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Smash 4 Speculation Chart [WE UPDATE NOW]

D

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I don't expect Yoshimitsu, sadly I think he has not many chances to get in. I want him though.
Then what do you call this?
Prepare to add a Yoshimitsu slot in that row and see Heihachi & Co. turn grey.
Sounds like expectation from me.

The example of Lucario isn't that strong. If he's the talking one from the movie (never heard the one in the game can't talk), why the Trainer is not Ash? Lucario is a race, not a character. Saying he's the one of the movie is... odd.
It is stronger than you realize, as Pokemon are unable to speak human language in the games save for few rare exceptions (such as Giovanni's Murkrow), and the movie Lucario is also the only Lucario in the entire anime to talk.
As for why the Trainer is not Ash, are you seriously asking me that? You're seriously asking why the original protagonist of the series and reoccuring NPC is the Trainer instead of one of his counterparts in other media?

And anyway any videogame character would make more sense than Ralph. Even Kratos.
*Looks at the arcade cabinets for Fix-It Felix Jr.* *Sees Ralph fit in with other gaming characters*
*Tries to imagine Kratos in Smash* *Shudders*
Opinions, brah.

I'm not attacking your chart anyway dude, I couldn't care less, I actually find it funny. But seriously expecting Ralph?
When you say that I should "seriously remove" anyone, that's attacking the chart because you don't agree with it. And it's far from not caring. If you REALLY couldn't care less, you would have said nothing at all.
Also, never said I expected him. Just that he's a possibility. And nothing more until later. Just like Bayonetta and Layton.
 

Vintage Creep

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Well I guess you were offended by my comments, too bad.
My comment about Yoshimitsu was a little bit sarcastic. Anyway, if Heihachi and Co. are in this chart? Why not him? Why expecting them is normal and expecting him is absurd? Lol.
The pokémon games as I recall never talk about this matter, but that's not the point. Lucario is a videogame character, the fact that he appeared in an anime doesn't change anything. He is a videogame character strongly related to Nintendo, that's why he's in the game. Comparing this to Ralph is simply stupid, I'm sorry.
I don't know what NPC means so, well.
For the Kratos comment, you clearly misinterpreted it. I said that he has more sense since he is a videogame character. Ralph is a movie character. Buzz Lightyear fits really well with Nintendo characters. Where is his spot in the chart?
What do you mean by "agreeing" with a chart? Nobody can agree with that chart, there's nothing to agree with. I don't care about the chart, I care about expressing my opinion.
 

Opossum

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I think you missed the part where, you know, Ralph's game came before his movie. Y'know, since you mentioned Buzz Lightyear as a "counterpoint."
 
D

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There are trophies of things never appeared in any videogame before Smash Bros... We're talking playable characters. Do you consider Lucario an anime character, like Goku and Naruto?
Except that "never appeared in any video game before" DOESN'T apply to Wheeler.
He was in two games in the F-Zero series that were based around the alternate canon the anime introduced. They were also the latest two games in the series.

Aside from that, if being non-game based was a big problem, quite A LOT of things in Smash already would be heavily altered or not used. I mean, DK's Giant Punch is taken from the DKC CARTOON of all things.
The fact that Wheeler is Nintendo owned and has been within major games in a Nintendo series means he is perfectly elligible, regardless of his origin. R.O.B. did not debut in a video game. R.O.B. is in Brawl.

EDIT: No, if you would have read, you would have seen this:
"there is the fact that the Fix-It Felix Jr. arcade game he came from was defictionalized months prior to the movie's premerie".

There were actual Fix-It Felix Jr. arcade cabinets made that could be played months before the movie's debut.
Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkx-TctQPvY
 

Vintage Creep

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Except that "never appeared in any video game before" DOESN'T apply to Wheeler.
He was in two games in the F-Zero series that were based around the alternate canon the anime introduced. They were also the latest two games in the series.

