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Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Louie G.

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There is significance throughout, and then there is significance in the moment. Which one is really carrying Ninja Gaiden right now?
Well considering Hayabusa was pretty much the most commonly speculated character for the entirety of Ultimate's DLC cycle, prior to knowledge of any of these remakes or new titles, I would say the former. The lack of new Ninja Gaiden games was rarely seen as a severe hindrance to his chances, and I do not believe he comes up more now than he did before. He just isn't a very good example of recency bias in action. What carried him and continues to carry him is that Koei Tecmo is probably the most avid third party partner absent from the roster, and he's the most viable choice. The new games just further support that argument.

But again, I think you're convinced I'm insisting something I'm not here, as if I think Ryu Hayabusa and Officer Howard have anything in common. First party characters and third party characters are typically chosen for different reasons. I have no interest in comparing these two drastically different characters. What I was trying to say is that defending one character doesn't mean tearing down the others, and I thought that was an inaccurate dig at those series. Not an endorsement of Darth's similarly ignorant statement about a game a lot of other people probably like.
 

Gengar84

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Overall, Astral Chain is most definitely less significant than Ninja Gaiden. I thought it was a ton of fun but it’s still a relatively niche game that released 6 years ago while Ninja Gaiden has had multiple games dating back to the NES with more on the way. The one huge advantage Astral Chain has is that it’s owned by Nintendo. Nintendo has definitely prioritized their own games when it comes to Smash (which makes sense) so we tend to see many more niche first party games represented.

That said, I think both Hayabusa and Officer Howard are fairly likely to make it in. Ninja Gaiden is a classic series that is getting another revival with multiple games planned and Astral Chain is one of Nintendo’s only brand new IPs of the Switch era. If there are plans for a sequel to Astral Chain any time soon, we might even see a second character as DLC. I’d love to see Jena Anderson down the line as well.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Nintendo has definitely prioritized their own games when it comes to Smash (which makes sense) so we tend to see many more niche first party games represented.
Of course they would do that.

It's cheaper not to ask a billion companies for guests and when you do, it's probably a better deal to offer DLC money compared to base game royalties.
 
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Gengar84

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Of course they would do that.

It's cheaper not to ask a billion companies for guests and when you do, it's probably a better deal to offer DLC money compared to base game royalties.
Exactly. That’s why I said “which makes sense”. They tend to prioritize first party characters for the base game and third party characters for DLC.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Exactly. That’s why I said “which makes sense”. They tend to prioritize first party characters for the base game and third party characters for DLC.
Not gonna stop people from expecting like 15 third-party newcomers for the next game's base roster when ideally, it'll be 2, maybe 3 at best.
 
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Gengar84

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Not gonna stop people from expecting like 15 third-party newcomers for the next game's base roster when ideally, it'll be 2, maybe 3 at best.
I totally agree. I think my fan roster had three third party characters in the base game but two makes sense too. My roster was a bit of a hybrid of a prediction and a personal dream roster. I tried to include both generally popular choices and my own favorites. My “predictions” for the base game third party characters were Shadow the Hedgehog, Zero, and Ryu Hayabusa.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I totally agree. I think my fan roster had three third party characters in the base game but two makes sense too.
It historically has been two every time until Ultimate's DLC, which is why I think two makes the most sense.

Snake and Sonic in Brawl, Mega Man and Pac-Man in Smash 4, Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta in Smash 4's DLC, Ken and the Belmonts in Ultimate (Simon and Richter definitely feel like a 2-in-1 package to me)

Smash 4's DLC was the first to break that pattern but Ultimate crushed it. And given DLC money tends to be more profitable for third-parties, I doubt base game rosters going forward will go as all-in on guests as the Fighter Passes did. Committing to third-parties will likely stay as a DLC-only trend.
 
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YeppersPeppers

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It historically has been two every time until Ultimate's DLC, which is why I think two makes the most sense.

Snake and Sonic in Brawl, Mega Man and Pac-Man in Smash 4, Ryu and Bayonetta in Smash 4's DLC, Ken and the Belmonts in Ultimate (Simon and Richter definitely feel like a 2-in-1 package to me)

Ultimate's DLC was the first to break that pattern, and given DLC money tends to be more profitable for third-parties, I doubt base games going forward will go as all-in on guests as the Fighter Passes did. Committing to third-parties will likely stay as a DLC-only trend.
Missed Cloud in Smash 4's DLC lineup there.
 

