Social Smash 4 Social Topic 2.0

[Thirdkoopa]

Fix'd

shining force 2 is awesome i totally agree with you

 

[Morbi]

Well... I got my computer fixed now. At least I can enjoy the last few days on here for hype with multitasking!

Hey everyone.

I was worried, my laptop was acting quite strange. I thought that I would have to "fix" it as well; fortunately, the problem has resolved itself (somehow). I am very lucky.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I was worried, my laptop was acting quite strange. I thought that I would have to "fix" it as well; fortunately, the problem has resolved itself (somehow). I am very lucky.

It happens. Laptops are weird like that.

The big solution I suggest with Laptop's is always keep your drivers healthy.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well... I got my computer fixed now. At least I can enjoy the last few days on here for hype with multitasking!

Hey everyone.

Nice to see you back.

shining force 2 is awesome i totally agree with you

Indeed. I find the gameplay of 1 somewhat more fun(especially the cast), but 2 was far better designed realistically speaking. Better balance, less jerk moves from the A.I., and proper working codes so you can control the computer(and actually set it so the computer controls your guys. It's fun beating your own team! Too bad not every move works. Literal case of Secret A.I. Moves. Like the laser flowers can't use their laser attack if you control them)

 

[Kamikazek]

Alright, suuuuuper delayed response. I needed to take a break from typing huge forum posts.

That's still not what I mean. Removing him from the Freeza saga as is wouldn't make much of a difference. He was still pretty much useless overall or somebody does it better. That's the overall point. Yes, he was there. No, he was not necessary at all. The fact I thought he was handled poorly is not the same situation.

Then from that standpoint I do think he was necessary. If we're just going to assume that everything stays exactly the same, and we simply remove Vegeta from the equation, I think Goku would, at best, die at the hands of Freeza.

Either way, even if Vegeta has exactly zero bearing on the final outcome, his presence wildly changes the journey to that outcome. Which is a big deal in an entertainment medium.

Yes, I realized I forgot to say that. But it's still ultimately what I meant, and I should've been more specific. I still think it was dumb they refused to show why she was good at it. She just... was good at it. Nothing more.

Just because the reason isn't stated doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sometimes things are stated outright, sometimes you expect the viewer to find their own answer. The later rout is very popular in Japanese fiction albeit rarer I kids shows.
I get the feeling from this and other conversations I've had with you that you're very much on the "you should give explanations as much as possible" side of the fence, maybe can't even stand when things aren't explained. A lot of people are like that and that's fine as long as you don't present it as the only way things can be, like you're doing right now. Both ways of storytelling are widely used and are preferred by a ton of people and it's something that even the world class "authorites" in writing are split on. Some of the noble prize winners in literature are writers who specialize in books where the reader must come up with their own explanations for key aspects of the story or characters. To completely disregard that style of storytelling and assume that if something isn't explained there is no reason for it is wrong.

It makes for damn poor storytelling to have "naturally good characters". I don't care if it exists in real life, it's a poor thing to do in fiction. The characters with that kind of thing feel extremely boring. Explain why they're good, even if it's not right away. That feels way more realistic. People aren't that beyond naturally talented anyway. Not at card games. At video games, it's just they're better at reflexes or memorization than another person. It's just a different basic talent some have. Far more natural than some video game god from the day they were born.

I feel you're being too restrictive on what is or isn't good storytelling. You can make basically anything good storytelling if you know what you're doing(and you can make anything bad if you don't know what you're doing). There's a lot of times where it works to have characters with natural talent, and I don't find it even slightly unrealistic if it's something as simple as being good at a card game. Either way, we don't need to assume Rika has natural talent for her to be great at the card game, it's just one possible way to look at it.

And yes, with card games specifically, I've seen people pick up CCGs and be better than everyone around them almost immediately. If the strategy of the game jells really well with how your brain works, you can pick things up much faster than others.

I'm going to drop the thing about the digidedined entirely because either I'm not articulating it well(it is rather hard to explain conceptually) or you're not getting it. You haven't even come close to addressing what I was getting at.

I don't believe there was any symbolism at all. There was literally no consequences that can be tied to using that particular card at all. It might be if say, an actual Devimon killed Leomon or a LadyDevimon showed up, or they bothered to mention that Juri was messing with evil(which was not mentioned in any way). It's purely a coincidence due to a similar thing happening before, except for the fact that it fails to explain that "messing with evil" existed at all. Pure coincidence.

Well I'm theorizing here, not talking facts, and I'm totally opening to the possibility that I could be right or wrong, I'm really not terribly confident to begin with. There's no way of knowing for sure if symbolism was intended or not short of interviewing the creator which usually doesn't get you a straight answer anyway.

