Smash Tourney Rules? What Should they be

[SireStudmuffin]

Heya Community,

I was wondering since the game is about 1 month away now from release and three months away for EVO Japan 2019 (one of the biggest Smash tourneys next to EVO America). What are the new rules going to be?

This to me is a hard question and I wanted the community's opinion, because everything is on the table for discussion. Some examples are that people complained about rage in the Wii U version, but now you can leave it on or off. Another thing is the smash meter being introduced, do we put it in Smash tournaments to match other fighting games or leave it off to keep Smash the way it is.

Then discussion of stocks, 3-stock has been confirmed by Sakurai. But do we want to change that? Or do we want to go back to the 5-stock system introduced by Melee?

And what of the maps? Everything can be battlefield, omega, or left alone. So are we going to ban maps still and keep it to a select few? Or are we going to allow all of them? To help keep that rock paper scissor effect all games had (besides the N64 version).

I want to hear what the community thinks for all of the rules, and what they should be. Right now is a pivotal point with the series, we can influence now how the game is going to be, if per say there is a chance of a new one coming out. And right now I want to see what Wii U and Melee communities feel, because this game isn't meant for one smash community, it was meant for all of them. Any input is good, and maybe we could come up with some good ideas.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Double Fox, 1v1, 4 Stock, 8:00 Stock Time Limit, Final Destination, No Items.

Easy Picks.

 

[staindgrey]

Three stocks is an absolute must.

I'm so tired of two-stock matches.

 

[Tiltedssb]

3 stocks. 6-7 Minutes. No Items(obviously). Hazards off all stages. We might have to pay closer attention to what stages are legal/neutral/CP. There are so many and we don't need Lylat or Dreamland because Lylat is jank and Dreamland is just battlefield without hazards.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

3 stocks. 6-7 Minutes. No Items(obviously). Hazards off all stages. We might have to pay closer attention to what stages are legal/neutral/CP. There are so many and we don't need Lylat or Dreamland because Lylat is jank and Dreamland is just battlefield without hazards.

Did you know the lack of hazards actually removes the jank from Lylat Cruise?

It can be a perfectly legal stage again with minimal controversy (I hope).

 

[Tiltedssb]

Did you know the lack of hazards actually removes the jank from Lylat Cruise?

It can be a perfectly legal stage again with minimal controversy (I hope).

I thought that at first too, however it still has slants and may ruin ledge play. No one knows all the details. Also since there are so many legal stages, we may not need it to be.

 

[NewGuy79]

I thought that at first too, however it still has slants and may ruin ledge play. No one knows all the details. Also since there are so many legal stages, we may not need it to be.

ima disagree on this point, I don't think the slants ruined ledge play at most they make ledge play differently. now that lylat is being seriously considered players are gona have to relearn a lot of things that some of the more unique stages offer.

I also don't like the idea that we are ever gona have "enough" stages if its legal, players should be able to select it anything less and we would be artificially balancing the game by cutting stages arbitrarily.

 

[Ultrashroomz]

My only concern with competitive play I guess is that I hope stage hazards aren't always turned off.

Certain stages like Fountain of Dreams lose things like platform movement which is what makes it distinct from Battlefield, and I want Fountain to be a legal stage that people play a lot.

 

[Kleric]

I would really love to see all technically legal stages be allowed to be played, though I understand how it could be inefficient to have to constantly go back and change whether or not hazards are on or off. I really hope this can be toggled later on the stage select screen.

I think 3-stocks is good, too. Even with everyone being inexperienced and no characters labbed, it seems like a good pace~

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I thought that at first too, however it still has slants and may ruin ledge play. No one knows all the details. Also since there are so many legal stages, we may not need it to be.

So a slight curve near the ledge is enough to ban it too? You are aware that implies pitching Yoshi's Story as well right?

My only concern with competitive play I guess is that I hope stage hazards aren't always turned off.

Certain stages like Fountain of Dreams lose things like platform movement which is what makes it distinct from Battlefield, and I want Fountain to be a legal stage that people play a lot.

And Smashville too. That platform stays stagnant. What would be nice is a hazard preference option is if you can set which stages have them on and which have them off. That way you can play your favorite iteration of whatever stage you want with minimal hassle. Even when you randomize stage picks, you get exactly what you want from the stage you get.

 

[fewmets]

Please for the love of God, hazards off all stages. Slants, slopes, walkoffs, walls, and even CoL all have play and counterplay that changes up the meta between matches. That's a good thing. It keeps things interesting. The most broken parts of these things like infinite wall climbs and edgelocks have mostly been resolved. I get that it can sometimes lead to stagnant gameplay but then it falls to the community to develop counterplay.

 

[Tiltedssb]

ima disagree on this point, I don't the slants ruined ledge play at most they make ledge play differently. now that lylat is being seriously considered players are gona have to relearn a lot of things that some of the more unique stages offer.

I also don't like the idea that we are ever gona have "enough" stages if its legal, players should be able to select it anything less and we would be artificially balancing the game by cutting stages arbitrarily.

I suppose you have a point about Lylat. However, for number of stages, Dreamland, FOD, and a few other may be straight copies of eachother and should only be battlefield background options which is what they are with hazards off.

 

[Tiltedssb]

So a slight curve near the ledge is enough to ban it too? You are aware that implies pitching Yoshi's Story as well right?