Aside from that, if being non-game based was a big problem, quite A LOT of things in Smash already would be heavily altered or not used. I mean, DK's Giant Punch is taken from the DKC CARTOON of all things.
The fact that Wheeler is Nintendo owned and has been within major games in a Nintendo series means he is perfectly elligible, regardless of his origin. R.O.B. did not debut in a video game. R.O.B. is in Brawl.
Well I'll take it back for Wheeler. I mean I'm sure he's not going to be in the game, but he would. Ralph is still out of the question though, but we'll see. I seriously hope he doesn't show up.

Opossum are you saying that Ralph was created as a videogame and then turn out to be a movie?
 

Vintage Creep

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By how are you talking I came to the conclusion that Ralph is a videogame character and Lucario is an anime character anyway, lol.
 

Opossum

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Well I'll take it back for Wheeler. I mean I'm sure he's not going to be in the game, but he would. Ralph is still out of the question though, but we'll see. I seriously hope he doesn't show up.

Opossum are you saying that Ralph was created as a videogame and then turn out to be a movie?
In other words, the video game that came out to promote the movie came out before the actual movie, technically making Ralph completely eligible. Likely? No. Possible? Yessiree.
 

Vintage Creep

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In other words, the video game that came out to promote the movie came out before the actual movie, technically making Ralph completely eligible. Likely? No. Possible? Yessiree.
That's really stretching the rules Sakurai told a while ago. But anyway it doesn't matter, rules or no rules Sakurai has still good sense. I mean, almost.
 

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As I said, Ralph's situation is a tough one to pin down, but as it stands, he's eligible by technicallity. *shrugs*


...I gotta eventually see Wreck-it Ralph. Been putting it off.
 
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Seems I missed a reply. Here you go:

Well I guess you were offended by my comments, too bad.
My comment about Yoshimitsu was a little bit sarcastic. Anyway, if Heihachi and Co. are in this chart? Why not him? Why expecting them is normal and expecting him is absurd? Lol.
Because Heihachi is the face of the series, Kazuya is the original protagonist, then main antagonist for quite a while, and Jin has been the protagonist the most times.
What has Yoshimitsu done in comparison? Oh, he's been in every game as a non-important playable character. That's really it.
The pokémon games as I recall never talk about this matter, but that's not the point. Lucario is a videogame character, the fact that he appeared in an anime doesn't change anything. He is a videogame character strongly related to Nintendo, that's why he's in the game. Comparing this to Ralph is simply stupid, I'm sorry.
Dude, you paying attention? I was comparing him to Wheeler. You know, the other Nintendo video game character that debuted in an anime like Lucario. Ralph had nothing to do with this point.
I don't know what NPC means so, well.
Non-Playable Character.
Red is the only Trainer to appear in games where he is not the protagonist. He serves as a strong opponent in each appearance.

For the Kratos comment, you clearly misinterpreted it. I said that he has more sense since he is a videogame character. Ralph is a movie character. Buzz Lightyear fits really well with Nintendo characters. Where is his spot in the chart?
Show me Buzz's game in the arcade and him standing with a bunch of video game characters like Bowser and Sonic the Hedgehog. Oh wait, you can't. Neither has happened.
What do you mean by "agreeing" with a chart? Nobody can agree with that chart, there's nothing to agree with. I don't care about the chart, I care about expressing my opinion.
English isn't your first language, is it? I don't mean offense by that, just let me explain what I meant:
When I say you "don't agree with it", it means you don't like what is on it. Because you don't like what is on it, you say it should be removed for whatever reason.
I have stated right out front in the first post that characters will not be removed by request/demand. Only added if there is good reason to (like some have provided like with Lip).
 

Vintage Creep

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As I said, Ralph's situation is a tough one to pin down, but as it stands, he's eligible by technicallity. *shrugs*


...I gotta eventually see Wreck-it Ralph. Been putting it off.
It's a very good movie btw.