But anyway you're talking about much more concrete and blatant symbolism than I am. You're talking about "author establishes A with B, then establish B with C through the use of a common symbol and everyone should notice it" sort of symbolism. I'm just talking about author evokes a certain vague ideal through iconography and doesn't even expect most viewers to pick up on it sort of symbolism. And I'm certainly not talking about something that has any sort of effect within the actual narrative.

All that there needs to be for the type of symbolism I'm trying to propose is an associating between Lady Devimon and the devil(which is provided by her name if nothing else) and between the devil and sin. Nothing more is needed.

It's part of why I don't believe any symbolism existed. There was no "alignment" to break. It's just a card.

There doesn't need to be any alignment at all. I don't know how to get this across without giving a full Lit 201 class lecture but I'll try. Symbolism by it's very nature deals with symbols. The devil is a symbol. That symbol has cultural and literary connotations. Lady devimon is tied to those cultural connotations because her character designn incorporates the name and imagery of the devil. That makes her associated with the devil by proxy, which then makes her associated with everything the devil is associated with (which is a damn lot of things) by further proxy. The author may then chose to evoke or ignore this imagery at their discretion. Lady Devimon the actual character or digimon does not have to ever have a damn thing to do with evil the devil sin or anything whatsoever for the author to use her for satanic symbolism because it is intrinsic to her design. This also does not mean, however, that Lady devimon will be intended to have for such symbolic meaning every time she appears or, indeed, in any other instances at all.

The fact that she appeared on a card or what the cards are or what the cards mean isn't relevant. It's that she was on the card that matters.

Except Tamers made clear references to the previous seasons, so they were connected. It might've just been the dub, but they talk of the actual Adventure 1 and 2 as a TV show. It was treated like an alternate universe. And it still has continuity overall. Xros Wars made it apparent during the second season when all the main heroes(and sometimes the lancer) showed up for an episode or two.

They are all connected yes, I wasn't saying they weren't. But they do not always follow the same logic or rules and sometimes directly conflict one another. As is often the case in alternate realties. If reality is different, facts can be different. Hence why explaining something in one season/game/ect with something that happens in another can be misleading.

Also FYI, the connection between the season 3 and the first 2 seasons is exactly the same in the original and the dub. Names aside, Tamers has a very faithful dub, unlike some of the other seasons.

Even so, the LadyDevimon bit showed no signs of symbolism whatsoever. Now, other stuff does, like with the Megidramon digivolution, as it showed anger does not make for a good digivolution, but true evil. (never mind Megidramon is one of the Four Holy Dragons, but as said, he was not knowledgeable about all the canon). He did get some things right, like the guardians with Quinlongmon and the other 3 Sovereign. Those were an actual specific group and even the dub played that correctly. Also, many Digimon are naturally violent even in the Adventure 1 and 2 series, which they didn't act all that different here. I'd say he kept up the idea of how the series works extremely well. Also, it was well known that Armor Digimon always had alternate levels and could often come from regular Digimon without using a DigiEgg.(to note, an Armor level is only achieved with Armor Digivolution. Actually digivolving into that Digimon without a DigiEgg is a regular Digivolution and completely normal). Also, they avoid this beautifully with X-Antibody Armors. They are treated as a regular level instead of an Armor period.

Well yes the director certainly did his research and I'm sure he had informants and editors from Bandai to help him out. What I'm saying is he might be more willing to fudge or alter things if he feels he needs to for some purpose. I suspect that's probably part of why he made it an alternate reality in respect to the previous seasons, it's a reason why a lot of writers use ARs, it gives you some wiggle room. That doesn't mean he didn't try to keep things consistent when there was no reason to change things, though.

...I have absolutely no idea where you're going talking about the digieggs and X antibodies.

...And I think I have a new personal record for post length! :D

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Alright, suuuuuper delayed response. I needed to take a break from typing huge forum posts.

Then from that standpoint I do think he was necessary. If we're just going to assume that everything stays exactly the same, and we simply remove Vegeta from the equation, I think Goku would, at best, die at the hands of Freeza.

Either way, even if Vegeta has exactly zero bearing on the final outcome, his presence wildly changes the journey to that outcome. Which is a big deal in an entertainment medium.



