Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[PsychoIncarnate]

So what's the actual backing behind this "Big 5" leak? Anyway, my take.

Incineroar: I was hoping for Decidueye or Tapu Koko, but given I tend to like heavy grappler style characters I'm ok with him.
Skull Kid: Admittedly I'm not a huge LoZ fan, but I think of all the characters in the series that isn't Link, Zelda, or Ganon in a different outfit, he's probably the most deserving.
Isaac: Again, never played Golden Sun so I can't really say I'm pumped, but good for his fans.
Geno: Bueno. Also never played SMRPG, but his fanbase has convinced me that he's a pretty gnarly character. Though I personally woulda preferred Paper Mario.
Banjo-Kazooie: This has got to be the one that gets revealed at the next direct. He's the "holy **** the madmen actually did it" character.

Is this a leak people are discussing?

I thought it was just the popular names going around

 

[Chrono.]

No, it's because of his design. It looks too much like Ness. And, any attempt at redesigning him (especially with his appearance in that old Mother 1 ad) would bring a myriad of legal issues because it's fan made content.

So why wasn't this a problem when they redesigned Pit?

 

[-crump-]

There ya go.
https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-ultimate-discussion.434391/post-22352050

Interesting, but at the same time, they weren’t the first or only person to say any of this. All of those characters were pretty big names in the speculation scene after E3, and Ridley was being talked about a ton beforehand. I don’t see a reason to put faith in this, but that’s just me.
Thanks for sharing, though, I appreciate it!

 

[Zinith]

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

Before 1990: Prof. Hector (Stack-Up, 1985)
1990-1994: Mike Jones (StarTropics, 1990)
1995-1999: BOSHI!!! (Super Mario RPG, 1996)
2000-2004: Skull Kid (The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
2005-2009: Dimentio (Super Paper Mario, 2007)
2010-2014: Ghirahim (The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, 2011)
2015-present: Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X, 2015)

 

[RileyXY1]

There's almost zero difference betwern him and Ness anyway

Yeah. At most, Ninten would be a random trophy.

 

[blazefan519]

While I can't speak for everyone, I only used the Boring 5 term because you see them everywhere and in every leak. I wasn't trying to undermine the character's importance or the fans that appreciate them. So I guess we're changing it to Fab Five "tm"

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah. At most, Ninten would be a random trophy.

There's almost zero difference between Pit and Dark Pit anyway!
Can you stick with the "legal issues" argument instead of hopping to this?
Hope I don't sound too rude but you never know. Keep hoping.

 

[Untouch]

I feel like adding Ninten would just be adding a character to fill out a list.
Ness and Lucas were added for a reason, Ninten wouldn't.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

There's almost zero difference between Pit and Dark Pit anyway!
Can you stick with the "legal issues" argument instead of hopping to this?
Hope I don't sound too rude but you never know. Keep hoping.

Dark Pit shouldn't have been added

 

[KMDP]

My thoughts on the 5 hot properties now:

• Isaac - I know nothing about Golden Sun, but I enjoy his look and I'm pretty intrigued to see how he'd play.
• Skull Kid - One of my most wanted, he feels likely but only barely. I'll be ecstatic if they actually pull the trigger.
• Geno - Similar to Isaac, I never played SMRPG and don't have any real interest to right now. I wouldn't mind seeing him make it, but I will admit that his moveset doesn't interest me too much personally.
• Banjo & Kazooie - He's alright. I didn't grow up with Banjo as I was mostly a Playstation kid (but I did own an N64). I did play a little of the first Banjo game last year and I actually liked what I played, in a lot ways feels like a way more polished Mario 64. But anyways I'm getting off topic...
• Incineroar - My favorite Pokemon. Yeah I'd be pretty happy.

In level of interest they'd rank: Skull Kid > Incineroar > Isaac > Banjo > Geno

For me it's Isaac > Incineroar > Skull Kid > Banjo > Geno

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

Pre 1990: Fighter/Warrior of Light (first game - Final Fantasy - 1987)
Early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
Late 90's: Tifa Lockhart (first game - Final Fantasy VII, 1997)
Early 00's: Isaac (first game - Golden Sun, 2001
Late 00's: *
Early 10's: Asuka (first game - Senran Kagura, 2011)
Contemporary: *

*Late 00's and the "Now Era" are tough for me. Thinking about it, I've realised that most of the stuff I played/am playing during these times were either pre-existing franchises or licensed games (or the characters I'd want from the eras are already in the game).

The only character I'd go for from the Late 00's is Raiden from Metal Gear, but he actually debuted earlier than MGS4, so...

 

[Paperchampion23]

They would either have to use his original design, which is nearly indistinguishable from Ness, or redesign him, which they can't do for legal reasons because it would look like a design made by the fans.

????? This actually doesn't make any sense lmao.

