Smash 4 Social Thread 3.0

[Kenith]

Actually, that's the first time I have ever actually listened to Pac-Man Fever. It's actually really catchy.
Now I have Pac-Man Fever.

 

[Geno Boost]

SMASH IS DIFFERENT, it's a fanservice game, you're supposed to please the fans on a fanservice game...and can you tell me who would feel alienated if Sakurai added Mewtwo, K.Rool and Ridley? I'm willing to bet the ratio of people who wouldn't like that would be like 1 to 20...he would finally throw a bone to fanbases that have been left unnatended because he was too busy porting everything from Kid Icarus Uprising to bother thinking about those fanbases.

Make Ridley, K.Rool, Mewtwo, Isaac playable? Probably 2% of the fanbase won't like them.
Make Rosalina, Duck Hunt Dog, Greninja, Robin, Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, Wii Fit Trainer playable? Like 80% of the fanbase hates those characters, or at least one of them (This coming from a gigantic Rosalina fan...I just know she's not really an All-Star).

So why? Why did he do it? Seriously, by looking at Sakurai's choices and patterns, it seems more and more like he focused on doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the fanbase expected, but much more importantly, WANTED.

The only characters I think could be considered blatant fan-pandering would be Geno or Roy, Geno because he has no place among Nintendo All-Stars and appeared on one non-main-series game. And Roy because his fan-demand comes from Super Smash Bros. Melee rather than his own damn game. I'm actually glad Mewtwo sucks on Melee, because it helps prove that the fanbase wants him back not because of his moveset, not because he was in Melee, but because he's ****ING MEWTWO.

If he was making, say, Kid Icarus Uprising 2, then yes, let the man do whatever he wants and experiment as much as he wants, because he's dealing with a franchise that he revived and knows better, but if you're given the responsibility of making a game featuring Nintendo's All-Stars, you just CAN'T have favorites, you gotta listen to the fans because this game's supposed to be a love letter to all Nintendo fans, not a love letter to Sakurai, and if the fans want Ridley, K.Rool and Mewtwo, then give them friggin Ridley, K.Rool and Mewtwo before you start looking around your Top 10 games list to add characters.

hey i request BOTH of Roy and Geno and they are NOT impossible charcters

 

[Naoshi]

hey i request BOTH of Roy and Geno and they are NOT impossible charcters

Don't bother responding to that guy. He's just asking for attention and deludes himself into thinking the vocal minority makes up for the majority of the people who buy the games.


EDIT: ...Besides, that argument was from a week ago. :|

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Its always funny to me how people say Geno is impossible while we had Solid friggin Snake in Brawl. I mean its not like they already asked Square to use Geno as a mini-cameo in Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga and got him no problem, or had a plethora of of crossover games with Square on the Wii and DS to build a good relationship with them (and still do with how well Bravely Default is doing). It all comes down to fan demand and if Sakurai thinks he's a good enough character. And honestly, with irrelevant characters like ROB, DHD and Ice Climbers being included just because Sakurai thought they ware interesting enough, anything can happen.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Don't bother responding to that guy. He's just asking for attention and deludes himself into thinking the vocal minority makes up for the majority of the people who buy the games.


EDIT: ...Besides, that argument was from a week ago. :|

I'm more bothered by the extreme bump towards the argument.

I somewhat do agree that Roy and Geno are highly unlikely. Two Roys is confusing, and Geno's chances are very very low. He's yet another Mario character, from a somewhat niche(by Mario standards) 3rd Party-made RPG, and his popularity is low, never mind getting Square-Enix to allow them to use him over their more prominent characters. There's other 3rd Party or Public Domain characters with less issues. Not that I think they're always better choices. Brian from Quest 64 went Public Domain when the copyright for the series ran out. Sakurai could easily take him. Of course, the series has no major popularity, and at best is closer to a Cult Classic lately that people want to see on the VC(with no 3rd party issues, the only thing to worry about is the Memory Pak issues at best). But its popularity is so low that fixing it on there is not worth the cash. Even translating the superior Japanese version and making it 10 dollars is not worth it. And this is coming from a huge fan of the series.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

When all is said and done, I am conetent with the current roster. The fact that Little Mac and Shulk made it in is trully magical.

