smacked by the nerf bat.

[Buddha]

i know i'm just speculating, but it looks like ICs were hit hard with the nerf bat for brawl. not sure if everyone's heard but it looks like WD has been semi-officially cut out in brawl. "wave-stuff" might still be there, but WD as we know it is pretty much gone. so can u imagine just dashing everywhere and running around with no WD? ICs arent really the king and queen of speed and agility, so removing WD would make them significantly slower and immobile. unless of course their speed, dashing, and DD are sped up in brawl but who knows.

discuss.

 

[Lixivium]

Yeah, I've had problems with Ness's bat too. It has a surprisingly long duration and range, just enough to cut off wavesmash approaches. It's not easy to punish out of the shield either, so I usually just have to beat him to the punch with jabs or something...

...oh.

Well I'll reserve judgment until I see how the developers deal with airdodging close to the ground.

 

[CoM_Sreenath]

qq noob, now your character is slow and you cannot cheat...

i dont need to wd with link, who is slower than IC. and lower on the tier list.

 

[pockyD]

why speculate?

just wait for it to get here

 

[PeeP]

I'm sure nintendo will manage to find a way to equalize ice climbers.....................or we could just bribe them

Hmmmm lets just go with option 2 whos got money?

 

[Jammer]

ICs arent really the king and queen of speed and agility

discuss.

I had no idea the Ice Climbers were male and female. I always thought they were both female. "Nana" and "Popo" seem feminine to me, but I should have realized Popo was a guy, I guess.

Anyway, I think it's probably a bit too early to talk about characters' strengths and what tier they'll be in. The Ice Climbers may stay low tier; they may become top tier. Who knows? All the characters have been changed and tweaked for Brawl.

 

[Bailey]

qq noob, now your character is slow and you cannot cheat...

i dont need to wd with link, who is slower than IC. and lower on the tier list.

Um you can't reallt say noob when you don't Wave dash.

 

[Pookiez]

I can say irony!

 

[N1c2k3]

I agree. I was hit hard when I realized about an hr later after I heard the news, about them. You're right, unless they significantly increase they're running speed or grab range, I think we might as well say RIP to our chilly friends. I'm extremely heavied at the heart. We can only hope there's a silver lining and something unexpected pulls through, but I'm not getting my hopes up....

 

[choknater]

why not? are you saying you won't play them because they aren't as good?

no matter how weak or strong they are, i will love the ice climbers.

 

[Binx]

Besides without L canceling shield grabbing will become much easier, and ICs still have the same anti grab tactic of smash attacking you every time you try, so I think that they might be potentially better than in melee (in comparison to other cast members), time will tell.

 

[Pookiez]

Ugh, the reason there is no L cancel is because it is not needed... so shield grabbing should be the same when playing pros but oddly harder when playing noobs. Especially w/o WD out of shield into a jab/grab when the move gives you shield knock back... I don't know I don't want to speculate too much because most things i can visualize are just disappointing. I really hope they are still easily desyncable. And hopefully they improved Nana's AI. for all we know Sakurai migh have implemented a way to send Nana in w/o actually having to forcefully desync. Anyways, I think I'll still play them. they might be desyncable through what is being called and "ink drop".

 

[Buddha]

Ugh, the reason there is no L cancel is because it is not needed... so shield grabbing should be the same when playing pros but oddly harder when playing noobs. Especially w/o WD out of shield into a jab/grab when the move gives you shield knock back... I don't know I don't want to speculate too much because most things i can visualize are just disappointing. I really hope they are still easily desyncable. And hopefully they improved Nana's AI. for all we know Sakurai migh have implemented a way to send Nana in w/o actually having to forcefully desync. Anyways, I think I'll still play them. they might be desyncable through what is being called and "ink drop".

i understand l-canceling is on its way out as well, but what do u mean its not needed? so there is no lag at all after aerials? i find that hard to believe since missile canceling is apparently out too (also means other B moves do not auto-cancel from landing= no SHL). and wtf is the ink drop?

 

[Pookiez]

I got all that info from Gimpyfish's review of the game in the brawl discussion. They are playing the demo at E for all atm. ink drop is supposed to be when you run one way and turn around the character is supposed to fall (not during the dash dance part) the thing about it is that you are able to cancel the fall animation w/ anything so its almost as if you are pivoting a run at any point. what it sounds like to me is that it's going to be replaced the wavesmashes. The lag on all a areals has been highly reduced across the board. then again this is only a demo, so they might have reduced the lag on purpose to see how it plays like that.

