Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[KMDP]

Never thought I'd see the day where Mewtwo was a contender for top tier.

Mewtwo was A Rank in both Project M and Smash 4 (Specifically, 10th Place in 4).

Considering the sheer size of the roster in Smash 4, I'd say 10th place is pretty "top tier". XD

 

[StormC]

Mewtwo was A Rank in both Project M and Smash 4 (Specifically, 10th Place in 4).

Considering the sheer size of the roster in Smash 4, I'd say 10th place is pretty "top tier". XD

Huh, I guess I stand corrected. For some reason I thought Mewtwo was in B in Smash 4.

I don't count Project M. That'd be like saying "never thought I'd see the day where Goku was in Smash," and then someone links a Brawl mod of Goku.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Never thought I'd see the day where Mewtwo was a contender for top tier.

He kind of deserved it after Melee. Oh what a terrible thing decision it was for me to main Mewtwo in melee.

 

[Zinith]

According to my list:

I'm bored again, so I decided to look at the SmashBoard official tier lists and compiled which characters have been represented in the tiers throughout Smash history. I'll be dividing the lists by how many games each character appeared in (the OG 12 was in 4 for example) and averaging the placements (it will be a decimal number frm 0-1). The lower the number, the highest they've been represented.

aren't ranked in Smash 4 due to the universal ban.

There's some special cases where does not have a placement in Brawl and has an entry separate from and . As such and will be treated as separate characters as well as .

Smash 4 has 6 ties. As such the character who's numbered first in SSBU's numbering sequence will take priority (for example will take priority over ).

Anyways:

Characters in 4 Smash games:

0.2230.2280.4490.5350.5520.5890.6410.6420.6510.6600.7280.773

Characters in 3 Smash games:

0.1490.2950.3650.3720.6200.7550.8400.928

Characters in 2 Smash games:

0.0800.1590.1610.1730.2300.2990.3620.3800.4950.5040.5150.5640.6310.6570.6580.6660.766

Characters in 1 Smash game:

0.0180.0360.0910.1580.2180.2360.2550.3680.4550.4730.4910.5450.6000.6150.6320.636:ultrobin0.6910.7630.7820.8000.8180.8360.8730.9230.927

If you put 'em all together it would look like (from overall best to worst):
ultness:

Fox is the 11th best character in the entire Smash line-up...

 

[osby]

I'm not sure tier lists even mean anything at this point. We passed 60 fighters. "Top tier" mostly means "best players main those, so also should you".

 

[KMDP]

Huh, I guess I stand corrected. For some reason I thought Mewtwo was in B in Smash 4.

I don't count Project M. That'd be like saying "never thought I'd see the day where Goku was in Smash," and then someone links a Brawl mod of Goku.

I'm not sure tier lists even mean anything at this point. We passed 60 fighters. "Top tier" mostly means "best players main those, so also should you".

Speaking of tiers, it surprises me that Falco is so much lower tiered than Fox. I mean, understand Roy (the lower sweetspot goes against what you want the sword for), and to an extent Dr. Mario (I'm guessing it's the loss of F.L.U.D.D. in that case? FLUDD never clicked with me tbh), but Falco is... geez.
Fox - A Rank; Falco - F Rank

Remember the days when Fox and Falco were pretty much interchangeable? Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

 

[AzureFlame4]

Well Falco loses a lot of speed, the shine is different, and all of other factors that go into that. Honestly Falco post melee is so sad to me since he used to be so high leveled.

 

[Idon]

Speaking of tiers, it surprises me that Falco is so much lower tiered than Fox. I mean, understand Roy (the lower sweetspot goes against what you want the sword for), and to an extent Dr. Mario (I'm guessing it's the loss of F.L.U.D.D. in that case? FLUDD never clicked with me tbh), but Falco is... geez.
Fox - A Rank; Falco - F Rank

Remember the days when Fox and Falco were pretty much interchangeable? Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Fox got all the dominant genes and Falco got all the recessive ones.
It's pretty much Solid and Liquid Snake all over again.

I'm not sure tier lists even mean anything at this point. We passed 60 fighters. "Top tier" mostly means "best players main those, so also should you".

It's not especially hard to find the top tiers when the top tier SSS+ rank means they break the game in their own special way.

 

[Will]

When has Fox not been a top tier? Brawl doesn't count.

"I'm right, but don't mention the part where I'm not right.", is that what you meant to say?

Brawl.

 

[osby]

Huh, I guess I stand corrected. For some reason I thought Mewtwo was in B in Smash 4.