Megadoomer

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On the subject of ballots, who are everyone’s top three most wanted Smash characters? Even if they’re unlikely, what’s the best argument you can come up with to support each of their inclusion?
Mine have pretty much stayed the same since Ultimate's DLC, in no particular order:

Smash Bros top 3.png


With Geno, he has a distinctive design and abilities that help him to stand out from the rest of the Mario cast, which seemingly helped to fuel his popularity in Smash speculation for roughly two decades. The recent Super Mario RPG remake shows that Square-Enix is aware that people want to see more of that game, but as the original characters like Mallow and Geno are owned by Square-Enix (which seems odd to me - it would be like if Capcom fully owned Vaati from the Legend of Zelda), it means that the only possibility for them to make appearances again seems to be in remakes/sequels of Mario RPG or games like Smash Bros. where Nintendo and Square-Enix are already working together. (plus, a good chunk of it is sentiment on my part - Mario RPG was one of the first games that I played, and the game that got me into RPGs in particular)

Dante was part of a group of Mii costumes where Sakurai mentioned that they were characters that a lot of people wanted to see in Smash, so he's got that going for him. His franchise, Devil May Cry, is one of the pioneers of 3D action games, with each game (aside from DMC2, but we don't talk about that one) giving Dante a ton of material to work with, and while Capcom has a ton of characters to work with if they decided to add another one, Dante seems like one of the more prominent ones. (it seems like it's either him or Monster Hunter, though Dante has a better-defined moveset, appearance, etc.) Capcom's definitely pushed Devil May Cry harder in recent years, to the point where it showed up on Nintendo consoles for the first time this generation (and got what I'd argue would be the definitive version of DMC3) and a long-awaited fifth game. Plus it means that we'd get a crossover between Devil May Cry and Bayonetta in an official capacity outside of a limited-time event in a Shin Megami Tensei mobile game.

DOOM basically defined the first person shooter - it might not have been the first, but its popularity was massive, and it's still doing quite well for itself to this day. (the fact that Doom Eternal and Animal Crossing: New Horizons came out on the same day became a giant meme, and Doom: The Dark Ages comes out in a few days) Nintendo and Microsoft got along surprisingly well when it came to Smash Ultimate's DLC, and while there's plenty of competition in that regard for future games (Master Chief, Crash Bandicoot, etc.), I'd hope that Doomguy would get in at some point; the historical impact of the series alone seems to justify it, and Doom's gameplay seems like it would be interesting to translate into Smash. (since, in the Doom games, you have to stay mobile as much as possible or you'll quickly die)
 

Gengar84

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If Dynasty Warriors Origins releases on Switch 2, I wonder if we could see Lu Bu as a DLC character once we already have Hayabusa. While Dynasty Warriors proper is more strongly associated with Sony than Nintendo, the broader Warriors series does have very strong Nintendo ties. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Imprisonment will be the fifth Warriors game based on a Nintendo property. Dynasty Warriors is the mainline series that kicked everything off and Lu Bu is the most iconic character in the series. I feel like he actually has a stronger case than a lot of people think. He’s also give us our first dedicated pole arm user with a really flashy and powerful moveset.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Mine have pretty much stayed the same since Ultimate's DLC, in no particular order:
This is such a funny lineup. Two realistic dudes and a cartoony doll in the middle being like "yeah I'm cool too". lol

What makes it even better is that all three rely on guns so there's even synergy between them.
 

DarthEnderX

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Not gonna stop people from expecting like 15 third-party newcomers for the next game's base roster when ideally, it'll be 2, maybe 3 at best.
My expectation is for the trend Smash has been setting for 3P characters since Brawl to continue.

Brawl - 12% of the newcomers were 3P.
Smash 4 - 25% of the newcomers were 3P.
Ultimate - 50% of the newcomers were 3P.

In Smash 6, I expect more than 50% of the newcomers to be 3P. Whether they show up in the base game, or DLC, doesn't really matter to me. Though, obviously, it makes more sense to put 1P characters in the base game.
 

