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Smash Switch Speculation: Metroid

Discussion in 'News' started by Thirdkoopa, May 16, 2018.

Lucas "Thirdkoopa" Guimaraes, May 16, 2018 at 6:16 PM
  1. Thirdkoopa

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    Sep 25, 2007
    Somewhere on skype while working on something
    Metroid Spec.jpg

    Note: These articles are more for discussion purposes before E3. They'll be short, sweet, and to the point for a brief recap and looking into possible characters/stages for each series in Smash Bros. These also go by a "Don't expect too much" philosophy. Please remember to be civil in the comments discussion.

    The Metroid franchise is one of Nintendo's more niche franchises. Samus appeared in Smash 64 with one stage, and then in Melee with two. Brawl added Zero Suit Samus, but didn't give her a separate slot, and gave the series three stages. The series had three stages across both versions of Smash 3DS/Wii U and gave Zero Suit Samus her own character slot and a new Final Smash.

    So, what can we expect this time?

    Returning Characters

    There's a 0.1% chance Samus doesn't reappear. About the same for Zero Suit Samus.

    New Characters

    If anything does happen, eyes are probably all on Ridley. While the development team has gone off the record to say that Ridley is very big, Sakurai and co. have been known to make statements and double back on them, and Ridley is an unbelievably requested newcomer for Super Smash Bros 4. The problem with a character like Ridley really comes down to development time - Is he worth the time multiple other characters would be? I'd say yes, but that doesn't mean it will happen. Sylux is another possibility, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

    Returning Stages
    We'll most likely see Brinstar return again. Anything else is up in the air.

    New Stages

    Metroid Prime 4, Metroid: Samus Returns, and Metroid Prime: Federation Force may all serve as potential sources for new stages; particularly Prime 4.

    Author's Note: What are your thoughts on the
    Metroid franchise? What Metroid related content would you like to see in Smash for Switch? Let us know in the comments below!
    PrinceGal3n and The_Bookworm like this.
Director of Content
Lucas "Thirdkoopa" Guimaraes is a Super Smash Bros. fan who currently resides in Washington State. He's also an Indie Game Producer/Director, Collector, Composer, Writer, and plenty of other things; a complete game development jack-of-all-trades. He works on seeing the best way to get the most content for the users and writers. If you want to talk with him more, definitely check out his Twitter

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Discussion in 'News' started by Thirdkoopa, May 16, 2018.

    1. SiO2
      Considering that Metroid Prime 4 comes out this year as well, I would expect Samus's Smash Power Suit design to be very similar to the Metroid Prime 4 design, whatever that may be. I wouldn't be surprised if they borrow elements from Samus Returns melee combat either.
      CCD23 and The_Bookworm like this.
    2. The_Bookworm
      Just recently finished Samus Returns (3ds of course) as my first Metroid game.

      The roster for the Metroid franchise is going to be pretty much the same. Ridley is indeed too big (and shrinking that windspan really doesn't work) and it has moves fitting for a boss character, and I have no idea how much Sylux is favored. I am expecting some changes based upon the newer Metroid games though, since each smash game (aside from the transition from 64 to Melee) has done so.
    3. Venus of the Desert Bloom
      Venus of the Desert Bloom
      Here comes the Bigley arguments.

      Just throwing these up here:

      And those are just mods made by fans. Ridley is doable, folks. Perfectly doable.
    4. The_Bookworm
      Because those are fan mods, who bend the rules of traditional boss characters to make practically anyone fit in the game.

      It is very awkward to see a character like Ridley to be downsized by that much. Before you guys say "but Olimar and Kirby grew in size in Smash Bros", it is because it is far easier to make characters grow in size and make it feel like the original games, for the perspective of the characters in their respective games makes it feel like they are normal sized (aka Smash Bros sized) instead of their actual size.

