Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[UserKev]

Swamp is right, Smash 4 followed mostly the same trend. However, it didn't expand a lot on existing Nintendo franchises like Brawl did. Outside of Fire Emblem, Mario and Kid Icarus, what long running Nintendo franchise got anything more than just a stage from the most recent games? Where Brawl added characters from Zelda, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Metroid and Star Fox, Smash 4 seemed to give these franchises no love at all. And that's where the most complains come from I imagine. At least, that's my complaint about the newcomers of Smash 4.

I also have this belief. Smash 4 is just.. advertisement. The series is becoming more about relevance each release. What I dislike about Smash 4, maybe not the 3DS version but something about the Wii U version is off.

Smash is suppose to keep a balance of old school and new school.

 

[Opossum]

I also have this belief. Smash 4 is just.. advertisement. The series is becoming more about relevance each release. What I dislike about Smash 4, maybe not the 3DS version but something about the Wii U version is off.

Smash is suppose to keep a balance of old school and new school.

But that's just the thing...Smash has always been like that.

In Smash 64 and Melee it didn't seem as apparent because Nintendo was still adding their major characters. Every one of the original twelve barring Samus and Ness had either a recent N64 or GB game, and EarthBound and Super Metroid were still within the last five to ten years, not to mention Samus being a major character.

In Melee, the original planned roster's newcomers consisted of Bowser, Peach, Zelda (+Sheik), and Mewtwo (all major characters of Nintendo's Big Three), Marth (the first hero of a popular then Japanese-only series), and two token retros (Ice Climbers and Game and Watch). When the clones were added we got additional versions of Mario and Link, we got the main villain of Nintendo's third biggest franchise (Ganondorf), we got Fox's second in command (Falco), and we got two purely advertisement characters (Roy for The Binding Blade and Pichu for Gold and Silver).

Brawl's entire newcomer roster came from recent games (funny enough, even the two token retros) as Swamp pointed out.

It isn't a new issue. What it is is that it seems more apparent now, and that's because we're at the point where almost all of the bigger, important characters with long legacies are already in the game. At this point we're scrapping the bottom of the metaphorical barrel. Even then, we got quite a few characters in Smash 4 that were more than just advertising.

Rosalina and Bowser Jr. had become Mario mainstays. Palutena may have only gotten considered because of Uprising, but she'd been around since the eighties. Little Mac is from a series that was incredibly popular in the arcade and NES days, and is still popular today. Duck Hunt is the token retro, and much more well known than our last few token retros, I'd say. Villager is the main character of a series that's been big since the GameCube, and N64DD for Japan. Miis became cultural icons when the Wii launched. Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Cloud had storied histories and are some of the biggest names in gaming. Wii Fit Trainer was a surprise pick, yes, but she wasn't made to advertise (hell, Smash's demographic doesn't even overlap with Wii Fit's in the slightest). She was from a best selling series on the Wii.

Then we look at the ones who are left: Greninja, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Shulk, Dark Pit, and Bayonetta.

Robin, Lucina, and Corrin come from a series that doesn't keep a static cast, so putting in the newest hero just makes sense, like it did with Roy and Ike in Melee and Brawl. Lucina was also a last minute bonus clone. Greninja is the same case as the Fire Emblem crew. It makes sense that they'd want a Pokémon from the newest generation instead of, say, going back to Hoenn and picking someone like Shiftry.

Dark Pit was a bonus clone from a recent game, like Lucina, and he initially wasn't even his own character. Hell, he's the only newcomer who didn't get a trailer, so if he was an advertisement, they for sure did a poor job. Shulk was the main hero of a successful new IP that had just recently gotten localized due to fan demand, just prior to when Sakurai decided on the roster. Bayonetta is a different case entirely since she wasn't Sakurai's choice, but the winner of a fan poll.

Smash has always acted as an "advertisement." Now, however, all of the truly evergreen characters are already in, so the way rosters are chosen tends to sway toward newer characters. Smash was never about "balancing new and old."

 

[Deleted member]

Smash is "supposed" to do a lot of things according to the fanbase.

 

[UserKev]

But that's just the thing...Smash has always been like that.

In Smash 64 and Melee it didn't seem as apparent because Nintendo was still adding their major characters. Every one of the original twelve barring Samus and Ness had either a recent N64 or GB game, and EarthBound and Super Metroid were still within the last five to ten years, not to mention Samus being a major character.

