Smash 4 Social Thread 3.0

[Frostwraith]

Is it just me, or are strong, electric attacks the most satisfying attacks in Smash bros?
Electroshock, thunder, Dr Mario side smash, Levin sword, thoron, etc.

It's all about the...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In Brawl, Waluigi was labelled as a Mario character. Perhaps, he made an exception so Wario and Waluigi could be placed on the same category?

As for Dark Pit's lack of a newcomer label, I'd wait for Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt Duo before jumping to conclusions.

That's my point. His logic may seem very unique.

And nah, not jumping to conclusions. Although that's my only current explanation. That's a possibility too. Also, do I have to beat the game with all Alts to unlock their trophy, or is every Alt available in the Shop too?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Lol, when I get all of Pit's custom moves I'll make Pink Pit "Light Pit" and the Dark Pit looking one on Pit "Semi-Dark Pit." The White Dark Pit "Semi-Light Pit".

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

Lol, when I get all of Pit's custom moves I'll make Pink Pit "Light Pit" and the Dark Pit looking one on Pit "Semi-Daem Pit." The White Dark Pit "Semi-Light Pit".

Stay in school kids.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Stay in school kids.

What? My autospell screwed up.

 

[Frostwraith]

What? My autospell screwed up.

How about turning it off?

I never have that crap on for obvious reasons. And I'm not even a native English speaker.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How about turning it off?

I never have that crap on for obvious reasons. And I'm not even a native English speaker.

You're clearly a native Pit speaker.

 

[Bedoop]

*yawns*
Good morning, Smashboards... what did i-

WHY DID NOONE TAG ME ABOUT THIS!?​

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!​

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

How about turning it off?

I never have that crap on for obvious reasons. And I'm not even a native English speaker.

I like it. It allows me to type things faster like my catchphrase (not going to say it so @ Bedoop can't make @legendofrob1 mad).

 

[FlareHabanero]

I could have bought that they used popularity polls for Brawl, but not this installment, only Mega Man and Little Mac were amongst the most popular choices on online polls, everyone else were trotting along in the middle (Palutena, Shulk) or were bottom of the barrel picks (Rosalina, Duck Hunt Dog.)

Popularity probably refers more so to a general demographic, not specifically to the Super Smash Bros. fanbase. Like including characters to interest new players to the series. For example Rosalina was not popular with fans of Super Smash Bros., but is still regardless a character with a fanbase and the higher ups at Nintendo acknowledges this as seen with her now main cast staple status.

Though, admittedly there are still some unanswered holes to this. Like for example, Mewtwo having more going for it this time around but is still ignored (arguably more ignored this time), and picking characters that have been Base Breakers or (worse) Scrappies, most notably Duck Hunt in this case.

 

[Aurane]

ROB is a cheater.

He jumped off me into a ditch on that race mode.

Little *****. T3T

 

[RamOne]

@ Jason the Yoshi
Genuine question, when do you sleep? I was here 11 hours ago when it was 4:00 AM and now it's almost 11 hours later and you're still here.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

@ Jason the Yoshi
Genuine question, when do you sleep? I was here 11 hours ago when it was 4:00 AM and now it's almost 11 hours later and you're still here.

He doesn't sleep. He just sits there.



Watching.

 

[FalKoopa]

@ Jason the Yoshi
Genuine question, when do you sleep? I was here 11 hours ago when it was 4:00 AM and now it's almost 11 hours later and you're still here.

He's a ghost. He jumped off a cliff after all.

 

[Frostwraith]

Popularity probably refers more so to a general demographic, not specifically to the Super Smash Bros. fanbase. Like including characters to interest new players to the series. For example Rosalina was not popular with fans of Super Smash Bros., but is still regardless a character with a fanbase and the higher ups at Nintendo acknowledges this as seen with her now main cast staple status.

Though, admittedly there are still some unanswered holes to this. Like for example, Mewtwo having more going for it this time around but is still ignored (arguably more ignored this time), and picking characters that have been Base Breakers or (worse) Scrappies, most notably Duck Hunt in this case.

In other words, some of the "highly requested, highly popular" characters may actually be not that requested or popular, but just have a very loud minority that creates an illusion of otherwise.

The fanbase that frequents this sort of forums is a minority compared to the entire public that buys the games.

 

[Bedoop]

I like it. It allows me to type things faster like my catchphrase (not going to say it so @ Bedoop can't make @legendofrob1 mad).

Ohhi

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

In other words, some of the "highly requested, highly popular" characters may actually be not that requested or popular, but just have a very loud minority that creates an illusion of otherwise.

The fanbase that frequents this sort of forums is a minority compared to the entire public that buys the games.

So, if Ridley's fanbase is small. Ridley is small. But if he's small, his fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game. If Ridley is small. His fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game. If Ridley is small. His fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game. If Ridley is small. His fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game.

Paradox?

 

[Frostwraith]

Even Wolf's exclusion makes sense from Sakurai's logic: Star Fox U is currently early in its development, it may not have been even in consideration when Sakurai decided the roster.

