Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Thegameandwatch]

They could also use a generic class/character which shows up in VII and its spin-offs too if they wanted to represent something from a different game "technically"(like how Black Mages don't often change their core appearance much).

I guess just Zack and Vincent if it’s strictly FF7 Spinoffs. At least the latter would be unique since he isn’t a sword user.

A generic class would still represent a non-FF7 game since FF7 doesn’t have that system.

 

[fogbadge]

We need Gex in the game.

so long as we get Danny John Jules back to voice him

 

[Ivander]

They could also use a generic class/character which shows up in VII and its spin-offs too if they wanted to represent something from a different game "technically"(like how Black Mages don't often change their core appearance much).

It just baffles me that we got a class from Dragon Quest as a Mii Costume, but neither a Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage, Onion Knight or whatnot. I mean, look:

 

[DemifiendEnjoyer]

With Final Fantasy, it's licensed as FFVII mainly. So it's much harder to do more with the cast since they're... getting it cheaper with that combo. That said, things could change. They could also use a generic class/character which shows up in VII and its spin-offs too if they wanted to represent something from a different game "technically"(like how Black Mages don't often change their core appearance much).

The Chocobo Mii hat is listed as just Final Fantasy, Not Final Fantasy VII, And it's based on a design that never never appeared in anything FF7 related.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

The Chocobo Mii hat is listed as just Final Fantasy, Not Final Fantasy VII, And it's based on a design that never never appeared in anything FF7 related.

Ifrit in the Midgar stage is from FF8 rather then the FF7 version.

 

[Stratos]

I was thinking something about the 10th generation of Pokémon, if I remember the rumors correctly it is codenamed "Gaia" and since there is perhaps a possibility that the new region is actually based in Greece and to be precise in the Cyclades, maybe the two versions of the 10th generation will be called "Gaia" and "Uranus" or "Earth" and "Sky"?

 

[Ivander]

I was thinking something about the 10th generation of Pokémon, if I remember the rumors correctly it is codenamed "Gaia" and since there is perhaps a possibility that the new region is actually based in Greece and to be precise in the Cyclades, maybe the two versions of the 10th generation will be called "Gaia" and "Uranus" or "Earth" and "Sky"?

It will be Pokemon Darkness and Pokemon Time, with Pokemon Sky being the 3rd game.......

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The Chocobo Mii hat is listed as just Final Fantasy, Not Final Fantasy VII, And it's based on a design that never never appeared in anything FF7 related.

Ifrit in the Midgar stage is from FF8 rather then the FF7 version.

Copyright for the Chocobo Hat still lists FFVII, so it brings credence to the idea that anything that appears in FFVII is fair game in the copyright umbrella if you get the rights for it even if the design isn't from it.

So spin-off Chocobo and FFVIII Ifrit?
Another character that doesn't appear in VII at all like Kefka or Clive?
Separate negotiations would have to be made for their games' copyrights.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pretty much ninja'd. XD

Anyway, I would like more branching out, yes.

 

[Arcanir]

I'm still curious why Ifrit was the only summon to not use his VII design. I'm not complaining as VIII is one of my favorite versions of him, but it is notable when he (and the Spinoff Chocobo if including the costumes) is the only non-VII designs, particularly since they use Ifrit's VII remake design for the spirit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm still curious why Ifrit was the only summon to not use his VII design. I'm not complaining as VIII is one of my favorite versions of him, but it is notable when he (and the Spinoff Chocobo if including the costumes) is the only non-VII designs, particularly since they use Ifrit's VII remake design for the spirit.

Well, redoing the model for the entire stage would require a lot of extra work.

As for why using it in the first place? That's hard to say. I guess it was liked more?

VS

...Yeah, it's easy to see why perhaps. VIII's is just far nicer-looking in general. Doesn't explain any other summons, though.

 

[SharkLord]

I’m going to say Spring-Summer 2026 for 3D Mario.

Don’t forget, Pokémon Gen 10 is likely scheduled for November 2026. I think Nintendo will want to give its heavy hitters breathing room.

At this point, though, I may as well give out my predictions for Nintendo’s next few years of releases.

Spoiler: Nintendo Releases Predictions

View attachment 402582
This list won’t be accurate, and is more so just an analysis of existing trends, since Nintendo loves a few curveballs.

We know the Kirby and the Forgotten Land SW2 Edition drops at the end of August, so if Metroid Prime 4 is an August release I'm sure we'd have known already. I also doubt we'll be waiting until 2027 for another Fire Emblem, given the usual release cycles; I'm sure we'll at least see a new Fire Emblem before the start of next year, even if it's not released this year.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I’ve finished up my K.K. Slider moveset, been workshopping it for quite some time, I had to scrap a lot of moves, due to them not working with his proportions, mainly his tiny legs. I provided lots of images that I hope you find humorous.

