Smash is the hardest game there is?

[x4FoSho4x]

I thought of/made this thread in response to this post. Lets keep this a friendly debate NO FLAMMING what so ever. If you disagree with anything just state why no need to get immature or nasty about things.

Street Fighter is just as complex if not more complex than smash. Where we have short hop they have long jump. JC grabs are equivalent to their kara throws. Wavedash is very similar to their normal dash. "Tilting" for them depends on if they're moving backwards, forwards, standing, crouched, crouched and holding back. We have 5 kinds of aerials, they have 12. They call spacing games footsie. They have parrying to our powershield. Our L-cancel is comparable to their many attack cancels (roughly equivalent to tilts canceling into each other and "b" moves, as well as supers, something smash lacks). Crouch canceling plays the same role as parry. Power missile are roughly equivalent to their EX moves, moves that take out of super bar but are faster/stronger/have more combo value. Honestly, SFIII is really, really complex. They even have matchup charts and a tier system. If you're going to argue SFII is simple, that game was made an eon ago, of course it's going to be simpler than smash

Who would argue that, of course 3s is hard... its not as hard as smash but close IMO, but IMO no game is. Prolly not even Halo 2 or GG or anything.

If im wrong I would like to be convinced that another game is harder than smash with evidence. I play 3s competitively so I know its not harder, still hard though. MvC2 is easier than smash and so are all the other fighters. I have friends that play halo and always make pro bracket FFA/4v4. That maybe the only game that rivals smash in requiring skill. 2d fighters lack a lot of depth no matter how hard the combos are (GG) Smash I dont consider 2-d really they just fight horizontally. lol. And don't get me started on GoW that has to be the easiest game I've ever seen, but its fun. Oh I forgot about WoW that game is crazy the hours people put into it but its pc, doesn't count. lol.

Why is it the hardest game you say?

Smash is so hard not because L-canceling Wding (which is not hard. my mom can wavedash) but because of the extreme intelligence, mindgames, along with the buttons.

To actually be good you have to know exact percents in which all/any of your characters move will be effective/combo and then along with that you have to predict their DI and follow up from their. A lot of people just combo based on low or high percentage thats why their combo fall apart a lot and they aren't that good. Any character can combo 0-death.

Next, predict where/ what your opponent is gonna go/do way before they even think about having the thought to do it. Ever play PC? Hell hit you left on battle field then predict your next 3 techs, rolls, and DIs. M2K is a good example too he studies ever thing about the game and pushes it to its boundaries.

Don't forget mindgames. Fooling your opponent to believing you'll do something else and/or manipulating them to do what you want them to.

Also Tech skill. Silent wolf, Shiz Wiz, you can practice it to no limit and a lot of techniques are very difficult and take a lot of time to master. Me I practice tech skill like mad getting down techniques some people havn't seen before and some that few can do or do better. So add that to what I just explained. Extreme intelligence and extreme button combinations....a game harder? Nahhhhhhh....

Anyone think differently? *Puts on flame retardant suit*

 

[Eggm]

Its very hard, each and every combo you do is slightly different unlike other fighters cause you have to follow/predict AI, it brings comboing to a whole new level. I'm a little upset you didn't mention me in bringing tech skill to the limits, but thats ok. Anyways besides starcraft the true hardest game, this game is probably next on the list. Korean starcraft pros input i think its like 5 actions per second the entire game.. smash can't even compare... But thats another story, back to smash.


I think out of all the other fighters its deftinley the hardest by far. Theres just sooooooooooo much too smash, so much that if you haven't played in tournies for like a year studied the game on smashboards watched numerous videos you can't even see, every time you "level up" in smash you see the game in a whole new way its ********. Smash is so incredibly deep I'm not good enough to write it in words so I'll stop.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Lol Eggm sorry. . But yea your 100% right. I cant believe I have never heard of Korean Starkraft I want to attempt to play it. lol.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Sorry the edit button is not working.