Just because the reason isn't stated doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sometimes things are stated outright, sometimes you expect the viewer to find their own answer. The later rout is very popular in Japanese fiction albeit rarer I kids shows.
I get the feeling from this and other conversations I've had with you that you're very much on the "you should give explanations as much as possible" side of the fence, maybe can't even stand when things aren't explained. A lot of people are like that and that's fine as long as you don't present it as the only way things can be, like you're doing right now. Both ways of storytelling are widely used and are preferred by a ton of people and it's something that even the world class "authorites" in writing are split on. Some of the noble prize winners in literature are writers who specialize in books where the reader must come up with their own explanations for key aspects of the story or characters. To completely disregard that style of storytelling and assume that if something isn't explained there is no reason for it is wrong.


I feel you're being too restrictive on what is or isn't good storytelling. You can make basically anything good storytelling if you know what you're doing(and you can make anything bad if you don't know what you're doing). There's a lot of times where it works to have characters with natural talent, and I don't find it even slightly unrealistic if it's something as simple as being good at a card game. Either way, we don't need to assume Rika has natural talent for her to be great at the card game, it's just one possible way to look at it.

And yes, with card games specifically, I've seen people pick up CCGs and be better than everyone around them almost immediately. If the strategy of the game jells really well with how your brain works, you can pick things up much faster than others.

I'm going to drop the thing about the digidedined entirely because either I'm not articulating it well(it is rather hard to explain conceptually) or you're not getting it. You haven't even come close to addressing what I was getting at.



Well I'm theorizing here, not talking facts, and I'm totally opening to the possibility that I could be right or wrong, I'm really not terribly confident to begin with. There's no way of knowing for sure if symbolism was intended or not short of interviewing the creator which usually doesn't get you a straight answer anyway.

But anyway you're talking about much more concrete and blatant symbolism than I am. You're talking about "author establishes A with B, then establish B with C through the use of a common symbol and everyone should notice it" sort of symbolism. I'm just talking about author evokes a certain vague ideal through iconography and doesn't even expect most viewers to pick up on it sort of symbolism. And I'm certainly not talking about something that has any sort of effect within the actual narrative.

All that there needs to be for the type of symbolism I'm trying to propose is an associating between Lady Devimon and the devil(which is provided by her name if nothing else) and between the devil and sin. Nothing more is needed.



There doesn't need to be any alignment at all. I don't know how to get this across without giving a full Lit 201 class lecture but I'll try. Symbolism by it's very nature deals with symbols. The devil is a symbol. That symbol has cultural and literary connotations. Lady devimon is tied to those cultural connotations because her character designn incorporates the name and imagery of the devil. That makes her associated with the devil by proxy, which then makes her associated with everything the devil is associated with (which is a damn lot of things) by further proxy. The author may then chose to evoke or ignore this imagery at their discretion. Lady Devimon the actual character or digimon does not have to ever have a damn thing to do with evil the devil sin or anything whatsoever for the author to use her for satanic symbolism because it is intrinsic to her design. This also does not mean, however, that Lady devimon will be intended to have for such symbolic meaning every time she appears or, indeed, in any other instances at all.

The fact that she appeared on a card or what the cards are or what the cards mean isn't relevant. It's that she was on the card that matters.


They are all connected yes, I wasn't saying they weren't. But they do not always follow the same logic or rules and sometimes directly conflict one another. As is often the case in alternate realties. If reality is different, facts can be different. Hence why explaining something in one season/game/ect with something that happens in another can be misleading.

Also FYI, the connection between the season 3 and the first 2 seasons is exactly the same in the original and the dub. Names aside, Tamers has a very faithful dub, unlike some of the other seasons.


Well yes the director certainly did his research and I'm sure he had informants and editors from Bandai to help him out. What I'm saying is he might be more willing to fudge or alter things if he feels he needs to for some purpose. I suspect that's probably part of why he made it an alternate reality in respect to the previous seasons, it's a reason why a lot of writers use ARs, it gives you some wiggle room. That doesn't mean he didn't try to keep things consistent when there was no reason to change things, though.

...I have absolutely no idea where you're going talking about the digieggs and X antibodies.

...Seriously? Dude, I don't even care anymore. Look, no offense, but the conversation has dragged on severely. Please just stop. Whatever. I made my points, we disagree.

Also, you're only concentrating on the debate points. I talk about other stuff because I actually want to converse about things besides dragged on debates. That's why I like to talk about stuff like the DigiEggs, to change the conversation to something, to be frank, interesting.(I'm not trying to decrease or derail the debate, I'm trying to have a fun conversation on the side.) I don't much care about the symbolism at this point. I think it had little. Boom, done. I don't think Vegeta was severely important beyond giving life to Trunks, Boom, done. I don't want to debate this any more, okay?

