Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Opossum]

Incineroar is gonna be the most hated smash character of all time if this ends up being fake.
Imagine if he ends up being as OP as Bayonetta.

Fitting for a heel, at least.

 

[Fane]

I'll be honest, While I think the "Test of time" was legitimate reasoning in the past, it is much less so now. We've had leaks that could have been around for ages this cycle if the creators didn't step up and say "It's fake"

I disagree.

Most of the previous image leaks had very noticeable inconsistencies and problems the community figured out rather rapidly or pointed out that generally did hurt the credibility of the images.

Most of the 'test of time' leaks are usually text leaks. There's no genuine way to tell if they're fake or not unless the 'leaker' comes out saying it's fake or it fails the test of time by being proved fake either by dates that are listed or deconfirms in official reveals.

So far in this speculation cycle, practically all of the image leaks that have gained ground were shut down rather quickly afterwards.(1-3 days seems average)

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Anyone know what this links to, not sure if I should be suspicious or not.

It links to the upcoming Japanese live stream for Smash Ultimate. The one with the new build.

For future reference Andy_86 , please add some commentary on your links before you go post them. For all we know that could be someone getting murdered or something.

 

[osby]

I'll be okay if Boring White Dude from Street Fighter With a Banging Wife and Evil Bara Wrestle Flame Feline are all they we have left

but I'll side eye Sakuari so hard for making them the last reveals and people like the new third party character, Ridley, and K. Rool the first few reveals.

I mean, if you want people to preorder and stuff, there isn't much point in saving the best for the last.

 

[StupendousMike]

I would be so okay with Nintendo just acknowledging StarTropics exists.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Incineroar is gonna be the most hated smash character of all time if this ends up being fake.
Imagine if he ends up being as OP as Bayonetta.

Him killing the leak would result in a character trailer with a 75% dislike ratio.

In other words, it's absolutely perfect for his personality.

 

[Admiral Pit]

So any new information or something that I've missed the past 20 hours or so? Hopefully something of good news or something?

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Find me in the Nintenzone Social Thread Noi my boy! Also just shoot me a PM so we can talk about anything that comes to mind!
Will only be 2 weeks lads. 2 weeks free of Geno/Paper Mario posting from yours truly. A blessing in disguise really

Find me there too. I'll still hang around here, but I'm getting tired of this back-and-forth discussion.

I'm going to bed. Have a good night everyone.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Incineroar's reveal

 

[FantasyBlade]

I'll play the "replace two in the leak with two more" game I saw here a couple of days ago.

-Replace Shadow with Tails
-Replace Geno with Dixie Kong

The rest I love, if its true.

Come at me!

Jokes aside, I'd like Dixie too, just not at the expense of Geno

 

[doomedtacox]

So any new information or something that I've missed the past 20 hours or so? Hopefully something of good news or something?

Nothing really tbh. We're still at a deadlock with this whole thing.

 

[Jetsurge]

"Insiders" when they saw that Incineroar wasn't in the Grinch leak -

 

[CosmicQuark]

Honestly the only 3 characters that I have any reason to believe are in the game are: Ken, Shadow, and Isaac.

Ken simply because if any echo fighter is going to make it into Smash, it's the OG echo.

Shadow because his AT is still missing + he's the only 3rd party character to be an assist in multiple games. If he's not an assist, I see no reason why to cut him (unless he's DLC).

Isaac mainly because of the Ratholos pic and (possibly) the new Golden Sun item shown recently. In my opinion, he's the only newcomer from the banner "leak" that actually has anything pointing to his inclusion through OFFICIAL released content.

I'd agree with the first two, but for very different reasons. I think Verge's track record is good enough to take what he says seriously, so in addition to the "leaked" image of Ken, and he has no other rumors contradicting his inclusion. I couldn't make the AT argument for Shadow, as that can be said for many ATs, including but not limited to Skull Kid and Tingle. I would say, however, Shadow benefits from being a missing AT, in combination of being an easy echo.

Isaac's a bit more tricky because it's solely dependent on interpreting that "official" post. I feel like Banjo & Kazooie reverting to their N64 designs, rather than their Microsoft designs, is a sign from an official source, added to Verge's rumors that Minecraft (Microsoft) content could be in the game. It's equally plausible, when combined with rumors/official statements. Similarly, we have multiple rumors surrounding an SE character, when combined with fan demand, lines up with Geno (with Sora, purportedly, being hinted at for DLC). The only characters with nothing hinted at would be Mach Rider and Chorus Kids. But even then, Sakurai's image of the toy gun (so, an official source much like Isaac's) lines up with Mach Rider, if interpretation is allowed. But many interpreted that as being a sign for Elma, so it's an interpretative conclusion.

And also, while we only have rumors concerning Incineroar's inclusion, which is seemingly contradicted by this questionable banner, the fact many insiders seem to suggest Incineroar's inclusion is grounds for dismissing the leak (depending on assumptions), means Incineroar's possible inclusion carries some weight.