Off topic: Eggm are you coming to w2z today and do you need me to take you if so let me know and what time we will go? Also if I do go I can only take you there and not come back with you because Im only going to pick up the capture card, can't stay.

 

[PB&J]

i agree with u 4fosho..i played almost every game out there and smash is the hardest one to learn and the hardest to keep up with because of all the mindgames

 

[Anther]

Starcraft is ridiculously fun. It has lots of things that you have to pay attention to and think about your opponent, and most of the time you can't even see what they're doing. The Scouting, Unit control, Resource managing, and even tactics/counter tactic game are all quite deep. Even with how dynamic the game can be as a simple unit drop destroying a mineral line can be all it takes to turn the game around.

Learning the different unit control techniques and movement tricks for keeping an eye on the battlefield while at the same time managing your base, spacing your units, and generally keeping track of the pace of the match ... is rough. I mean there's even a whole process to getting your first 4 workers going efficiently >.>.

Starcraft for hardest, simply for how good it made me with a mouse XD. and I was averaging 180-200 actions a minute with minimum key spam x_X.

 

[greenblob]

Smash is certainly less technical than other fighting games. However, DI chasing, percents, and different trajectories of different characters (falling speed/weight) complicate comboing. There aren't very many "set combos" or "guaranteed hits" in Melee, as you're always forced to read your opponent's DI.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Smash is certainly less technical than other fighting games. However, DI chasing, percents, and different trajectories of different characters (falling speed/weight) complicate comboing. There aren't very many "set combos" or "guaranteed hits" in Melee, as you're always forced to read your opponent's DI.

Maybe true but...fighting games like? 3s? MvC2...its a different kind of tech. Its easier to do things but not to do them in succession. (Infinites) Smash has tech like changing direction in your multishines while shling in the opposite way and continuing. (Tech copy righted by me!) illusion stalling w/out jumping and or spiking with it, Swding fluently, shffmc with samus (Phanna Mint things), many technical way to shield pressure with various characters, dcjing and fcing combos (Yoshi Peach Ness M2). I'm just saying things off the top of my head right now there are many better examples. You can be a technical player in this game but in games like MvC2 there aren't any extra things to learn so tech skill for smash is more in depth.

 

[greenblob]

I meant in the metagame. You can do a bunch of crazy frame-perfect things in Melee, but you won't see them very often in tournaments (with Smash DI being a possible exception). Most fighting games, such as VF or SF, have several near-frame-perfect techniques that are consistently pulled off in tournament matches.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

People do do it. I know along with me, eggm, silent wolf, and shiz do it in tournaments and most likely many others. Even people that have average tech skill will l-cancel, jc their shines, and firefox stall, frame perfect.

 

[greenblob]

How frame-perfect are things like waveshining, pillaring, shine combos, pivoting, SHDL, etc. anyway? I always thought that there were around 10 frames of leniency for those techniques.

And aren't things like roll-canceling (SF2) 1-3 frames?

 

[Smo]

It's stupid to say that Smash is the hardest game. Agame is as hard as your opponent. A more basic game like Halo 2 can be just as hard to win because the playing field is always level. It's all down to your opponent's skill, not the difficulty of the game.

 

[x4FoSho4x]

Hard to win doesn't mean its a hard game. And green blob yea your right smash takes less frame perfect techniques but it still has them and things can also be harder without them being frame perfect.

 

[GregUnit]

This thread is stupid. Smash's 1-player is rediculously easy. Multiplayer is as hard as who you're fighting. If you think that Smash takes more thought and reflexes than any other game, I suggest you play an FPS or RTS game.

 

[red stone]

a game is only as hard as your opponent. in that respect. smash is very hard at the top. the fact that melee is extremely popular just adds the multitude of people you must be able to beat.

however, i don't think smash is very hard at all. the fact that many people have multiple mains is a testament to that. it means it doesn't take enough to master a character.