 

[Naoshi]

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the roster despite the cuts. Only thing that really bugs me is how the CSS isn't a perfect square.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

I cant wait to play the game and discover all that the WiiU version has to offer.... but I have to thanks to Nintendo's "genius" planning

 

[Frostwraith]

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the roster despite the cuts. Only thing that really bugs me is how the CSS isn't a perfect square.

If you take out the clone trio (perhaps, you somehow avoid unlocking them), Shulk and the third parties go to the upper row, leaving the Mii Fighters and the Random button on the last line.

That's the closest to a perfect square you will have. lol

But I think it's impossible to leave the clone trio to unlock given how you need Dark Pit before unlocking Mr. Game & Watch and Duck Hunt Duo.

 

[FalKoopa]

The fact that it's not a perfect square makes me think more characters are/were planned. Just a hunch.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The fact that it's not a perfect square makes me think more characters are/were planned. Just a hunch.

I never got that impression, and I'm confused as to why others do.

 

[Radical Bones]

The fact that it's not a perfect square makes me think more characters are/were planned. Just a hunch.

I think I remember someone in the leaks group posting a roster without clones but adding Ice Climbers and Chorus Kids and it was a perfect shape. I think.

 

[Naoshi]

If DLC/Extra characters were to exist, I can just see them adding an arrow for Page 2 rather than making the CSS a perfect square. Not saying this is the likely outcome but yeah, something to think about.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The fact that it's not a perfect square makes me think more characters are/were planned. Just a hunch.

Ice Climbers could fill that last bit on the second to last row. Melee never had a "perfect square" either, so it might never have been at any time. In fact, since they're the only character we definitely know was planned, that's probably what happened. They could've been scrapped so late in development that he decided to not change the CSS since he had an idea of how it should work already.

 

[Knight Dude]

The fact that it's not a perfect square makes me think more characters are/were planned. Just a hunch.

I don't think Melee's CSS had a perfect square either. Granted, Smash 64 and Brawl did. Not to say DLC can't happen. And I'd be very ecstatic if it did. But I wouldn't take this as a major hint or anything.

 

[Kenith]

I don't think Melee's CSS had a perfect square either. Granted, Smash 64 and Brawl did. Not to say DLC can't happen. And I'd be very ecstatic if it did. But I wouldn't take this as a major hint or anything.

Well, Melee's roster wasn't a rectangle due to the clones.

...Or maybe not? There's enough room for Dedede and a random button without clones which would make a rectangle.
But if you took the proportions of SSB4's roster and subtracted the clones...it's really weird looking. It doesn't fit.
Maybe that's what they are referring to.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well, Melee's roster wasn't a rectangle due to the clones.

...Or maybe not? There's enough room for Dedede and a random button without clones which would make a rectangle.
But if you took the proportions of SSB4's roster and subtracted the clones...it's really weird looking. It doesn't fit.
Maybe that's what they are referring to.

 

[FlareHabanero]

What's the deal with people being OCD about the shape of the character select screen anyway?

 

[Vintage Creep]

I see that Sakurai has learned a lot from that ****ty unlocking method for the stickers in Brawl. Just did Classic at 9 intensity with Duck Hunt Duo and I unlocked three custom moves... Which I ALREADY unlocked countless times.
I don't even have that many moves (220 circa), it's 150 moves left.
**** this game, what a disappointment my God.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, Melee's roster wasn't a rectangle due to the clones.

...Or maybe not? There's enough room for Dedede and a random button without clones which would make a rectangle.
But if you took the proportions of SSB4's roster and subtracted the clones...it's really weird looking. It doesn't fit.
Maybe that's what they are referring to.

No, it's the rectangle part because of the clones. But you have a point about the King Dedede and Random Button thing. It was likely the original idea. That's why the clones don't show up as ? boxes. Maybe that's why he didn't put in a Random Button itself, since the regular unlockables have a ? icon. Could be too confusing. I'm betting if he didn't do the clones, there would be no set of ? boxes outside of the Random Button. Or it would be a different colored box.