I don't count Project M. That'd be like saying "never thought I'd see the day where Goku was in Smash," and then someone links a Brawl mod of Goku.

It's still weird to think Mario is top tier, considering he should be kinda... standart?

Also never get why people count Project M as a real game.

 

[UltimateWario]

Also never get why people count Project M as a real game.

Well it had/has a bigger competitive scene than half the "real" games in the franchise, so I'd imagine that's probably got something to do with it.

 

[Zinith]

I remember before Smash 4 released where there was so much promise with Yoshi with his massive gameplay overhaul. *sigh*

 

[KMDP]

Fox got all the dominant genes and Falco got all the recessive ones.
It's pretty much Solid and Liquid Snake all over again.

"GREY FOX!"
"...I'm a Wolf."
"I think he was talking to me."
"You're Orange, though..."
"Not in my Purple Alt I'm not."
"But you're purple in that alt now."
"Hrrrn..."

 

[Will]

It's still weird to think Mario is top tier, considering he should be kinda... standart?

Also never get why people count Project M as a real game.

I believe Ryu and Jago, the "standard class" of their respective titles, rank pretty as well. He is standard, but also easy to pick up and use.

Also Brawl was kinda not for competitive unlike Melee so when Meleelads saw Project M I guess in a sense it was a replacement.

 

[Idon]

It's still weird to think Mario is top tier, considering he should be kinda... standart?

Also never get why people count Project M as a real game.

Mario should be standard, but they kinda gave him above-average everything which made him more than the sum of his parts. Usually applies to most standards in fighting games.

As for Project M, everyone knows it's a fan-mod, but it's a fan-mod that's so different from its base, it really can't be talked about together.
And considering it has gotten overwhelming community support over Brawl and people actually want to discuss it competitively, we might as well categorize it.

 

[KMDP]

I believe Ryu and Jago, the "standard class" of their respective titles, rank pretty as well. He is standard, but also easy to pick up and use.

Also Brawl was kinda not for competitive unlike Melee so when Meleelads saw Project M I guess in a sense it was a replacement.

You know who else is easy to pick up and high tier?

 

[Will]

You know who else is easy to pick up and high tier?

Cloud isn't designed to be well-balanced all-around average build fighter.
And he's behind a paywall until December 7th.

 

[KMDP]

Mario should be standard, but they kinda gave him above-average everything which made him more than the sum of his parts. Usually applies to most standards in fighting games.

"Your plumber was an average doctor, Princess Toadstool, but a brilliant fighter!"

 

[Zinith]

Anyways, despite the previous games' tier lists, I'm heading for greener pastures in Ultimate. *fingers crossed*

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm not sure tier lists even mean anything at this point. We passed 60 fighters. "Top tier" mostly means "best players main those, so also should you".

tbqh, even at a more casual level of play, stage lists and matchup lists will always mean more than tier lists

the reason why MK is so broken in Brawl is he literally has no bad matchups or equal; they're all in his favor. the closest thing is MK vs... MK.

 

[KMDP]

Anyways, despite the previous games' tier lists, I'm heading for greener pastures in Ultimate. *fingers crossed*

Yeah, another Yoshi's Island stage variant.

 

[Will]

Yeah, another Yoshi's Island stage variant.

I mean what else are you gonna call 'em?
Yoshi's Island (SMW1)
Yoshi's Island (SMW2)
Yoshi's Story
Yoshi's Wooly World
Yoshi's Smash Bros.
Yoshi's Subspace Emissary
the list goes on

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I mean what else are you gonna call 'em?
Yoshi's Island (SMW1)
Yoshi's Island (SMW2)
Yoshi's Story
Yoshi's Wooly World
Yoshi's Smash Bros.
Yoshi's Subspace Emissary
the list goes on

Yoshi's Topsy Turvy Island
Yoshi's New Island
Yoshi's Woolly Island
Yoshi's Island DS Island
Isle of Yoshi's
Yoshi's Yacht nearby an Island
Yoshi
Literally Pilotwings except with Yoshi Stages from Smash

...on a real topic, the more I think about it, the more it's crazy how far Yoshi's been robbed of stages. Woolly World, Yoshi's Story, and Island have some really impressive art.

 

[KMDP]

Yoshi's Topsy Turvy Island
Yoshi's New Island
Yoshi's Woolly Island
Yoshi's Island DS Island
Isle of Yoshi's
Yoshi's Yacht nearby an Island
Yoshi
Literally Pilotwings except with Yoshi Stages from Smash

...on a real topic, the more I think about it, the more it's crazy how far Yoshi's been robbed of stages. Woolly World, Yoshi's Story, and Island have some really impressive art.