Unless you want to talk about the DigiEggs and X-Antibodies, please stop trying to debate with me on this subject. I only continued a small bit just to note some things I agreed and disagreed with. Right now, at this point, there are no new points to bring up at all. It's literally a pointless conversation here.

I will end with one last thing; I don't find it good to not explain things in the actual show. I will always call that poor writing. It comes off horribly as "they didn't care" or sometimes even a Deus Ex Machina. I don't like those overall. If they have a special gift, explain it. Otherwise, the gift has little meaning to the actual story beyond "oh, they're badass. Um, great?" Being badass for the sake of being badass is great for a moment. But knowing why they're badass actually makes the character interesting in itself. Yes, I lie on that side of the fence because I like information, as well as action. Too much information is boring. Too much action doesn't excite me. Having both is what makes a story good.(I will note this is why I find the SSE's story actually bland. Little information is given. I only find the cutscenes good for music videos at this point, give or take a few scenes here or there, which were cool).

I don't know if you know this, but while I used to love to debate to death(if you will), I've actually started to get sick of super long debates and when it ceases to be fun(this is the case here) and when the points are reported over and over(making it boring), there's no point to continue. I find it this case, and want a new conversation that isn't just debate debate debate. Basically, I want to actually converse about things that are cool because they're cool or because I like them. I don't debate too often because it's actually pretty boring to me now. I've grown out of it.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

He gives props to Nintendo

I agree with him, Nintendo + PC Master race

 

[ctr]

Apparently DBZBoards now, lol.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Nice to see you back.


Indeed. I find the gameplay of 1 somewhat more fun(especially the cast), but 2 was far better designed realistically speaking. Better balance, less jerk moves from the A.I., and proper working codes so you can control the computer(and actually set it so the computer controls your guys. It's fun beating your own team! Too bad not every move works. Literal case of Secret A.I. Moves. Like the laser flowers can't use their laser attack if you control them)

Holy cow someone who played them to! Yes!

I don't know. I thought the cast of shining force 2 was top notch but the balance went out the roof with some of them; damn shame too. Why do I use Gerhalt, Slade, and Peter every run? Oh the woes of me. At least with the right RNG they can solo stuff well. The gameplay is still a bit more fun in one at times; I can agree with that

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Holy cow someone who played them to! Yes!

I don't know. I thought the cast of shining force 2 was top notch but the balance went out the roof with some of them; damn shame too. Why do I use Gerhalt, Slade, and Peter every run? Oh the woes of me. At least with the right RNG they can solo stuff well. The gameplay is still a bit more fun in one at times; I can agree with that

Well, not counting the Gamebreakers. I mean the overall gameplay is balanced a bit better. The enemies are smarter, but not pure jerks. None of this "you easily miss and they kill you quickly" bull. Okay, here and there.

Yeah, I'm a Shining series fan. I own the first 3 games and Neo. Albeit, I only own In The Darkness via the Sonic Ultimate Collection, but it's a very fun dungeon crawler. I own physical copies of the regular two Shining Force games. I also own Shining Force 1's remake(I prefer the original a bit more, but the remake is pretty cool in its own right, and a bit less balanced, imo) and Shining Soul(which is very addictive despite having very bad quality).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

LOL, someone in the comment section of that video says Nintendo doesn't have any exclusive games

Almost EVERYTHING Nintendo has is exclusive games

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Well, not counting the Gamebreakers. I mean the overall gameplay is balanced a bit better. The enemies are smarter, but not pure jerks. None of this "you easily miss and they kill you quickly" bull. Okay, here and there.

Yeah, I'm a Shining series fan. I own the first 3 games and Neo. Albeit, I only own In The Darkness via the Sonic Ultimate Collection, but it's a very fun dungeon crawler. I own physical copies of the regular two Shining Force games. I also own Shining Force 1's remake(I prefer the original a bit more, but the remake is pretty cool in its own right, and a bit less balanced, imo) and Shining Soul(which is very addictive despite having very bad quality).

Nice! I'll probably buy the others at some point but 1-3 (ESP all scenarios) were sooo long. I wish I had more time to devote to stupidly long rpg's

I meant more that I can see your problem with cast balance. Really, still fantastic, even if 1 has a slight few better design choices.

 

[Kamikazek]

The Sims isn't (or wasn't, they pimped the **** out of it in TS3) exactly real world setting, so to speak. The Sims 1 had mostly "references" to the real world, places and products, the most explicit being Hollywood in my opinion, included in the Superstar expansion pack. The Sims 3 has a ****ing Katy Perry pack, literally her name is in the title. Instead of creating their own fantasy products/items based on real stuff (I'm not saying they should plagiarize), they go and sell their integrity to other corporations in exchange of money.

