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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Imadethistoseealeak

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Pyra's voice actor denied having done any voice work for Smash. She talks about it at the very end of the video below.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/259891328

Which means three possible scenarios:

1. She's under NDA
2. She's unaware of the project and hasn't recorded it yet
3. Pyra isn't in Smash
Wasn't there a thing where Chroms voice actor said he didn't do voice work for smash, which was false but he also wasn't a character?

I defintely remember this with some character in Smash 4, am I remembering wrong?
 

Zerp

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So if Charizard reverted back to Pokemon Trainer as the only transforming veteran back, would you be ok with it? I heard some people saying that Charizard felt empty without Squirtle and Ivysaur, even with the moveset modifications.
I'd be fine with it, but only if they got rid of the horrific stamina and type-weakness mechanics, especially the stamina mechanic, that thing was ridiculous, the stamina just got in the way of everyone who wanted to main/solo-main any of the Pokemon locked onto Pokemon Trainer and basically told them "no, you can't do that, no fun allowed".

From the article:

Tangentially, the balancing concern is all about that last part. Every character you add needs to be balanced in relation to every previous character. Adding a new character to 64 means testing 12 matchups. Adding a new character to Smash 4 means testing around 50. Even then, it's a huge simplification, the reality not being any more in favor of it being an easy task.
That's true, but my point was that the balance team in Smash 4 didn't do the best of jobs, yes, it'd be harder to balance the game with more characters, but what I'm saying is that they were never going to balance it well in the first place, even if we cut down the roster to just 20 or so characters I have no faith that we'd end up getting a game that's balanced. It's definitely harder to make a balanced game with 58 characters than 12, but they're the professionals, and if they seriously created a greater gap between the strongest and weakest character than what existed in their own 19 year old game, then I don't think they really prioritized balance much or were blocked from doing their job properly because Sakurai or someone else wouldn't let them (Sakurai has a veto power over the balance team's decisions, and I have a stinging suspicion that that's a major source of the game's imbalances).

But yeah, you are correct, adding characters really does make the game harder to balance.
They're not bad at balancing, they're bad at balancing Smash. These are some of the same people who balanced Tekken 7, a much more balanced game. The problem is that they aren't Smash players, and they didn't understand the game's systems well enough to do a good job balancing it.
Also, the game's not as badly balanced as it seems. There are 10 to 15 characters who are significantly better than the rest of the cast, and 5 to 10 that are significantly worse, but the balance in the middle's pretty good, which is why there's been so much mobility in the mid tiers throughout the game's lifespan.
I don't think it's necessarily just because they weren't smash players (Although that really could be a major factor, I've actually never considered that before lol), I think a lot of it might have to do with Sakurai, he can veto any change they made and was one of the people in charge of the game's balance, and I doubt a Namco-led team would actually go out of their way to nerf Dedede and never try buffing him. I also find it highly suspicious that right after Sakurai left to take his break is when Sheik got her big 1.1.5 nerfs, it could be a coincidence but who knows. I probably should have made that more clear, now that I'm looking back at my post, it does look like I'm saying that everyone on the balance team is terrible lol. Also, yeah, I agree, the Mid-tier balance IS good, my problem's pretty much exclusively with how massive the gap between the Bottom-tiers and Top-tiers is. It's an improvement over Melee and Brawl but I want more lol.
Also, Smash 64 is balanced in the same way Street Fighter 1 is. Everyone's basically the same.
Fair point.
Take away the bottom tiers and tippity top tiers (Bayo/Cloud) and the game is very balanced.

Its actually hilarious to me because when people were still figuring out Bayo and Cloud everyone was gloating to each other about how amazingly the game is balanced.

Since those two have been figured out I'm hearing "oh the balance team for Smash sucks."

Excuse me but **** that. They did a great job. Cloud and Bayo unfortunately were realised to be very difficult to deal with competitively very late in the games lifespan. As evidence the last patch exclusively touched Bayonetta (and one other thing I think was a glitch or something) due to fan outcry.

Since that last balance patch people further and further optimised Bayonetta and Cloud but the balance team had moved on. THATS why the meta is in its current state.

