Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Calane]

@ J Jakenimbus

@Dyamanttine

I don't disagree with you guys, but I believe Nintendo would be interested in increasing DQ's western popularity as well. While Sora would potentially sell more, I don't think DQ would sell necessarily poorly either. I see it as a win-win for everyone involved, but I could be wrong. That's just how I see it.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

WOAH! Doc has a new Back Throw!

That's awesome! He just HURLS them away.

No need for spinning, just get outta here!

Yeah, I saw it. It had unusually much base knockback for a bthrow; it really moved the victim a large distance across the stage at 0%. Unfortunately we didn't see it used at higher percents to see if it's just a kill throw all around or if Doc has some weird properties with those throws going on now. The faster animation mostly isn't too big of a deal; it does make it harder to DI correctly so it's a positive but not a big game changing positive.

 

[Deleted member]

I uhhhh.. Went overboard.

 

[Blargg888]

So now that we have a good view of Dracula's Castle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4BHD_4sIw
Do any of you think it could be competitively viable?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Yeah, Kirby, why not take it like a boss? Wii Fit Trainer went out doing the thing she loved.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

He treated Mega Man better than Capcom did and Capcom straightened up soon after..

True, but I fear Konami is already too far gone to redeem themselves anymore. They gave Kojima the boot and alienated fans by s***ing all over Metal Gear. Igarashi has moved on to Bloodstained, so aside from cashing in on nostalgia with ports and the Netflix show, Castlevania is pretty much dead too. Why Konami?... You used to be one of the greats...

Thank God for Sakurai, he's at least doing some of my favorite franchises justice.

 

[N3ON]

But dude, it's free... Why wouldn't you take it without it?

Still haven't made my mind up yet, but the character doesn't really do anything for me.

The best part about DLC is you don't have to include characters you don't much care for.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Galeem and Thanos teamed up. It'd end in an argument.

"Half! I said half of them not all of them you monster!"

Someone please make that into fanart.

 

[SSGuy]

So I went to re-watch the Direct to just check and see what has been listed and during the assist trophy, one character that totally slipped my mind earlier was Akira from Virtua Fighter. I found that choice really strange choice to put in. I mean he was overshadowed by Guile of all characters. However, it then hit me. He was a Mii Costume in Smash Wii U/3DS! So I went digging for more information....And here is what I found.

I have gone ahead and crossed out every single Mii Fighter from this list that has a tangible role in Ultimate. This includes characters that appear as a playable character, an assist trophy, a stage hazard or apart of another character's moveset. They have all been crossed out. Which leaves us with a total of 8 unused Mii Costumes. From top to bottom, this list includes:

Jackie (Virtua Fighter)
Geno (Super Mario RPG)
Chocobo (Final Fantasy Series)
Monster Hunter's Rathalos Set
Monster Hunter's Hunter Set
Gil (Tower of Druaga)
Tails (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Heihachi (Tekken)
Lloyd (Tales Series)

I am leaving out character appearances as Spirits for a few reasons, but to make the situation easier to understand, we don't fully know what characters are actually included in Spirits mode. I can provide a further break down of my theory with Spirits Mode and why that does not deconfirm a character appearing. (More than likely, every character on this list is going to appear as one. There are Assist Trophies and Playable Characters that are confirmed to be Spirits as well so it should never be counted. I think these parallel to Brawl Stickers from Subspace since they also could alter your character's stats for offline only)

Regardless, there are three characters from this list that stand out the most to me. These include starting from most likely, Heihachi, Geno and Lloyd.

Heihachi or Lloyd are a given considering Namco's sole representative is Pacman. They might be interested in having more representation and to also have a fighting game already being represented from both Capcom and SEGA, they might want a piece of that action with Tekken. Heihachi has been speculated for a while and is probably the most likely pick from this. Lloyd is also a character to consider, however it really comes down to how they would like the ToS franchise represented. While I might not know a whole lot, I would assume Lloyd but I have heard elsewhere that characters like Yuri are most popular in Japan. (If someone could correct me, I would greatly appreciate that.

Lastly, we have Geno. A character with heavy speculation this game and has everyone and their mom predicting will make Ultimate. Geno managed to survive the Assist Trophy rampage that Black Knight, Akira and Skull Kid received, but he also was not really seen anywhere aside from a player token/avatar for an online room. With his demand, it could be a possibility that he could still appear. Both he and Heihachi are my most likely picks at this rate.


In regards to the rest on this list, I think they have particular reasons for not being included. I could argue that Tails and MH are already in the game in some way (with the Green Hill loop or Rathalos assist) but it doesn't seem a big enough reason to justify taking them off yet. Knuckles makes this confusing.

Gil is technically in the same boat as Geno, but what is keeping him behind is that he does not have the demand or fandom that Geno has behind him.