 

[BigRick]

Guilty Gear XX is the hardest fighting game to play by far. No question about it.

I don't really want to point everything out, so I'll just say that it's like combining Smash and MvC2 at the same time.

 

[Domo]

I think there's something to be said for this, SSBM is really all about reading you oppenent so every battle is gonna be different. However, I rarely play other fighters at the level I play melee, or any game at for that matter but I do know that in MvC2 you can get in some real lame/cheap combos if you know how to play right.

 

[BigRick]

I think there's something to be said for this, SSBM is really all about reading you oppenent so every battle is gonna be different. However, I rarely play other fighters at the level I play melee, or any game at for that matter but I do know that in MvC2 you can get in some real lame/cheap combos if you know how to play right.

You still have to read your opponent in order to land it.

 

[greenblob]

I guess the difference is you have to continually read your opponent after each hit.

 

[BigRick]

I guess the difference is you have to continually read your opponent after each hit.

And this is very relative. One of the reasons why the top tiers are top is because they have less ''reading'' to do.

And in GGXX they have also have a system that allows people to escape combos... while in Smash you must read DI, in GG you must read Bursts and Techs (it's possible in that game to tech in the air to get out of hit stun)

 

[pdk]

good lord it's like these threads exist only to get corrected over and over

the combos argument is never a good one period, there's something called bread & butters that applies in smash as much as it does elsewhere (stuff like link's dthrow -> utilt for example); and i know even more "WELL YOU CANT COMBO MUCH AT ALL AT HIGH %, LOL SEE THERE'S NO DIAL-A-COMBOS!!1" posts are looming on the horizon so:

1) no game is all about combos however you slice it, not even games full of canned strings like soul calibur (which is simplistic for the record but that's for another day); you ever wonder why they let you block?
2) other games control using the same high-damage combo over and over too; super meters, gravity scaling, combo breakers/burst/saving shift, guard gauges, corner combos, air recovery, whatever the hell measures you can name (see, there's more ways to do it than DI!)

as for the "WELL THERE'S MINDGAMES IN SSBM LOL" argument... just... god, if you guys are so stuck in the mindset for one game that you can't figure out the mixups in another then why are you talking like you can; i can't even count how many knee-jerk "NO DI = DIAL-A-COMBO FESTIVAL" posts i'm seeing in here

 

[greenblob]

Well, there's the original SSB, in which you could just record a few Falcon, Fox, Jiggs, or Pika matches and call it a combo video. But even with that game you need mindgames to start the combos.

Anyway, yeah, there are other options--Smash just happens to use DI. But DI means branching combos--DI usually doesn't equal finished combo, it generally means you have to space yourself accordingly or use a different attack.

But either way, I guess the general fighting game formula applies: mindgame->combo->combo end->mindgame

 

[Silent Wolf]

Being able to jump twice, the second one being at any point after your first, and having aerial mobility alone make this one of the hardest games. That already gives you so many mindgame possibilities.
Not to mention that no one has taken the game to it's limit because it's basically impossible. Even after being able to take it to the limit, you would need to know how to use all of those things. I'd like to see a game harder.

 

[Rang Flash]

I used to play Street Fighter 3 regularly at college, I even faced a few opponents who have been to tournaments. It really different than smash, but it's still complicated. I'd say they are both about the same when it comes to technicality.

I used to throw around the term "Dial-a-combo" but I've wisened up. Street Fighter III has parries to stop long comboes and since juggling is really hard and irregular, combos are more off the fly then a set pattern.

 

[Perfect Hero]

I thought of/made this thread in response to this post. Lets keep this a friendly debate NO FLAMMING what so ever. If you disagree with anything just state why no need to get immature or nasty about things.

I'll try to resist. . .

Who would argue that, of course 3s is hard... its not as hard as smash but close IMO, but IMO no game is. Prolly not even Halo 2 or GG or anything.

If im wrong I would like to be convinced that another game is harder than smash with evidence. I play 3s competitively so I know its not harder, still hard though.