Of course, these are all my opinions, as I prefer rumors over interpretations, in how I consider something to likely be, but this is where I see the various likelihoods of the banner characters to be.

EDIT: Whoops, somehow combined Ken and Shadow in the Verge stuff.

 

[StupendousMike]

View attachment 172570

I like Geno just fine. I just preferred Mallow as far as Mario RPG originals go.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean, if you want people to preorder and stuff, there isn't much point in saving the best for the last.

At the same time if you call your game ''Ultimate" you better not fizzle out.

A Pokemon that people are either neutral on, outright hate, and a few love is fizzling out.

A super obvious echo is fizzling out.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At the same time if you call your game ''Ultimate" you better not fizzle out.

A Pokemon that people are either neutral on, outright hate, and a few love is fizzling out.

A super obvious echo is fizzling out.

Or calling it Special.

Still, I agree. Both really should be in. It'd feel odd to not have a new Pokemon. It's not impossible, of course. We have way more than any previous game, after all.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Nothing really tbh. We're still at a deadlock with this whole thing.

So I see. Still nothing big yet. Honestly during times like these, it's best to let time reveal the answers to us. I mean I'll still look around here from time to time, but it'd probably be too stressful to get into it now. Plus I'd kinda feel left out considering the characters I'm actually interested in are not at all in the whole topic at all, with the exception of borderline wrestling tiger cat.

 

[RyuhoFox]

A randomly incomplete version of the banner at a print-shop in France is even more dubious than the complete version of the banner at a print-shop in France.

But again, all of the circumstances surrounding the leak's existence as well as the details of the art composition are superseded by the higher-order evidence that we have been directly told multiple times by the director of the game that we will not be getting this number of new characters.

Tmk he said he hoped we wouldn't be expecting too many, not that we wouldn't be getting many. Past that iirc he said not to expect too many last game too. He undersells things a lot.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Spoiler: Leaked Incineroar Reveal Trailer (warning: mild language):

I'll play the "replace two in the leak with two more" game I saw here a couple of days ago.

-Replace Shadow with Tails
-Replace Geno with Dixie Kong

The rest I love, if its true.

Come at me!

Replace Geno with 2B
Replace Chorus Kids with Linkle

 

[perfectchaos83]

Tmk he said he hoped we wouldn't be expecting too many, not that we wouldn't be getting many. Past that iirc he said not to expect too many last game too. He undersells things a lot.

There's underselling and then there's holding half the newcomers until the last month. It just seems weird

 

[Z25]

The insider debate in a nutshell:

 

[Iko MattOrr]

View attachment 172570

Jokes aside, I'd like Dixie too, just not at the expense of Geno

Sassy Geno still looks good even if it has been proven fake already -.-
If Geno is in, I hope his official model resembles this picture, or adds more details but still keeps this as the base design.

 

[RyuhoFox]

Honestly I tend to find that Incineroar's unpopularity tends to be overstated by a great margin. In western forums I find it tends to be 50/50 or a bit more towards more liking it then disliking it. But the people who don't like it tend to be really vocal about it and drown everything else out.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Or calling it Special.

Still, I agree. Both really should be in. It'd feel odd to not have a new Pokemon. It's not impossible, of course. We have way more than any previous game, after all.

I originally thought there wouldn't be any Pokemon, with a combination of Sakurai saying returning newcomers meant a more limited newcomer roster, and how we got 2-4 returning Pokemon fighters, depending on how you count it (I would use 4, as it's important distinction when talking about balancing). So I counted them in my count of newcomers. That isn't to say I thought it was impossible, but I thought it was unlikely. With Verge's rumors and everything surrounding Incineroar bubbling up, I had to reexamine that assumption.

And I feel like NOA knew what they were doing when calling it "Ultimate" for English-speaking countries--they knew they would have to live up to the hype that name suggests. However, I always interpreted that as meaning "everyone is here" making it Ultimate, and I was satisfied at E3. However, after the August Direct, whether they intended it or not, that rose the bar. Now, whether they only reveal two in one month, or 7, the pacing will be--weird, to say the least.

 

[vaanrose]

Sorry for bringing this back, but I made an experiment just out of curiosity (it's made with a 3D software)
View attachment 172546

The mapping is wrong: it wouldn't close the loop, additionally the mapping is unrealistic at the left and right edges of the visible part (see how in the 3D one the image gets more compressed). This means that the mapping on that cylinder is not made by a 3D software, but it has been applied manually with a photo editing software like Photoshop or similar.
It's also badly cutted, in the leak picture it's even more cutted than in my 3D model, on the top and bottom edges.
I used the small banner picture, that's the one with the lowest resolution; despite this, the quality on my 3D cylinder is still better than the one in the leak.
This is either a very rushed mock-up, or it's not a professional work for sure.

I decided to try this experiment myself and I have a different conclusion.