Chocobo and Jackie are not out of the question either but both of them seem to have their representation already made for them. I don't think we would see a playable VF character anytime soon.

I believe there is still some kind of pattern going with Mii Costumes. They are being used in multiple ways and I don't think just being represented as a Spirit will justify most of them. So with that being said, and all the previous information being discussed, list for DLC characters goes like this:

1) Geno
2) Heihachi
3) Banjo-Kazooie
4) Rayman
5) Elma

(these would not be in any particular order but I think this would be the most well rounded list going forward)

What do you guys think? Do I have some kind of lead here?

Edit: I also want to include that each of these characters need a specific stage included with them which all 5 of my decisions cover.

 

[Blargg888]

Oh, it looks like the Belmonts have a rapid jab as well.
I wasn't expecting that.

 

[DT Raw]

I want sub zero for DLC plz

 

[Michael the Spikester]

1) Geno
2) Heihachi
3) Banjo-Kazooie
4) Rayman
5) Elma

I truly hope your right. It's got two of my most current wants Banjo and Elma.

 

[Zinith]

I just want to know how my boi got caught by Galeem. I hope it was respectful...

 

[Moon Monkey]

I'm not sure if anyone mention this but here is a silhouette of Luigi using his Vaccum as a grab. From the silhouette i'm guessing it is a long ranged grab as opposed to him only using the vacuum for directional throw attacks

 

[Pizzanigs]

And Banjo’s been requested since Melee. He’s definitely the most requested third party from everything I’ve seen.

Banjo's also been considered by Sakurai in passing while making Melee. And I don't think that bit about Sora being heavily requested during Brawl times is true lol, the most I've seen his name mentioned in Smash speculation is the past week

 

[Deleted member]

If Galeem and Thanos teamed up. It'd end in an argument.

"Half! I said half of them not all of them you monster!"

Galeem: "Well you are not part of my team then."
Thanos: *Powers up Infinity Gauntlet* "You made a huge mistak~
*Thanos dies*
Galeem: ...
Galeem: I mean, Thanos did play his role by listening to the script, right?

 

[Shroob]

My guess for DLC is:


3 3rd Parties, 2 Nintendo IPs


Sora
Steve?
Lloyd
Elma
Waddle Dee

 

[Will]

But he has no personality or expression or voice. That's my point. He's recognizable, but he's not fleshed out. There's not a single thing he does that conveys any amount of individuality. Look at all the characters in Ultimate. All of their animations and expressions and sounds convey large amounts of personality, including the ones that don't have faces. Steve is incapable of doing any of that. He can swing his arm and grunt. That's it.

What's the personality here?

Steve has is identity: the player. The avatar. He's the love child of the Miis (who I didn't mention is just as "bland") and the Roblox default body type.

Unless you go the Story Mode route and give him creepy eyes and a mouth, but then that wouldn't be Steve. You might as well get Jesse or whoever at that point instead.

No, that'd be Herobrine.

What would his moveset be, anyways? Sword, bow, bucket...?

I love me a good "can't get in cause no moveset potential" claim. Do you want me to make one up for you?

But I just don't think there's enough to draw from to make Steve work. Pac-Man and Piranha Plant had dozens of appearances to work from. Duck Hunt brought in all the other Zapper games. Steve only has Minecraft, and doesn't have a lot there for him.

There's definitely a lot in Minecraft to use. More than you think, anyway. But that's your opinion, man.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Galeem: "Well you are not part of my team then."
Thanos: *Powers up Infinity Gauntlet* "You made a huge mistak~
*Thanos dies*
Galeem: ...
Galeem: I mean, Thanos did play his role by listening to the script, right?

Honestly I think Thanos snapping his fingers would have more reaction time before Galeem's beam hits him.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly I think Thanos snapping his fingers would have more reaction time before Galeem's beam hits him.

You are missing the point.

 

[Roberk]

I wanna believe.
If sheer willpower was all it took to promote an AT, she would've gotten in ten times over.

But no, it's probably not happening.

Lyn's earned being playable more than every FE character except Marth but people would still complain if she got in tbh.

 

[Dan]

That's a mighty fine terribly outdated and humiliating signature and avatar you're pressing, fam.

Relax; sorry I had to go be a productive member of society and just rolled home.

Has nothing to do with my post either, fam.

I think I'll keep it too, cause it just shows that two random French dudes are better at picking characters than Sakurai.

 

[StrawHatX]

DLC 1: Octorok
DLC 2: Bullet Bill
DLC 3: Fire Emblem Soldier
DLC 4: Spiny
DLC 5: Dark Marth

 

[Michael the Spikester]

You are missing the point.

Ah okay I gotcha now.