If you played 3s competitively. . .you'd know 3s was an easy game. So is smash.

MvC2 is easier than smash and so are all the other fighters.

LOL? You are saying MvC2 is easier then Smash? LMAO. The amount of execution in that game OUTSHADOWS smash's dificulty. Imagine practicing hours on end for bnbs and THEN DOING IT IN A MATCH. The amount of options in MvC2>Smash.

I have friends that play halo and always make pro bracket FFA/4v4. That maybe the only game that rivals smash in requiring skill.

. . .Halo doesn't take much skill either, yes it requires some skill but really, it is just an autoaim fest/weapon zoning type game.

~autoaim instantly makes halo an easy game.

2d fighters lack a lot of depth no matter how hard the combos are (GG) Smash I dont consider 2-d really they just fight horizontally. lol.

Lol indeed. Do you know what 2-d games are about by the way? OF COURSE IT IS HORIZONTAL. The game is BASED ON SPACING. DO YOU GET IT SPACING?

And. . .why are you talking about depth like you know what it is? I thought this thread was ABOUT THE HARDEST GAME. Smash is an easy game, deep yes, easy, yes. Nothing in smash is hard. JC shine, shdl are probably the hardest thing Smash has execution wise. And that is NOTHING compared to other FG.

Also. . .depth=amount of viable offensive and defensive options. Smash is deep but NOT deeper then GG.

ANOTHER THING, where are the 3d games in this? You seem to include them 3d shooters though in a FG RELATED TOPIC.

And don't get me started on GoW that has to be the easiest game I've ever seen, but its fun. Oh I forgot about WoW that game is crazy the hours people put into it but its pc, doesn't count. lol.

WTF?

Why is it the hardest game you say?

Smash is so hard not because L-canceling Wding (which is not hard. my mom can wavedash) but because of the extreme intelligence, mindgames, along with the buttons.

What extreme intelligence, mindgame, along with the buttons? WTF does this mean?
Hmnn. LAST I CHECKED, extreme intelligence/mindgame goes to VF. Smash is almost at the bottom of the list for "extreme intelligence".

To actually be good you have to know exact percents in which all/any of your characters move will be effective/combo and then along with that you have to predict their DI and follow up from their.

Oh you mean guessing? Which 3s has alot of by the way.

A lot of people just combo based on low or high percentage thats why their combo fall apart a lot and they aren't that good. Any character can combo 0-death.

Uh GG has a more complex juggling system. Smash has DI while GG has gravity, weight, position, speed, JUST FRAME FKIN TIMING.

Wake me up when Smash has them Just Frame timings please.

Next, predict where/ what your opponent is gonna go/do way before they even think about having the thought to do it. Ever play PC? Hell hit you left on battle field then predict your next 3 techs, rolls, and DIs. M2K is a good example too he studies ever thing about the game and pushes it to its boundaries.

Uh have you played any other 2d fighters at all?
Go see Deshiken. I'M SURE YOU KNOW WHO HE IS.

OR GO SEE MVC2. Same ****. Way harder though.

Don't forget mindgames. Fooling your opponent to believing you'll do something else and/or manipulating them to do what you want them to.

LMAO. You act like mindgames aren't in any other fighting game. In fact VF is like "chess in motion" compared to Smash.

Also Tech skill. Silent wolf, Shiz Wiz, you can practice it to no limit and a lot of techniques are very difficult and take a lot of time to master. Me I practice tech skill like mad getting down techniques some people havn't seen before and some that few can do or do better. So add that to what I just explained. Extreme intelligence and extreme button combinations....a game harder? Nahhhhhhh....

Smash is easy execution wise. Have you played any other FG at all? See Mvc2, VF, GG.

Anyone think differently? *Puts on flame retardant suit*

YES I THINK DIFFERENTLY.

I've got more to reply to btw. The ignorance is astounding.