      Either way, I doubt Sakurai is going to do this maneuver despite all the fanbase on it happening.
      Last edited: May 16, 2018
    5. Mr.ケイ
      I want Samus to be given a new moveset that better reflects her games...which is a run and gun style of combat, yet her Smash moveset has a total of 2 projectiles inputs. I'd like for her to be given basic aerial attacks that function like Mii Gunner's F-air or Villager's slingshot. I'd also like for her melee attacks to be updated to better represent her close combat options seen in Other M and Samus Returns.
      CCD23 likes this.
    6. Phaazoid
      Give me Bigley or give me death
      PrinceGal3n, SchAlternate and CCD23 like this.
    7. Venus of the Desert Bloom
      Venus of the Desert Bloom
      I’m a diehard Metroid fan who understands the concept that “if it doesn’t look good, it shouldn’t be in there” but I fail to see how Ridley wouldn’t look good in Smash. The mods portray that Ridley could be incorporated in different ways while looking good. Those mods are excellent examples of how Ridley could be portrayed even when taking size into account. Of course, they are mods and not the real deal but imagine if Sakurai and his team actually made it work and put in the effort. It would be pretty awesome. If they can’t, it would be great is the team could actually show us why it wouldn’t work instead of trolling us for years straight to it’s misleading captions and pictures and brief statements in interviews.

      There are ways to make a character appear smaller than they actually are through posturing, folding, and movements and I support using this to create the illusion that Ridley is smaller than he is. This could be done through a hunched over or four legged posture which a height equal or slightly taller than Ganondorf and a length several units longer than Charizard. As with the wings, they could partially be folded closer to his back and extended out for attacks. This could also be used to define him as a character since Ridley is an intergalactic criminal who stoops to deceitful tactics to gain victory. A deceitful play style that uses his size to his advantage.
      Last edited: May 17, 2018
    8. BigShad
      Guys guys guys, Ridley is already confirmed! Didn't you see when he completely took over SmashBoards in the very beginning of April?
    9. Skyblade12
      I'm actually still using Ridleyboards. It's a great color scheme and background.

      The big problem with the mods is that they're all based on the Ridley from Smash 4. The same Ridley from Other M. Which is the worst Ridley in the series. Give us the original, not the clone!
    10. Mr. Nintendo
      Mr. Nintendo
      Ridley is among my most wanted characters so please please please please let Master Sakurai change his mind. I need my big purple space dragon.
    11. CCD23
      Setting Ridley aside for a moment...

      I'm in the "Metroid Other M is an abomination" camp, and I'd like to see references to that game removed from Smash Bros., except for maybe a few random trophies and the original Nemesis Ridley music track. (I can take or leave the other two Other M music tracks.) Basically, I really hope that Samus's design gets changed to what it is in Samus Returns or to whatever it will be in Prime 4. I also hope that the Pyrosphere stage gets cut in favor of an SR388 stage (from Samus Returns), or again, an area from Prime 4. But, we'll just have to wait and see how things go.

      As far as Metroid stages, I really wish they would get away from making nearly all of them have acid and lava themes. The only stage that bucked this trend was Frigate Orpheon, which was cut in Smash 4. Even Pyrosphere has somewhat of a "lava" theme going on, and Brinstar Depths from Melee had Kraid standing in something like acid when he originally rose from a bed of spikes in Super Metroid. And while it is true that Samus does have to deal with quite a few high heat / lava areas, as well as a few areas that contain acid / poison-like substances throughout the Metroid series... There are still so many more interesting locations or environments Samus has had to traverse that could potentially be used as a stage. (For example, just off the top of my head: Phendrana Drifts, Torvus Bog, Phazon Mines, any Space Pirate bases or research labs [Tourian perhaps], Planet Phaaze, Maridia, etc...) To be clear, I don't have a problem with Brinstar or Norfair. All I am saying is that Metroid stages need more variety. But yeah, hopefully Pyrosphere gets cut in favor of a non-lava/acid area from Prime 4 or Planet SR388, but we'll see.