Even though the cylinder is largely covered up, because of the cutaway, we can get determine it's size easily. And because we can make out Bowser, Yoshi, Samus and Kirby, we can correctly map the texture to the cylinder. When doing so, we get this:

It appears to be quite perfectly sized to repeat exactly once. The height of the display isn't tall enough to accommodate the entire image, however.

 

[RyuhoFox]

There's underselling and then there's holding half the newcomers until the last month. It just seems weird

Ultimate as an idea is kind of a weird thing to begin with. lol. But honestly it's Sakurai, taking what he says at face value, let alone the extreme of that tends to be quite silly at this point.

 

[VideoGameDonut]

its kind of weird that ACP hasnt responded to the leaks. Marina outright denied that the leak was real and denied that eric ever worked there in the first place. this must mean either ACP just doesn't care/they are not affiliated and don't want to get in the drama, or they are under a strict NDA and don't want to hurt their business relationship with Nintendo.

 

[Opossum]

I'll play the "replace two in the leak with two more" game I saw here a couple of days ago.

-Replace Shadow with Tails
-Replace Geno with Dixie Kong

The rest I love, if its true.

Come at me!

Oooh I'll play.

Shadow for Decidueye.
Banjo for Celica.

 

[Jetsurge]

#TeamReal's opinion on Incineroar -

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Taking Sakurai's ''Don't expect too many newcomers since we focused on making sure everyone returned" at face value:

16 newcomers is 5 less than the overall total of Smash 4 once DLC was done.
16 newcomers is 2 more than Melee.
16 newcomers is 2 less than Brawl.

All I have to say if real is shrug.

Shrug.

#TeamShrug

 

[doomedtacox]

I decided to try this experiment myself and I have a different conclusion.

Even though the cylinder is largely covered up, because of the cutaway, we can get determine it's size easily. And because we can make out Bowser, Yoshi, Samus and Kirby, we can correctly map the texture to the cylinder. When doing so, we get this:

It appears to be quite perfectly sized to repeat exactly once. The height of the display isn't tall enough to accommodate the entire image, however.

Huh, very interesting.

 

[JoshOmega]

Honestly I tend to find that Incineroar's unpopularity tends to be overstated by a great margin. In western forums I find it tends to be 50/50 or a bit more towards more liking it then disliking it. But the people who don't like it tend to be really vocal about it and drown everything else out.

Speaking as someone who is regularly on a Pokémon fan site I can confirm the people who dislike it are very vocal about it. Personally I love it. It’s probably one of my favorite Pokémon introduced in gen 7 along with Decidueye lycanroc day and aquaranid.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Taking Sakurai's ''Don't expect too many newcomers since we focused on making sure everyone returned" at face value:

16 newcomers is 5 less than the overall total of Smash 4 once DLC was done.
16 newcomers is 2 more than Melee.
16 newcomers is 2 less than Brawl.

All I have to say if real is shrug.

Shrug.

#TeamShrug

Not the first time Sakurai lied or trolled with us tho.

Then again maybe when he said that he meant unique fighters only. If we don't count echos then that'd be 10 (11 if the "Missing character" is true as well).

 

[Jetsurge]

Honestly I tend to find that Incineroar's unpopularity tends to be overstated by a great margin. In western forums I find it tends to be 50/50 or a bit more towards more liking it then disliking it. But the people who don't like it tend to be really vocal about it and drown everything else out.

Incineroar was hated in the Pokemon community when he was revealed because he stood up when he evolved.

I feel that he looks way too human for a Pokemon and goes way too close to furry territory.

 

[SevenGameSet]

Oooh I'll play.

Shadow for Decidueye.
Banjo for Celica.

You wanna ****** go mate?

kidding of course

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Not the first time Sakurai lied or trolled with us tho.

Then again maybe when he said that he meant unique fighters only. If we don't count echos then that'd be 10 (11 if the "Missing character" is true as well).

True, but you'd still have to make models and the slight animation changes and such for the 6 echoes.

So that's still part of a newcomer work load.

 

[Midget Master]

Incineroar... eh. He appeals to me somewhat as a Smash character concept, but his design bores me. Decidueye looks cooler and I think has more potential as a Smash character. I think it's actually a mega shame if Decidueye doesn't make it.

 

[FixedFun]

Not the first time Sakurai lied or trolled with us tho.

Then again maybe when he said that he meant unique fighters only. If we don't count echos then that'd be 10 (11 if the "Missing character" is true as well).

I agree, I think Sakurai is refereeing more to fully-fleshed newcomers not echo fighters:

「ファイターが総出演することを最大の目標に、 しているので新しいファイター追加についてはあんまり期待してないなと思っています」
"The maximum goal is to put all fighters, so don't expect much new fighter additions."
This is what he says originally.

 

[joshoctober16]

Oh... I didn't realized that.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

finnely some one did what i was asking for , now its starting to put it more on the team fake side

 

[Radical Bones]

I started a new Nuzlocke in USUM today.

Litten was my starter.

Litten died at the trainer school.

Guys;

sYmBoLiSm.

InCiNeRoAr Is DeAd.