So if Charizard reverted back to Pokemon Trainer as the only transforming veteran back, would you be ok with it? I heard some people saying that Charizard felt empty without Squirtle and Ivysaur, even with the moveset modifications.
I'd be fine with it, but
only if they got rid of the horrific stamina and type-weakness mechanics, especially the stamina mechanic, that thing was ridiculous, the stamina just got in the way of everyone who wanted to main/solo-main any of the Pokemon locked onto Pokemon Trainer and basically told them "no, you can't do that, no fun allowed".
From the article:
Tangentially, the balancing concern is all about that last part. Every character you add needs to be balanced in relation to every previous character. Adding a new character to 64 means testing 12 matchups. Adding a new character to Smash 4 means testing around 50. Even then, it's a huge simplification, the reality not being any more in favor of it being an easy task.
That's true, but my point was that the balance team in Smash 4 didn't do the best of jobs, yes, it'd be harder to balance the game with more characters, but what I'm saying is that they were
never going to balance it well in the first place, even if we cut down the roster to just 20 or so characters I have no faith that we'd end up getting a game that's balanced. It's definitely harder to make a balanced game with 58 characters than 12, but they're the professionals, and if they seriously created a greater gap between the strongest and weakest character than what existed in their own 19 year old game, then I don't think they really prioritized balance much or were blocked from doing their job properly because Sakurai or someone else wouldn't let them (Sakurai has a veto power over the balance team's decisions, and I have a stinging suspicion that that's a major source of the game's imbalances).
But yeah, you are correct, adding characters really does make the game harder to balance.
They're not bad at balancing, they're bad at balancing Smash. These are some of the same people who balanced Tekken 7, a much more balanced game. The problem is that they aren't Smash players, and they didn't understand the game's systems well enough to do a good job balancing it.
Also, the game's not as badly balanced as it seems. There are 10 to 15 characters who are significantly better than the rest of the cast, and 5 to 10 that are significantly worse, but the balance in the middle's pretty good, which is why there's been so much mobility in the mid tiers throughout the game's lifespan.
I don't think it's necessarily just because they weren't smash players (Although that really could be a major factor, I've actually never considered that before lol), I think a lot of it might have to do with Sakurai, he can veto any change they made and was one of the people in charge of the game's balance, and I doubt a Namco-led team would actually go out of their way to nerf Dedede and never try buffing him. I also find it highly suspicious that right after Sakurai left to take his break is when Sheik got her big 1.1.5 nerfs, it could be a coincidence but who knows. I probably should have made that more clear, now that I'm looking back at my post, it does look like I'm saying that everyone on the balance team is terrible lol. Also, yeah, I agree, the Mid-tier balance IS good, my problem's pretty much exclusively with how massive the gap between the Bottom-tiers and Top-tiers is. It's an improvement over Melee and Brawl but I want more lol.
Also, Smash 64 is balanced in the same way Street Fighter 1 is. Everyone's basically the same.
Fair point.
Take away the bottom tiers and tippity top tiers (Bayo/Cloud) and the game is very balanced.
Its actually hilarious to me because when people were still figuring out Bayo and Cloud everyone was gloating to each other about how amazingly the game is balanced.
Since those two have been figured out I'm hearing "oh the balance team for Smash sucks."
Excuse me but **** that. They did a great job. Cloud and Bayo unfortunately were realised to be very difficult to deal with competitively very late in the games lifespan. As evidence the last patch exclusively touched Bayonetta (and one other thing I think was a glitch or something) due to fan outcry.
Since that last balance patch people further and further optimised Bayonetta and Cloud but the balance team had moved on. THATS why the meta is in its current state.
Honestly, I have had my fair share of salty experiences with Clouds and Bayos but SUCK. IT. UP. There will always, in every fighting game, be a best character. That is unavoidable. You go play any other fighting game and the top tier characters will either piss you off or be your main.
Just because they don't cease all other projects so they can patch Smash 4 indefinately does not mean they did a bad job.
Bayonetta is actually my
favorite match-up to play against, viewing the game as unbalanced doesn't equate to me being a cry-baby or salty. The current state of the Top Tiers wasn't my main problem with the game's balance, I've been saying the balance sucked for a long time and it was before Cloud and Bayonetta were even released lol, I never thought the game was amazingly balanced, throughout the entirety of Smash 4's patches they never even
TRIED buffing my main, why would I think that? Also, I get that it's natural that there must be a best and worst character, but that doesn't mean we can't strive to make the gap between those two smaller than it is.