      Also, when it comes to music, I have been and still am surprised that the "Lower Norfair" track from Super Metroid has not been remixed or included in Smash Bros...

      This track was remixed for Magmoor Caverns in Metroid Prime...

      ...And for the high heat / lava areas in Samus Returns.

      If this track does end up being included in Smash Bros this time, I hope it is either ripped directly from the Samus Returns remix directly above (it seemed really intense within the context of the game at the time I was playing it), or given similar treatment for a new remix. The Magmoor Caverns remix is not bad but seems a bit subdued for a fighting game.

      And finally... Ridley... There's a lot I could say about Ridley being playable in Smash Bros, but the Internet has collectively beaten him to death more than Samus has, so I don't see a point in participating in an echo chamber. It also doesn't help that we keep getting leaks / rumors from fairly or semi-credible sources that he is a playable character, one of which is very recent at the time of this post. These leaks and/or rumors are all very good and exciting and all, but it could be setting a lot of people up for disappointment. Only time will tell. Personally, my expectations are tempered.

      So, all I will say when it comes to Ridley is that if the Pyrosphere stage does get cut, I would think it would help Ridley's "chances" of being a playable character to an extent*** (and also get rid of an Other M reference and another "lava" stage as a bonus.) I think it helps Ridley's "chances" as it would be kind of strange to have Ridley as both a playable character and a stage hazard.

      ***...But then again, Donkey Kong is both a hazard in 75m and a playable character, and another Villager will occasionally appear in the background of either Smashville or Town and Country. ...However, the DK from the arcade version and the DK from the Country series are not technically canonically the same, just like Other M Ridley and the Ridley from, say, Super Metroid aren't canonically the same either. So while I want Ridley to be playable and Pyrosphere to be cut in favor of a newer Metroid stage, it's very hard to say if these two things affect one another. There's just no way to know what Sakurai and/or the development team are thinking until we know more information about the game, whether that's at E3 in a little under a month or whenever the game is released this year. Again, only time will tell, but here's to hoping for the best!
      Last edited: May 17, 2018
      PrinceGal3n, Lyndis_ and Phaazoid like this.
    12. Thirdkoopa
      Just to discuss briefly about Ridley, and I'm sure I'll touch on this in a more on a "Philosophy of Speculating" article: It's not really him being too big that's a problem - that's an easy way for the developers to shade "too hard to program". The former is an easy thing to get, but the latter is very difficult for people to wrap their heads around, especially for those that have never touched code.

      To summarize, though,

      1. Look at Smash 64, a lot of the characters in there were easy to program. There's no particularly heavy character, or light, for that matter. I guess Donkey Kong? Even then, that's speed changes and his proportions aren't too different. This is the game where there's however the least to go on, but you can bet Luigi stayed in there because he was easier to program.
      2. Look at Melee and how King Dedede was up against seven clones - He's not even a particularly jointy character or anything, so imagine how many clones could be done instead of Ridley (and what most fans would probably choose)
      3. Think about it like this, Mewtwo was one of the last cuts from Brawl because he was a pain in the butt to program. because f l o a t y. This is actually something I predicted way back in Brawl's speculation and people called me crazy for it before Brawl came out. (I wasn't wrong.)
      4. Ice Climbers were literally cut because of hardware/programming. I'm sure they tried to find a way to program them in.

      The thing that's stopping Ridley isn't games being an artform; it's games being software in addition to that. This will potentially stop other characters, too, and absolutely puts a big red flag on certain characters. Any characters under this category are going to really need to be worth their time to program. Unlike, say, Porky, Ridley is actually a character who's highly requested, so at least that may (doubtfully) push him up the priority list on characters to get done.
      CCD23 likes this.
    13. Lyndis_
      I really hope they go back to the Super Metroid / Prime designs for the Metroid characters, or use the Samus Returns one.