 

[Garteam]

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

Pre-1990: Ayumi (Famicom Detective Club - 1988)
Early 90's: Mega Man X (Mega Man X - 1993)
Late 90's: Geno (Super Mario RPG - 1996, althought this is kinda in that awkward period between mid and late 1990s)
Early 00's: Eight (Dragon Quest VIII - 2004)
Late 00's: Maxwell (Scribblenauts - 2009)
Early 10's: Bandana Waddle Dee (Technically from Kirby: Super Star, but Kirby: Return to Dreamland created everything distinct about the character in 2010)
Post 2015: Lycanroc (Pokemon: Sun and Moon - 2016)

 

[Aurane]

>sans is in 7th place

holy ****

 

[Ultinarok]

I just imagined Sakurai wearing a hat like that for a whole Direct, and then Shadow isn't confirmed in that Direct.

In fact, he's not confirmed at all. People debate for months as to the reason why Sakurai was wearing that hat, and nobody, not even Nintendo reps, can agree on why.

Both this post and the one that sparked it are underrated gems. Hilarious. I will never unsee Sakurai in a stupid Shadow Hat.

 

[Will]

The one you posted was from this year. I specified 2015 polls. Ya know, when the characters were being picked? Pick any one you like.

Spoiler: Source Gaming Japan Poll

And indeed, Banjo & Kazooie are third party--the same as Steve. We're not debating Banjo & Kazooie's chances. I think their chances are low, but would be an amazing addition. We're debating Banjo & Kazooie vs Minecraft Steve, and Banjo & Kazooie have the moves, characters, music, nostalgia, and legacy with Nintendo, despite currently being owned by a third party. Minecraft only has the popularity, and it's characters/world are best suited as a stage or assist trophy. And yes, that is only my opinion--as equally valid as yours, so I really don't see the point you're making.

Didn't Dustin say something about that poll in particular? Can't recall, he may have been talking about another one but I'm gonna keep my suspicion goggles on for now.

Minecraft has the popularity, relevancy, money-making, and the fact that it's the game that's bringing Microsoft and Nintendo closer as you saw me post before. That's four pros. They're equally matched and I don't mean to say one has a greater chance than the other. It's nostalgic popularity vs relevant popularity, one doesn't necessarily outweight the other.

damn you got me on that last one, we'll just have to wait and see. i'm still disagreeing with your "oh its only good for a stage and assist" comment, though.

 

[Paperchampion23]

I feel like adding Ninten would just be adding a character to fill out a list.
Ness and Lucas were added for a reason, Ninten wouldn't.

To be fair, he could just be added as an alt costume like Alph and the koopalings

 

[CannonStreak]

On the topic of the Fab Five, I dunno, I think they are likely, but there could be a candidate that is in the five in place of one of those guys that we don't expect. Sakurai is that unpredictable, ya know.

 

[Opossum]

Here's a twist on the 'pick some newcomers' games we've been playing based on our conversations yesterday (or the day before?)

We were arguing over whether it was better to add characters from newer games for their relevance to newer fans or older games for their nostalgia factor for older fans. So let's consider adding newcomers to represent time eras - you need to choose a newcomer who debuted in each of the 5-year periods below.

Before 1990
1990-1995
1995-2000
2000-2005
2005-2010
2010-2015
After 2015

---

Here are mine:

Pre 1990: Toad (first game - Super Mario Bros 2 - 1988)
early 90's: Tails (first game - Sonic the Hedgehog 2, 1992)
late 90's: Ivy (first game - Soulcalibur, 1998
early 00's: Skull Kid (first game - Zelda: Majora's Mask, 2000)
late 00's: Twili Midna (first game - Zelda: Twilight Princess, 2006)
early 10's: Dovahkiin (first game - Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, 2011)
Post 2015: Urbosa (first game - Zelda: Breath of the Wild, 2017)
Zelda bias? What Zelda bias?

1990 or earlier: Frogger (1982)
1991-1995: Celica (1992)
1996-1999: Crash Bandicoot (1996)
2000-2004: Waluigi (2000)
2005-2009: Maxwell (200...8?)
2010-2015: Henry Fleming (2015)
2016 or later: Decidueye (2016)

 

[Dee Dude]

Look just so I can end the Ninten argument.

The “fan made” design was actually from an old Japanese Mother 1 commercial so it’s technically their’s.
The real question is if they’ll remember it.

 

[blazefan519]

I feel like adding Ninten would just be adding a character to fill out a list.
Ness and Lucas were added for a reason, Ninten wouldn't.

But he's an Echo, which doesn't serve much of a purpose of being added anyways. We saw it with Dark Pit, Lucina, Daisy, and Chrom.

Look just so I can end the Ninten argument.

The “fan made” design was actually from an old Japanese Mother 1 commercial so it’s technically their’s.
The real question is if they’ll remember it.

Thank you so much. I guess when I said when the design came from the old commercial nobody cared enough. I feel like they could pull from there if they wanted, Sakurai always pays attention to detail.

 

[Luigi The President]

Dark Pit shouldn't have been added

Except he was, it's been 4 years pal, time to get over it.

On the topic of the Fab Five, I dunno, I think they are likely, but there could be a candidate that is in the five in place of one of those guys that we don't expect. Sakurai is that unpredictable, ya know.

YOU KNOW LIKE PAPER MARIO.