Gengar84

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This is such a funny lineup. Two realistic dudes and a cartoony doll in the middle being like "yeah I'm cool too". lol

What makes it even better is that all three rely on guns so there's even synergy between them.
Lol, yeah I was thinking the same thing. It’s funny seeing all three together like that.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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If Dynasty Warriors Origins releases on Switch 2, I wonder if we could see Lu Bu as a DKC character once we already have Hayabusa. While Dynasty Warriors proper is more strongly associated with Sony than Nintendo, the broader Warriors series does have very strong Nintendo ties. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Imprisonment will be the fifth Warriors game based on a Nintendo property. Dynasty Warriors is the mainline series that kicked everything off and Lu Bu is the most iconic character in the series. I feel like he actually has a stronger case than a lot of people think. He’s also give us our first dedicated pole arm user with a really flashy and powerful moveset.
Having deeper Sony associations didn't stop Snake, Cloud, Joker, Sephiroth or Sora. Arguably Ryu and Ken as well since they were added to Smash at a time when Sony was funding Street Fighter V.

If Nintendo wants us to purse Lu Bu against the best of wisdoms, they won't really care about connections with their consoles. Sakurai might, however, and since he's calling all the shots on base rosters and has the power to veto Nintendo's DLC picks, I think he'd be the biggest obstacle to a Warriors rep.
 
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Gengar84

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Having deeper Sony associations didn't stop Snake, Cloud, Joker, Sephiroth or Sora. Arguably Ryu as well since he was added to Smash at a time when Sony was funding Street Fighter V.

If Nintendo wants us to purse Lu Bu against the best of wisdoms, they won't really care about connections with their consoles. Sakurai might, however, and since he's calling all the shots on base rosters and has the power to veto Nintendo's DLC picks, I think he'd be the biggest obstacle to a Warriors rep.
True. Dynasty Warriors actually does get some games ported to the Switch much later so it’s not like the mainline games have no presence. Samurai Warriors has released multiple games on Nintendo consoles and many of their licensed spinoff games are on Nintendo as well. I feel like Lu Bu actually has a solid chance and he’s being a bit overlooked.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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True. Dynasty Warriors actually does get some games ported to the Switch much later so it’s not like the mainline games have no presence. Samurai Warriors has released multiple games on Nintendo consoles and many of their licensed spinoff games are on Nintendo as well. I feel like Lu Bu actually has a solid chance and he’s being a bit overlooked.
One of those games also had Takamaru as a guest, if I recall.

And yeah, it's only natural for Lu Bu to be overlooked when another Koei Tecmo character, Ryu Hayabusa, isn't just talked about more but also one of if not the most talked about third-party character in general around these parts.

I imagine other KT characters would finally get a chance to shine in speculation once we get him.
 

Gengar84

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One of those games also had Takamaru as a guest, if I recall.

And yeah, it's only natural for Lu Bu to be overlooked when another Koei Tecmo character, Ryu Hayabusa, isn't just talked about more but also one of if not the most talked about third-party character in general around these parts.

I imagine other KT characters would finally get a chance to shine in speculation once we get him.
Takamaru was a guest character in Samurai Warriors 3 on the Wii if I recall correctly so, yeah, that’s an even stronger Nintendo connection dating before the first Hyrule Warriors. As for Hayabusa, yeah, I agree. I think it’s totally within the realm of possibility we get Hayabusa in the base game and Lu Bu as DLC down the line. Other companies have gotten multiple characters in a single entry before.
 
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Thegameandwatch

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Not gonna stop people from expecting like 15 third-party newcomers for the next game's base roster when ideally, it'll be 2, maybe 3 at best.
It’s shown with base Ultimate where Simon was the only original new 3rd party character with Ken and Richter being echoes.

But if you wanna be technical, we already have a Koei Tecmo character.

Their name is Byleth :4pacman:
I think it’s the only mainline game where Intelligent Systems weren’t the main developer since there were more people from Koei Tecmo working on it.

Also the game reuses some assets from older Warriors games like how Hyrule Castle is apparently unused as a map name.
 
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Gengar84

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So the way I envision Lu Bu working is that he’d have standard directional Smash specials when used not mid combo. His jab would be similar to Kazuya’s where he performs a 6-7 hit combo. He’s have the ability to use a combo ender at any point using a special. Depending on what stage you use the special, he performs a different ender. I think that’s a cool way to incorporate the Musou combat system while still allowing him to function as a normal Smash character in all other areas. The tricky part is balancing him properly so he’s not completely busted.
 

Perkilator

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If I were Nintendo I'd just keep porting Ultimate adding new characters, modes, features and such.

We'll never get anything like Ultimate again.
If anything, I feel like never getting anything like Ultimate again should be even more of a reason to start from scratch with a brand new game that renews everything we know about Smash Bros. as a whole, especially since Ultimate will still be playable on Switch 2.
 