In Melee, the original planned roster's newcomers consisted of Bowser, Peach, Zelda (+Sheik), and Mewtwo (all major characters of Nintendo's Big Three), Marth (the first hero of a popular then Japanese-only series), and two token retros (Ice Climbers and Game and Watch). When the clones were added we got additional versions of Mario and Link, we got the main villain of Nintendo's third biggest franchise (Ganondorf), we got Fox's second in command (Falco), and we got two purely advertisement characters (Roy for The Binding Blade and Pichu for Gold and Silver).

Brawl's entire newcomer roster came from recent games (funny enough, even the two token retros) as Swamp pointed out.

It isn't a new issue. What it is is that it seems more apparent now, and that's because we're at the point where almost all of the bigger, important characters with long legacies are already in the game. At this point we're scrapping the bottom of the metaphorical barrel. Even then, we got quite a few characters in Smash 4 that were more than just advertising.

Rosalina and Bowser Jr. had become Mario mainstays. Palutena may have only gotten considered because of Uprising, but she'd been around since the eighties. Little Mac is from a series that was incredibly popular in the arcade and NES days, and is still popular today. Duck Hunt is the token retro, and much more well known than our last few token retros, I'd say. Villager is the main character of a series that's been big since the GameCube, and N64DD for Japan. Miis became cultural icons when the Wii launched. Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Cloud had storied histories and are some of the biggest names in gaming. Wii Fit Trainer was a surprise pick, yes, but she wasn't made to advertise (hell, Smash's demographic doesn't even overlap with Wii Fit's in the slightest). She was from a best selling series on the Wii.

Then we look at the ones who are left: Greninja, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, Shulk, Dark Pit, and Bayonetta.

Robin, Lucina, and Corrin come from a series that doesn't keep a static cast, so putting in the newest hero just makes sense, like it did with Roy and Ike in Melee and Brawl. Lucina was also a last minute bonus clone. Greninja is the same case as the Fire Emblem crew. It makes sense that they'd want a Pokémon from the newest generation instead of, say, going back to Hoenn and picking someone like Shiftry.

Dark Pit was a bonus clone from a recent game, like Lucina, and he initially wasn't even his own character. Hell, he's the only newcomer who didn't get a trailer, so if he was an advertisement, they for sure did a poor job. Shulk was the main hero of a successful new IP that had just recently gotten localized due to fan demand, just prior to when Sakurai decided on the roster. Bayonetta is a different case entirely since she wasn't Sakurai's choice, but the winner of a fan poll.

I already came to the awareness of the near end of significant characters when some users had completely unrealistic beliefs that a new Smash would be revealed at the passed E3. Completely blew my away.

Smash has always acted as an "advertisement." Now, however, all of the truly evergreen characters are already in, so the way rosters are chosen tends to sway toward newer characters. Smash was never about "balancing new and old."

No it wasn't. Sakurai originally made Smash because it was just generally interesting to have Mario Vs. Pikachu for example.

Smash is "supposed" to do a lot of things according to the fanbase.

Too many themes are still missing. That's honest fact.

 

[Opossum]

I already came to the awareness of the near end of significant characters when some users had completely unrealistic beliefs that a new Smash would be revealed at the passed E3. Completely blew my away.



No it wasn't. Sakurai originally made Smash because it was just generally interesting to have Mario Vs. Pikachu for example.



Too many themes are still missing. That's honest fact.

Yes, Mario and Pikachu. Nintendo's two most well known characters. Not a lot of the irrelevant second stringers a lot of fans complain about being absent.


And even then, was there even a significant portion that thought a Smash 5 would be shown? Most people expected a Smash 4 port if anything.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It should be noted that we are kind of at a point where certain major franchises have already represented their major characters. Unless Toad somehow gets the playable spot, the Super Mario Bros. franchise has pretty much reached its limit with the representatives.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

You mention characters like Krystal and Isaac but apart from the fact they debuted a gen earlier, characters like Rosalina and WFT are very comparable to them when it comes to how big their legacies are.
Their earlier debut might make them seem are "better picks" but just because Rosalina debuted later doesn't mean she doesn't have the same impact to this day and age.

It's very simple really, when it comes to older characters, the bottom of the barrel is in sight, unless you pull more from third parties.
Characters like K. Rool and Dixie are the exception more than they are the rule as are the characters that debuted or got revived in the current gen and even then these outliers are in Brawl as well.

EDIT: I mean there are still characters that appeared in over fourty games but they got their own fan-rules that work against them.