Smash 4 didn't have that idea. It was going to have Ice Climbers back instead of the clones being added later. And even so, I think that the second to last row not matching up with the first set of rows looks weird to me. I would've moved Shulk to that empty space, but it's still fine either way. It's also possible more were planned. Wolf Flash and Lucas' B moves are used as Customs, so they could've been scrapped. BTW, does Lucario's variant Neutral B moves have anything similar to Shadow Ball's movement?(instead of straight, it goes in a weird animated pattern). If so, that means he could have been worked on. There's no player-like data for Mewtwo, so he may have never made it into the game. Sakurai did say 'we're considering it" effectively. Which does actually mean they never got him into the game itself. For whatever reason.

 

[Frostwraith]

I absolutely love the new Final Destination design. The music is pretty great too.

It already looks great on the 3DS, so it's not hard to imagine the epicness it will be on HD.

 

[Themandme]

I see that Sakurai has learned a lot from that ****ty unlocking method for the stickers in Brawl. Just did Classic at 9 intensity with Duck Hunt Duo and I unlocked three custom moves... Which I ALREADY unlocked countless times.
I don't even have that many moves (220 circa), it's 150 moves left.
**** this game, what a disappointment my God.

Then sell it

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

For some reason I have a difficult time doing up smash and down smash, it usually just comes out a tilt

It's cost me matches

 

[Vintage Creep]

Then sell it

Wow what a very mature response, great arguments too, I think responding to this would be such a waste of time because you already told everything there was left to say!

 

[Kenith]

No, it's the rectangle part because of the clones. But you have a point about the King Dedede and Random Button thing. It was likely the original idea. That's why the clones don't show up as ? boxes. Maybe that's why he didn't put in a Random Button itself, since the regular unlockables have a ? icon. Could be too confusing. I'm betting if he didn't do the clones, there would be no set of ? boxes outside of the Random Button. Or it would be a different colored box.
Smash 4 didn't have that idea. It was going to have Ice Climbers back instead of the clones being added later. And even so, I think that the second to last row not matching up with the first set of rows looks weird to me. I would've moved Shulk to that empty space, but it's still fine either way. It's also possible more were planned. Wolf Flash and Lucas' B moves are used as Customs, so they could've been scrapped. BTW, does Lucario's variant Neutral B moves have anything similar to Shadow Ball's movement?(instead of straight, it goes in a weird animated pattern). If so, that means he could have been worked on. There's no player-like data for Mewtwo, so he may have never made it into the game. Sakurai did say 'we're considering it" effectively. Which does actually mean they never got him into the game itself. For whatever reason.

Lucario's Aura Sphere variants is just a slow, gravitating variant and fast, piercing variant. He didn't take Shadow Ball.
Mewtwo might have been planned, but he evidently did not get past planning because as you said there is no data for him in the game.
I guess they were truly not expecting to add him back? They planned him in Smash 64 and Brawl, but not Smash 4...what changed? It can't be time, there would be at least a little evidence of that. Either he was being held back for DLC/Wii U "wave" or he was never, ever planned to return. Either way, for the sake of the community I really would prefer he was/will be in.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

All whining aside, I do find it wierd how you can find duplicates of things like custom moves. Almost "bad design" kind of wierd. Does nothing but make the grind more annoying and a little too random. Guess it wouldnt be a Nintendo game without some bullcrap gametime lenghterer (and I say this as a guy who liked the WW Triforce Quest, though it was thanks to a mistake on my part)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Lucario's Aura Sphere variants is just a slow, gravitating variant and fast, piercing variant. He didn't take Shadow Ball.
Mewtwo might have been planned, but he evidently did not get past planning because as you said there is no data for him in the game.
I guess they were truly not expecting to add him back? They planned him in Smash 64 and Brawl, but not Smash 4...what changed? It can't be time, there would be at least a little evidence of that. Either he was being held back for DLC/Wii U "wave" or he was never, ever planned to return. Either way, for the sake of the community I really would prefer he was/will be in.

Well I guess they thought Mewtwo would not be relevant again

Even though he totally was

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Lucario's Aura Sphere variants is just a slow, gravitating variant and fast, piercing variant. He didn't take Shadow Ball.
Mewtwo might have been planned, but he evidently did not get past planning because as you said there is no data for him in the game.
I guess they were truly not expecting to add him back? They planned him in Smash 64 and Brawl, but not Smash 4...what changed? It can't be time, there would be at least a little evidence of that. Either he was being held back for DLC/Wii U "wave" or he was never, ever planned to return. Either way, for the sake of the community I really would prefer he was/will be in.

