Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[staindgrey]

Technically all speculation, outside of leaks/sources, is finding patterns and seeing if they're meaningful or not meaningful. In the absence of any evidence, you can only decide that on the basis of how reasonable the assumptions are. The assumption that they remove the new banner before a reveal makes sense (it would seem odd to keep it, reveal someone, and keep it some more). Whereas the box is, agreed by almost everyone, placeholder art. And I think assuming placeholder art to be the same as the finalized design is ridiculous. They're not one in the same.

How I feel every time this conversation starts again.

While I'm not going to entertain the argument for too long, maybe listen to someone with actual years of experience in marketing when I say that the likelihood of the box being another placeholder is extremely unlikely by this point. Saying that the opposite is agreed upon "by almost everyone" is like polling a waiting room on the likelihood of a tumor being benign while ignoring the doctor.

And to avoid this becoming argumentative, look. I get it. People want to believe that there are more than two more characters left to be revealed. But I get really, really, really tired of people mixing up something being unlikely and something not yet being proven. Those are two different statements.

 

[praline]

Lowkey Vergeben being so active without anything really to say imo hurts his cred in my eyes.

This is a bad opinion. How the **** does this effect his cred? There’s probably nothing left for him to leak.

 

[Aurane]

Lowkey Vergeben being so active without anything really to say imo hurts his cred in my eyes.

You have some bad eyes then. :V

Like really. Let the dude live. He doesn't have to be on leak discussion 24/7.

 

[amazonevan19]

Remember verge only knows what his sources tell him and he hasn't predicted all characters. The box theory could be right or wrong, we don't know for sure. All we know is that character reveals are going to slow down from their previous pace. That could mean a host of things.

Assuming the reveal next week is Kencineroar, I'd expect two or three more fighters in a November direct, if Sakurai doesn't say Kencineroar are the last fighters for base. And assuming Steve is another correct Verge prediction (which he doesn't know for sure, just that Minecraft content is in the game), that leaves one or two other slots for base to hope for.

 

[SAMation]

Vergeben isn’t an object, he’s human too!

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Wow, positive discussion is pretty much dead now, huh?

 

[Opossum]

Wow, positive discussion is pretty much dead now, huh?

We can talk about Merric again. That's always the best five minutes of every week.

 

[Eru13]

You have some bad eyes then. :V

Like really. Let the dude live. He doesn't have to be on leak discussion 24/7.

Besides, both him and Hitagi have mentioned on the record that they are really annoyed on how the smash community in general treats them and how they don't really want to involve themselves with it anymore

And I'm sure someone will say "that's just them throwing the towel because they're a farce and never knew anything" but the fact is that they're pretty much the only info we got in between directs

 

[CosmicQuark]

How I feel every time this conversation starts again.

While I'm not going to entertain the argument for too long, maybe listen to someone with actual years of experience in marketing when I say that the likelihood of the box being another placeholder is extremely unlikely by this point. Saying that the opposite is agreed upon "by almost everyone" is like polling a waiting room on the likelihood of a tumor being benign while ignoring the doctor.

And to avoid this becoming argumentative, look. I get it. People want to believe that there are more than two more characters left to be revealed. But I get really, really, really tired of people mixing up something being unlikely and something not yet being proven. Those are two different statements.

So you think the actual box that will ship will have the negative space and no Isabelle. If not... that's... a placeholder.

EDIT: Arguments from authority mean nothing. Expertise is good, and if you have factual information you'd like to share, I'm willing to listen. But you can't just argue from authority to be convincing, you need to actually back it up. Otherwise, it's a major fallacy.

 

[osby]

We can talk about Merric again. That's always the best five minutes of every week.

What's so great about Merric, aside from his awesome hair?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

It's not looking good for the box theory. We're obviously getting a newcomer soon, whether it's a direct or a standalone trailer. For the box theory to be true, either this has to be the final direct and they're not saving anything for November, or we're getting a direct later that has only a single echo for a character reveal. Both these scenarios also go against Sakurai's statement about slowing down reveals. He wouldn't say they were too trigger happy with reveals then proceed to reveal everything else too quickly. I wonder what box theory people think about it.