 

[UserKev]

Yes, Mario and Pikachu. Nintendo's two most well known characters. Not a lot of the irrelevant second stringers a lot of fans complain about being absent.

At the time of Smash 64 and Melee's release, Nintendo was just alone, still in their golden ago. Advertisement wasn't needed for them back then.

And even then, was there even a significant portion that thought a Smash 5 would be shown? Most people expected a Smash 4 port if anything.

Asked the fans that believed it, man.

 

[Bowserlick]

Spring Man gets three ARMs to choose from at the selection screen. One for his primary arm and another for his secondary. You can choose the same arm for each one. The arms have different elemental properties and have bonuses when charged.

There is an option to press "A" after many or all "A" attack to swing with the second ARM.

 

[Opossum]

broken quote

Yeah, they didn't "need" advertisement because they were still adding their incredibly important characters. My point is that all of the important older characters who've stayed important (barring like, Toad and Dixie) are already in. And even then, comparatively few characters on Smash 4's newcomer roster are purely for advertisement.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Idea: Everybody that complains about the lack of older and more iconic characters should support Daisy and Waluigi or shut up.

 

[GaroMaster]

Personally, I felt as though that aside from the modes, Smash 4 felt like a complete game.
I mean, good lord. You had 51 characters at launch and an additional 7 DLC characters for a total of 58 fighters. Any fan of fighting games would kill for that roster size provided that it would be balanced. And while you could argue that the likes of Bayonetta could upset this balance, Smash 4 did a fantastic job at not having any overly OP characters that the likes of Brawl and to a lesser extent Melee suffered from. It's an amazing feat to accomplish with such a big roster.
As for some characters and franchises not getting enough recognition, I know that feeling very well since I'm big on the likes of Rayman and King K. Rool on getting in.
But you know what? Sakurai can make some questionable decisions, but at least he doesn't have the nerve to tell us that nobody remembers them and they're more like functions and less like fighters. That's how the guys making MvC:I are treating the X-Men and the roster as a whole.
Do I wish more old-school fighters got in? Absolutely. But I don't think many of us realize how much better off we are compared to, say, MvC when it comes to this type of thing.

 

[Deleted member]

Too many themes are still missing. That's honest fact.

You're going to have to clarify a bit here. What exactly do you mean by "themes"?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

New =/= purely advertisement folks.

A lot of those new characters were...

• Popular Requests
• Ripe with Moveset Potential
• Stood out in some way

Just the same as any character really.

 

[DJ3DS]

Personally, I felt as though that aside from the modes, Smash 4 felt like a complete game.
I mean, good lord. You had 51 characters at launch and an additional 7 DLC characters for a total of 58 fighters. Any fan of fighting games would kill for that roster size provided that it would be balanced. And while you could argue that the likes of Bayonetta could upset this balance, Smash 4 did a fantastic job at not having any overly OP characters that the likes of Brawl and to a lesser extent Melee suffered from. It's an amazing feat to accomplish with such a big roster.
As for some characters and franchises not getting enough recognition, I know that feeling very well since I'm big on the likes of Rayman and King K. Rool on getting in.
But you know what? Sakurai can make some questionable decisions, but at least he doesn't have the nerve to tell us that nobody remembers them and they're more like functions and less like fighters. That's how the guys making MvC:I are treating the X-Men and the roster as a whole.
Do I wish more old-school fighters got in? Absolutely. But I don't think many of us realize how much better off we are compared to, say, MvC when it comes to this type of thing.

Whilst I agree with the majority of what you're saying, as a 3DS player I almost feel like Smash 4 felt incomplete despite the roster because of the modes. I could and did kill endless hours on Melee and Brawl in the single player modes, be those events, stadium, adventure or classic. In this game, there's very little incentive to touch Classic/All-Star as the characters are so easily unlockable through VS mode and similarly with the stages. Sure, the multiplayer is fantastic but you can't/don't want that the whole time.

So for Switch, that's what I'd like mixed up. More Stadium, an Adventure Mode like Melee (because I don't expect SSE) and a good fraction of the roster initially locked for added incentive to play through these modes.

 

[UserKev]

Yeah, they didn't "need" advertisement because they were still adding their incredibly important characters. My point is that all of the important older characters who've stayed important (barring like, Toad and Dixie) are already in. And even then, comparatively few characters on Smash 4's newcomer roster are purely for advertisement.

No hard feelings, dude.

You're going to have to clarify a bit here. What exactly do you mean by "themes"?

