Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MojoRobo]

But he chose not to put them in, or put them in any game after, and I wonder why that is

Because of legal reasons and a language barrier, iirc. Not out of any preconceived rule against western characters.

 

[Zinith]

>not YOSHI'S FLIPPING ISLAND
The worst news I've heard today.

Yeah, it was sad news, but on the bright side it basically confirmed that the game was intended for the Direct. So now I'm 10x more eager to view it...

 

[TheCJBrine]

But he chose not to put them in, or put them in any game after, and I wonder why that is

Because Microsoft bought Rare and they weren't on good terms with Nintendo when it came to consoles.

They even had the sensor bomb-thing use the design from Rare's Golden Eye (or maybe it was Perfect Dark) before they were bought out.

 

[RileyXY1]

Your logic is incredibly strange. Yes, Donkey Kong as a franchise started in Japan, but the DKC games were created from scratch elsewhere. For all intents and purposes, Diddy and K.Rool are not japanese characters and they aren't from a Japanese game.

I honestly think your viewpoint is disrespectful to all of the talented creators in other parts of the world.

There's also Dark Samus. While Metroid is a Japanese franchise, the Metroid Prime games were made by an American developer (Retro Studios). That same developer is now making the DKC games.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I heard the direct was delayed to next week, but I haven't seen anything official.
Can anyone verify? I just see dot connecting.

 

[CJ Falcon]

And Shantae is my second most wanted character, but she's the only Western character I like, because I don't like the designs of any other Western characters. I'm just not a fan of the art style of Western characters aside from Shantae, but is that a bad thing?

There's countless American character designers with unique styles. To lump all their styles together is just ridiculous.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

But he chose not to put them in, or put them in any game after, and I wonder why that is

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/

“Incidentally, including a character from Rare in Smash would be difficult for various reasons. I know there are some people who think that Banjo & Kazooie are an obvious inclusion, but that’s unlikely for a variety of legal and financial reasons.”

“Showing realistic guns = no good! Character uses an actor’s likeness = no good! Since the original game is based on a movie, getting those rights = no good! He’s Rare’s property = no good! Blocked on all fronts.”

It was for legal reasons, not any sort of racism. Sakurai doesn't care about **** like that.

 

[Luigi The President]

No, I dislike Sora because I don't like the way he's designed.

Which you said was due to his Western-style design, if I'm not mistaken?
But...he's designed by a Japanese man.

 

[MojoRobo]

It's not entirely Western. The animation was done in South Korea.

To be fair, a lot of cartoons and a lot of anime outsource their animation to other Asian countries, so that's not really an argument against whether or not a show is Western.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

But he chose not to put them in, or put them in any game after, and I wonder why that is

Because they ceased to be easy gets.

There's even hints that Perfect Dark was slightly considered Smash material as some items had similar designs.

Both were franchises that were known as Nintendo games and when Microsoft snatched up both. Any potential of that became moot. Because they became third party and thus harder for him to negotiate.

 

[UltimateWario]

But he chose not to put them in, or put them in any game after, and I wonder why that is

Golly gee willickers I wonder what the reason for not including Rare characters could have possibly been.

 

[Buzzwole]

I heard the direct was delayed to next week, but I haven't seen anything official.
Can anyone verify? I just see dot connecting.

Its all speculation. There haven't been any official statements made by Nintendo yet.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

And Shantae is my second most wanted character, but she's the only Western character I like, because I don't like the designs of any other Western characters. I'm just not a fan of the art style of Western characters aside from Shantae, but is that a bad thing?

It’s not inherently a bad thing; it is, in my opinion, a flawed and unconventional opinion, but you’re entitled to it. You can dislike art styles, live your best life!

That said, it’s closer to wrong when it’s your driving reason for opposing their inclusion in a game that celebrates ... well, gaming. I wouldn’t be particularly jazzed if the Chorus Men joined the fray, but I would by no means oppose it, and I acknowledge why they would be included.

 

[MojoRobo]

Yeah, it was sad news, but on the bright side it basically confirmed that the game was intended for the Direct. So now I'm 10x more eager to view it...

I missed out on Woolly World, so I hope this new one's good. Haven't played a Yoshi game in forever because they have the same sluggish dev cycle as Pikmin games, apparently.