I'd say that's Sakurai being Sakurai.

Side note, a character other than Ken or Incinaroar showing up woudln't kill box theory but would kill the Frankenstein monster of it and Verge's leaks.

 

[Deleted member]

Groudon brings the heat!

I'd unironically support this.
We'd get a real terraformer.

 

[Aurane]

Wow, positive discussion is pretty much dead now, huh?

We're getting close to release. The negativity usually happens around this time. Least from my observations.

Guys gotta chill. Leak or no, this game comes out in two months.

 

[amazonevan19]

I mean I'm going to be really damn disappointed if there's only two left, and it's Kencineroar and box theory is right. There's really good arguments as to why it's not true that I personally subscribe to. Sakurai has shown they can change around concept art and promo pieces at any time, and the printed card only represents reveals up to a certain point. It doesn't 100% prove there's only two left. But there's no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt anything until official word comes.

We're most likely getting DLC, and I don't want this place to become a smoldering toxic inferno against box theorists if it turns out to be correct. For one, there's no way box theorists can be held responsible for only two more characters; that's incredibly silly. And secondly, wouldn't you rather have your expectations tampered down a bit as opposed to being blindsided by only two being left and being even more upset? I know I would.

So while most of the community doesn't want box theory to be true, myself included, we can't blame the theory or the theorists for getting only two more fighters for base. The box theory is the message, and the box theorists are only the messengers; don't shoot 'em.

 

[osby]

I'd unironically support this.
We'd get a real terraformer.

I'd love to see it terraform Electroplankton.

 

[domriver]

I was wondering if Sakurai ever though to make Team Rocket Utilizing Arbok, Weezing, and Meowth. Would it work? How would Weezing fight xD

 

[Deleted member]

I'd love to see it terraform Electroplankton.

Finally, the stage is playable.

 

[Opossum]

What's so great about Merric, aside from his awesome hair?

You like wind magic?
You like a moveset devoted to being an anti-air character?
You like having a Final Smash that blows the foe up using naught but the power cosmic?
You like dorky wizards?

Then support Merric, Fire Emblem's very first playable Mage, and Marth's childhood-friend-and-eventual-brother-in-law.

 

[amazonevan19]

I was wondering if Sakurai ever though to make Team Rocket Utilizing Arbok, Weezing, and Meowth. Would it work? How would Weezing fight xD

Sludge bomb for his neutral B attack? Grabs fighters with his mouth? That's really all I can think of for a pokemon like weezing lol.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I mean I'm going to be really damn disappointed if there's only two left, and it's Kencineroar and box theory is right. There's really good arguments as to why it's not true that I personally subscribe to. Sakurai has shown they can change around concept art and promo pieces at any time, and the printed card only represents reveals up to a certain point. It doesn't 100% prove there's only two left. But there's no way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt anything until official word comes.

We're most likely getting DLC, and I don't want this place to become a smoldering toxic inferno against box theorists if it turns out to be correct. For one, there's no way box theorists can be held responsible for only two more characters; that's incredibly silly. And secondly, wouldn't you rather have your expectations tampered down a bit as opposed to being blindsided by only two being left and being even more upset? I know I would.

So while most of the community doesn't want box theory to be true, myself included, we can't blame the theory or the theorists for getting only two more fighters for base. The box theory is the message, and the box theorists are only the messengers; don't shoot 'em.

Wow, that’s a whole lot of good points and advice that no one here is going to listen to.
Whether it’s true or not, everyone who ever believed in the box theory is going to get mobbed off the Internet. The only difference is whether or not people will rage against Sakurai, too.

 

[amazonevan19]

Wow, that’s a whole lot of good points and advice that no one here is going to listen to.
Whether it’s true or not, everyone who ever believed in the box theory is going to get mobbed off the Internet. The only difference is whether or not people will rage against Sakurai, too.