Don't worry about it.

 

[GaroMaster]

Whilst I agree with the majority of what you're saying, as a 3DS player I almost feel like Smash 4 felt incomplete despite the roster because of the modes. I could and did kill endless hours on Melee and Brawl in the single player modes, be those events, stadium, adventure or classic. In this game, there's very little incentive to touch Classic/All-Star as the characters are so easily unlockable through VS mode and similarly with the stages. Sure, the multiplayer is fantastic but you can't/don't want that the whole time.

So for Switch, that's what I'd like mixed up. More Stadium, an Adventure Mode like Melee (because I don't expect SSE) and a good fraction of the roster initially locked for added incentive to play through these modes.

I can see where you're coming from. That was me with Brawl and Melee as well.
I really do want more modes for Smash 4 when it comes to Switch..... maybe. We don't know for sure if it's coming, but I'm pretty sure once Pokken is out of the way, we'll probably see it. Heck, maybe they're taking so long to make it due to new modes. I really hope that's the case.

 

[N3ON]

If Smash valued new characters as opposed to old those would be the ones you lot defend.
If Smash valued old characters as opposed to new those would be the ones you lot defend.


The thing is that Smash has for a while (not always, check yo heads - Melee's original additions were two retros, three mainstays, a Pokemon not from the current gen, a new kid and the OG - not current - protagonist) focused on what has happened lately, but that hasn't been so readily apparent until Smash 4 because the characters that typically made it in were big enough to be recurring and therefore not stick out as "recent" because they were ever-present. But as the bar gets lower it becomes more obvious what the tactic here is; employing characters of recent impact.

People believed the Melee-style balance of old and new would perpetuate, and because Brawl added retros and new characters, but mostly ones of constant relevance, people didn't realize there was a shift. Brawl masked it. That's why you saw rosters with K. Rool and Isaac and Ridley and Krystal and Saki and the like at the beginning of Smash 4 spec. That's why you saw people passing over a sixth gen Pokemon in favour of Mewtwo or some including Roy on their rosters instead of Chrom (which turned out to become reality, though for different reasons than anticipated). However with fewer ever-present heavy-hitters to include, it became obvious with Smash 4 how roster selection had changed over the years.

I'd prefer the Melee-style approach. But clearly that's not going to happen, for a number of reasons. Though **** DLC would've been a fine time to throw the fans a bone with K. Rool or Isaac or someone like that.

Oh and fwiw I'm not saying they're necessarily bad characters or choices but & were clearly promotional additions. At least, they're the two most obvious.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I also have this belief. Smash 4 is just.. advertisement. The series is becoming more about relevance each release. What I dislike about Smash 4, maybe not the 3DS version but something about the Wii U version is off.

Smash is suppose to keep a balance of old school and new school.

Oh it had it's appeal to fans of the old school. But thats only in the form of third party characters (which I never felt for anyway, actively wanted Sonic excluded for Brawl for example). Oh and I guess Duck Hunt Dog / Duo. After that is nothing. All other newcomers where based on games I always felt where just the latest cash cows. The newcomers chosen felt a lot less like genuine choices of the most popular Nintendo characters, and far more forced. I literally wouldn't miss any character new since Smash 4 if they where all to be cut.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yeah man I know they're just trying to get more of that Sunshine dough by including Bowser Jr.

 

[UserKev]

Oh it had it's appeal to fans of the old school. But thats only in the form of third party characters (which I never felt for anyway, actively wanted Sonic excluded for Brawl for example). Oh and I guess Duck Hunt Dog / Duo. After that is nothing. All other newcomers where based on games I always felt where just the latest cash cows. The newcomers chosen felt a lot less like genuine choices of the most popular Nintendo characters, and far more forced. I literally wouldn't miss any character new since Smash 4 if they where all to be cut.

I didn't mean old school by characters, man. I meant old school by theme. Tons of classic themes like, Bowser's Road are still missing from Smash.

Ryu's inclusion definitely ruined Mega Man's time to shine. That's not saying Ryu shouldn't have been in Smash. Just that, Smash 4 wasn't his time. It should have been Smash 5.

As far as characters of Smash 4 to be cut, I'd probably just miss Bowser. Jr. because he purely deserves his slot and, he's generally a memorable veteran.

All in all, yeah. Smash 4 tried to hard.

 

[Opossum]

I didn't mean old school by characters, man. I meant old school by theme. Tons of classic themes like, Bowser's Road are still missing from Smash.