Spoiler

K.K. Slider’s are somewhere between Villager’s and Isabelle’s.

His main method of attacking is pulling out various musical instruments and playing them, obliviously hurting opponents in the process. Some of these instruments create sound waves that deal damage. I wanted to avoid having him swing instruments around like weapons.

Jab: Holds tambourine slightly in front of him, and smacks it

Forward Tilt: Leans mic stand forward, and sings a note into the mic

Up Tilt: Extends one arm up holding marching band baton

Down Tilt: Steps on a drum pedal in front of him, but without the drum (I guess he’s testing it out to make sure it works), allowing the mallet to hit opponents

Forward Smash: Holds a gong in front of him, and hits it with a mallet, causing a shockwave in front of him

Up Smash: Faces the screen, blows into sousaphone creating a large sound wave above him

Down Smash: Summons two drums down in front of him, and uses drumsticks to bang on each drum creating sound waves on each side

Dash Attack: Shakes maracas forward one at a time, three times

Neutral Air: Faces screen and clashes cymbals creating a sound wave

Forward Air: Lifts up and plays mellophone, creating a sound wave

Back Air: Stretches accordion out to hit behind him

Up Air: Plays saxophone, tilts body back and raises saxophone above dealing damage

Down Air: Plays trombone, extending slide down

Ledge Attack: Basically the same as Mr. Game & Watch’s, swings a handbell forward

Get Up Attack: Twirls marching baton around

K.K. Slider’s throws have him perform various dance moves, treating his opponent like a dance partner, mainly inspired by ballet dance lifts.

Pummel: Spins opponent in place so fast it hurts them

Forward Throw: Lifts opponent, thrusting forward and accidentally lets go

Back Throw: Lifts opponent, thrusting behind and accidentally lets go

Up Throw: Lifts opponent above head and accidentally lets go

Down Throw: Dips opponent and accidentally drops them

K.K. Slider’s special moves are used to essentially create a music concert. I apologize if balancing of these moves is not the most adequate.

Neutral Special: Sits down on a stool, faces the screen, pulls out his guitar, starts playing it, and singing (this move can’t be used in the air). In this state you are able to change the song he plays with the analog stick. He will stay seated until you press a button.

Each song creates music notes about the size of his body that slowly fly across the stage on both sides after a set period of time, and with different effects depending on the song. Timer resets when song is changed.

Right plays K.K. Crusin’ which creates music notes every 1.5 seconds, the only song that deals damage, this is also the song that plays by default.

Left plays K.K. Dirge which creates music notes every 2 seconds and causes paralysis

Up Plays Hypno K.K. which creates music notes every 2 seconds and causes reversed controls

Down plays K.K. Lullaby which creates music notes every 4 seconds and causes sleep

Side Special: Sets down a standing spotlight in the background that can be destroyed by opponents (think Steve’s crafting table). It shines light diagonally down, stunning anyone who is standing in the light the moment it’s turned on.

Being in the spotlight will increase the power and knock back of all of your moves. The status effects of your neutral special will also last slightly longer.

Down Special: Places down a speaker in the background, can place one at a time, can be destroyed by opponents. If you play a song with your neutral special a sound wave comes out of the speaker at the same time as the music notes, they share the same effects as the music notes.

Up Special: Very similar to Isabelle’s up special, but the balloons are shaped like music notes, and instead of the wires connecting to a plank of wood, creating a swing set, the wires connect to a harness that K.K. Slider is suddenly wearing.

This is meant to be a nod the flying effects typically used in musical theatre, and sometimes music concerts. K.K. Slider whistles a song while flying (doesn’t do anything, just there for show)

Final Smash: DJ K.K.: Summons and plays turntables, creating shockwaves that get bigger over time, similar to DK’s old Final Smash

Taunts
1: Tunes Guitar
2. Smiles and waves to the crowd
3. Howls

The Victory animations are slight variations of him sitting on his stool playing his guitar. The song he plays is his own rendition of the Animal Crossing victory theme.

I appreciate anyone who checked it out. I’m happy to hear feedback if you have any.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You'll get the Bomberman girl from that one Gooner arcade (Not gonna post an image of her, for the sake of not ruining your childhoods by accident)
The original Bomberman would still be an Assist Trophy btw.

Act Zero was right there.

