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Smash Ladder - a brawl match finding and ranking system

ColinJF

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
712
Hello. We aren‘t well known on smashboards, but we’re here to introduce something substantial that I think will be really helpful to the community in taking full advantage of Brawl’s online functionality. It’s a match making and rating system called Smash Ladder.

We can fully ensure everyone that this is a highly sophisticated system that has been very well tested. Those of you familiar with Pokemon might know about Shoddy Battle; Amazing Ampharos is a moderator there, and I, Colin, am one of the main programmers. Smash Ladder takes Shoddy Battle’s ladder system and its implementation of the Glicko2 rating system and adapts it to Super Smash Brothers Brawl. The rating system has been a very big success in the Pokemon community, and we’ve carefully adapted it to Smash to make it as functional as possible. Thorough documentation on the particulars can be found on the website.

The short version is that if you want a match, you can go on, hit find match, get a friend code, and be in a match in under 5 minutes with someone who should be roughly on your skill level. You will get a rating and a ranking, and you can compete against all the other players in the system. The rating system is really very good, and it has been proven to really show the skill of the players with experience. As per the rules, we have done our best to be as fair and open as possible while giving deference to the tournament community. The system will be compiling a great number of statistics to help the community decide fairly and objectively which stages need to be banned; initially only the very obviously broken stages will be banned. The specific other rules we are using are:

Time Stock mode: 4 Stock, 15 Minutes
No Items
Pausing Off
All other settings (handicaps, etc.) set to default

These are still open to discussion and input. The very long time limit is intentional since ladder matches aren’t constrained by the organizational needs of tournaments so it is only there to prevent infinite stalls and to make match lengths reasonably predictable for the pairing system. The item rule is definitely open to input from the community and can be changed if the weight of popular opinion from high level players wants to allow some items; we’re just taking a guess at how items will be based on the previous smash games and from the feelings we get from watching videos of brawl. There’s some more discussion of the rules on the actual site, but most people probably get the idea.

Now seems a good time to provide a link to the website. Obviously you can’t play yet since brawl isn’t out yet, but feel free to explore the parameters of the system. All ratings, etc. will be reset when the game actually comes out in North America so don’t worry about having “test matches”.

http://smashladder.com

To start, we are only going to include default stages so everyone can play right away (less the Temple for obvious reasons), but after a week we will most likely move to include the hidden stages as well.

Anyway, we hope you guys like this system and use it extensively; we feel strongly that it’s a very good ladder system that will help the smash community use Brawl’s online capabilities to reach new heights in competitive play and to have as much fun as possible. Thank you for your time reading this, and thank you for any consideration you may give this system. We leave you with a picture of it in action:



~ Colin and Amazing Ampharos
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
already signed up but will my account stay on their until NA release?
 

shortwanabelaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
332
Location
northridge, CA
im not sure if this is part of it already but if not, when the challenger pops up, it shud show which character they use the most.

also, each player doesnt know which chacarcter the other player picked, right? and then that is reported after the match?
 

ColinJF

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
712
The document on the web site that explains the system talks about conflicts.

http://smashladder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=2

Q1. What if people lie about match results?

A1. If the two people involved in a match report different results, the match results will have no impact on ratings, and both players will be gain a point in an invisible statistic called “conflicts”. If this only happens once or twice or is a very small percentage of the total matches a player participates in, it will have little to no impact on them, and over time, conflicts are forgiven. However, if a player accumulates a large number of conflicts, the player is assumed to be a habitual liar about match results, and he will be paired mostly with other players who are also known to lie about match results. This statistic is not public information to prevent players from intentionally sabotaging other players.
To answer a question:

already signed up but will my account stay on their until NA release?
You won't need to register again. We are just clearing ratings and friend codes (since no one from north america has one yet) for the release, not user accounts.
 

jonkil

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
108
Location
MESA TOWN!
this seems like it would work out just fine. but 1 question are we going to download it as a program or is it all online based?

*edit* Never mind my question just found out :p
 

liverymen

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
99
Location
Victoria, B.C.
Hello. We aren‘t well known on smashboards, but we’re here to introduce something substantial that I think will be really helpful to the community in taking full advantage of Brawl’s online functionality. It’s a match making and rating system called Smash Ladder.

http://smashladder.com
That's such a sexy sysyem my pants just took themselves off and the zipper started jacking itsself ._.!
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
2,411
Location
California
I am quite excited that the program has finished and is operational, this has made me want the game even more. Best of luck with the program Colin and AA.
 

Pokkit

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
42
Location
Kansas City, MO
im not sure if this is part of it already but if not, when the challenger pops up, it shud show which character they use the most.

also, each player doesnt know which chacarcter the other player picked, right? and then that is reported after the match?
You will know what character your opponent picks before the match starts.

Also, the ratings system is extremely sophisticated as Colin already said. It's been tested nationally not just over Shoddy Battle, but other things as well. It works extremely well.
 