You can tell when a company is being greedy with it.

It's basically the real world setting. It's certainly not a setting where things from the real world seem out of place.

Anyways not talking about the Sims but just product placement in general, a lot of people actually really hate when a series that is apparently set in the real world has clear fantasy analogs for real things, unless they do a really good job of being clever about it/parodying things like GTA. They feel it cheapens the realism, takes them entirely out of the setting and comes off as tacky. A lot of times when you have a fantasy analog for something it's because the creators wanted to use the real thing but couldn't, sometimes they'll even ask and only make their own versions after being turned down. A lot of books and such have historically used real life products and names and not gotten payed a dime. Fan works will often use real life products even though the entire work itself isn't getting them any money. Sometimes people will actually pay to be able to use copywriten names and products and get nothing in return for it.

Seriously, "I want rights money" is not the only reason for product placement.

Also I see nothing intrinsically wrong with trying to make money. You can do horrible thing to make money, absolutely. But something being done for money doesn't instantly make it a horrible thing to do.

 

[PLATINUM7]

He gives props to Nintendo

I agree with him, Nintendo + PC Master race

Sony's lost it with their 1st party games. Their franchises use to release often enough to entice me but now they are few and far between. It feels kind of sad that a third party title is what is making me buy a PS4. I keep thinking eventually they'll release the games I want but I'm becoming increasingly sceptical.

There's just not enough first party games.
I think they relied too much on third party games, something Nintendo hasn't had the luxury to do in a while and is probably what has helped them.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think I've ever played a Sony 1st party title so I don't really have any opinion on them

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nice! I'll probably buy the others at some point but 1-3 (ESP all scenarios) were sooo long. I wish I had more time to devote to stupidly long rpg's

I meant more that I can see your problem with cast balance. Really, still fantastic, even if 1 has a slight few better design choices.

Right. And agreed.

I felt the overall cast of 1 themselves were fairly balanced. Nobody was ridiculously more powerful than another. Sure, there were tiers and all. Like Domingo towers above the other Mages by far. I also felt that most of the cast of the first game is more memorable. Especially since the majority was notable, even moreso in the remake. The second game's cast had a lot of characters, but only a small amount of them heavily stood out. It's probably due to the story being more around Slade than just being a generic plot like Shining Force 1's was. Well, generic is maybe overstating it, but it's really not as "heavy" as the second game's overall. Even the smaller characters were fun and exciting, like that random guy who shows up over and over, climbing everywhere(I forget his name. It's been years since I played).

So what did you name Kiwi? I named him Bowser due to his second form being kind of similar in design(and breathing fire. Sure, the flying part is different, but...)

I wish III got fully translated. >_< Same with Feather. I want the old turn-based style back. Not the Action RPG stuff. We got enough of those. Turn-based RPG's are very rare these days. Okay, maybe not hyper rare, but many just opt for action/adventure builds nowadays. Disgaea is nice, though.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I don't think I've ever played a Sony 1st party title so I don't really have any opinion on them

I'm a big fan of Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Daxter, Uncharted and LittleBigPlanet. Unfortunately Insomniac is focusing on Sunset Overdrive and has only delivered smaller R&C titles lately leaving fans feel a bit neglected.
Naughty Dog can't get their act together to make another J&D because their afraid of changing it too much which they didn't seem to fear going from Jak 1 to Jak 2.
I expect a LBP just because that really makes use of the PSN but without free online I won't be able to make use of its online.
By the time I get a PS4 Uncharted 4 will probably be one of those bargain bin games.

Wow only 4 franchises? They really need to focus on their first party titles. No wonder Battle Royale was so bad.

Maybe if Crash and Spyro never left Sony they'd be in a better position?

 

[Morrigan]

It's basically the real world setting. It's certainly not a setting where things from the real world seem out of place.

Anyways not talking about the Sims but just product placement in general, a lot of people actually really hate when a series that is apparently set in the real world has clear fantasy analogs for real things, unless they do a really good job of being clever about it/parodying things like GTA. They feel it cheapens the realism, takes them entirely out of the setting and comes off as tacky. A lot of times when you have a fantasy analog for something it's because the creators wanted to use the real thing but couldn't, sometimes they'll even ask and only make their own versions after being turned down. A lot of books and such have historically used real life products and names and not gotten payed a dime. Fan works will often use real life products even though the entire work itself isn't getting them any money. Sometimes people will actually pay to be able to use copywriten names and products and get nothing in return for it.

Seriously, "I want rights money" is not the only reason for product placement.