 

[Perfect Hero]

Its very hard, each and every combo you do is slightly different unlike other fighters cause you have to follow/predict AI, it brings comboing to a whole new level. I'm a little upset you didn't mention me in bringing tech skill to the limits, but thats ok. Anyways besides starcraft the true hardest game, this game is probably next on the list. Korean starcraft pros input i think its like 5 actions per second the entire game.. smash can't even compare... But thats another story, back to smash.


I think out of all the other fighters its deftinley the hardest by far. Theres just sooooooooooo much too smash, so much that if you haven't played in tournies for like a year studied the game on smashboards watched numerous videos you can't even see, every time you "level up" in smash you see the game in a whole new way its ********. Smash is so incredibly deep I'm not good enough to write it in words so I'll stop.

Uh. Is Smash the hardest game because of execution or because of them "intense" mindgames you guys keep spouting.

Smash LOSES IN BOTH CATEGORY.
Execution=GG, VF, Mvc2
Yomi/Mindgames=VF

The comboing to a whole new level thing is bull****. You guys really think DI adds that much depth? Enough to make it THE HARDEST GAME? Hell no.

i agree with u 4fosho..i played almost every game out there and smash is the hardest one to learn and the hardest to keep up with because of all the mindgames

Interesting, because I played a lot of other games, AND ITS ONE OF THE EASIEST GAME I'VE EVER PLAYED.

Smash is certainly less technical than other fighting games. However, DI chasing, percents, and different trajectories of different characters (falling speed/weight) complicate comboing. There aren't very many "set combos" or "guaranteed hits" in Melee, as you're always forced to read your opponent's DI.

Smash is extremelyl similar to other 2d fighters. All those are pretty much in other 2d Fighters. (If we sub Burst with Di)

Maybe true but...fighting games like? 3s? MvC2...its a different kind of tech. Its easier to do things but not to do them in succession. (Infinites) Smash has tech like changing direction in your multishines while shling in the opposite way and continuing. (Tech copy righted by me!) illusion stalling w/out jumping and or spiking with it, Swding fluently, shffmc with samus (Phanna Mint things), many technical way to shield pressure with various characters, dcjing and fcing combos (Yoshi Peach Ness M2). I'm just saying things off the top of my head right now there are many better examples. You can be a technical player in this game but in games like MvC2 there aren't any extra things to learn so tech skill for smash is more in depth.

Wavedashing, triangle jumping is in Mvc2. They also have double jumps I believe and super jumps. All the things you listed by the way is pretty easy. Smash has nothing execution wise that can match up to the "better" fighters VF/GG.

People do do it. I know along with me, eggm, silent wolf, and shiz do it in tournaments and most likely many others. Even people that have average tech skill will l-cancel, jc their shines, and firefox stall, frame perfect.

Uh. Have you TRIED Akira's movelist in VF4? Pretty much HALF OF HIS MOVELIST ALONE HAS TO BE FRAME PERFECT.

How frame-perfect are things like waveshining, pillaring, shine combos, pivoting, SHDL, etc. anyway? I always thought that there were around 10 frames of leniency for those techniques.

And aren't things like roll-canceling (SF2) 1-3 frames?

Pretty much, Roll-canceling is in Cvs2 btw. And FRC/RC is Just frame timing.

however, i don't think smash is very hard at all. the fact that many people have multiple mains is a testament to that. it means it doesn't take enough to master a character.

EXACTLY. Try learning 2 characters in VF.

Guilty Gear XX is the hardest fighting game to play by far. No question about it.

Arguably.

You still have to read your opponent in order to land it.

Yes. Peeps gotta stop thinking their game is the only one where you have to "think".

And this is very relative. One of the reasons why the top tiers are top is because they have less ''reading'' to do.

