High Gravity
  • Comparable to that of Melee and 64
  • Higher gravity than Smash 4
  • Much higher than Brawl
  • This change makes recovering back to the stage harder for most of the cast
  • Makes getting back to the ground faster
  • Speeds up the game by making it easier to KO opponents
• Change settings to High Hit stun
  • Comparable to that of Melee
  • Much higher than Brawl
  • Much lower than 64
  • Higher than Smash 4
  • High hit stun will enable a good amount of combo strings and great prominence of the punish game
  • Speeds up the game by making it easier to KO opponents
• Characters can run past each other
  • Surprise option
  • Makes pivot grab approaches more viable
  • In a game where every character has decent ground speed, this is an important factor
• Shields no longer stop movement
  • Characters can run through an opponent’s shield
    • Easier to play around an opponent's shield. Can retake stage control if they are shielding.
    • Makes pivot grab approaches more viable. Especially for faster characters.
  • Characters can roll through an opponent's shield
    • Can surprise opponents with roll
    • Movement should be important for all smash fighters
  • All specials that cause burst movement will be able to pass through shields
    • Movement should be important for all Smash fighters
    • Examples: Fox illusion, sonic spin dash
• Rapid jabs will have higher SDI multipliers
  • Currently, rapid jabs easily trap their victims in shield
  • Change so SDI multiplier is similar to Smash 4. However, characters should not be able to jump out of jabs.
• Wave dashing and wave landing implemented (directional air dodge into the ground at the correct time)
  • Increase skill gap for hardcore players
  • Increases movement options for every character
  • Increases the speed of the game
• Air dodging into the ground has exactly 12 frames of lag on it unless it is a wave dash
  • Air dodging poorly should be punishable
• Directional airdodging offstage will have less end lag. Instead of have over 60 frames of end lag, the end lag will be reduced to 30 frames
  • Reduce self-destructs
• Almost all special moves do NOT put characters into freefall
  • That’s right. This includes the vast majority up specials as well.
  • To balance this, these specific special moves cannot be used again until the character grabs ledge or touches the ground. Also, most of them will have around 13? frames of ending lag before the user will be able to act. Will need testing.
  • The first actionable frame cannot be more than 30 frames after the hitbox comes out.
  • This change increases the amount of recovery options and chasing opportunities

=======================
NEW MECHANICS

• Add many special inputs on fighters
  • For custom moves
• All fighters can dash cancel charge animations in the air (only in the air)
  • Dash cancel just like Ryu
  • Examples: Mario’s Fludd, Squirtle’s Water gun, Lucario’s aura sphere, Sheik’s needles, Luigi’s green missile, Wii fit’s deep breathing, sonic’s spincharge, homing attack, and spinshot
• (test) Have a miniscule window where ledge hogging is available
  • There is a 2-3 frame window where another character cannot grab the ledge right after another character has grabbed the ledge
  • Adds a level of technical depth and skill for hardcore players
  • May be a bad idea, causing more problems than it solves. Worth testing.
    • Players will probably call it janky, similar to footstools being unable to be teched in Smash 4
• (test) Introduce a hidden re-grab meter/gauge/bar for grab armor
  • This mechanic would allow chain grabs up to a certain limit before being unable to regrab a character for a certain amount of time
  • I would set the limit at 1 chain grab before receiving 60 frames of grab armor
  • The meter counts down automatically after a grab and it increases each time the character is grabbed
  • The next time they are grabbed within 2 seconds (countdown), the grab invulnerability window increases to 60 frames

 

[Orlando BCN]

I think the rage mechanic should be removed. Honestly, I've never had problems with it, but I can see where many people are coming from on the issue. There shouldn't be any special gimmicks to make you last longer in the match.

What REALLY needs to happen are selectable Final Smashes. Think of it as a custom move, but you can select it when you choose your character; kinda like selecting a Super Art in SF3. That way, you can use a different Final Smash that suits you more rather than the default one, and it gives Final Smashes that have been previously cut an opportunity to return.

 

[Frizz]

Nothing major, honestly.

Just a hooded alt for Robin that replaces his Female Robin alts, larger hitboxes for Robin's Bronze Sword (so that it has some benefits over using the Levin Sword), and the return of custom moves. They don't have to be completely different moves like Palutena's and the Mii's—I'd be fine with them being simple alternations.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Make it as fast and competitive as Melee.