Ryu's inclusion definitely ruined Mega Man's time to shine. That's not saying Ryu shouldn't have been in Smash. Just that, Smash 4 wasn't his time. It should have been Smash 5.

As far as characters of Smash 4 to be cut, I'd probably just miss Bowser. Jr. because he purely deserves his slot and, he's generally a memorable veteran.

All in all, yeah. Smash 4 tried to hard.

I think I get where you're coming from with the Mega Man/Ryu thing, but wouldn't the gap between the game's launch and Ryu's DLC reveal still keep the Mega Man hype? From E3 2013 to E3 2015 he was the sole Capcom character. I'd say that's far enough where Ryu wouldn't effect Mega Man's hype levels.

Not to mention Mega Man is still looked at as a great addition today, so it's not like Ryu cast him aside in fans' eyes.

 

[APC99]

(Incredibly popular longstanding IP w/o a Fighter in Smash)
(Fan-favorites based off popularity / iconic status)
(New well-known franchises not relevant / available during Brawl)
(Newer popular characters from pre-existing franchise)
(Provide a role as "new ____ character" / "Advertisement")
(The classic retro fighter)
(Last-minute upgrades)


Included the DLC vets and Doctor Mario for argument's sake.

We know that Corrin was picked to help promote Fates, and that Sakurai picked out Robin / Greninja as representatives for the newest entries in Fire Emblem / Pokemon, respectively. However, SSB4 managed to still hit a lot of the popular characters. Mega Man was probably the biggest addition to the game and they knew it. Little Mac and Pac-Man were HUGE back in the speculation era, as was Palutena, the Miis, an Animal Crossing fighter...

I didn't mean old school by characters, man. I meant old school by theme. Tons of classic themes like, Bowser's Road are still missing from Smash.

Ryu's inclusion definitely ruined Mega Man's time to shine. That's not saying Ryu shouldn't have been in Smash. Just that, Smash 4 wasn't his time. It should have been Smash 5.

As far as characters of Smash 4 to be cut, I'd probably just miss Bowser. Jr. because he purely deserves his slot and, he's generally a memorable veteran.

All in all, yeah. Smash 4 tried to hard.

I do think that, from here on out, there's a lot less "legacy fighters" that have consistently missed inclusion like Villager or Duck Hunt. Honestly, the only character I feel is a guarantee is the Inkling, and possibly the return of Ice Climbers and Wolf (moreso Icies).

I don't think, however, that Smash 4 tried too hard. It provided probably the best Smash experience. But it's going to be extremely difficult to top it. The quartet of Mario, Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man being able to fight against each other? Link vs. Cloud? Plus the return of Mewtwo? Smash 4 was the biggest entry yet, and it's going to be difficult to top the hype train.

The only character I can think of that would create a HUGE uproar and people would go nuts over is Ridley, and that's not necessarily a unanimous, happy uproar. More like a bunch of people spitting venom at each other about who was right and who was wrong.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley wouldn't even be that big of a reveal. Not compared to the likes of the enormous hype of Mewtwo, Megaman or Cloud at least. Ridley is only truely popular on the internet. I've never heard people talk about him in real life, much less mentoin him. Smash 4 established the "trend" that excisting franchises don't need a new character every entry. If we're getting a new Metroid character, it's gotta be Sylux or even the Federation Trooper. Can't imagine anything else.

The barrel just doesn't go that much deeper than Rare's most popular DKC characters, Toad, Bandana Dee, a few classic and highly popular Pokemon and Fire Emblem Lords, and maybe a popular Zelda character. That and characters from newer or old school entries. I just don't think Ridley is as big of a deal as people make him out to be. He might not even be in the upcoming Metroid games for example.

 

[lordvaati]

Yeah, we're nearing the limit of classic franchises left, literally to the point where we have some requesting a rep based on Hanafuda cards of all things. With exceptions like remainders of the DKC cast,Toad, Ridley, Isaac and maybe some older Pokemon like Meowth or Gardevoir or something pretty much every notable classic character is in the game now.

at this point all the major things left are the newer generation Nintendo games, which is not even a bad thing at all as we have standouts like Splatoon, newcomers like ARMs, eShop hits like Pushmo and so forth. Outside of Phil Spencer saying on Twitter that he would be fine with allowing Rareware characters I feel the era of solely legacy characters is near the end.