Honestly, I have had my fair share of salty experiences with Clouds and Bayos but SUCK. IT. UP. There will always, in every fighting game, be a best character. That is unavoidable. You go play any other fighting game and the top tier characters will either piss you off or be your main.

Just because they don't cease all other projects so they can patch Smash 4 indefinately does not mean they did a bad job.
Bayonetta is actually my favorite match-up to play against, viewing the game as unbalanced doesn't equate to me being a cry-baby or salty. The current state of the Top Tiers wasn't my main problem with the game's balance, I've been saying the balance sucked for a long time and it was before Cloud and Bayonetta were even released lol, I never thought the game was amazingly balanced, throughout the entirety of Smash 4's patches they never even TRIED buffing my main, why would I think that? Also, I get that it's natural that there must be a best and worst character, but that doesn't mean we can't strive to make the gap between those two smaller than it is.
 
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Don't think Skye saying she doesn't know anything about Pyra in Smash means anything. She either really doesn't know anything or is under an NDA; she would deny it either way. She had to reply too since the comment about Smash came with a donation, so there's nothing to read into.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Wasn't there a thing where Chroms voice actor said he didn't do voice work for smash, which was false but he also wasn't a character?

I defintely remember this with some character in Smash 4, am I remembering wrong?
It's one of those of "technically true". But yeah, I remember that one.

This could be a similar case. Or it could be nothing. Who knows.
 

Radical Bones

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I'd still really like to see Pokemon Trainer as a character that actually fights, but I can see how Pokemon and Game Freak would be against Red beating up a Pikachu.
 

Arcanir

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Wasn't there a thing where Chroms voice actor said he didn't do voice work for smash, which was false but he also wasn't a character?

I defintely remember this with some character in Smash 4, am I remembering wrong?
He was asked, but it should be noted that the article in question (or at least the one I found) was from July 2013, which to put into perspective was about a month after the game was first revealed at E3 that same year and over a year from the 3DS' release. By comparison, Skye Bennett is making her statement at least half a year out from the latest possible release date of the game (provided it's not delayed). So there's quite a gap between when Matthew Mercer made his statement and Skye Bennett made hers, and he could've easily been telling the truth at the time rather then being under NDA.
 
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blackghost

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The last part is largely irrelevant as the whole point of bringing Geno up is that there no actual rule that a third-party character has to be big (and Square Enix is the only reason why Geno isn't playable, not Sakurai). It's just an assumption you've made that icon status is important despite the fact that Sakurai has never stated anything like that. I remember making this assumption myself before being proven wrong.
there is no actual rule yes. but there is little to no point in nintendo doing everything it takes (copyright, royalties, contracts, ect) if the character won't make a splash. i'm in law school right now there is no way Nintendo would go through an international legal process without expecting a significant return which is why every 3rd party added so far has been a well recognized character.
 

Roberk

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Pyra's voice actor denied having done any voice work for Smash. She talks about it at the very end of the video below.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/259891328

Which means three possible scenarios:

1. She's under NDA
2. She's unaware of the project and hasn't recorded it yet
3. Pyra isn't in Smash
If they reused Pyra audio from XC2, would that count as the actress not recording anything for Smash specifically? With how much voice acting that game/Pyra has, I'm sure they can pull a few lines and make them fit if that's the case.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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there is no actual rule yes. but there is little to no point in nintendo doing everything it takes (copyright, royalties, contracts, ect) if the character won't make a splash. i'm in law school right now there is no way Nintendo would go through an international legal process without expecting a significant return which is why every 3rd party added so far has been a well recognized character.
Though part of that is what Sakurai said for his general 3rd party selections "Must have a gaming history". Bayonetta aside, that applies to the rest of the 3rd parties. So it's still what he's looking for, with unique exceptions of course.

But this is a good point too. And part of what being "realizable" means in the case of Bayonetta. It's easy for Nintendo to go for characters that are easy to promote. Hence, if they were to go for a lesser 3rd party, it'd be one that would be popular enough to sell(for instance, Rabbids, Shovel Knight, Crash, Rayman, Lara Croft. Other examples exist, but you get the idea. None of these are severely huge in the same way MegaMan is, but still are amazing options for multiple customers).
 