And Smashville too. That platform stays stagnant. What would be nice is a hazard preference option is if you can set which stages have them on and which have them off. That way you can play your favorite iteration of whatever stage you want with minimal hassle. Even when you randomize stage picks, you get exactly what you want from the stage you get.

With no randall moving I'm okay with that

 

[NewGuy79]

I suppose you have a point about Lylat. However, for number of stages, Dreamland, FOD, and a few other may be straight copies of eachother and should only be battlefield background options which is what they are with hazards off.

Well, you are correct but in this case, I would suggest that the redundant stages could be picked interchangeably, for instance, if I want to pick FOD then it would count as me selecting dreamland and battlefield as well. at the same time, my opponent should be able to pick battlefield even if his only reasoning is that he doesn't like Kirby music (impossible but imagine).

 

[Tiltedssb]

Well, you are correct but in this case, I would suggest that the redundant stages could be picked interchangeably, for instance, if I want to pick FOD then it would count as me selecting dreamland and battlefield as well. at the same time, my opponent should be able to pick battlefield even if his only reasoning is that he doesn't like Kirby music (impossible but imagine).

Yes I see that. Would it be better to have hazards able to be turned off and on depending on the stage? Thoughts?

 

[SireStudmuffin]

And what of final smash? Ik Sakurai said it was for more casual play but I would say it is more up to the community to decide if it should be tourney legal.

 

[Mic_128]

I imagine a few events would experiment with the meter, but I could see them being turned off.

 

[Wintermelon43]

No Items, Piranha Plant only, Final Destination,

 

[Oddball]

You pick two characters at the start of the tournament, maybe three. I haven't decided yet. If you lose a match with that character, you can't use that character again. Lose a match with all your characters your out of the tournament.

The stage is randomly selected before the fight starts. All stages are legal. Items are on.
A coin is flipped deciding whether a match will be stock of five or timed.
Four people per match.

Don't know enough about the meter to have an opinion on it yet.

People that demand everything be as precise and as predictable as possible would hate my tournaments.

 

[Tiltedssb]

And what of final smash? Ik Sakurai said it was for more casual play but I would say it is more up to the community to decide if it should be tourney legal.

No they are not. G&W has a grab which kills at every percent.

 

[NewGuy79]

Yes I see that. Would it be better to have hazards able to be turned off and on depending on the stage? Thoughts?

Currently I'm undecided on the hazards on or off debate. it honestly comes down to how much of a hassle it is to change and how much time it takes, both of which we won't know till the game is out. I'm hopeing that the rule set option that we have before stage select will allow for multiple groups of rule sets on the same page, if were lucky 2 rule sets should solve the logistics issue of the hazards toggle.

Concerning the stages themselves, Ideally I would hope that we could switch between the two modes not just to get as much stages as possible but also so that players could select stages that are legal with hazards on or off.

Yoshi's story for example with hazards off would be considered interchangeable with battle field, but its hazards off version could be considered unique (randall, walls).

I'm ssuggesting all of this with the assumption that a new method of selecting stages is developed, as it stands the traditional pick/dan method is too restrictive. Now that we have outgrown the need to use it I feel we should do everything possible to facilitate the content in Ultamite.

 

[Tiltedssb]

Currently I'm undecided on the hazards on or off debate. it honestly comes down to how much of a hassle it is to change and how much time it takes, both of which we won't know till the game is out. I'm hopeing that the rule set option that we have before stage select will allow for multiple groups of rule sets on the same page, if were lucky 2 rule sets should solve the logistics issue of the hazards toggle.

I just find it hard to choose between which ones the hazards should be on/off for. Should we appeal to the melle community and do PS1 with hazards on? Or certain stages like Frigate Opheon or Delphino Plaza with hazards off are good stages. And how can everyone agree on them? I think it will take a full year to decide what is best for the game.

 

[Crystanium]

• 1v1
• No items.
• Final Smash Meter off.
• Hazards off.
• 6 minutes.
• 3 stocks.

Unlike SSB4 where the matches could end quick, but not quick enough, it made sense to have two stocks. I never understood why three stocks was the norm for SSBB, considering how slow it was. Because SSBU looks faster than SSB4, three stocks might become the norm. If for whatever reason most sets don't work within a six minute period, it might be extended to seven. In fact, it appears that the current online option maxes out at seven minutes.

Currently I'm undecided on the hazards on or off debate. it honestly comes down to how much of a hassle it is to change and how much time it takes, both of which we won't know till the game is out. I'm hopeing that the rule set option that we have before stage select will allow for multiple groups of rule sets on the same page, if were lucky 2 rule sets should solve the logistics issue of the hazards toggle.

A feature in SSBU is that when you set up your rules, they will remain that way. I believe you have to save it, but it's not like SSB4 where you would need to set up the stocks and time limit every time you turned on the Wii U.

 

[NewGuy79]

I just find it hard to choose between which ones the hazards should be on/off for. Should we appeal to the melle community and do PS1 with hazards on? Or certain stages like Frigate Opheon or Delphino Plaza with hazards off are good stages. And how can everyone agree on them? I think it will take a full year to decide what is best for the game.

Perhaps select a hazard less version of a stage would also count for selecting the hazard version? Ultimately it comes down to how the TOs handle it, though I'm trying to get my own ideas out there we won't really be able to know until release day.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

2-3 stocks, 6-8 time limit. No items, certain stages legal (TBD), stage hazards on or off, depending on the stage. Final smash meter off, 1v1.