 

[Ivander]

The Alear and Bomberman talks continue to make me hope we get alot more unique alternate costumes for characters next game.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It just baffles me that we got a class from Dragon Quest as a Mii Costume, but neither a Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage, Onion Knight or whatnot.

Step 1: Add Mii Mages
Step 2: Add FF Black Mage and White Mage from Mario Hoops as Mii Mage costumes.
Step 3: Add FF Ninja from Mario Hoops as Mii Swordfighter costume.

...Yeah, it's easy to see why perhaps. VIII's is just far nicer-looking in general. Doesn't explain any other summons, though.

Lion-face Ifrit is much more popular than devil-face Ifrit.

 

[Noipoi]

I was thinking something about the 10th generation of Pokémon, if I remember the rumors correctly it is codenamed "Gaia" and since there is perhaps a possibility that the new region is actually based in Greece and to be precise in the Cyclades, maybe the two versions of the 10th generation will be called "Gaia" and "Uranus" or "Earth" and "Sky"?

In the teraleak the gen 10 games are occasionally referred to as “K & N”. We don’t know what that means, but some people think it could refer to the Japanese words Kaze and Nami, or Wind and Wave.

Thus, the Gen 10 games would be Pokemon Wind and Wave. But this all just theorizing, we’ll likely have to wait until next Pokemon Day to find out.

Spoiler: Slight Spoilers

If the games are really about sailing the ocean and traversing an archipelago, the names would be very fitting.

 

[Gengar84]

Step 1: Add Mii Mages
Step 2: Add FF Black Mage and White Mage from Mario Hoops as Mii Mage costumes.
Step 3: Add FF Ninja from Mario Hoops as Mii Swordfighter costume.

View attachment 402624

Lion-face Ifrit is much more popular than devil-face Ifrit.

Final Fantasy VIII has some of my favorite summon designs in the whole series. I love VIII’s Ifrit, Diablos, Odin, and Bahamut among others. I think FFX has some awesome summon designs too. X has my second favorite Ifrit after VIII.

 

[Guynamednelson]

In the teraleak the gen 10 games are occasionally referred to as “K & N”. We don’t know what that means

You should know what "Pokemon N" refers to

 

[DarthEnderX]

Final Fantasy VIII has some of my favorite summon designs in the whole series. I love VIII’s Ifrit, Diablos, Odin, and Bahamut among others. I think FFX has some awesome summon designs too. X has my second favorite Ifrit after VIII.

X has my favorite Bahamut.

 

[Gengar84]

X has my favorite Bahamut.

Me too I think. It’s definitely the most unique looking. VIII’s is a close second though.

I know it’s a long shot but I’d actually love a playable summon in Smash. Ifrit, Shiva, Bahamut, or Diablos would be awesome. Yojimbo would be amazing too but that’s even more of a long shot.

On an unrelated note, do you think we’ll ever get a third party tag/transformation character? There’s a few characters that I’d love to see as a tag duo but I’m not sure Nintendo would want to dedicate so much to a third party. Though I suppose it’s probably less moves overall than just Kazuya and way less complex than Steve so I suppose anything is possible. A few options I think could be fun are Alphen/Shionne (Tales), Jinx/Vi (League of Legends), Yasuo/Ahri (League of Legends), X/Zero (Mega Man). A lot of those could also work as solo fighters just fine but they could bring something fun as a duo, particularly the Tales and LoL characters duo to the strong team mechanics in their games.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I know it’s a long shot but I’d actually love a playable summon in Smash. Ifrit, Shiva, Bahamut, or Diablos would be awesome. Yojimbo would be amazing too but that’s even more of a long shot.

Gilgamesh. There is no other candidate.

do you think we’ll ever get a third party tag/transformation character?

I hope not.

 

[Gengar84]

Gilgamesh. There is no other candidate.

I hope not.

I would argue Ifrit actually has the highest chance of all the summons thanks to Final Fantasy XVI.

I do understand your complaints about not wanting to dedicate so much effort to a single character slot but I do think existing characters like Steve and Kazuya are actually both more complex and likely took more resources to develop than the tag duos we’ve seen so far. Personally I don’t think a duo of two more straightforward characters is any worse than a single complex character for those reasons.

 

[Idon]

If you want a playable Bahamut, I think there is literally no better option than Stranger of Paradise's Bahamut.