 

[Jakenimbus]

@ J Jakenimbus

@Dyamanttine

I don't disagree with you guys, but I believe Nintendo would be interested in increasing DQ's western popularity as well. While Sora would potentially sell more, I don't think DQ would sell necessarily poorly either. I see it as a win-win for everyone involved, but I could be wrong. That's just how I see it.

Yeah I see it a different way but I totally understand what you are saying. I can totally see all of your points and a possibility of DQ in the game. The thing that I don’t feel is I don’t think it is a smart idea to try and break a game into the western market via another game and not the true game itself. To me I feel that the game should break the western market by their own game and not using dlc in smash as a way, cause it wouldn’t attract as many people. I cold be wrong and it works well but I just think people aren’t going to bite the bullet and pay the 6$ for something unfamiliar to them and thus both companies lose out. I don’t know if I am just bias but I personally think Sora is the way to go.

 

[Will]

Relax; sorry I had to go be a productive member of society and just rolled home.

Has nothing to do with my post either, fam.

I think I'll keep it too, cause it just shows that two random French dudes are better at picking characters than Sakurai.

Slow down, don't act like I'm about to lynch you over the Grinch.
Also wow that's the most salty **** move against Sakurai, I know whose 60 dollars I'm stealing.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Ooo, can I finally try?
4. Mike Jones: Coracola Island

Why would they add in a literal who?

 

[sandslash]

I want to say
geno
banjo kazooie
bandana dee
dixie kong
sora

but realistically I think we only get two of these at most.

 

[SvartWolf]

I dunno about challenge, Pacman was designed on Pac Man World and his moves were pretty logically pacman. And Duck Hunt was a Salute to the NES Zapper, Not hard to do. Anything can be a fighter and today we were proved that definitvely.. That said it makes the fact some characters are in Assist Trophy hell still even sadder cuz if ANY character can be made a fighter.. Then its a matter of not wanting rather than not knowing.

my point is that he isnt going to go the easy route and put something that doesn't work "for the lulz"... even jokes are going to have care and though put into them. he could easily gone teh easy route with pacman and put him some generic plataformer moves of his more less succesful plataforming entries. but he went full needs to be the iconic arcade pacman, and didnt mind designing a character based on a ton of traps and setups, even if in reality, just having a simple fruit as a projectile would have been enough for most of the fanbase.
he neither is afraid of getting some stuff the character doesnt originally does if it still fits teh character and helps developing him. like with duck hunt dog and the cans. and... duck hunt ? not hard to do? honestly most of the fan made moveset ideas for duck hunt dog pre smash 4 were... pretty boring.
Sometimes like captain falcon who can ooze personality, a simple moveset might work, but if the character needs more personality, his moveset will certainly have it in order to achieve quality.

He is not going to put a boring and turd looking character into the game, "just because".

 

[kylexv]

We know that the DLC has at least been planned since August.

Stage Select screen had 6 empty slots in the August Direct and still does. 6 DLC characters with 6 DLC stages. Bada bing bada boom.

 

[Good Guy Giygas]

So I went to re-watch the Direct to just check and see what has been listed and during the assist trophy, one character that totally slipped my mind earlier was Akira from Virtua Fighter. I found that choice really strange choice to put in. I mean he was overshadowed by Guile of all characters. However, it then hit me. He was a Mii Costume in Smash Wii U/3DS! So I went digging for more information....And here is what I found.

View attachment 174921

I have gone ahead and crossed out every single Mii Fighter from this list that has a tangible role in Ultimate. This includes characters that appear as a playable character, an assist trophy, a stage hazard or apart of another character's moveset. They have all been crossed out. Which leaves us with a total of 8 unused Mii Costumes. From top to bottom, this list includes:

Jackie (Virtua Fighter)
Geno (Super Mario RPG)
Chocobo (Final Fantasy Series)
Monster Hunter's Rathalos Set
Monster Hunter's Hunter Set
Gil (Tower of Druaga)
Tails (Sonic the Hedgehog)
Heihachi (Tekken)
Lloyd (Tales Series)

I am leaving out character appearances as Spirits for a few reasons, but to make the situation easier to understand, we don't fully know what characters are actually included in Spirits mode. I can provide a further break down of my theory with Spirits Mode and why that does not deconfirm a character appearing. (More than likely, every character on this list is going to appear as one. There are Assist Trophies and Playable Characters that are confirmed to be Spirits as well so it should never be counted. I think these parallel to Brawl Stickers from Subspace since they also could alter your character's stats for offline only)

Regardless, there are three characters from this list that stand out the most to me. These include starting from most likely, Heihachi, Geno and Lloyd.