Also I see nothing intrinsically wrong with trying to make money. You can do horrible thing to make money, absolutely. But something being done for money doesn't instantly make it a horrible thing to do.

Funny that you mentioned "fantasy", you reminded me how much I disliked the fantastic/supernatural aspect in The Sims. It's also funny and convenient how, in TS1 and 2, the expansion packs containing fantasy and magic were the last ones. It was so sloppily done in TS2... the magic EP was actually called Apartment Life, which featured living in apartment buildings rather than houses, they just slapped the witchcraft thing in just because.

I just found this article that pretty much reflects my view on this Mercedes/Nintendo deal http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertc...artnership-with-mercedes-for-mario-kart-8-dlc

It's just weird.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Maybe the Mercedes Benz-Nintendo deal is part of their plan to branch out.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Punch Out is pretty much a boxing themed puzzle game.

Smash Bros. is pretty much a party themed platform game.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Right. And agreed.

I felt the overall cast of 1 themselves were fairly balanced. Nobody was ridiculously more powerful than another. Sure, there were tiers and all. Like Domingo towers above the other Mages by far. I also felt that most of the cast of the first game is more memorable. Especially since the majority was notable, even moreso in the remake. The second game's cast had a lot of characters, but only a small amount of them heavily stood out. It's probably due to the story being more around Slade than just being a generic plot like Shining Force 1's was. Well, generic is maybe overstating it, but it's really not as "heavy" as the second game's overall. Even the smaller characters were fun and exciting, like that random guy who shows up over and over, climbing everywhere(I forget his name. It's been years since I played).

So what did you name Kiwi? I named him Bowser due to his second form being kind of similar in design(and breathing fire. Sure, the flying part is different, but...)

I wish III got fully translated. >_< Same with Feather. I want the old turn-based style back. Not the Action RPG stuff. We got enough of those. Turn-based RPG's are very rare these days. Okay, maybe not hyper rare, but many just opt for action/adventure builds nowadays. Disgaea is nice, though.

Dude I'll have to like start a pm with you possibly to remember this

I'd try 3 out on emulation with the translations; last I heard, Camelot employees actually helped out with those, and really any way to say "we want shining force 3 HD" is good in my book. It's something we need for game stories. Even if most people just watch gameplay footage, it's an experience they NEED.

I wish Camelot got the IP. Maybe then we could see Slade in Smash.

I usually don't name characters cept in Pokemon but I remember naming Kiwi "Lemon" in one of my runs. I'm sure I've used bowser before as well.

2 just lacked variety IMHO. They're serious about Slade and the entire plot is basically Slade (oh and Bowie I guess); they're all fantastic characters but the "lol grim dark" setting doesn't help them. 1 had a bit more freedom with it's generalizing plot so it took more risks with characters.

hasn't shining force became every breed of rpg

 

[Morbi]

Smash Bros. is pretty much a party themed platform game.

More like a platform themed party game if you ask me; however, there are fighting game elements, of course.

 

[Kamikazek]

...Seriously? Dude, I don't even care anymore. Look, no offense, but the conversation has dragged on severely. Please just stop. Whatever. I made my points, we disagree.

Also, you're only concentrating on the debate points. I talk about other stuff because I actually want to converse about things besides dragged on debates. That's why I like to talk about stuff like the DigiEggs, to change the conversation to something, to be frank, interesting.(I'm not trying to decrease or derail the debate, I'm trying to have a fun conversation on the side.) I don't much care about the symbolism at this point. I think it had little. Boom, done. I don't think Vegeta was severely important beyond giving life to Trunks, Boom, done. I don't want to debate this any more, okay?

Unless you want to talk about the DigiEggs and X-Antibodies, please stop trying to debate with me on this subject. I only continued a small bit just to note some things I agreed and disagreed with. Right now, at this point, there are no new points to bring up at all. It's literally a pointless conversation here.

I will end with one last thing; I don't find it good to not explain things in the actual show. I will always call that poor writing. It comes off horribly as "they didn't care" or sometimes even a Deus Ex Machina. I don't like those overall. If they have a special gift, explain it. Otherwise, the gift has little meaning to the actual story beyond "oh, they're badass. Um, great?" Being badass for the sake of being badass is great for a moment. But knowing why they're badass actually makes the character interesting in itself. Yes, I lie on that side of the fence because I like information, as well as action. Too much information is boring. Too much action doesn't excite me. Having both is what makes a story good.(I will note this is why I find the SSE's story actually bland. Little information is given. I only find the cutscenes good for music videos at this point, give or take a few scenes here or there, which were cool).