Xengri

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Messages
404
Location
Orlando, FL
Well, this sounds promising. Looks like you guys put a lot of work into it.

Signed up and will definitely try this out once I get Brawl.
 

Card

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
1,237
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Jeez even the Shoddy guys are in on this? Awesome.

The competitive scene is going to be so enormous! It'll be awesome.



I hope there will eventually be a certain tournament standard we'll all agree on, and possibly even a single resource website. There is at least 5-6 similar Ladders and Rankings systems up...
 

S2

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
Messages
1,503
Location
Socal 805 (aka Hyrule)
You guys might want to consider eliminating the decay system.

I know it might seem like a good way to keep your audience locked in, but if good players feel they need to use your website all the time or there rank will decay, they may simply give up on it all together.

The worst thing that can happen is if you end up with a ladder where the top of the ladder is a mediocre tournament player. That's just a bad setup for people calling the website a joke.

Anyway, good luck. I'll sign up. Its a good idea.
 

Firestorm88

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
1,249
Location
Vancouver, BC
The only problem I see is SWF already has a Matchmaking service set up and they are the big competitive Smash community. Even with Shoddy a lot of people look at it as temporary until Competitor is released so I don't know how well it'd work.

By the screenshot, it looks like this is browser based right? Not in Java? If so, I'm willing to at least try it out.
 

raphtmarqui

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
1,912
I play on Shoddy Battle and their Ladder system works fairly well, so I plan on using it for Brawl also.
 

Crispy4001

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
730
This sounds awesome. Everyone should check this out. Don't forget to check out the rules and statistics page!
 

shortwanabelaker

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
332
Location
northridge, CA
You will know what character your opponent picks before the match starts.

Also, the ratings system is extremely sophisticated as Colin already said. It's been tested nationally not just over Shoddy Battle, but other things as well. It works extremely well.
actually it says that u will not know who the other person is picking, u report it at the end....


if the mods read this, can i request an eventual sticky to all the brawl ranking system sites. i think currently there are 3: smashladder, smashbrawlrankings, and wifiwars with more to come probably
 

LeeHarris

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,946
Location
New Braunfels / San Antonio / Austin, TX
actually it says that u will not know who the other person is picking, u report it at the end....


if the mods read this, can i request an eventual sticky to all the brawl ranking system sites. i think currently there are 3: smashladder, smashbrawlrankings, and wifiwars with more to come probably
Yeah, the other sites are more like ladders/ranking systems.

Wifi Wars' Smash League is a league with ladders as an option. We will have competitive and casual play along with regional tournaments and championships. There will be smexy prizes for our regionals and seasonals as well. We will offer both scheduled matches and free play as well. Our matchmaking system is flash/C server based so it is very fast, powerful, and dynamic. Expect registration to open soon!

We also have a massive friend code database integrated into our site so users can post their FCs for any game. We also have a huge team of professional writers and podcasters that produce amazing quality content.
 

Pokkit

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
42
Location
Kansas City, MO
actually it says that u will not know who the other person is picking, u report it at the end....


if the mods read this, can i request an eventual sticky to all the brawl ranking system sites. i think currently there are 3: smashladder, smashbrawlrankings, and wifiwars with more to come probably
I suppose that yes you officially report what character you were at the end, but that doesn't stop one from choosing the character and selecting it from the drop-down menu before the match starts. Also, the two players can chat in real time and divulge their character selections if they so choose.
 

Pokkit

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Messages
42
Location
Kansas City, MO
We hit 100 members today! woot. We still would like more people to sign up to make this the best it can possibly be!
 

Junglechief

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Messages
22
Someone really needs to create a stickied thread of all the different ranking systems so people can actually see their options. This way threads that might fall on the forums will still have a way to advertise to those that might want this information and not want to sort through the entire forums.
 

timbers92

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
98
all of the different ranking systems should have matches between the top ranked people on the different ranking sites.
 

Opfer

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
56
In addition to providing a rating system and a convenient structure with which to find opponents, Smash Ladder collects statistics about the matches it processes to enable the community to better understand the game. A full character match up chart is automatically generated to show every character’s likelihood of winning against another character. Two versions of this chart are available as well: an unweighted chart just showing the raw winning percentages and a weighted chart that causes matches by higher ranked players to have a bigger impact on the final number. This will doubtlessly assist players in analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of their characters, and it could be used to make a fully objective tier list.

Statistics on stages will also be collected, and these will be used to determine which stages are banned on the Smash Ladder. Initially only stages that are obviously extremely unfair will be banned which means that almost all stages will be allowed. Stages which unfairly benefit certain characters will be banned as the statistics provide evidence of their unfairness, and stages which are especially neutral may be given “double weight” and become twice as likely to be randomly selected as stages.
Simply awesome. This is gonna be good!
 
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