He's not the size of a small country for one which is a big plus.
Additionally, he's extremely fast, agile, has a ton of bespoke fighting game moves like uppercuts, sweeps, tackles, overheads and a goddamn command grab.
Far and away the most "active" of the bahamuts in battle and not just there to be MEGAFLARE_CUTSCENE.mp4

oh yeah, and it also helps he's literally playable lol

Spoiler

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I know it’s a long shot but I’d actually love a playable summon in Smash. Ifrit, Shiva, Bahamut, or Diablos would be awesome. Yojimbo would be amazing too but that’s even more of a long shot.

Either Gilgamesh, Bahamut, or a joke option of Chocobo & Moogle to have some of the series mascots.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Though I suppose it’s probably less moves overall than just Kazuya

It'd actually be more moves than Kazuya overall. Kazuya may have a lot, but he doesn't have 2X as many moves as your average Smash fighter does.

 

[Gengar84]

It'd actually be more moves than Kazuya overall. Kazuya may have a lot, but he doesn't have 2X as many moves as your average Smash fighter does.

Are you sure? I’d be curious to actually see a count. It definitely feels like he does but I’ve never actually counted.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Are you sure? I’d be curious to actually see a count. It definitely feels like he does but I’ve never actually counted.

Number of moves for a typical Smash character: 24 (jab, 3 tilts, dash attack, 5 aerials, 3 smashes, grab, pummel, 4 throws, 4 specials, 1 Final Smash)
Number of moves in Kazuya's moveset: 37, so a little more than 50% of the average moveset

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Technically not the first time, as the Genesis version of VF2 has been rereleased on Nintendo consoles a few times (Virtual Console, NSO), as well probably included in one of the many Genesis collection games, but...yeah, this is the first time an actual proper VF title has been on a Nintendo console.

I was gonna say the Virtua fighter games are in Yakuza arcades but i'm actually not sure if it's in Kiwami 1.

I know Virtua fighter 2 and 5 are in multiple different entries in the series though, which will eventually hit Nintendo if Kiwami 1 and Zero are anything to go by.

 

[Ivander]

On an unrelated note, do you think we’ll ever get a third party tag/transformation character? There’s a few characters that I’d love to see as a tag duo but I’m not sure Nintendo would want to dedicate so much to a third party. Though I suppose it’s probably less moves overall than just Kazuya and way less complex than Steve so I suppose anything is possible. A few options I think could be fun are Alphen/Shionne (Tales), Jinx/Vi (League of Legends), Yasuo/Ahri (League of Legends), X/Zero (Mega Man). A lot of those could also work as solo fighters just fine but they could bring something fun as a duo, particularly the Tales and LoL characters duo to the strong team mechanics in their games.

I think if we get a tag-team/transformation character, it'll be regarding characters where not only does it make sense, but where part of their deal is them working together. Like the latter 3 you mention would certainly be separate characters(don't know much about Alphen & Shionne and how their gameplay works) respectively. To me, the reason characters would be a duo was if that in-game, they actually functioned as a character together. Kinda like how Rex was supposed to the main fighter while Pyra and Mythra were his back-ups/power givers before it changed to simply Pyra & Mythra being a tag-team character.

This might cause a bit of discourse for using these characters as an example, but in Fire Emblem Engage, this was Eirika and Ephraim's schtick. While Eirika was the main focus in terms of character and weapons, part of the whole deal with Eirika with Ephraim was that not only did Eirika's Ring give abilities from Ephraim, but Ephraim would join Eirika for emblem attacks.
So in Engage's case, Eirika and Ephraim could be a tag-team character, like a mix between Zelda/Sheik and the Ice Climbers, where you can switch between Eirika and Ephraim for which character you control and each one has completely different normal attacks & throws for different approaches, like Eirika would be the swift, but light and their attack range would be much shorter while Ephraim would be the slower and slightly heavier, but stronger and their attack range would be larger.
Meanwhile, aside from the down-B special, which is them Switching, their Specials are them working together for their Special attacks, similar to the Ice Climbers when both are in play. The neutral Special attack would be the same regardless of which character is out, but the other two specials, their Side & Up-Specials, are dependant on which one is out as it determines who is dealing the finishing strike. And while their Down-B is them switching, something that can be added for versatility is the Dual Guard/Guard Stance from Fire Emblem Awakening/Fates and I think Three Houses had something similar. But basically, if Eirika and Ephraim try to switch when an opponent attacks them, the other will rush, defend them and switch with them, taking away all damage and potentially leaving the opponent open for a counter attack depending on what the opponent attacked with. If grabbed when trying to switch(not when they are grabbed already, as that'd be a bit overpowered), they instead rush and break the grip the opponent has.