I don't know if you know this, but while I used to love to debate to death(if you will), I've actually started to get sick of super long debates and when it ceases to be fun(this is the case here) and when the points are reported over and over(making it boring), there's no point to continue. I find it this case, and want a new conversation that isn't just debate debate debate. Basically, I want to actually converse about things that are cool because they're cool or because I like them. I don't debate too often because it's actually pretty boring to me now. I've grown out of it.

O.K., important clarification post.

Well I was continuing on with the debate since I found it interesting. And I thought you wanted to continue. Simple as that. Oh and I'm trying hardcore to procrastinate on writing a protein toxins final and I don't have much else to do. I don't believe the conversation was dead in that I feel there still were still things to say and we were talking about things I find deeply interesting, but obviously there's no need to continue after either one of us gets bored since it's just an internet conversation. I don't believe conversation is ever "done" until an agreement is reached, but it can be stopped at any time. Usually when we talk I just drop it at some point but here I hadn't done so yet because I was still interested in the topic. Feel totes free to drop out at any time you want, you don't have to respond to ANY of my posts. I do wish we could come to an agree on more things but it is what it is.

I'm totally fine with talking about other things, hell some of the tings you've mentioned are things I think are really interesting, it's just I never get the impression that you're trying to talk about other things AT ALL. You'll quote my post, counter my argument, then start talking about digi-eggs or alignments or something in the same paragraph with transitional words VERY heavily implying that it's still part of the same thought and it is related to the your argument and phrased in a way that VERY strongly implies you're trying to argue against someone. And so I end up completely confused. If you want to talk about something else or you want to have a conversation without extensive arguing I'm totally down with that but I never get that impression. If you were like "On an unelated note, digimon that original appeared as didi eggs..." or "Speaking of digimon, I like how they handle the X antibodies..." or a "Lets drop this, I want to talk about x instead" like you're doing right now or something like that I wouldn't have assumed they were part of the ongoing argument. I'm not concentrating on the debate points I just didn't realize you were saying things that weren't debate points. I was very, very confused is all. Seriously, just make a post like the one I'm quoting right now way earlier so I know how you feel. I honestly don't like extensive arguments either.

I hope that clears some things up.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dude I'll have to like start a pm with you possibly to remember this

I'd try 3 out on emulation with the translations; last I heard, Camelot employees actually helped out with those, and really any way to say "we want shining force 3 HD" is good in my book. It's something we need for game stories. Even if most people just watch gameplay footage, it's an experience they NEED.

Totally. I mean, you have 3 different Heroes in III. Yes. Just yes.

I wish Camelot got the IP. Maybe then we could see Slade in Smash.

Or a Hero. But yeah, Sega just doesn't do anything useful with it. I think after Neo and the Shining Soul games they just dropped the ball. No translating Feather was the nail in the coffin. They suck at working with the series. They could at least put one of the Tank class characters from II in Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing...

I usually don't name characters cept in Pokemon but I remember naming Kiwi "Lemon" in one of my runs. I'm sure I've used bowser before as well.

Ever try the code to do so in I and II?

2 just lacked variety IMHO. They're serious about Slade and the entire plot is basically Slade (oh and Bowie I guess); they're all fantastic characters but the "lol grim dark" setting doesn't help them. 1 had a bit more freedom with it's generalizing plot so it took more risks with characters.

True. Although the class variety in I was eh, II had less variety with how the characters were overall. It kind of did it better by having the neat class promotions that the previous game didn't have.

hasn't shining force became every breed of rpg

It depends how one defines an RPG(lordy, is that a murky one. Sports, Music, and Racing could possibly be the only genres that are easy to define period). I don't think there's an Adventure-based RPG for the series yet, and since Sports often are like turn-based rpg's, it doesn't cover that either, and there is no Fighting/RPG hybrid. Or Wrestling/RPG too. It does have a lot more variety of genres than most rpg's, though. No RTS either, I guess.

O.K., important clarification post.

Well I was continuing on with the debate since I found it interesting. And I thought you wanted to continue. Simple as that. Oh and I'm trying hardcore to procrastinate on writing a protein toxins final and I don't have much else to do. I don't believe the conversation was dead in that I feel there still were still things to say and we were talking about things I find deeply interesting, but obviously there's no need to continue after either one of us gets bored since it's just an internet conversation. I don't believe conversation is ever "done" until an agreement is reached, but it can be stopped at any time. Usually when we talk I just drop it at some point but here I hadn't done so yet because I was still interested in the topic. Feel totes free to drop out at any time you want, you don't have to respond to ANY of my posts. I do wish we could come to an agree on more things but it is what it is.