So, back when Sakurai decided the roster, Star Fox was a dead series with no prospect for the future, hence given less priority, hence Wolf was cut. Falco got prioritized given he's more popular and likely also due to seniority (Melee veteran as opposed to Brawl veteran).

Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus are now active series with new and successful games released on a current generation system and notably popular in Japan. Both Awakening and Uprising were advertised heavily by Nintendo when they were released. Remind that both are 2012 games, same year when Sakurai started development in Smash.

If DLC is a thing and if the characters considered for it are based on current trends, we may see Wolf returning thanks to Star Fox U.

Lucas being cut is due to the series being dead. Ness took priority based on popularity and seniority. As for Snake, his third party status makes him a distinct situation. Negotiation and business are a complicated matter, putting it shortly and modestly.

 

[FlareHabanero]

In other words, some of the "highly requested, highly popular" characters may actually be not that requested or popular, but just have a very loud minority that creates an illusion of otherwise.

The fanbase that frequents this sort of forums is a minority compared to the entire public that buys the games.

It depends. There are obviously characters that the Smash fanbase does request and recieve, like Shulk, Little Mac, and Mega Man this time around. On the other hand there are characters trying to appeal outside of that specific demographic, like Rosalina, Villager, and Wii Fit Trainer.

It's not too alien of a concept since past games try to appeal to as many people as possible, the difference being that the two sides were more blurred together in past titles.

 

[FalKoopa]

That interview clashes a bit with one of the previous interviews where he stated that cuts are painful for fans. It doesn't (fully) explain Dark Pit either. Sakurai himself said that he had no plans for a sequel to Uprising.

More accurately, it suffices to say that we cannot comprehend the true form of Sakurai's methods.

 

[Naoshi]

Even Wolf's exclusion makes sense from Sakurai's logic: Star Fox U is currently early in its development, it may not have been even in consideration when Sakurai decided the roster.

So, back when Sakurai decided the roster, Star Fox was a dead series with no prospect for the future, hence given less priority, hence Wolf was cut. Falco got prioritized given he's more popular and likely also due to seniority (Melee veteran as opposed to Brawl veteran).

Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus are now active series with new and successful games released on a current generation system and notably popular in Japan. Both Awakening and Uprising were advertised heavily by Nintendo when they were released. Remind that both are 2012 games, same year when Sakurai started development in Smash.

If DLC is a thing and if the characters considered for it are based on current trends, we may see Wolf returning thanks to Star Fox U.

Lucas being cut is due to the series being dead. Ness took priority based on popularity and seniority. As for Snake, his third party status makes him a distinct situation. Negotiation and business are a complicated matter, putting it shortly and modestly.

This makes a whole lot of sense. Star Fox 64 3D didn't even catch fire in sells and neither has Star Fox Command. So it makes a lot of sense that the Star Fox franchise are in much lower priority. With Brawl, Assault was likely the most relevent Star Fox game (and probably sold much better than the later entries) so there was definitely some higher priority back then compared to now. I wish I knew the exact sales data and I seriously don't trust VGChartz. I'll do some research later.

 

[Frostwraith]

I'd say that Lucina and Dark Pit may not be popular with the Smash fanbase overall, given their clone status, but like @ FlareHabanero stated, they are part of the characters that appeal to the audience outside of the more hardcore Smash fanbase. They had the advantage of being similar to existing characters, so the resources that went on their production weren't much to affect the grand scheme of things.

Dr. Mario, on the other hand, also has its niche within the Smash fanbase, given he's essentially pre-Brawl Mario with tweaks. Of course, Dr. Mario is a notable franchise and has its popularity outside of the Smash fanbase.

If you think carefully about things, the roster makes a lot of sense.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The statements regarding to being unique or no dice does make me question the design of Dark Pit however. To an extent Lucina and Doc, but they do have their playstyle differences.

 

[allison]

So, if Ridley's fanbase is small. Ridley is small. But if he's small, his fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game. If Ridley is small. His fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game. If Ridley is small. His fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game. If Ridley is small. His fans wouldn't be happy. If he's big the majority would complain. If a majority complained they would shrink him in the next game.

Paradox?

I'm a Ridley fan. If he's small, I won't complain.

As for Dark Pit's lack of a newcomer label, I'd wait for Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt Duo before jumping to conclusions.

The site seems to have been restructured. No one has a newcomer label anymore:

 

[Muster]

Lucas being cut is due to the series being dead.

The Mother series isn't dead, it's Finished. The tale has been told, and the story is over. That is a distinct difference from lack of games due to poor popularity like star fox has had. I think other factors such as custom moves and Mother 3's lack of an american release are more what played into Lucas getting the boot.

 

[Knight Dude]

Still talking about that Sakurai interview? I wish I could offer something to the discussion that hasn't already been said. Honestly, I'm not really sure if there's all that much of a need to talk about rosters and characters in Smash 4 at this point. Unless there's DLC or something but I don't think Sakurai is the type of guy to do that.

I can understand why some people don't like the Clones. This happens with a lot of fighters, Street Fighter comes to mind with the likes of Evil Ryu and Decapre getting a lot of flack when they were first shown off.

Outside of Smash, I'm pretty damn sure that at least Lucina was popular as hell. So she has an outside appeal from just the Smash series fanbase.