BluePikmin11

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Well after gathering some opinions about transformations, I am stumped. I am assuming you people read my thoughts on transformations and the suggestions I brought up in the analysis. While your thoughts did help me seriously consider making ZSS/Sheik separate when thinking about heavily used those characters are in the Smash 4 competitive scene, I feel transformations will be coming back for one veteran. Pokemon Trainer, at least, to fix the easy solutions of getting ridding of stamina/weaknesses so that Charizard does not stick out like a sore thumb.

I would be on the opposite side, but I just have this aching feeling we should not be dismissing transformations entirely. :/
 
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MopedOfJustice

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Those transformations may work, but the gameplay is the key difference. Those two games, despite one being a 2D fighter, and the other more of an "arena" 2D fighter (I don't really know how else to describe Soul Calibur lol) they don't function the same way as Smash, where a KO is earned from launching a character off-screen. It may work in those games, but transformations in those games wouldn't necessarily work/function the same way as they would in Smash.
I think it’s more of an unspoken rule.
That's an incredibly flimsy argument. I see know reason why Gen couldn't be adapted to Smash just like Ryu was. I wouldn't advocate for adding him, since it'd be a waste of a slot, but if he was modded in or something, I think he'd actually be a pretty good addition.
 

Roberk

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Here's some more useless info that doesn't really mean anything hints about E3 that can get people more hyped. Apparently, Gamestop got 15 placeholders to reserve in their system today, all for Switch games.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ga...itch-game-skus-in-their-system-e3-hype.41643/

Nintendo Direct this month confirmed! It's almost certain that this is related to E3. Here's what I anticipate these games are.

  1. Smash
  2. Pokemon [Placeholder 1] Version
  3. Pokemon [Placeholder 2] Version
  4. Fire Emblem
  5. Yoshi
  6. Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate
  7. Bayonetta 3
  8. Metroid Prime 4
  9. Pikmin 4
  10. Animal Crossing
  11. [Placeholder]
  12. [Placeholder]
  13. [Placeholder]
  14. [Placeholder]
  15. [Placeholder]

Can't really think of anything else. What do you guys think the spots past Bayonetta 3 could be? I think everything up to that point is confirmed for this year, but AC, MP4, and P4 either have no info right now or seem more like 2019 releases.

EDIT: Forgot about Bayo 3, added it into the confirmed.
 
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RandomAce

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Here's some more useless info that doesn't really mean anything hints about E3 that can get people more hyped. Apparently, Gamestop got 15 placeholders to reserve in their system today, all for Switch games.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ga...itch-game-skus-in-their-system-e3-hype.41643/

Nintendo Direct this month confirmed! It's almost certain that this is related to E3. Here's what I anticipate these games are.

  1. Smash
  2. Pokemon [Placeholder 1] Version
  3. Pokemon [Placeholder 2] Version
  4. Fire Emblem
  5. Yoshi
  6. Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate
  7. Bayonetta 3
  8. Metroid Prime 4
  9. Pikmin 4
  10. Animal Crossing
  11. [Placeholder]
  12. [Placeholder]
  13. [Placeholder]
  14. [Placeholder]
  15. [Placeholder]

Can't really think of anything else. What do you guys think the spots past Bayonetta 3 could be? I think everything up to that point is confirmed for this year, but AC, MP4, and P4 either have no info right now or seem more like 2019 releases.

EDIT: Forgot about Bayo 3, added it into the confirmed.
This is very interesting. I guess this proves that Pokémon is back with 2 versions each as usual. (Tbh, it feels really weird to think about it a console game getting two different versions, but whatever.) Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate was revealed today for the Switch so it wasn’t much of a surprise. The five placeholder games could be for unconfirmed games for the switch. But other than that I have no clue about what those could be.

Maybe a new star fox game! mother! GOLDEN SUN!!!
 

TheLastJinjo

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Well after gathering some opinions about transformations, I am stumped. I am assuming you people read my thoughts on transformations and the suggestions I brought up in the analysis. While your thoughts did help me seriously consider making ZSS/Sheik separate when thinking about heavily used those characters are in the Smash 4 competitive scene, I feel transformations will be coming back for one veteran. Pokemon Trainer, at least, to fix the easy solutions of getting ridding of stamina/weaknesses so that Charizard does not stick out like a sore thumb.