 

[Smasher89]

no WD, let´s work more on desynch combos then, since the opponent wont be as fast to punish the climbers right?, but yea, I´m worried too, hopes that IC's wont get to bottom tier (Nana might be better to survive though, like forward b to the stage)

 

[Buddha]

who cares what character you play. desynchs are still in = grab combos + chains = automatic best grab game in brawl. with no WD, no lcancel, no missle cancel, no SHL, no shine (well at least not nearly as good as before), almost every character was gayed to oblivion and, honestly, ICs didnt turn out too bad. lets just hope sakurai sped them up a little and increased nana's AI or increased their grab range or gave us ****in something to look forward to. christ.

 

[dj asakura]

how bout we just wait and see? haha

for as much nerfing thats going around i'd like to believe that things are going to be a little closer tier wise. if you've read gimpy's updates this **** it tight as hell. so the IC's wont be melee IC clones, who cares? new **** means more to find which mean relearning which means more fun

 

[Duality]

I thought you were talking about being able to smack people with the nerf bat attachment for the Wiimote.

I don't mind if WD is out, it kind of adds flavor and removes spice.

 

[cemo]

I hope they have a better run now. ):

 

[Speedsk8er]

I'm kinda hit harder by the fact that there is no L-cancelling. I like desynch comboing from SHFFLs. >_<

 

[Kyu Puff]

It may just be for the demo, and anyways it seems that all characters' lag has been reduced. IC's already had it pretty good last game, so if lag has really been cut down that much it shouldn't affect them at all.

I really hope that you can still control Nana. Taking out desynching AND wavedashing is the ultimate nerf. Also, if desynching is still in, I wonder if the mechanics of rolling/spotdodging/taunting/grab desynchs were changed, because they didn't really make sense in Melee.

Edit - Lol, you meant SHFFL desynch. My bad.

 

[Speedsk8er]

I really hope that you can still control Nana. Taking out desynching AND wavedashing is the ultimate nerf. Also, if desynching is still in, I wonder if the mechanics of rolling/spotdodging/taunting/grab desynchs were changed, because they didn't really make sense in Melee..

Taking out desynching would honestly make me not play IC. I love that dynamic WAAAAAY too much. But seriously, desynchs were OBVIOUSLY intended by the developers. Why the hell else would the roll/dodge/taunt/ and grab desynchs work? I merely hope that there are alot more VIABLE desynchs instead of me trying to make un-viable desynchs work.

 

[Zjiin]

I really don't understand how you can say a individual character is nerfed due to a general technique getting the cut. Yeah, they will be slower, but so will everyone else. ICs were nice and slick with WD'ing in melee, but the WD didn't make them anywhere near the fastest. That being said, their greatest advantage hasn't been cut.

C'mon, it's not like they removed nana.

 

[Speedsk8er]

C'mon, it's not like they removed nana.

O_O DON'T TALK LIKE THAT!

LOL the worst thing they could possibly do is remove desynching and put friendly fire between the twins. LOL

Besides, I think if anyone is hurt the most by the lack of WD, it's Luigi-mains, Spacey mains, and Mewtwo mains.

 

[Vts]

Well from demoing a ton of games most online ones or ones where the people who send direct feedback to who ever is making ssbb they will change some things due to player feedback if they are given enough reason to, i played the h3 beta and then once playing h3 complete it was much different.
We will just have to wait 4 months....

-peace vts

 

[Pookiez]

I really don't understand how you can say a individual character is nerfed due to a general technique getting the cut. Yeah, they will be slower, but so will everyone else. ICs were nice and slick with WD'ing in melee, but the WD didn't make them anywhere near the fastest. That being said, their greatest advantage hasn't been cut.

C'mon, it's not like they removed nana.

Umm... They had the second best WD in the game and the best out of the high tier characters. It's what kept them at a decent speed compared to other characters.

 

[dj asakura]

buts its also a totally new game. we may find out that the IC's dont need wavedashing. and besides, they may come back with better grabs and stronger moves, who knows. but i do think that with this waveland thing (the momentum WD after air attacks) they may still be slidy and able to move quickly

 

[Buddha]

the only way this isn't a bad thing is if their running and aerial speed is increases substantially. WD was the only way ICs could keep up with fast characters like fox, CF, etc. and give them such great ground mobility. desynchs and a good grab game can only get you so far. hell, DK has a pretty good grab game, but he's painfully slow = hello low tier. and with characters like that fast son of ***** sonic in the game, im afraid ICs are going to be left in the mid-low tier dust.

 

[Zjiin]

All I'm saying is that yeah, WD dramatically helped ICs, and if i had to play a match without WD, i probably couldn't, but this is a different game. Grabbing and desynch is what made the ICs good, not their WD length.