Yoshi Plains (w/ Yoshi Face)
Isla de Yoshi
Yoshi's Archipelago
Yoshi's Mini-Continent
Strait of Yoshis

 

[StormC]

There's really only one choice for a Yoshi stage.

 

[Will]

Only one Yoshi stage can top them all.

Literally on a giant Yoshi.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

There's really only one choice for a Yoshi stage.

Only one Yoshi stage can top them all.

View attachment 154143

Literally on a giant Yoshi.

i hate all of you and i want all of these stages

 

[Zinith]

There's really only one choice for a Yoshi stage.

I actually want that as a stage... I want to see "tripped as ****" animations for each character

 

[Will]

Speaking of Yoshi remember this ****

Make them into stages too, why not? If we can't have Mach Rider, we have Yoshi's Safari. If we can't have Lip, we have Yoshi's Cookie.
Yoshi can fill in any quota.

 

[Curious Villager]

I mean what else are you gonna call 'em?
Yoshi's Island (SMW1)
Yoshi's Island (SMW2)
Yoshi's Story
Yoshi's Wooly World
Yoshi's Smash Bros.
Yoshi's Subspace Emissary
the list goes on

Yoshi's Topsy Turvy Island
Yoshi's New Island
Yoshi's Woolly Island
Yoshi's Island DS Island
Isle of Yoshi's
Yoshi's Yacht nearby an Island
Yoshi
Literally Pilotwings except with Yoshi Stages from Smash

...on a real topic, the more I think about it, the more it's crazy how far Yoshi's been robbed of stages. Woolly World, Yoshi's Story, and Island have some really impressive art.

Yoshi Plains (w/ Yoshi Face)
Isla de Yoshi
Yoshi's Archipelago
Yoshi's Mini-Continent
Strait of Yoshis

Can't believe y'all forgot about a stage for the best Yoshi game.
Yoshi's Flipping Island.

 

[Zinith]

And they say Yoshi is over-represented...

 

[Thirdkoopa]

yoshi has like next to nothing in pretty much all of these games, lol. if they were going to bother giving him a second icon, they might as well do something with it

At least F-Zero got all of it's popular stages and technically it did get a clone i guess. And an Assist.

 

[Zinith]

yoshi has like next to nothing in pretty much all of these games, lol. if they were going to bother giving him a second icon, they might as well do something with it

At least F-Zero got all of it's popular stages and technically it did get a clone i guess. And an Assist.

Now you know my suffering

 

[Jetsurge]

Can't believe y'all forgot about a stage for the best Yoshi game.
Yoshi's Flipping Island.

Don't forget this masterpiece -

 

[osby]

yoshi has like next to nothing in pretty much all of these games, lol. if they were going to bother giving him a second icon, they might as well do something with it

At least F-Zero got all of it's popular stages and technically it did get a clone i guess. And an Assist.

Zero didn't get a clone, though.
Ganondorf is from Legend of Zelda.
This is like saying Kirby has a semi clone in Smash 64.

 

[Demonfunds]

I really hope they fix whatever is going on right here before release

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is like saying Kirby has a semi clone in Smash 64.

He did though.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I really hope they fix whatever is going on right here before release

You mean whatever is going on in the background or Link's hair?

 

[L9999]

I'm not sure tier lists even mean anything at this point. We passed 60 fighters. "Top tier" mostly means "best players main those, so also should you".

Tier lists are snapshots of the metagame, a quick graphic on the viability standing of the characters. Top > high > mid > low > trash.

Speaking of tiers, it surprises me that Falco is so much lower tiered than Fox. I mean, understand Roy (the lower sweetspot goes against what you want the sword for), and to an extent Dr. Mario (I'm guessing it's the loss of F.L.U.D.D. in that case? FLUDD never clicked with me tbh), but Falco is... geez.
Fox - A Rank; Falco - F Rank

Remember the days when Fox and Falco were pretty much interchangeable? Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Falco was top tier because he had a lot of broken tools to make up for his weakenesses (lasers, dair, and chaingrabs). Smash 4 took them all away, and without a way to make opponents approach and his frailty Falco really falls flat while Fox has mobility on his side even after being nerfed a bit from Brawl.

I remember before Smash 4 released where there was so much promise with Yoshi with his massive gameplay overhaul. *sigh*

4 years and Yoshi did absolutely nothing in Smash 4. He had more meta advancement in S64 lol.

 

[Demonfunds]

You mean whatever is going on in the background or Link's hair?

Hair, background looks fine to me, they even got the four giants which is a very nice touch.