 

[SebasSancy]

Didn't mean to disrespect the japanese, but Nintendo is already paying respects by not showing the Direct. The least they could do is update the Smash Blog.

They're gonna make the update when they're ready. Believe me I really want new information about Smash, but we're gonna know everything included in this Direct eventually.

I don't believe they're gonna make last minute changes, sadly something horrible happen and we need to understand that they need time. We've been waiting for new info since august, we can wait a couple of days more

 

[SmashingXan2]

But he chose not to put them in, or put them in any game after, and I wonder why that is

Cause they were owned by a rival console creator then, Microsoft

 

[IGuessItsOver]

Uh...
I'm not sure you understand the magnitude of the situation?

10 confirmed deaths, hundreds upon hundreds of injuries, numerous people missing, huge wrecks of debris. It was a 6.8 magnitude earthquake.

Nintendo doesn't owe us a thing right now.

They're gonna make the update when they're ready. Believe me I really want new information about Smash, but we're gonna know everything included in this Direct eventually.

I don't believe they're gonna make last minute changes, sadly something horrible happen and we need to understand that they need time. We've been waiting for new info since august, we can wait a couple of days more

Yeah i didn't think my response through... i apologize.

 

[monadoboy]

I talked about this a bit on the Shantae thread, but is it bad to not want characters from Western franchises to be playable characters?

I feel somewhat like this, but it's mostly a coincidence because I've rarely enjoyed non-Japanese games.

Spoiler: dont kill me

Not even the Primes, but that's because I can't seem to enjoy first person games...

I don't see a reason to not want them just because they are western, tho.

 

[MrRoidley]

I don't think this is appropriate at all. A terrible event just swept over Japan and we should wait for Nintendo as long as they need, as to respect what Japan is going through right now.

plus, we need to be considerate to Japanese Nintendo fans that might have been affected by the disasters one way or another and that aren't in the right state to watch any news. I mean it's easy to think of us western fans, but many fans there may have been affected by everything that's happening

 

[CJ Falcon]

To be fair, a lot of cartoons and a lot of anime outsource their animation to other Asian countries, so that's not really an argument against whether or not a show is Western.

I said not entirely Western.

 

[NotDom]

Have you guys seen the Skull Kid and Bandanna Dee leak, if you did what are your thoughts?

 

[Luigi The President]

Yeah i suppose you're right, didn't think my response through...

As long as you understand why you were in the wrong, just learn from this, that's all.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

No, I dislike Sora because I don't like the way he's designed.

"I don't like Sora because he's a western character"
"But he was designed by the same guy who designed Cloud..."
"I just don't like Sora's design"

SO THEN JUST SAY YOU DON'T LIKE HIM.

 

[Chrono.]

I heard the direct was delayed to next week, but I haven't seen anything official.
Can anyone verify? I just see dot connecting.

It's not concrete but this is the best we got.

https://nintendoeverything.com/spla...nintendo-direct-will-now-air-on-september-13/

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Because Microsoft bought Rare and they weren't on good terms with Nintendo when it came to consoles.

They even had the sensor bomb-thing use the design from Rare's Golden Eye before they were bought out.

Nowadays though, Microsoft and Nintendo seem to be on good terms, what with their cross-play of certain games on Switch and Xbox One so Banjo certainly is more possible

 

[EnthusedPanda]

View attachment 162285

"I don't like Sora because he's a western character"
"But he was designed by the same guy who designed Cloud..."
"I just don't like Sora's design"

???

Maybe it’s the boots? The chains? I mean, I’m trying here..

 

[Kuon]

Which you said was due to his Western-style design, if I'm not mistaken?
But...he's designed by a Japanese man.

I just don't like the way Sora is designed. I didn't know he was designed by a Japanese man. All I know is he's partly owned by Disney.

 

[fortun8]

i probably won't argue on the western character stuff but i do want to put down my two cents!

one thing that i think i like about Japanese characters over most western characters/franchises is that they seem to be more colorful and creative at a first glance. i like colors! on another part of the spectrum, we have things like Battlefield, CoD and other stuff that just really aren't my style. i don't think i'm old enough to understand what the N64 days were like, but i imagine those western characters and ideas were a lot more my speed than stuff like...a gray and brown and green FPS about war or whatever. both kinds of characters have ups and downs!

edit: other types of entertainment also have colorful things, and i realize that! i may have not made that clear though, so here's the edit to explain it!