Well thanks lol. Just trying to keep everyone's (and my own) expectations in check should box theory or any expansions/variants be correct.

Well I'm sure there will be a lot of misdirected anger, but depending on the other news we get about Spirit modes etc. the salt over who did or didn't make it might not be as colossal.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Well thanks lol. Just trying to keep everyone's (and my own) expectations in check should box theory or any expansions/variants be correct.

Well I'm sure there will be a lot of misdirected anger, but depending on the other news we get about Spirit modes etc. the salt over who did or didn't make it might not be as colossal.

There is honestly no point in trying to quell backlash when it comes to Smash Bros. fans. It’s simply never going to work. The best thing you can do is just laugh at how ridiculous it’ll inevitably be once it happens.

 

[staindgrey]

So you think the actual box that will ship will have the negative space and no Isabelle. If not... that's... a placeholder.

*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

The initial placeholder sent to retailers was already replaced with this image, which was purposefully altered to hide the part of the roster that had not yet been revealed. Just using the word "placeholder" and implying a different context (in this scenario, "placeholder" as in they hid two characters for revealing later, versus "placeholder" as in the final product is nothing like this one and this is just an elaborate ruse) is disingenuous and a lousy argument. Simply hiding two layers in a .PSD file and reapplying them later takes two seconds. Constructing the initial design to accommodate all characters in a distinct pattern that accounts for a yet unknown echo character slot with the amount of detail shown for a placeholder replacing a placeholder that would be replaced by a totally different image also made from the ground up is a complete waste of their marketing team's time and energy and a company choosing to do that likely wouldn't be nearly as experienced as Nintendo.

But I don't care anymore.

 

[amazonevan19]

There is honestly no point in trying to quell backlash when it comes to Smash Bros. fans. It’s simply never going to work. The best thing you can do is just laugh at how ridiculous it’ll inevitably be once it happens.

Edit: It will be fun watching the aftermath, regardless of what happens

 

[Wyoming]

Wow, positive discussion is pretty much dead now, huh?

You are the dude who keeps saying the hype for the game ia dead every other day...

Glass houses and all that.

But yes it is crunch time. I do not see why the upcoming reveals/Direct could not have the last characters on it...they could do another fact extravaganza in November focusing on modes, features, and then DLC announced.

 

[osby]

You like wind magic?
You like a moveset devoted to being an anti-air character?
You like having a Final Smash that blows the foe up using naught but the power cosmic?
You like dorky wizards?

Then support Merric, Fire Emblem's very first playable Mage, and Marth's childhood-friend-and-eventual-brother-in-law.
View attachment 168089

Don't we have a mage already? He sounds cool! Also Marth could use a friend from his timeline.

Finally, the stage is playable.

Omega forms are a thing.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, speculation threads tend to get a little nasty near the end, as everyone is on edge. We're in the home stretch now, as the game is out in only two months with a potential reveal for next week and the odds of an early November Direct being pretty good (well, to me at least). I have a gut feeling we're going to know the full base roster very soon.

The way I see it, one of two scenarios could play out:

Spoiler: The next reveal is the final Direct

Ken and Incineroar are our final base roster characters. DLC is announced with the very first character being dated for around January/February. Spirits is the star of the show and is bigger than we think.

Spoiler: The next reveal is a standalone trailer stream

If we get Incineroar next week, the Box Theory has to jump through some new hoops IMO:

Incineroar being shown off now would have to mean Ken is being saved for the final Direct, which I highly, highly doubt an Echo is being saved as the final reveal. This would have to mean that Ken is a unique, but then the problem of Echos arises. If Ken isn't our next Echo, who is? In order for the Box Theory to fit in this scenario, Incineroar and Ken are uniques and there are no more Echos. I could be wrong, but I really feel like if Richter, Chrom and Dark Samus were our final Echos, Sakurai would have said so. There is the potential for the next reveal to just be Ken, but would they really stream the reveal of an Echo fighter?

 

[ThatOneAnon]

You are the dude who keeps saying the hype for the game ia dead every other day...