Gamefreak happened, maybe. I'd love him back(and no, I don't mind that he's low priority. People overstate his Smash importance a bit) because he's a fun addition. I will admit that despite what people say about Shadow Ball, it's not even that similar. His Jumping is more similar to Ness/Lucas than any other move to anybody. Also, Lucas has a lot of aerial elemental moves. I almost feel like some of Mewtwo is in his character design. Lucario to an extent, too.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Gamefreak happened, maybe. I'd love him back(and no, I don't mind that he's low priority. People overstate his Smash importance a bit) because he's a fun addition. I will admit that despite what people say about Shadow Ball, it's not even that similar. His Jumping is more similar to Ness/Lucas than any other move to anybody. Also, Lucas has a lot of aerial elemental moves. I almost feel like some of Mewtwo is in his character design. Lucario to an extent, too.

Why would gamefreak not think Mewtwo is important if they gave him 2 megas and a movie

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Why would gamefreak not think Mewtwo is important if they gave him 2 megas and a movie

Importance to Smash and Importance to Pokemon are two different things. Since Jigglypuff was in first, they might consider her more important to the Smash Bros. series.

He's obviously more important to Pokemon than he used to be, but he isn't even part of X/Y's story, unlike Lucario and Charizard. Greninja clearly was a thing Sakurai liked, as he said outright.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Well I guess they thought Mewtwo would not be relevant again

Even though he totally was

Sakurai wasn't able to port him from Melee. Is that simple.

 

[Kenith]

All I know is that the Wii U version of comes out on November 21st, and if we don't hear about Mewtwo by then, I think he's gone for good.
If he does show up, however, expect many 'I told you so''s to be enjoyed by myself and many others.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Sakurai wasn't able to port him from Melee. Is that simple.

If he was important, they would have made him from scratch

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Sakurai wasn't able to port him from Melee. Is that simple.

He did a great job porting Greninja from Melee tho ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Spoiler

Wasnt there some leftover code for Mewtwo in Brawl? Thats how Project M guys managed to get him in from what I understand. These guys make everything look so easy

 

[Vintage Creep]

If he was important, they would have made him from scratch

If he was important to Sakurai.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

He did a great job porting Greninja from Melee tho ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Spoiler

Wasnt there some leftover code for Mewtwo in Brawl? Thats how Project M guys managed to get him in from what I understand. These guys make everything look so easy

Joking aside, the Project M people had enough time and aren't controlled by GameFreak in any way. So it was easier on them.

 

[Themandme]

Just beat master core on 8.0 for the first time

 

[dimensionsword64]

All whining aside, I do find it wierd how you can find duplicates of things like custom moves. Almost "bad design" kind of wierd. Does nothing but make the grind more annoying and a little too random. Guess it wouldnt be a Nintendo game without some bullcrap gametime lenghterer (and I say this as a guy who liked the WW Triforce Quest, though it was thanks to a mistake on my part)

The fact that you're having doubts about this being bad design is actually pretty funny.
(Not trying to be rude, it just seems like you're very forgiving of Nintendo)

 

[Kenith]

It just seems so illogical for GameFreak to do all of this:
- Tease Mega Evolutions by giving Mewtwo a new look (teasing it as both a new Pokemon and new form)
- Give him TWO Mega Evolutions
- Give him a starring role in a movie and feature him in the anime

Then go to Sakurai, the director of a game that will easily move millions of copies within weeks, where said Mewtwo is among the most wanted characters, and say, "No, no Mewtwo. Choose one of these characters nobody even knows about and could very well end up extremely hated instead to promote x/y (which also features Mewtwo)".

It just seems so...backwards. Part of me wants to say that a money-loving corporation would never turn down Mewtwo, hence Sakurai deliberately omitted Mewtwo, the other part of me wants to say that GameFreak kept Sakurai from choosing Mewtwo because Sakurai is too smart and sensitive to the fanbase both to do that.

 

[Frostwraith]

People who complain about grinding on this game should go and play some hardcore JRPG or whatever. That is where you will find serious grinding.