 

[APC99]

Spoiler: Large Image

Just throwing it out there. That little brown spot is what they're aiming for when picking characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Spoiler: Large Image

View attachment 131454

Just throwing it out there. That little brown spot is what they're aiming for when picking characters.

I mostly like what would show up in the orange spot...

Only thing recent I like is Twinella from ARMS. Think Ribbon Girl and Spring Man look extremely generic and uninspiring.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah man I know they're just trying to get more of that Sunshine dough by including Bowser Jr.

Jr has appeared since then, his mech form was included in a Galaxy game an some NSMB games ( I know this because I incorrectly thought he was irrelevant since Sunshine and was corrected). So yeah his point still stands.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah Bowser Jr. had a lot of staying power in the Mario franchise. Still think its hugely ironic that he shares his slot with the Koopalings. A common complaint about Jr. was that he totaly usurped the roles of the Koopalings.

Anyway most of us totally didn't see Rosalina coming. And I think that's why she's one of my favorite newcomers of Smash 4. Bowser Jr. wasn't exactly seen as likely either. There was a lot of Toad support I remember! Mario debates where sometimes pretty heated even.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah Bowser Jr. had a lot of staying power in the Mario franchise. Still think its hugely ironic that he shares his slot with the Koopalings. A common complaint about Jr. was that he totaly usurped the roles of the Koopalings.

Anyway most of us totally didn't see Rosalina coming. And I think that's why she's one of my favorite newcomers of Smash 4. Bowser Jr. wasn't exactly seen as likely either. There was a lot of Toad support I remember! Mario debates where sometimes pretty heated even.

Rosa makes sense in hindsight though, she just fell under the radar because she wasn't that big within the community.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah man I know they're just trying to get more of that Sunshine dough by including Bowser Jr.

More like they were trying to get more of that New Super Mario Bros. Wii / 2 / U dough.

 

[A Distant Demon]

If we're really going to act like Bowser jr. is an advertisement character I really have no idea what to say

 

[Opossum]

If we're really going to act like Bowser jr. is an advertisement character I really have no idea what to say

At this point "advertisement" means "character I don't like/didn't ask for."

 

[Bowserlick]

Smash is an advertisement for Nintendo. Which is why people buy it.

 

[lordvaati]

^Precsely. hell, pretty much ever crossover fighter(or crossover in general) is like that.

 

[FunAtParties]

If we're really going to act like Bowser jr. is an advertisement character I really have no idea what to say

The point is Nintendo is still using him. Y'all were acting like he's been irrelevant for years.

Smash is an advertisement for Nintendo. Which is why people buy it.

Crossover =/= Advertisement.

 

[Bowserlick]

The point is Nintendo is still using him. Y'all were acting like he's been irrelevant for years.



Crossover =/= Advertisement.

In this case, it obviously is an advertisement. Agree or disagree if you have the courage of Bowser.

 

[FunAtParties]

In this case, it obviously is an advertisement. Agree or disagree if you have the courage of Bowser.

I don't think you can make that call either way. Nintendo characters probably only made it in the first place to convince higher ups to allow them to make it (or else it would be Dragon King), but to say that the game only gets made to advertise is pure speculation. Yeah certain characters have made it for no other reason than to advertise new games, but forgive me if I have my doubts that Smash Bros has always just been one intricately designed ad.

 

[GaroMaster]

Just because a character recently appeared doesn't make them an advertisement.
Bowser Jr. got in due to his merits as a character and his fairly big role in the Mario universe. It just so happens that he was in many recent games.
Honestly, you're asking yourself to be disappointed in the roster if you choose to have this mindset. Although some are "advertisements" (), it's not the driving force for their inclusion. There was a lot of thought put into their movesets, imo.
I'm not saying you're wrong with having this mindset. Personally, I find it to be an unhealthy mindset to have and will cause you to dislike other crossover games for doing the same.
I guarantee you that when the likes of Inkling and an ARMS character will potentially get announced, there will be a vocal minority that will preach the word "advertisement".

 

[Curious Villager]

Wait, wasn't one of the main detracting reasons to Bowser jr (Other than Rosalina being included to the point most didn't see another Mario character happening) that he didn't make as many recent appearances in the then more recent Mario games than he used too? Like he missed the boat on New Super Mario Bros 2, only made an optional boss appearance in Dream Team and wasn't even playable in the original Wii U version of Mario Kart 8 (but the Koopalings did) He did make an appearance in New Super Mario Bros U and Sticker Star though but that apparently didn't mean much to some people....