Anyway, this is what I using for an example of how a duo/transformation character should be in particular. If we get a duo/transformation character, it shouldn't be for the sake of being a notable duo, we should get it for characters where in a game they were in, they actually functioned as a duo in terms of gameplay, abilities, skills and whatnot. Besides Eirika and Ephraim, Chrom and Robin also functioned similarly in Engage where they worked together as a duo, but Smash Ultimate happened before Engage.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And while their Down-B is them switching, something that can be added for versatility is the Dual Guard/Guard Stance from Fire Emblem Awakening/Fates and I think Three Houses had something similar. But basically, if Eirika and Ephraim try to switch when an opponent attacks them, the other will rush, defend them and switch with them, taking away all damage and potentially leaving the opponent open for a counter attack depending on what the opponent attacked with. If grabbed when trying to switch(not when they are grabbed already, as that'd be a bit overpowered), they instead rush and break the grip the opponent has.

Engage itself also has something like this with Chain Guard, though they're only usable by Qi Adepts (basically any brawling class except Alear's)... but it's a cool enough idea visually that creative liberties can be taken.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, this long after Ring Fit Adventure's release, do we still see it as a shoe in? It's still the most successful new IP Nintendo has made since Ultimate launched. But 2019 is a long time ago.

 

[Otoad64]

So, this long after Ring Fit Adventure's release, do we still see it as a shoe in? It's still the most successful new IP Nintendo has made since Ultimate launched. But 2019 is a long time ago.

I think it just depends on if the series has a future in general. Same with if Min Min stays or not, I’d say.

 

[Ivander]

So, this long after Ring Fit Adventure's release, do we still see it as a shoe in? It's still the most successful new IP Nintendo has made since Ultimate launched. But 2019 is a long time ago.

I really don't want to believe that being late for Smash Ultimate and that not having the next Smash for a while will take away chances from those around then. Especially considering the Switch's backwards compatibility and the Switch 2 upgrades/updates for Switch 1 games.
Like I get why people are nervous and I can't deny I am too considering there are games that were late for Smash Ultimate that I really want to see in Smash Bros and it would really suck if they were ignored because "they were too late". I'm just hoping that because of the Switch 2 being backwards compatible and that there are Switch 1 games that will get Switch 2 updates(paid or free) that those games still have a chance for the next Smash because those games are still selling and people can still get and play those games.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So, this long after Ring Fit Adventure's release, do we still see it as a shoe in? It's still the most successful new IP Nintendo has made since Ultimate launched. But 2019 is a long time ago.

Nintendo will want new IPs in the roster of newcomers and Ring Fit was too big of a hit to really ignore.

Perhaps not Inkling levels of guarantee, but I would be shocked if the Trainee missed base game.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

So, this long after Ring Fit Adventure's release, do we still see it as a shoe in? It's still the most successful new IP Nintendo has made since Ultimate launched. But 2019 is a long time ago.

Not guaranteed but they are too big to ignore. Not the first time that there was a gap like how there are several early Wii characters in Smash 4 and Olimar being added to Brawl despite Pikmin 1 releasing around the same time as Melee.

Pokemon and Fire Emblem are the only ones who have issues with time like how Lucario onwards, Corrin and Byleth were chosen before their games released.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Especially considering the Switch's backwards compatibility and the Switch 2 upgrades/updates for Switch 1 games.

Ironically, Ring Fit is one of the few games where backwards compatibility is iffy.

If you have some OG Joy-Cons, the game is still fully playable. If you sold them or never had any, well tough luck, buddy.

 

[Ivander]

Ironically, Ring Fit is one of the few games where backwards compatibility is iffy.

If you have some OG Joy-Cons, the game is still fully playable. If you sold them or never had any, well tough luck, buddy.

Yeah, it's not a problem if you're upgrading from Switch 1 to Switch 2, but it is if you never got a Switch before a Switch 2.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Yeah, it's not a problem if you're upgrading from Switch 1 to Switch 2, but it is if you never got a Switch before a Switch 2.

Or sold your Switch 1 to afford the Switch 2 (assuming you never got extra Joy-Cons)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So, this long after Ring Fit Adventure's release, do we still see it as a shoe in? It's still the most successful new IP Nintendo has made since Ultimate launched. But 2019 is a long time ago.

I still fully anticipate a Ring Fit sequel since it sold 15 million units and it still pops up occasionally like getting put on Alarmo, and considering how much of a success it was I'd be shocked if it didn't get a character when also considering new IP from the Switch are surprisingly sparse, taking into account its lifespan and continual success. If it doesn't though I still fully anticipate a stage and an Assist Trophy bare minimum lol