Heihachi or Lloyd are a given considering Namco's sole representative is Pacman. They might be interested in having more representation and to also have a fighting game already being represented from both Capcom and SEGA, they might want a piece of that action with Tekken. Heihachi has been speculated for a while and is probably the most likely pick from this. Lloyd is also a character to consider, however it really comes down to how they would like the ToS franchise represented. While I might not know a whole lot, I would assume Lloyd but I have heard elsewhere that characters like Yuri are most popular in Japan. (If someone could correct me, I would greatly appreciate that.

Lastly, we have Geno. A character with heavy speculation this game and has everyone and their mom predicting will make Ultimate. Geno managed to survive the Assist Trophy rampage that Black Knight, Akira and Skull Kid received, but he also was not really seen anywhere aside from a player token/avatar for an online room. With his demand, it could be a possibility that he could still appear. Both he and Heihachi are my most likely picks at this rate.


In regards to the rest on this list, I think they have particular reasons for not being included. I could argue that Tails and MH are already in the game in some way (with the Green Hill loop or Rathalos assist) but it doesn't seem a big enough reason to justify taking them off yet. Knuckles makes this confusing.

Gil is technically in the same boat as Geno, but what is keeping him behind is that he does not have the demand or fandom that Geno has behind him.

Chocobo and Jackie are not out of the question either but both of them seem to have their representation already made for them. I don't think we would see a playable VF character anytime soon.

I believe there is still some kind of pattern going with Mii Costumes. They are being used in multiple ways and I don't think just being represented as a Spirit will justify most of them. So with that being said, and all the previous information being discussed, list for DLC characters goes like this:

1) Geno
2) Heihachi
3) Banjo-Kazooie
4) Rayman
5) Elma

(these would not be in any particular order but I think this would be the most well rounded list going forward)

What do you guys think? Do I have some kind of lead here?

Edit: I also want to include that each of these characters need a specific stage included with them which all 5 of my decisions cover.

Chocobo confirmed (as a Piranha Plant Echo)

 

[KingofKoopas]

Why would they add in a literal who?

Why did they add the character in your profile pic

 

[doomedtacox]

So is there stage builder at all?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Who do I WANT as DLC?

Geno
Dillon
Blastoise
Banjo Kazooie
Dixie Kong
Skull Kid

Who do I expect?

IDK. I don't have a clue. I'll just have to see what they do.

 

[Will]

So is there stage builder at all?

Wasn't Stage Builder shown in August?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Also, about Steve being a generic avatar?

Um, have you seen the Mii's, WFT, and Villager?

Not to mention, Mario and Link lacked a personality until more recent games. Hell, Samus was mostly silent as well.

Anyone who isn't significant in the pokemon anime are generic as well (sorry Pichu).

Also, look at the ****ing first DLC character. It's a ****ing Piranha Plant that typically have little personality besides "Rawr me kill you" AND is a generic mook.

Also, Mr. Game & Watch.

Moveset potential + generic avatars + lacking personality quite frankly are just personal nitpicks and aren't actual arguments; this much is seen throughout Sakurai's decisions that directly assault these views.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

Why did they add the character in your profile pic

It was a character no one expected but the one we deserved, sort of like Wii Fit Trainer. Piranha Plant is incredibly iconic and well-known.

 

[Diem]

What's the personality here?


No, that'd be Herobrine.


I love me a good "can't get in cause no moveset potential" claim. Do you want me to make one up for you?


There's definitely a lot in Minecraft to use. More than you think, anyway. But that's your opinion, man.

The personality in Piranha Plant? In his taunts and moves, like the way he ducks into his pot. As I said, sounds and animations can give a character personality. Petey Piranha had personality all the way back in Sunshine for the same reasons. I'm pretty sure that's part of why Sakurai chose him. He brings a unique personality to the table, like Isabelle and Incineroar do. As opposed to Steve, who has zero personality.

Game & Watch and Wii Fit Trainer are also great examples of unconventional characters being given great personality through their animations and sound effects. Steve has only a handful of animations, and only one sound effect.

Thinking about it more, there is more moveset potential: TNT, Redstone stuff, etc. I can see the potential, but without personality, he's still missing a vital component about what makes a Smash character.

 

[perfectchaos83]

You guys think if there was enough demand, Sakurai would upgrade an assist trophy in DLC?

If this is what you want then Make your voice loud and clear. I want Ashley in Smash and Best case scenario is this game simply because it's a once in a lifetime kind of game. This Game will have a loooong ass life and they already snubbed most potential Nintendo DLC candidates. God Knows I'll be campaining hard for AT promotions for Ashley's sake.

 

[Deleted member]

Here is what I consider the most likely DLC additions:

Banjo-Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Dante, Doom Slayer, Geno, Hero, Sora and Steve.

I feel like there is enough evidence to support all of these being the most likely picks. Now the question is, which of these five will end up as the DLC.

Add Ryu Hayabusa, and you have a solid list of third parties.