The technicality works if you take Sakurai's words like gospel. He said that the character has to be born in a videogame, but that doesn't mean his first appearance must have been a videogame. Lucario is the example, he appeared in an anime first but obviously he was created for the Pokémon franchise. Ralph's game was simple merchandise, in order to get people's eyes on the movie. Wheeler's situation is kinda weird but it's irrelevant if you ask me, he hasn't nearly enough following to have a chance. R.O.B. is an exception since he wasn't actually a videogame character, but he existed with the only purpose of videogaming. He is part of Nintendo's history, for real. He was an odd and controversial choice but I like him a lot so, who cares.

It really comes to common sense when you state that Ralph is not a videogame character, but Lucario is, so that's why the first will never be in Smash Bros. and the second has been. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I highly doubt it.
 
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a. Sakurai didn't say "born in a video game". He flat out said they must have debuted in a video game. Which Lucario and Wheeler haven't while Ralph technically has, ironically enough.

b. The statement was part of criteria for 3rd Parties along with "they must have been on a Nintendo system". This means that non 3rd Parties like Lucario, Wheeler and R.O.B. are not affected, while ones like Naruto/Goku (who break the debut in game criteria) and Kratos (who has NOT been on a Nintendo system due to being one of Sony's IPs) are.
 

Vintage Creep

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Seems I missed a reply. Here you go:


Because Heihachi is the face of the series, Kazuya is the original protagonist, then main antagonist for quite a while, and Jin has been the protagonist the most times.
What has Yoshimitsu done in comparison? Oh, he's been in every game as a non-important playable character. That's really it.

Dude, you paying attention? I was comparing him to Wheeler. You know, the other Nintendo video game character that debuted in an anime like Lucario. Ralph had nothing to do with this point.

Non-Playable Character.
Red is the only Trainer to appear in games where he is not the protagonist. He serves as a strong opponent in each appearance.


Show me Buzz's game in the arcade and him standing with a bunch of video game characters like Bowser and Sonic the Hedgehog. Oh wait, you can't. Neither has happened.

English isn't your first language, is it? I don't mean offense by that, just let me explain what I meant:
When I say you "don't agree with it", it means you don't like what is on it. Because you don't like what is on it, you say it should be removed for whatever reason.
I have stated right out front in the first post that characters will not be removed by request/demand. Only added if there is good reason to (like some have provided like with Lip).
Lol why so serious?

1. I say Yoshimitsu because he's not only a Tekken character, but also a Soul character. Simple as that, two franchises at once. And by my personal experience I found that he's much more recognized than Jin and Kazuya. Maybe not more than Heihachi, but he's really famous and loved. And also he's cool, the most important thing.

2. Wheeler is in a weird situation. He was created for an anime, and then was added in the videogame. Lucario was not created for the anime. That's what I'm talking about. He has zero chance again though.

3. Don't really know what we're talking about here. Anyway the Trainer is much better than Ash, if you ask me. But who cares.

4. Seriously? What does it even mean? Show me a picture of Kratos standing beside Bowser. You can't, so you can't really say it would suck right? C'mon, use your imagination.
And that's not the point, AGAIN. I said that Buzz makes zero sense because he's a movie character, like Ralph. The fact that they fit well with the rest isn't important.

5. No I'm italian, and the problem is that you take your chart way too seriously. I didn't demanded some characters to be removed, I was stating an opinion. Maybe in an harsh way, who cares. Oh right, you. Well sorry, OK? You can add whoever you want to that chart really, I swear I won't ask you to take them out... God.
 

Vintage Creep

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a. Sakurai didn't say "born in a video game". He flat out said they must have debuted in a video game. Which Lucario and Wheeler haven't while Ralph technically has, ironically enough.

b. The statement was part of criteria for 3rd Parties along with "they must have been on a Nintendo system". This means that non 3rd Parties like Lucario, Wheeler and R.O.B. are not affected, while ones like Naruto/Goku (who break the debut in game criteria) and Kratos (who has NOT been on a Nintendo system due to being one of Sony's IPs) are.
Exactly, don't take Sakurai's words as gospel. Still though, understand common sense. Ralph in Smash isn't common sense. Wheeler... Gosh are we really going to talk about such an irrelevant character? Ok he would fit the criteria... Somehow. Good for him.
 