 

[Iancineroar]

I'd like a mechanic similar to Super mario maker where you can change the animation style.
ie. 8bit 16bit 64bit and Hd

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I would make kills off the top 100% free from randomness in game play.

I would work it as Star KOs happening most of the time with a small chance of a Screen KO. Screen KOs are increased in length to match Star KOs. This randomness would be okay because it's visual only. Blast KOs off the top would never happen except in predictable and fair situations.

 

[Luigifan18]

I would make kills off the top 100% free from randomness in game play.

I would work it as Star KOs happening most of the time with a small chance of a Screen KO. Screen KOs are increased in length to match Star KOs. This randomness would be okay because it's visual only. Blast KOs off the top would never happen except in predictable and fair situations.

This is what Smash 4 should have done. I have no clue why they thought random Blast KOs were a good thing.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

All things I or other people have suggested:

• The rage mechanic should only apply to characters above a certain weight, or characters they think would be balanced because of it.
• Team final smashes: In a team match, when 2 or more fighters are of the same series (they can be the same fighter), in some way, shape, or form have the potential to KO all onscreen opponents.
• Bayo still needs to be nerfed
• Hooded alt for Robin
• Red/Blue/Green/etc. alt colors for all Male/Female Robin skins (16 total)
• P2 amiibo for Robin, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, and Wario
• Balloon physics should not be removed
• Every fighter has a stage in correlation with them, i.e., Sonic has Green Hill Zone, Yoshi has Yoshi's Story, etc. Just a way of showing where every fighter comes from. There can still be excess stages.
• Individual victory themes
• Individual fighter symbols
• Add shield specials, 5th special move type
• All background/item animations are 60fps
• If you're losing badly, your respawn invincibility frames are increased (an option that can be toggled)
• More passive effects for fighters (like Cloud's limit)
• Re-releasing of all non Smash series amiibo that are still compatible with Smash (Kirby series Meta Knight, Super Mario series Donkey Kong, etc.)
• Overall balancing so no fighter has a natural or unfair advantage over another

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

This is what Smash 4 should have done. I have no clue why they thought random Blast KOs were a good thing.

You probably misinterpreted what I said. I stated that random Blast KOs are a thing that needs change. Going back to the Smash 4 method is the last thing I want right now. I outright said they would never happen in the changes I wanted to implement.

When I said "except in predictable and fair situations", I was referring to situations where both you definitively know the Blast KO is going to happen, and where it is the fair method of off the top kills. Some examples include...
- A person dying off the top on their last stock in a FFA or a 1v1 stock match.
- A person dying off the top while losing their team's last stock in a team stock match.
- That small window of time in a timed match where a Star KO wouldn't be fast enough to confirm the kill.
- The entirety of a Sudden Death.

I'm not saying there's more out there, but that's really all the fair situations I can think of at the present moment.

 

[Luigifan18]

You probably misinterpreted what I said. I stated that random Blast KOs are a thing that needs change. Going back to the Smash 4 method is the last thing I want right now. I outright said they would never happen in the changes I wanted to implement.

When I said "except in predictable and fair situations", I was referring to situations where both you definitively know the Blast KO is going to happen, and where it is the fair method of off the top kills. Some examples include...
- A person dying off the top on their last stock in a FFA or a 1v1 stock match.
- A person dying off the top while losing their team's last stock in a team stock match.
- That small window of time in a timed match where a Star KO wouldn't be fast enough to confirm the kill.
- The entirety of a Sudden Death.

I'm not saying there's more out there, but that's really all the fair situations I can think of at the present moment.

No, I was saying what you were saying was how Smash 4 should have handled top-blast-line KOs. Either Star or Screen, but not Blast most of the time, Star and Screen KOs taking the same amount of time (this is the bit Smash 4 did right), and switching to Blast at the closing moments of a match (final stock/last 5 seconds).

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Also I forgot to mention, you should be able to cancel a Smash attack with a shield.

 

[MAtgSy]

should be able to use his tongue as a tether recovery move. Why is this not a thing yet?

 

[TheYungLink]

If the Wi-Fi waiting room still has you wailing on Sandbag while waiting for your opponent, you should be able to finally grab Sandbag.

No idea why this wasn't in previous entries.

 

[Luigifan18]

If the Wi-Fi waiting room still has you wailing on Sandbag while waiting for your opponent, you should be able to finally grab Sandbag.

No idea why this wasn't in previous entries.

Grabbing Sandbag was a thing in Melee, but not in any later titles. Probably because Sandbag's treated as an item rather than a character now.