Dr. Mario is basically Melee Mario, so that's bound to win over plenty of people who didn't like FLUDD.

 

[Miffa]

The statements regarding to being unique or no dice does make me question the design of Dark Pit however. To an extent Lucina and Doc, but they do have their playstyle differences.

I'm guessing the unique part does not come in to play when he is at the end of development and only has time for a lone or 2.

 

[RamOne]

I'm a Ridley fan. If he's small, I won't complain.

The site seems to have been restructured. No one has a newcomer label anymore:

Interesting. They are even in their Smash-order. Interesting to note Charizard took Pokémon Trainer's spot. And Sonic got moved, but that makes sense because of his third-party status.

I think the decision to add Dark Pit has to do with Sakurai wanting to add one final clone and DP being popular in Japan.

 

[Frostwraith]

The statements regarding to being unique or no dice does make me question the design of Dark Pit however. To an extent Lucina and Doc, but they do have their playstyle differences.

I believe Sakurai stated that clones (or as he calls, "alternate versions of characters") are exempt from the uniqueness factor, given they weren't planned in the first place.

In this interview Sakurai explains the process of the roster's planning, as in, before the game even starts being developed. How characters are picked before starting developed, considering several factors like popularity, series' state and so on, as well as time constraints.

The time factor is (not so) arguably the most important factor here.

That interview clashes a bit with one of the previous interviews where he stated that cuts are painful for fans. It doesn't (fully) explain Dark Pit either. Sakurai himself said that he had no plans for a sequel to Uprising.

More accurately, it suffices to say that we cannot comprehend the true form of Sakurai's methods.

They aren't alien as people make them out to be.

You just have to think from a different perspective. From a game designer perspective, considering all factors that go on development.

Pretty sure that if Sakurai was able to do so, he would have made all veterans return. It's all a matter of time and priority.

The thing is that people fail to see things from his professional perspective that sometimes clashes with what this fanbase (a minority compared to the entire audience intended) wants.

Read my previous posts, because I've elaborated on this further.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

@ Jason the Yoshi
Genuine question, when do you sleep? I was here 11 hours ago when it was 4:00 AM and now it's almost 11 hours later and you're still here.

That's because there's a seven hour time difference between Minnesota and The Netherlands. 4:00 AM in the Netherlands is like 9:00 PM yesterday in Minnesota. I also have a severe case of insomnia, so I tend to lurk a bit past 9:30, which is when I usually go to bed on school nights.

 

[Miffa]

To go off topic for anyone interested and in Europe or Aus there is now a bayonetta 2 demo available on the e-shop.

 

[Bedoop]

New Icon. Made it m'self. :3

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

View attachment 27086 New Icon. Made it m'self. :3

0/10 no FLUDD

 

[Space Stranger]

View attachment 27086 New Icon. Made it m'self. :3

Cool. Red Luigi is looking professional today.

 

[FalKoopa]

10/10 no FLUDD

Fixed.

 

[DraginHikari]

It's interesting to see the hidden characters on the Wii U version because even if we know who they are already they always seem very different with the HD coat of paint.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I believe Sakurai stated that clones (or as he calls, "alternate versions of characters") are exempt from the uniqueness factor, given they weren't planned in the first place.

In this interview Sakurai explains the process of the roster's planning, as in, before the game even starts being developed. How characters are picked before starting developed, considering several factors like popularity, series' state and so on, as well as time constraints.

The time factor is (not so) arguably the most important factor here.

I get the technicalities as to why clones are made, but at the same time you do have to start questioning if this is a double standard or a case of bad wording. For the former you can claim it is a double standard that the characters must be unique or no deal, unless we need quick filler. For the latter the wording might be better recieved if they mentioned "being planned" and clarifying that some characters were included due to spare time, instead of simply stating "we include characters that would be fun and unique and nyargleblargle"

Also I mentioned Dark Pit specifically because he's probably one the most extreme case of a clone character I've seen yet, and I question why they didn't at least make him feel like a genuine alternative like Doc or Lucina.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

It's interesting to see the hidden characters on the Wii U version because even if we know who they are already they always seem very different with the HD coat of paint.

Yeah in the Wii U one I can now differentiate Pit and Dark Pit.


Thanks Sakurai!

 

[Frostwraith]

I get the technicalities as to why clones are made, but at the same time you do have to start questioning if this is a double standard or a case of bad wording. For the former you can claim it is a double standard that the characters must be unique or no deal, unless we need quick filler. For the latter the wording might be better recieved if they mentioned "being planned" and clarifying that some characters were included due to spare time, instead of simply stating "we include characters that would be fun and unique and nyargleblargle"

Also keep in mind that these interviews are translated from Japanese. Some meaning may be lost in translation.

From what I know of the Japanese language, it is that it's quite tricky when it comes to implied subjects, requiring extra attention to the message's context.

As for Dark Pit, they may have had not enough time to tinker with him a little more without disrupting the game's balance. Lucina's change isn't that big either, but the nature of it has different and more distinct consequences on her gameplay style.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Did @Fastblade5035 change his avatar because he couldn't play the violin?