D

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Lol why so serious?
Cuz I'm the goddamn Batman.

1. I say Yoshimitsu because he's not only a Tekken character, but also a Soul character. Simple as that, two franchises at once. And by my personal experience I found that he's much more recognized than Jin and Kazuya. Maybe not more than Heihachi, but he's really famous and loved. And also he's cool, the most important thing.
"He" is not a Soul character. You are thinking of the two characters that took up the mantle and sword before Tekken Yoshi's time.
Even if he WAS the same Yoshimitsu, it doesn't make a difference. All Yoshimitsu have been minor characters in both series. It's not like Ryu Hayabusa, who is the main character of Ninja Gaiden as well as a major protagonist in Dead or Alive.

2. Wheeler is in a weird situation. He was created for an anime, and then was added in the videogame. Lucario was not created for the anime. That's what I'm talking about. He has zero chance again though.
You don't know that he was specifically created for the anime and THEN added in a video game. The first episode and the first game were a little more than one month apart, so it could have just been that the anime was made to introduce the new alternate canon seperate from the older games in the series that the newer game had or that the came was meant to come first but was delayed for whatever reason.


4. Seriously? What does it even mean? Show me a picture of Kratos standing beside Bowser. You can't, so you can't really say it would suck right? C'mon, use your imagination.
And that's not the point, AGAIN. I said that Buzz makes zero sense because he's a movie character, like Ralph. The fact that they fit well with the rest isn't important.
Did I say it would suck? No. Don't put words in my mouth.
However, you're tlaking Kratos, a Playstation character known for excess blood, gore, brutality, and sexuality, being in Nintendo's Smash Bros., where the even the darkest character in the game, Ganondorf, looks mild in comparison. That's right, if you make Ganondorf look mild, you definitely don't belong. This is why Kratos fits in so well with Mortal Kombat. As for why Kratos "fits" with the rest of the cast of Playstation All-Stars? Unlike Smash, the characters are just a clusterEFF of styles that don't mesh together that border on extreme opposites from the likes of Sackboy and Fat Princess to Kratos and Sweet Tooth.

5. No I'm italian, and the problem is that you take your chart way too seriously. I didn't demanded some characters to be removed, I was stating an opinion. Maybe in an harsh way, who cares. Oh right, you. Well sorry, OK? You can add whoever you want to that chart really, I swear I won't ask you to take them out... God.
Saying I should "seriously remove" them is pretty much the same as a demand.

Exactly, don't take Sakurai's words as gospel. Still though, understand common sense. Ralph in Smash isn't common sense. Wheeler... Gosh are we really going to talk about such an irrelevant character? Ok he would fit the criteria... Somehow. Good for him.
Oh, so he's "irrelevant" now? By that very same logic, so are Goroh and Black Shadow, so they should not be discussed either.
The last games they have been in for their series was in 2004, same as Wheeler.
As for "common sense", I'm pretty sure you have no idea what that is. It most certainly isn't defined by opinion (I say Ralph fits due to being a psuedo-game character that blends well, you say he doesn't because of his movie status. Neither of us are right, so neither side is "common sense".).
Common sense for Smash would be pretty much that characters that have never been on a Nintendo system have no place in Nintendo's fighter. That's something everyone can agree on.


And your point on "not taking Sakurai's words as gospel" doesn't really make sense. What he said was what he said. You were just incorrect in what he said.
 

AEMehr

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I can't help but mention that Vintage seems to be ignoring the fact that Mario is planned to appear in the Wreck-It Ralph Sequel, which would make the possibility of Ralph appearing in a Mario Crossover MUCH more likely. Similar to what happened with Sonic All-Stars Racing, because Eggman and Sonic made an appearance.

But don't forget that this list is about characters that have a chance to be playable.
Not a wishlist. If it were one, Golden would make me add more shake king and entei.