I would be on the opposite side, but I just have this aching feeling we should not be dismissing transformations entirely. :/

Let me make this easy: transformations are not coming back.
Reviving transformation characters is an awful idea. I could see it done in different ways, like maybe Toon Zelda being able to shed her Phantom Armor and become her spirit form or a tag team character like Donbe & Hikari.

But, having transformation characters makes custom moves needlessly complicated, and it requires time and man hours to be put into extremely low priority characters like Squirtle & Ivysaur.

Having characters separated and given equal attention, moves, and acknowledgement was a HUGE relief. And there's no confusion about how many characters there are.
 
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Mr. Mumbles

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Brawl still had four: Snake, Wario, Pit, Meta Knight. It also only showed four veterans. And... we are going to be hyped anyway, after all this wait, so...
You forgot Zero Suit. And yes despite the fact she was a transformation the marketing was of her as a new character.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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This is very interesting. I guess this proves that Pokémon is back with 2 versions each as usual. (Tbh, it feels really weird to think about it a console game getting two different versions, but whatever.) Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate was revealed today for the Switch so it wasn’t much of a surprise. The five placeholder games could be for unconfirmed games for the switch. But other than that I have no clue about what those could be.

Maybe a new star fox game! mother! GOLDEN SUN!!!
I just wanna make sure you don't misunderstand, those were all guesses from the poster. All 15 are just place holders there's no info yet on what games they are.
 

TheLastJinjo

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I think the limitations of the 3DS changed things for the better honestly. I'm never happy for character cuts, but I was okay with Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Ice Climbers being absent given the newcomers we got in their place. I was also very happy about characters being separate, as well as the various character upgrades.

But, if anyone is curious what characters may change in the Switch version, here is a list of changes that were made to characters as a result of the 3DS' limitations.

  • Ice Climbers were cut because of limitations obviously.
  • Diddy Kong was given less bananas. This might have been because of limitations or balancing.
  • Zelda, Sheik, ZSS, and Charizard were separated as a result of limitations. Good.
  • Meta Knight, Pit, and Charizard's ability to glide was removed. I'm okay with it staying that way. I don't like them having these special abilities.
  • King Dedede's Final Smash was changed because there could not be that many Waddle Dees on screen at once. This may have been the reason for his side special change as well, but as a result, it's much more effective.
  • Ness & Lucas could not have that many meteors on screen for PK Starstorm. So it was changed.
  • Olimar's amount of Pikmin was reduced to three because of limitations. This incidentally made Olimar more balanced.
Who knows if any of these will be changed in the next game, but I wouldn't mind Olimar getting more Pikmin and I wouldn't mind Waddle Dee's being incorporated back into King Dedede's arsenal. And of course, I'd love for Ice Climbers to return.
 

BluePikmin11

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If transformations are planned for certain characters, they will certainly be of utmost priority because of the time it takes to make these kinds of characters.

Though your argument of time feels flat though Jinjo. If Sakurai wants to implement transformations for a few characters, I do not think it will be too complicated to do so. I feel that is seriously underestimating Sakurai and his skills in developing characters and content for each Smash game.
 
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Dragoncharystary

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Here's some more useless info that doesn't really mean anything hints about E3 that can get people more hyped. Apparently, Gamestop got 15 placeholders to reserve in their system today, all for Switch games.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ga...itch-game-skus-in-their-system-e3-hype.41643/

Nintendo Direct this month confirmed! It's almost certain that this is related to E3. Here's what I anticipate these games are.

  1. Smash
  2. Pokemon [Placeholder 1] Version
  3. Pokemon [Placeholder 2] Version
  4. Fire Emblem
  5. Yoshi
  6. Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate
  7. Bayonetta 3
  8. Metroid Prime 4
  9. Pikmin 4
  10. Animal Crossing
  11. [Placeholder]
  12. [Placeholder]
  13. [Placeholder]
  14. [Placeholder]
  15. [Placeholder]

Can't really think of anything else. What do you guys think the spots past Bayonetta 3 could be? I think everything up to that point is confirmed for this year, but AC, MP4, and P4 either have no info right now or seem more like 2019 releases.