 

[Deleted member]

Out of curiosity, how well did Shantae’s and Banjo’s games do in Japan?

IIRC, they sold more than 600K for the first Banjo game and 250,000 ~ 300,000 for Tooie in Japan. However, their presence on niconico (Japanese YouTube) is astonishing, with two videos having over a million views.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/search/バンジョーとカズーイの大冒険?sort=v&order=d

Unfortunately I don't think there've been sales released for Shantae's games in Japan, but not to mention I haven't seen a Shantae video on niconico break over 150K views.

 

[MrRoidley]

Have you guys seen the Skull Kid and Bandanna Dee leak, if you did what are your thoughts?

the Poke Floats one? It almost caught me but Skull Kid looked kinda off. Also apparently the Kirby symbol in Dee's HUD was not a bit tilted, which it is in the game. Still a great picture tho, the stage by itself looked pretty legit

 

[IGuessItsOver]

I don't know much about legal stuff but, Dark Samus is made by Retro, an american company, but she's part of a Nintendo franchise, which is from a japanese company.
Does this mean that Nintendo owns Dark Samus?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sora doesn't even look like a Western character. AT all.

He looks exactly what I'd imagine a Final Fantasy hero would look like if they were considerably younger.

And gee I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact he was designed by a famous Final Fantasy artist.

 

[Kuon]

"I don't like Sora because he's a western character"
"But he was designed by the same guy who designed Cloud..."
"I just don't like Sora's design"
View attachment 162285

SO THEN JUST SAY YOU DON'T LIKE HIM.

lol I don't like the way he looks or the way he's designed, and I originally thought he was a Western character, because Disney partly owns him

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And Shantae is my second most wanted character, but she's the only Western character I like, because I don't like the designs of any other Western characters. I'm just not a fan of the art style of Western characters aside from Shantae, but is that a bad thing?

Sorry to hear that.

My current most wanted is absolutely western, and I could write a whole thesis on why he deserves it.

But I’ll spare you all.

I agree that different people will favor different artstyles - even within the franchise like . Doesn’t mean we have to like every one of them. But to use “ugh, I hate the artstyle of this genre” to discount all games from a given region is a bit much.

I’ll admit Snake was conspicuous in Brawl by his hyper-realism, which I guess is the artstyle you have issue with. But at this point with such a varied cast, it doesn't feel as awkward to have many different styles anymore.

And besides, even within Western franchises there are the cute-and-cartoony (Banjo) versus the hyperrealistic (Ezio Auditore)
Bet you all expected someone else from me...

Since Sm4sh DLC, Smash is becoming representative of gaming as a whole, so it absolutely makes sense for Western 3rd parties to start joining.

 

[Raspberry]

Have you guys seen the Skull Kid and Bandanna Dee leak, if you did what are your thoughts?

It was proven fake already, unfortunately.

 

[Moon Monkey]

It's not concrete but this is the best we got.

https://nintendoeverything.com/spla...nintendo-direct-will-now-air-on-september-13/

Yeah this is what i saw, floating around. I mean it sounds plausible.
i just don't know how bad of an aftermath it is over there in Japan.

The cat's outta the bag for that Yoshi game so i assume they'll say F it and spill the beans as soon as they can.

 

[Bandana Dee3]

What kinda dicussion is this?

 

[NotDom]

It was proven fake already, unfortunately.

Ah I expected it to be fake, I still hope Skull Kid makes it and I also hope Japan recovers well.

 

[MrRoidley]

I don't know much about legal stuff but, Dark Samus is made by Retro, an american company, but she's part of a Nintendo franchise, a japanese company.
Does this mean that Nintendo owns Dark Samus?

Yes, Retro Studios is a Nintendo subsidiary after all, it's as much from Nintendo as the Nintendo EPD division is I think

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

I pointed out a problem with the shadow casting before the star tilt thing was pointed out but because I used words instead of pictures people didn't seem to notice...