Glass houses and all that.

But yes it is crunch time. I do not see why the upcoming reveals/Direct could not have the last characters on it...they could do another fact extravaganza in November focusing on modes, features, and then DLC announced.

I stopped doing that a while ago because I ended up getting banned for it and I realized maybe reply baiting people like that isn’t the best idea.
Still, I can’t help but be either cynical or outright bored with the hype train right now. Even if the potential newcomer next week IS Incineroar or anyone else I don’t care about, I’d honestly take any new info at all.

 

[SlickWylde]

If you want positive discussion, MAKE positive discussion.

So, on a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the characters and stage selection?

I'm at a 10, personally. I would be content if the game released with the current roster

 

[ThatOneAnon]

If you want positive discussion, MAKE positive discussion.

So, on a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the characters and stage selection?

I'm at a 10, personally. I would be content if the game released with the current roster

I’m on a 1 because Bayonetta OP
/s

 

[Deleted member]

Omega forms are a thing.

You just got me thinking about Omega/Battlefield Hanenbow. That's going to be weird. Unless they have the original stage in the background (or allow My Music on the stage), there's going to be no music playing on those versions.

 

[amazonevan19]

If you want positive discussion, MAKE positive discussion.

So, on a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the characters and stage selection?

I'm at a 10, personally. I would be content if the game released with the current roster

I'm at a 9.5, super stoked for the game. Only need my trinity for it to be a full 10.

The leak cycle has dampened my hopes for who's coming up for base, but in terms of who's already in, yeah this roster kicks serious ass.

 

[Opossum]

Don't we have a mage already? He sounds cool! Also Marth could use a friend from his timeline.



Omega forms are a thing.

I don't mean the first Mage in Smash (though even then I'd argue Robin barely counts considering he only uses tomes in his specials and jab), I mean in Fire Emblem itself. He was the first.

 

[Dee Dude]

If you want positive discussion, MAKE positive discussion.

So, on a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the characters and stage selection?

I'm at a 10, personally. I would be content if the game released with the current roster

8/10

Just need Subspace 2 for the 9 and Banjo for the 10.

 

[staindgrey]

If you want positive discussion, MAKE positive discussion.

So, on a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the characters and stage selection?

I'm at a 10, personally. I would be content if the game released with the current roster

10 on characters, 7 on stages.

I appreciate that they've tried to bring back almost every stage in the series, but the lack of many significant new stages is kind of disappointing. I want to play in more new places.

Also no Miiverse stage.

EDIT: Actually, 9 on characters. I just remembered that we still haven't had a legitimate new Zelda rep since Melee. Boo.

 

[Opossum]

If you want positive discussion, MAKE positive discussion.

So, on a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the characters and stage selection?

I'm at a 10, personally. I would be content if the game released with the current roster

10/10
11/10 with Chrom.

 

[Deleted member]

If you want positive discussion, MAKE positive discussion.

So, on a scale of 1-10, how happy are you with the characters and stage selection?

I'm at a 10, personally. I would be content if the game released with the current roster

Full on 10. Absolutely stoked we’re getting this much content.

 

[osby]

I’m on a 1 because Bayonetta OP
/s

Simmer down, the game is not even out yet, all we know is that she significantly nerfed.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Simmer down, the game is not even out yet, all we know is that she significantly nerfed.

“/s”

 

[ZenythSmash]

If I had to rate from most evil to least evil. It would be.

1. Porky Minch
2.
3. (To purposely try to steal bananas to starve an entire species. That's really low...)
4.
5.

Not sure how evil Black Shadow, Black Knight, Hades, Medusa and such are since I never played the games they appeared in so I can't really rate them...

Anime!Black Shadow is downright cruel and almost tried to shapeshift the universe into a really dark one with the Dark Reactor
Hades is a literal ****, turns he's behind everything that happened in the game!
Medusa just have a really bad grudge to Palutena
Black Knight literally comes crashing to your door just to kill a dude, there were much crueler FE villains however.