EDIT: Forgot about Bayo 3, added it into the confirmed.
One or two of them could very likely belong to whatever Retro is working on, though that doesn't really give much closer as to what the game(s) would actually be.

EDIT: Captain Toad port just came to mind though I'm doubtful that will be shown during the presentation but who knows. Another thing could possible be the Spyro Reignited Trilogy being revealed on the switch.
 
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Mr. Mumbles

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All this talk of transformations...

What if there were a mode where say everyone picks three characters (or maybe two) and there is some button that cycles through them (Something normally reserved for a taunt maybe?)

Sure it wouldn't look nearly as smooth as a real transformation, but pairing up characters in this way I think would be a lot of fun.
 

TheLastJinjo

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It has been a while since I shared a roster, but I have a new prediction roster to share:



Tell me your thoughts. :)
I don't think these are your predictions. I think this is purely wishful. Not trying to offend, but I think the difference should be established.
 
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Fenriraga

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It really is a bit of a blessing to not be chained down by the 3DS even more. Even with the limitations it brought, the game still came out with some of the most varied and unique fighters in the series. Imagine what they can come up with on an even more powerful platform than the Wii U, with nothing bogging certain factors down anymore.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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All this talk of transformations...

What if there were a mode where say everyone picks three characters (or maybe two) and there is some button that cycles through them (Something normally reserved for a taunt maybe?)

Sure it wouldn't look nearly as smooth as a real transformation, but pairing up characters in this way I think would be a lot of fun.
I think I'd rather just have a Group Smash type of thing, where you have 1 specific character per stock. I mean, Smash Wii U implemented it during Smash Tour, and it has technically existed during the first Smash, as they could control which specific character pops out for you to fight next vs many team battles. Though it's mostly random till Melee's Event Mode(plus Brawl and Smash 4's All-Star Mode).
 

BluePikmin11

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I don't think these are your predictions. I think this is purely wishful. Not trying to offend, but I think the difference should be established.
I have explanations for almost every newcomer addition I added here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-for-switch-roster-thread.453473/page-3#post-21971806

This post here are what I have been researching for months since the announcement of Super Smash Bros. Switch, using RTC as one of the methods of figuring out my prediction roster.

I do not know what else to tell you. Though I do not have time to really argue every newcomer addition right now. There is less than a month till the Smash Switch reveal and I rather spend the time doing more research for Smash speculation. When the time of my prediction roster finalization comes, feel free to critique everything in-depth. But not right now.
 
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TheLastJinjo

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It really is a bit of a blessing to not be chained down by the 3DS even more. Even with the limitations it brought, the game still came out with some of the most varied and unique fighters in the series. Imagine what they can come up with on an even more powerful platform than the Wii U, with nothing bogging certain factors down anymore.
Yeah, I mean the newcomers in Smash for 3DS were some of the most unique ones in the series. So I'm definitely excited to see what Sakurai comes up with now that there's nothing holding him back.

I'd love to see Paper Mario this time, with the ability to multiply himself.

I'm glad now that they've held back on including him, because I feel this ability makes him a far more unique fighter than he ever could have been. It's good that Sakurai holds back characters until the perfect moment. If we had gotten Bowser Jr in Brawl, he would not have had his clown car, which makes him one of my favorite newcomers in Smash 4.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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That's an incredibly flimsy argument. I see know reason why Gen couldn't be adapted to Smash just like Ryu was. I wouldn't advocate for adding him, since it'd be a waste of a slot, but if he was modded in or something, I think he'd actually be a pretty good addition.
It wasn't really an argument to say why the character couldn't be in. It was moreso to identify that a transformation archetype in a 2D fighting game that, while it deals with similar lag issues (like on moves I mean) those don't deal with the platforming aspect that makes Smash, Smash.

A transformation moveset in a game like Street Fighter is meant to fulfill the same purpose as the first...to whittle down the health meter of the opponent, regardless of the method.

In Smash, take Zelda/Sheik. Sheik was meant to build up damage with combos, while Zelda was meant to have the power and finish. However, this falls flat because Sheik can do both jobs just as well. Zelda doesn't have that same jive in her moveset.

Now, I suppose that if there was a transformation character where both movesets served the same purpose that could work. But then again, that seems to be redundant to me.