 

[ExitWound]

>sans is in 7th place

holy ****

But Ness is already in the game

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Does anyone have an image of when Vergeben said "Enjoy Shantae" before the Nindies Direct?

The page I found it on two days ago is now deleted.

Was this a thing

 

[Will]

Look just so I can end the Ninten argument.

The “fan made” design was actually from an old Japanese Mother 1 commercial so it’s technically their’s.
The real question is if they’ll remember it.

The real question is: do they care?

 

[blazefan519]

Dark Pit shouldn't have been added

I don't see why he shouldn't have.

But Ness is already in the game

I'm going to ask you to stop right there young man.

 

[KMDP]

Didn't Dustin say something about that poll in particular?

If I remember right...:

The "poll" has a tiny sample size.​

​

It's not even a poll, really; it was literally just PushDustIn going around various Japanese websites where Smash fans hang out and counting how many times a character is brought up).​

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Look just so I can end the Ninten argument.

The “fan made” design was actually from an old Japanese Mother 1 commercial so it’s technically their’s.
The real question is if they’ll remember it.

Where does the beret come from?

 

[Honest Slug]

Pre 1990s: Ayumi
Early 1990s: Dixie Kong
Late 1990s: Geno
Early 2000s: Paper Mario
Late 2000s: Chorus Kids
Early 2010s: Elma
Post 2015: Buzzwole

 

[Shroob]

Has anything Mimique said conflicted with Verg's info?

 

[Collective of Bears]

Look just so I can end the Ninten argument.

The “fan made” design was actually from an old Japanese Mother 1 commercial so it’s technically their’s.
The real question is if they’ll remember it.

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle, that's where that design comes from. I never knew that!

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

Here's my take on the glorious 5. boring is a tad bit disrespectful

Banjo & Kazooie- I have been going back & forth with them as potential characters; they're either slightly possible or not happening at all, and I like to see them in action. I've played a bit of Banjo-Kazooie and so far, I don't mind seeing them, it'll be earth shattering to say the least. But at the same time I wouldn't hold my breath.

Issac- Ever since Brawl was out, I was always a little interested in who this guy was. Recently, I haven't gotten far into Golden Sun but from what I've played, it seems rather fun. but if he sneaks his way into the realm of Smash, then I'll do anything to play the entire Golden Sun games. (with my own pace) He has geokinesis as his move-sets, so I would like to see what they can bring into Smash.

Skull Kid- hey, we like more villains, so this would be a nice pick, come on who wouldn't play as this creepy as frick scarecrow. I think he's interesting enough to be in, even if I've not played Majora's Mask.

Geno- Hmm, I wouldn't care as much as other people do, but I like people to be happy if he's in.\

Incineroar- Looks cool, I guess.

Honestly, I want to see all of them in action so I can see how they play and if they're fun. I'm not usually interested in texts if I don't see action. What's the capability of them if I'm not heavily involved with them.

 

[Dee Dude]

The real question is: do they care?

How should I now? :V, they wouldn’t be dumb enough not to differentiate him regardless.

Where does the beret come from?

The Mario like hat? Yeah, that was fan made.

 

[Iridium]

Reminder that literally nobody (including me) believed that this could happen (well, except for one guy I found on YouTube).

Yeah, this is it:

This was literally uploaded the day before the Direct. Let that sink in.

 

[Paperchampion23]

On the topic of the Fab Five, I dunno, I think they are likely, but there could be a candidate that is in the five in place of one of those guys that we don't expect. Sakurai is that unpredictable, ya know.

I think we'll get at least 2-3 of the 5. Though I think Incineroar is basically guaranteed at this point (as per Vergeben and just the character being the staple of Gen 7).

Personally my fab 5 swaps out Incineroar for Bandana Dee because of that.

Nothing is guaranteed obviously, and Sakurai probs will throw us for a loop, but I expect a few of them.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

How should I now? :V, they wouldn’t be dumb enough not to differentiate him regardless.


The Mario like hat? Yeah, that was fan made.

Mario doesn't wear a beret

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, this is it:

This was literally uploaded the day before the Direct. Let that sink in.

HE MUST HAVE INSIDER INFO GOTHITELLE CONFIRMED.

 

[BlueMagician]

Where does the beret come from?

This seems to be the invention of Western Smash speculators.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Man Yoshi looks really good in 2D. Really did not translate well to 3D imo.

Everything looks better in 2D. The third dimension sucks.

 

[Dee Dude]

Mario doesn't wear a beret

...Then what do you mean by beret? He was wearing a baseball cap in the commercial.

EDIT: The hat Mario wears isn’t one but it does slightly resemble one hence the fan-made hat.

 

[blazefan519]

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle, that's where that design comes from. I never knew that!

When no one notices that you had said this earlier.
In the arms of the angel~

Anyways, that date thing looks cool. Here's mine I guess.

Pre-1990s: None
Early 1990s Tails
Late 1990s: Bandana Dee
Early 2000s: Shadow
Late 2000s: RH Rep
Early 2010s: Captain Toad
Post 2015: Incineroar