I'm totally fine with talking about other things, hell some of the tings you've mentioned are things I think are really interesting, it's just I never get the impression that you're trying to talk about other things AT ALL. You'll quote my post, counter my argument, then start talking about digi-eggs or alignments or something in the same paragraph with transitional words VERY heavily implying that it's still part of the same thought and it is related to the your argument and phrased in a way that VERY strongly implies you're trying to argue against someone. And so I end up completely confused. If you want to talk about something else or you want to have a conversation without extensive arguing I'm totally down with that but I never get that impression. If you were like "On an unelated note, digimon that original appeared as didi eggs..." or "Speaking of digimon, I like how they handle the X antibodies..." or a "Lets drop this, I want to talk about x instead" like you're doing right now or something like that I wouldn't have assumed they were part of the ongoing argument. I'm not concentrating on the debate points I just didn't realize you were saying things that weren't debate points. I was very, very confused is all. Seriously, just make a post like the one I'm quoting right now way earlier so I know how you feel. I honestly don't like extensive arguments either.

I hope that clears some things up.

I should've definitely made it clear it was a separate thing. Apologies for that. My mind wanders off sometimes, and to be honest, I more or less do that to keep myself from going nuts from being bored with a conversation.

Again, apologies. That said, thank you for understanding.

 

[Kamikazek]

I should've definitely made it clear it was a separate thing. Apologies for that. My mind wanders off sometimes, and to be honest, I more or less do that to keep myself from going nuts from being bored with a conversation.

Again, apologies. That said, thank you for understanding.

If you're that bored then just don't respond lol.

 

[Morbi]

If you're that bored then just don't respond lol.

What if she was bored enough to respond, but not entertained enough to respond with enthusiasm?

 

[MSmariosonic]

Reading down through the comments, he admitted he was tricking people like 11 minutes ago.

That was me... I'm Milan.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If you're that bored then just don't respond lol.

What if she was bored enough to respond, but not entertained enough to respond with enthusiasm?

She gets it.

Plus, it's better to actually say you don't wish to continue than to keep you waiting. I find it disrespectful to ignore someone. Saying you are no longer interested is a reasonable response overall.

 

[Artorias]

He gives props to Nintendo

I agree with him, Nintendo + PC Master race

The only reason i could see myself buying a new gen console is if this

turns out to be, as rumored by the leaker who uploaded the footage, exclusive to PS4, being a possible direct sequel to Demon's Souls.
None of these consoles so far have interesting exclusives that would make me think of buying them.
The only console i could see myself buying is a Wii U, mostly cause the 3DS version of Smash Bros, for obvious reasons, won't have local multiplayer and I've always enjoyed that aspect of the game with my sis and with friends that come over.

 

[Morrigan]

There's sexual tension I feel.

 

[Kamikazek]

What if she was bored enough to respond, but not entertained enough to respond with enthusiasm?

A situation I often find myself in. But not an enjoyable one to be in.

She gets it.

Plus, it's better to actually say you don't wish to continue than to keep you waiting. I find it disrespectful to ignore someone. Saying you are no longer interested is a reasonable response overall.

I suppose. I see how that could be viewed as disrespectful but I've never seen it that way. I see it just as the conversation naturally fizzing out as conversations do IRL. Also please feel no need to be respectful as far as I'm concerned. You could tell me to go **** off and die painfully and I would not be the least bit bothered.

 

[Saito]

You could tell me to go **** off and die painfully and I would not be the least bit bothered.

The mods would be though.

 

[Kamikazek]

The mods would be though.

Darn mods interfering with my god given right to be disrespected!

 

[Saito]

Gold kart
Gold Tires

Now I just need that gold glider.

Too bad there's no gold bike. That makes me salty.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I still wanna get the flying ship kart

 

[SmashShadow]

I just heard Kingdom Hearts 3 won't be at E3.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

That's ok

Nintendo's president won't be at E3 either

 

[Artorias]

I just heard Kingdom Hearts 3 won't be at E3.

Nor Final Fantasy XV(vs XIII previously) wich is a pretty weird move coming from Square Enix. Wonder in what they'll focus. I guess they'll just go with the dumb ps3 HD remixes

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I just heard Kingdom Hearts 3 won't be at E3.

FFFFFFFFFF....

Oh well. At least there's still OR/AS (I hope), and SSB4.

....UUUUUU-

Found this short trailer while checking KHInsider, however. No gameplay or anything.

----

 

[Kamikazek]

I just heard Kingdom Hearts 3 won't be at E3.

Kingdom Hearts 3 is a lie!