And in GGXX they have also have a system that allows people to escape combos... while in Smash you must read DI, in GG you must read Bursts and Techs (it's possible in that game to tech in the air to get out of hit stun)

Agreed.

good lord it's like these threads exist only to get corrected over and over

the combos argument is never a good one period, there's something called bread & butters that applies in smash as much as it does elsewhere (stuff like link's dthrow -> utilt for example); and i know even more "WELL YOU CANT COMBO MUCH AT ALL AT HIGH %, LOL SEE THERE'S NO DIAL-A-COMBOS!!1" posts are looming on the horizon so:

1) no game is all about combos however you slice it, not even games full of canned strings like soul calibur (which is simplistic for the record but that's for another day); you ever wonder why they let you block?
2) other games control using the same high-damage combo over and over too; super meters, gravity scaling, combo breakers/burst/saving shift, guard gauges, corner combos, air recovery, whatever the hell measures you can name (see, there's more ways to do it than DI!)

as for the "WELL THERE'S MINDGAMES IN SSBM LOL" argument... just... god, if you guys are so stuck in the mindset for one game that you can't figure out the mixups in another then why are you talking like you can; i can't even count how many knee-jerk "NO DI = DIAL-A-COMBO FESTIVAL" posts i'm seeing in here

QFMFT

Being able to jump twice, the second one being at any point after your first, and having aerial mobility alone make this one of the hardest games. That already gives you so many mindgame possibilities.
Not to mention that no one has taken the game to it's limit because it's basically impossible. Even after being able to take it to the limit, you would need to know how to use all of those things. I'd like to see a game harder.

Lol? You can jump twice in tons of games. Mvc2, GG, and them doujin games have plenty of aerial mobility. Super Jump is not in Smash either. Mindgame possibilities because you can jump twice. . .

I used to throw around the term "Dial-a-combo" but I've wisened up. Street Fighter III has parries to stop long comboes and since juggling is really hard and irregular, combos are more off the fly then a set pattern.

3s isn't really focused on combos though or juggling in fact. It is more Footsie orientated and landing that super.

Hopefully this is not a double post.

 

[Speedsk8er]

a game is only as hard as your opponent. in that respect. smash is very hard at the top. the fact that melee is extremely popular just adds the multitude of people you must be able to beat.

however, i don't think smash is very hard at all. the fact that many people have multiple mains is a testament to that. it means it doesn't take enough to master a character.

Actually, I view that as a testament to the lack of balance. Most multi-maining people only have that secondary in order to help with the characters that their primary has trouble with. Not to mention, just because you multi-main doesn't mean that you've mastered both characters. I'm an IC/GaW/Boozer main. Do you think that my GaW can take 56K/Zorakbane's? Or my IC can take Chu's? Or my bowser can take Gimpy's?

 

[DippnDots]

I think that all games are equally challenging in the advanced level of play (pros, not just average tournament goers), and when you bring things like frame execution into the argument, really, everyone is eventually capable of doing things like that, it just takes more time in some games than others. It all comes down to how hard your opponents are, as stated many times before.

 

[Silent Wolf]

This is a dumb debate because people who are saying this game isn't the hardest, aren't even good at it, lol.
I'm not sure if anyone here's good at the other games mentioned.
just watching pro players play this game doesn't give you an idea of how hard it is.

 

[BigRick]

I think Perfect Hero summed almost everything up.

To Silent Wolf: I know I'm not the best at Melee, but I'm far from being the worst. I play with the best of my area so I have an idea of high level play, I did not just watch videos.

It's much more important if you have tournament experience in all the games mentioned, and I do. (Not all the games, but ST, MvC2, SSBM and GGXX)

As an intermediate player in all these games, the only game where I have been able to master some higher-end techniques was SSBM.

The debate will be dumb if Melee is the only game that you've played, which is not my case.

Btw, I don't hate Melee, it's actually the 2nd best 2d fighter out there IMO.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Smash is a "competitive action game", not a fighter. Stop comparing it to fighters...