Will

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Hey [insert company here] we did really well in Super Smash Bros Ultimate, how about we talk about licensing to bring [insert character here] back for the next installment?

Pffft, what, the best-selling fighting game of all time? Pass. I literally hate money and free advertising, so good luck disappointing your fans!

I mean, I just don’t get why you would even decline Everyone is Here after doing it once. Jacking up the licensing costs to milk that sweet sweet Smash Cash Cow? :iwatadirect:
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I was on board for a Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate but then I realized that it would probably mean Other M Samus for another however many years and I'm just so tired...
The idea of keeping Samus's Metroid: Other M design but changing Donkey Kong's to match his Switch 2 redesign being a realistic possibility in this case is really funny.
 

Gengar84

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The idea of keeping Samus's Metroid: Other M design but changing Donkey Kong's to match his Switch 2 redesign being a realistic possibility in this case is really funny.
I really don’t want that. I dislike DK’s new design and prefer most Samus designs over her Other M design. I think my favorites are Super Metroid and Samus Returns but Dread and Prime 4 are cool too.
 

Will

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The idea of keeping Samus's Metroid: Other M design but changing Donkey Kong's to match his Switch 2 redesign being a realistic possibility in this case is really funny.
It’s definitely going to change, but to which new design? We have two of them now.

1747144268341.png
1747144303359.png
 

Perkilator

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Thegameandwatch

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I was on board for a Switch 2 Edition of Ultimate but then I realized that it would probably mean Other M Samus for another however many years and I'm just so tired...
They should have changed it in Ultimate to begin with since there was probably enough time between Samus Returns and Ultimate unless deadlines were strict.

It’s not like characters where they have to plan in advance.
It’s definitely going to change, but to which new design? We have two of them now.
Maybe both with one being default and the other being the alt.
 

Thegameandwatch

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I think it would be really cool if Samus had a completely separate model for each outfit representing her appearances in games throughout the whole series. I think that would be cool for the Zelda cast as well.
I agree although probably should be one or two incarnation for Link for example since he would basically have mostly green alts if it remains at 8.

I assume Toon Link if he returns would have alts based on his alternate designs such as his Outset Island design, train uniform, the Minish Cap or the multiple costumes from Tri Force Heroes.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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It’s definitely going to change, but to which new design? We have two of them now.
It's only realistic in the event of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate: Nintendo Switch 2 Edition. For a new game, I'm betting on them picking her design in Metroid Prime 4.

I think it would be really cool if Samus had a completely separate model for each outfit representing her appearances in games throughout the whole series.
I'd probably do something like:
  1. Varia Suit (Metroid Prime 4: Beyond)
  2. Dread Suit
  3. Gravity Suit (Super Metroid)
  4. Fusion Suit
  5. Dark Suit
  6. Light Suit
  7. PED Suit
  8. Prime 4 Suit (Red)
The Metroid Suit I'd like to be used in the Final Smash, so it's not an alt, but if that weren't the case, replacing the PED Suit with it would be an easy choice since it doesn't have any color pallet overlap with anything else like the PED Suit does.
 

Gengar84

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I agree although probably should be one or two incarnation for Link for example since he would basically have mostly green alts if it remains at 8.

I assume Toon Link if he returns would have alts based on his alternate designs such as his Outset Island design, train uniform, the Minish Cap or the multiple costumes from Tri Force Heroes.
What I think would be the optimal solution is to give us a color editor so we could make whatever palate swaps we wanted. That way, we could make every tunic of every version of Link among other things. The editor would likely be restricted for certain companies that want to keep their characters as they are, but you’d likely still be able to edit a few smaller details with them,
 
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Thegameandwatch

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The editor would likely be restricted for certain companies that want to keep their characters as they are, but you’d likely still be able to edit a few smaller details with them,
Especially Pokémon because TPC hate exact Shiny alts unless it’s a special event or rare chance. An example is how Pokken and Unite don’t have Shiny alts.

Incineroar is the closest but the white is a darker shade (shown in the icon).
 

Gengar84

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I mean some of us are open to new things
I’m definitely open to new things as long as those new things aren’t just downgrades from what we had before. I don’t need literally every character back but I’d like to keep some of my favorites and get enough exciting newcomers. Thankfully, with the FFVII Remake games coming to Switch 2, I think both Cloud and Sephiroth are pretty safe now.
 
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