Actually, now that I did some research it seems to me that Gen is more of a stance changer, which isn't really the same thing as a transformation.
 
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CroonerMike

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I have explanations for almost every newcomer addition I added here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-for-switch-roster-thread.453473/page-3#post-21971806

This post here are what I have been researching for months since the announcement of Super Smash Bros. Switch, using RTC as one of the methods of figuring out my prediction roster.

I do not know what else to tell you. Though I do not have time to really argue every newcomer addition right now. There is less than a month till the Smash Switch reveal and I rather spend the time doing more research for Smash speculation. When the time of my prediction roster finalization comes, feel free to critique everything in-depth. But not right now.
Two months of research didn't do ya to well then...
 

MopedOfJustice

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It wasn't really an argument to say why the character couldn't be in. It was moreso to identify that a transformation archetype in a 2D fighting game that, while it deals with similar lag issues (like on moves I mean) those don't deal with the platforming aspect that makes Smash, Smash.

A transformation moveset in a game like Street Fighter is meant to fulfill the same purpose as the first...to whittle down the health meter of the opponent, regardless of the method.

In Smash, take Zelda/Sheik. Sheik was meant to build up damage with combos, while Zelda was meant to have the power and finish. However, this falls flat because Sheik can do both jobs just as well. Zelda doesn't have that same jive in her moveset.

Now, I suppose that if there was a transformation character where both movesets served the same purpose that could work. But then again, that seems to be redundant to me.
That conclusion at the end there seems kind of obvious. Making incomplete characters like Zelda/Sheik is a terrible idea unless it's implemented in a much better way, but having it as a means of addressing different types of situations makes a lot of sense. For example, having a zoning mode and a rushdown mode. Or having a transformation that is much heavier to go to when you're at higher percent. Even a "this one damages, this one finishes" set-up is actually not that bad if they aren't cripplingly over-specialized like Zelda was, especially if the transforming can be done fluidly.
There is nothing about blastlines or platforms that meaningfully changes any of this except by expanding possibilities and simply saying "this is different about that game" without explaining why it would have a necessary impact on the mechanic does nothing.

Edit:
Actually, now that I did some research it seems to me that Gen is more of a stance changer, which isn't really the same thing as a transformation.
Mechanically there's no meaningful difference. You're going from X set of moves/properties to Y set.
 
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kylexv

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No matter how little or how much research and speculation will be done, we will be wrong no matter what.
Tell me somebody expected the final roster of any Smash title before it released. Oh wait, that didn't happen.
 

J0eyboi

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It wasn't really an argument to say why the character couldn't be in. It was moreso to identify that a transformation archetype in a 2D fighting game that, while it deals with similar lag issues (like on moves I mean) those don't deal with the platforming aspect that makes Smash, Smash.

A transformation moveset in a game like Street Fighter is meant to fulfill the same purpose as the first...to whittle down the health meter of the opponent, regardless of the method.

In Smash, take Zelda/Sheik. Sheik was meant to build up damage with combos, while Zelda was meant to have the power and finish. However, this falls flat because Sheik can do both jobs just as well. Zelda doesn't have that same jive in her moveset.

Now, I suppose that if there was a transformation character where both movesets served the same purpose that could work. But then again, that seems to be redundant to me.

Actually, now that I did some research it seems to me that Gen is more of a stance changer, which isn't really the same thing as a transformation.
Icons is still a game that exists, that's still doing a transforming character.
 

BluePikmin11

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Two months of research didn't do ya to well then...
It's going to take more than a simple, vague statement to change my mind Crooner. :-p

No matter how little or how much research and speculation will be done, we will be wrong no matter what.
Tell me somebody expected the final roster of any Smash title before it released. Oh wait, that didn't happen.
I have no doubts that my predictions could be wrong, but I will do the best I can anyway to figure out Sakurai and his possible roster. I likely will not get everything right, but I can at least try to guess more newcomers right than wrong to get some form of bragging rights, haha! :9
 

MysticKnives

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I get why it's a popular request here, but what actually makes Decidueye more likely than other mons from Gen VII?
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I have explanations for almost every newcomer addition I added here:

https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-for-switch-roster-thread.453473/page-3#post-21971806

This post here are what I have been researching for months since the announcement of Super Smash Bros. Switch, using RTC as one of the methods of figuring out my prediction roster.