>_> <_<

 

[SLAYERCoLdKiLr]

This is a dumb debate because people who are saying this game isn't the hardest, aren't even good at it, lol.
I'm not sure if anyone here's good at the other games mentioned.
just watching pro players play this game doesn't give you an idea of how hard it is.

Yo Silent unless your in the top 3 of smash right now I would shut the **** up

 

[Anther]

I dunno. Between playing competitive Starcraft and Smash, and partially getting into halo, I really think that most video games thus far have been relatively equal on the whole how "hard" they are at high levels. Once you're high level in anything, pulling off the technical aspects doesn't matter much at all.. because your execution is pretty relative to all the other high level players. And each game has their own sorts of things you have to factor in about your opponents (Character, Playstyle, Tactics), and no good competitive game thus far seems to take a Higher level of thinking than any other game.

 

[Ijuka]

Umm. This isn't the hardest game there is. This is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM

I think some magazine is giving away 10k to the player who beats this game without dying. As far as I know, no one has succeeded. Watch the video to see why.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I dunno. Between playing competitive Starcraft and Smash, and partially getting into halo, I really think that most video games thus far have been relatively equal on the whole how "hard" they are at high levels. Once you're high level in anything, pulling off the technical aspects doesn't matter much at all.. because your execution is pretty relative to all the other high level players. And each game has their own sorts of things you have to factor in about your opponents (Character, Playstyle, Tactics), and no good competitive game thus far seems to take a Higher level of thinking than any other game.

This post is made of win. And cheese.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Yo Silent unless your in the top 3 of smash right now I would shut the **** up

Lolz, that you. You wouldn't need to be top 3, just good.
and to bigrick, you get a better idea when you are that person, not just playing them, but w/e.

 

[Perfect Hero]

Smash is a great game no doubt. Not the hardest though.

 

[BrTarolg]

personally i dont think smash is as hard as the other fighters like SF3.

MVC2 is a bit different from all the other fighters because a lot of it works on getting the opponent into the combo - once youve got them locked down thats it (there are times where even if you let go of the block button you keep blocking because you are so locked down with attacks)

but the only real evidence that i can give is the fact that people are capabkle of playing more than one character at a top level which is a testament to how much easier it is to get into competetive smash than most other fighters.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Umm. This isn't the hardest game there is. This is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nscP9QpXoFM

I think some magazine is giving away 10k to the player who beats this game without dying. As far as I know, no one has succeeded. Watch the video to see why.

Mushihime FTW. I love shmups.

 

[Luigi Ka-master]

Smash is a great game no doubt. Not the hardest though.

Well you sure make it seem like it's garbage.


Anyways, I'd like to add a few thoughts on some of the things you said earlier...

Lol? You can jump twice in tons of games. Mvc2, GG, and them doujin games have plenty of aerial mobility. Super Jump is not in Smash either. Mindgame possibilities because you can jump twice. . .

Oh give me a break. Silent wolf is arguing that smash has amazing aerial mobility, not that aerial mobility exists in smash. Jigglypuff anyone? Ya know, the character that's based entirely on aerial mobility and spacing, because the producers created such a concise aerial-movement system which she's able to take advantage of?

Smash LOSES IN BOTH CATEGORY.
Execution=GG, VF, Mvc2
Yomi/Mindgames=VF

Lol, wow. I like how you're actually arguing that one game has more mindgames than another. Props on the chess analogy though, it really convinced me.

Mindgames are entirely person-dependant on any game that has more than the most basic structure of play. There's no limit to how many mindgames a game can have, due to the retardedly-broad definition of mindgames, so please don't try argue that one game has more than the other.



Anyways, that's all I've got for now.

Yo Silent unless your in the top 3 of smash right now I would shut the **** up

How about something a little more reasonable, like top 10 in US? Who are you?

I'm pretty sure this debate is dumb, because in order to actually debate anything with a real knowledge of the game and how it's played competetively, you would have to have a group of people that are all at like pro level, for every competetive fighting game out there. Which, from the posts I've seen in here, is obviously not the case.