      I know it's a really split opinion, but I honestly can't stand the Other M artstyle and I'd like Metroid to have any other design than that in Smash.

      The default Ridley in Legacy XP, and the most recently updated one, is Classic Ridley based on Super Metroid, not Other M.

      Other M Ridley can be used, but it's a "secret" alt where you have to hold L when starting.
      Last edited: May 17, 2018
      CCD23 likes this.
    14. Skyblade12
      That is a thing of beauty.
    15. Gimj
      Yeah Ridley is "doable" just like Godzilla is "doable." I will say that looks "good"(specifically the first video), but only if you trick yourself into forgetting Ridley's true size, or have no idea who Ridley is. The reality is, is that those mods make Ridley WAY too small. He's only like 3 Meta Knights high, and coupled with his skinny frame, it makes him look like a shadow of his true self.

      If Ridley's canon size was the size those mods indicate, it would be make sense. But it's not. Brawl and Smash 4 represented him much bigger already(accurately), and it just looks so awkward having the great big Ridley shrunken to Bowser-size. His gargantuan size is part of why he is so menacing. The same way Godzilla couldn't be a Smash character(even if he was a Nintendo character) is in the same vein of why Ridley can't either.

      Ridley is too big and he will not be in Smash 5 as a playable character because it is impossible to implement him faithfully. You all are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Why do Ridley supporters want a bastardized inaccurate version of Ridley? When will Ridley supporters accept the reality that his size is part of his character? If Ridley wasn't too big, I would want him in. But he is in fact too large.
    16. CCD23
      Never say never. The fact of the matter is that nobody outside of Nintendo or Bandai-Namco knows what Sakurai and/or the development team are thinking or have planned. While Sakurai has addressed why Ridley wasn't included in Smash 4, he has changed his mind on character inclusions before, not to mention he is kind of running out of popular first party Nintendo characters to implement at this point. Also, there is Metroid Prime 4, which, depending on how Nintendo goes about marketing it and Smash Switch, could have an influence on Ridley's inclusion.

      To be clear, while I am a Ridley supporter and think he has a decent chance, I am also aware that is it very likely he will stay as a stage hazard on Pyrosphere. A 50/50 chance of him being playable, I'd say. Like I said in my large post above, only time will tell, so I think it's a bit foolish to presume anything about this game at this point.

      Also, Ridley's size isn't the only aspect of his character. Yes, he is big in a lot of his fights with Samus throughout the Metroid series. However, he is also fast, capable of flight, can use different forms of fire breath, and has fought with his claws, teeth and tail. There's no reason why these aspects can't be implemented into a character that is appropriately sized relative to the other fighters. If done faithfully, I would highly doubt many people would say he's bastardized just because he's been resized. Speaking of "bastardized' characters though... *cough*Ganondorf*cough*
      Last edited: May 18, 2018
      PrinceGal3n and Skyblade12 like this.
    17. Gimj
      Thanks for not having a completely unreasonable emotional response. And I will be the first to say that if Ridley could work, I would love to see him in Smash. He's out due to a technicality, which sucks. And all of my yes in regards to Ganondorf, lol.
      PrinceGal3n likes this.
    18. Skyblade12
      Rewatching that Legacy vid...

      That doesn’t feel bastardized.

      He’s definitely not as large as he’s been in some past games, but he’s still large and imposing enough to feel like a threat and a proper boss. He can still grab Samus and toss her around like a rag doll.

      If we got something like that in the game, I would have no complaints about how Ridley was implemented.
      PrinceGal3n likes this.
    19. SFA|JA3
      As much as everyone is up for Ridley wanting to be added. I might of been the very few that wouldn't mind seeing Dark Samus fleshed out more to be different. The usage of Phazon and creating a hazard that deals damage if someone steps on it does makes for a cool concept. Also the hunters had a diverse moveset. I feel like Sakurai is going to troll us again and say that Ridley is in the game....as a stage hazard or assist trophy.

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