I do not know what else to tell you. Though I do not have time to really argue every newcomer addition right now. There is less than a month till the Smash Switch reveal and I rather spend the time doing more research for Smash speculation. When the time of my prediction roster finalization comes, feel free to critique everything in-depth. But not right now.
No offense Blue, but RTC is an awful way to gauge the chances of any character.

It's not because of awful ideas, but moreso because the way people describe the "chances" of a character, it doesn't actually make any sense. There are users who claim Daisy...DAISY...has a 60% chance of being added. A 60% chance doesn't make her unlikely. It's makes her more likely than any character rated with a lower likelihood...so that makes her more likely than over 50% of other characters. You and I both know that isn't the case. This type of thing is also extremely biased, as characters are rated lower based on what people want, not actual likelihood.

Also, I saw that you've again said something along the lines of "If there are transformation characters planned". Either you're being incredibly stubborn, or you don't actually want critique of your roster/don't want to change your own ideas. Several users, including myself, have given reasons as to why transformations will probably not happen. I myself have asked for a reason why you think they'll happen, and have not gotten one.

Chances are higher that they aren't going to come back. There is no practical, gameplay related reason to do so. Nadda, zero, zip, zilch. It seems to me that the reason you have them there is that "They COULD bring them back". That's all well and good, but it seems to me that that judgment isn't based on anything tangible.

I'm not saying just to cave to what others are telling you, but if you're not actually looking for input on your roster, don't ask for it.
 
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MrReyes96

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I don’t think transformations should come back except maybe for Pokémon trainer. It fits the best and it was a neat concept for a character. Would be nice to have him back without stamina holding them back.
I also think Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS should be the same slot just to clean up the roster, but still be separate.
 

APC99

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I'd rather we get a tag team mode that functions similarly to transformations, and allows you to switch between two or three other stocks / characters in a match. It'd certainly add a breath of fresh air.

For example, imagine being able to cover multiple bases at once in a given match up. Imagine being able to have the speed of Sonic, the power of Bowser, and Zero Suit's combo game, all accessible with the press of a button. Of course, you lose that stock, you lose that character, but it adds another layer of strategy, choosing between options like having an all-around cast, specializing in a specific archetype, or counter-picking against your opponent's characters to cover your own weaknesses.

Then there's the potential of being able to call in these other stocks as assists like in Marvel vs. Capcom. Hell, maybe you could customize the move they use when the assist is used. Instant access to tools like Zero Suit's paralyzer, Diddy's bananas, Bayonetta's Witch Time, last-minute defensive options like Ryu's Focus Attack, Bowser's Flying Slam, or Fox's Reflector... This could further affect team compositions, choosing assists that line up well with your playstyle or choosing all-powerful assists in hopes your main character is good enough to last the round.

I'm going to be so disappointed when this isn't in Smash Switch, lmao.
 

IsmaR

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I also think Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS should be the same slot just to clean up the roster, but still be separate.
That is the exact opposite of what condensing the roster would achieve.

You're not "adding more room for others" so much as you are making it more pointlessly difficult to select completely different characters/playstyles.
 

MopedOfJustice

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I don’t think transformations should come back except maybe for Pokémon trainer. It fits the best and it was a neat concept for a character. Would be nice to have him back without stamina holding them back.
I also think Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS should be the same slot just to clean up the roster, but still be separate.
The problem with transformations historically is that they are designed to both demand and strongly discourage transforming. If you look at most good stance changing/transforming characters, they can do so fluidly, even to the point of using attacks from both in the same combo.
Scoliosis Jones Scoliosis Jones If you want a character that's a good analogue for Zelda, there's Zeku in SFV. He has a zoning and rushdown form and he has moves that make him quickly transform after while also hitting his opponent.
 

BluePikmin11

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I do not use numbers for my analyses anyway. I gauge based on possibility on being chosen and not numbered probability.

I do post my predictions rosters for input, but yeah. Maybe I should post my roster when I am truly finalized with it. Without posting my analyses here and just having the roster by itself, it will lead to lots of assumptions for feedback. :9
 
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