Every Character is up there for a reason, whether you agree with it or not.
 
D

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I can't help but mention that Vintage seems to be ignoring the fact that Mario is planned to appear in the Wreck-It Ralph Sequel, which would make the possibility of Ralph appearing in a Mario Crossover MUCH more likely. Similar to what happened with Sonic All-Stars Racing, because Eggman and Sonic made an appearance.

But don't forget that this list is about characters that have a chance to be playable.
Not a wishlist. If it were one, Golden would make me add more shake king and entei.

Every Character is up there for a reason, whether you agree with it or not.
Needs more Shake King. :troll:
 

Scoliosis Jones

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I don't personally care about if a character should be removed or not. It's not like every character up there has an equal chance to one another just because they are up there. I will say this though: I think Ralph's chances are a lot less than what most people think, and I personally don't want him in Smash. If he is counting for 3rd parties, which i'm pretty sure he would, there are other characters that deserve it more than he does.

The way I view his "debut" is that although the arcade game was released first, he still originates from a movie. Any game he has been in was based off the movie, and not his own game series. Technically, the series he "originated" from didn't exist before the movie did, and wasn't technically a real game.

Mind you, before I go any further, i'm not bashing Ralph by any means. I'm just stating the way i'm looking at it.

While he is possible, I don't plan to see him or want him in the game whatsoever. There are plenty of other characters that would be a better choice. Especially rather than including Ralph for the sake of including him.

As far as Wheeler, he isn't necessarily likely, he has his chances. But when comparing him to Goroh or Black Shadow, I don't really think he has a great chance, unless they market him for something.
 

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Where is Adeleine? I see a bunch of random anime characters and an MS paint picture, but not one of Nintendo's most famous and beloved characters from the N64 era? I am chocked.
 

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Where is Adeleine? I see a bunch of random anime characters and an MS paint picture, but not one of Nintendo's most famous and beloved characters from the N64 era? I am chocked.
Lolwut, there are no anime characters there. All characters there debuted in videogames.

And I don't think Adeleine is famous as you think...

@GoldenYuiitusin: Perhaps you could put Ryu and M. Bison (Vega in Japan) from Street Fighter? The series' producer, Yoshinori Ono, has once mentioned that if he were to put a SF character in Smash, he'd put M. Bison (Vega in Japan). And Ryu is the protagonist, obviously.

Just a suggestion. Obviously that Mega Man is the most popular Capcom character for Smash.
 

Ove

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Adeleine is iconic for the Kirby franchise and one of the most prominent characters in the N64 era. Adeleine should have been in Super Smash Bros. 64, but it isn't too late.

But random anime characters? MS paint karate-kid? Random Boo?

Capcom can contribute with Dan, Blanka, Chun-li or T.Hawk from Street Fighter, Megaman, Amaterasu and more.
 

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here's a thought: seeing as disney seem to be against their characters being in fighting wouldnt that automatically discount ralph regardless of eligible
 

FlareHabanero

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Adeleine is not really a prominent character, as she technically only appears in Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards.
 

Ove

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At least she was playable in Kirby 64, and that's not too bad.

Having only been in one game isn't anything that hinders a character from being prominent. For instance, I didn't know Ghirahim was in other games as well. Yet, he is one of the most discussed characters in this forum.
 

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But random anime characters? MS paint karate-kid? Random Boo?
There are no anime characters on the chart.
That MS paint karate-kid is Karate Joe from Rhythm Heaven, which is a Nintendo IP.
That's no random Boo, but King Boo, the main antagonist from Luigi's Mansion, as well as a recurrent character in Mario spin-offs.

You could have read GoldenYuiitusin's and AEM's posts before starting to criticize the chart for no reason.

Capcom can contribute with Dan, Blanka, Chun-li or T.Hawk from Street Fighter, Megaman, Amaterasu and more.
If there's anyone from SF who could make into SSB, it would be Ryu, since he's the main character. Either him or M. Bison, because Yoshinori Ono, current SF producer, has wanted him in Smash.
 
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